Warlord and Magician CP being removed in Morrowind

ScooberSteve · March 2017

This is classic example of forums crybabies win again

Qbiken · March 2017

Are these changes absolut or just in the testing? I mean, some endgame players that´s been talking to the staff must have something to say about this? I know some players have good contact with some of the devsand I beg you to state that these changes are a terrible idea.

Jitterbug · March 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

Are these changes absolut or just in the testing? I mean, some endgame players that´s been talking to the staff must have something to say about this? I know some players have good contact with some of the devsand I beg you to state that these changes are a terrible idea.

It's not final. But experience tells me it'll probably stay.

roigseguib16_ESO · March 2017

In my humble opinion:

1. Games evolve. Sometimes we gain more damage, other times we need more sustain. Be always ready and willing to adjust your builds
2. In PvP, Heavy Armour should be powerful, but should have limitations. However, it should be noted that removing cost reduction AND nerfing regen CPs is not the way to go. This affects PvE and only makes people angry. Generally nerfing is a pad policy, balancing should aim to be done with careful changes, reasonable nerfs and moderate improvements. The least we have to radically modify our playstyle the better we will enjoy the game and Devs will receive better feedback.
3. Removing CP may seem appealing to those holding nostalgia for better times, pre 1.5, but every game needs a progression system that allows for a smooth evolution of their characters and Champion Points in my opinion allow for a big deal of build stats customization.
4. The addition of a "poison like" CP tree, with up to Y% resource punishment when doing X, its an unnecessary addition, it being available through poisons, allowing players to make the choice of use them or not. Without proper sustain, raids will prevail even more in Open World PvP, whilst small scale groups with less minor major buff dedicated players and with less capacity of approaching open combat will be very damaged.

How can this be solved? I don't know. I am not a professional game developer so I lack that knowledge in particular, but I would say that having two (and soon to be three) radically different playfields (PvE, open world PvP abd Battlegrounds) sharing one common skillset, champion point system and pull of gear choices makes it a nightmare to balance: when a class is OP in PvP, it gets nerfed and that affects PvE. When a class is weak in PvE, it gets buffed and destroys PvP. When proc sets become a problem in PvP, they get nerfed and that affects PvE end game players and so on and so forth.

mewcatus · March 2017

The 5 stages of grief:
1. Denial;
2. Anger;
3. Bargaining;
4. Depression;
5. Acceptance.

Just waiting for the rest to catch up to stage 5.

roigseguib16_ESO · March 2017

mewcatus wrote: »

The 5 stages of grief:
1. Denial;
2. Anger;
3. Bargaining;
4. Depression;
5. Acceptance.

Just waiting for the rest to catch up to stage 5.

No dark side?

[Deleted User] · March 2017

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Merlin13KAGL · March 2017

Biro123 wrote: »

Surely all that's needed to make up for the loss is, perhaps a new support class with unique group sustain abilities..
Could maybe use cold and nature based abilities and perhaps call it a 'warden'.?

@Biro123 There are already required roles, now you expect a required class, as well?

Clearly this won't work for those that don't have the DLC, and unless there is some very specifically tailored content, it shouldn't be required, but rather optional.

JinMori wrote: »

But many people seem to do not agree with you, this game at launch was considered ***, and now it's a pretty acclaimed mmorpg, the reason? people like it more this way really good marketing.

@JinMori , fixed it for you. It's this + so many of the shiny things that people were able to buy.

McDonalds sells billions & billions, but it's not because they make a bada** cheeseburger...

zaria wrote: »

In short it would be simple to see the power creep from cp50 to 600.
You compensate by making harder content.
Again an power creep is required in PvE.

And this can backlash very hard, then all the causal players has done the Morrowind quests and start running dungeons again, and find they can not do the stuff they did earlier, even after compensating they will not be happy.

Sounds much like:

the difference between scaled level <49's and that first step into zero CP vet ranks
the difference between 99% of the overland content vs 4 man
the difference between normal anything and vet anything

Result might be good as ZoS will replace promote the team responsible.

Jitterbug wrote: »

It's not final. But experience tells me it'll probably stay.

Sadly, this is probably true.
It's always been easier for them to tell everyone to drive to the store in reverse, rather than turn the damn car engine back around the right way.

roigseguib16_ESO wrote: »

In my humble opinion:
1. Games evolve. Sometimes we gain more damage, other times we need more sustain. Be always ready and willing to adjust your builds.

Games change. Games should evolve, but ZoS has never been about evolution. It's always been the quickest knee-jerk 'fix' to the issue at hand (or whatever the guy who brought in the doughnuts decided was an awesome idea). Most of the 'evolution' of the game in its current state is the result of a bandaid on a bandaid on a field dressing on a tourniquet.

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

mewcatus wrote: »

The 5 stages of grief:
1. Denial;
2. Anger;
3. Bargaining;
4. Depression;
5. Acceptance.

Just waiting for the rest to catch up to stage 5.

You've watched too much House.

@PelinalWhitestrake , you're in Stage one. There is no such thing as too much House.

Doctordarkspawn · March 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

Are these changes absolut or just in the testing? I mean, some endgame players that´s been talking to the staff must have something to say about this? I know some players have good contact with some of the devsand I beg you to state that these changes are a terrible idea.

For the moment, it looks like 'just in testing'.

The problem with said 'testing' is this is likely based off Streamer feedback. Streamers are notorious for being above the adverage skill level of most players, and are thus, not the best testing audience.

Dantaria · March 2017

I'm honestly confused by those who say that those CP are OP, hooray to the change. Like... have you ever run endgame content?

Go to YouTube and watch vMoL HM Rakkaht. Without Magician it would be... I don't even know. Praying, swearing and making it 1 sec before the wipe in the best case scenario?

Or screw it. Vet Skoria, anyone? The last boss in City of Ash II? Enjoy swiming in lava, praying and swearing. Wipefest, great.

On its own this change is disastrous. Unless there are some other changes, like nerfing bosses or reducing base cost of abilities or making basic regen higher... Yep. Screwed.

Wrubius_Coronaria · March 2017

Do you remember what they said in patchnote when they added Minor Magickasteal with homstead?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3765305/#Comment_3765305

Buffs & Debuffs

Created a new debuff category, Minor Magickasteal. This is a debuff applied to enemies that restores a flat value of Magicka to the attacker every second (400 Magicka every second at CP160).

Developer Comment

Spoiler

This change is aimed at getting players to pay more attention to their resource pools and use abilities in more strategic way. This is the first fix for high-level players having a lot of resources, and we’ll continue to evaluate this issue.

I wonder why developpers are considering this as a issue and want to reduce more the difference between skilled players and beginners. In my opinion a nerf was to expect when we see the direction of the game is taking patch after patch. (less skilled gameplay needed and make things more easy for news players).

Izaki · March 2017

Alcast wrote: »

Before Champ Points were introduced to the game, people played without Champion points. And they did just as fine as they did now, what a surprise.

What about the cost increase? The more CP you have spent, the higher the ability costs. That wasn't there either before CP was introduced.

Doctordarkspawn · March 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Before Champ Points were introduced to the game, people played without Champion points. And they did just as fine as they did now, what a surprise.

What about the cost increase? The more CP you have spent, the higher the ability costs. That wasn't there either before CP was introduced.

This, combined with all the other changes. Before Champ points were introduced, armor passives, regen, and costs were balanced around the basic cost.

If I recall, even the metric was different. Didn't Regen go up to like, 100 a second or something?

I just dont get why people are trying to sweep this under the rug. Dosent even make sense to. Their litterally taking a pickaxe to one of the few foundations they actually implimented for....what? PVP? Come on, people.

STEVIL · March 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

I'm honestly confused by those who say that those CP are OP, hooray to the change. Like... have you ever run endgame content?

Go to YouTube and watch vMoL HM Rakkaht. Without Magician it would be... I don't even know. Praying, swearing and making it 1 sec before the wipe in the best case scenario?

Or screw it. Vet Skoria, anyone? The last boss in City of Ash II? Enjoy swiming in lava, praying and swearing. Wipefest, great.

On its own this change is disastrous. Unless there are some other changes, like nerfing bosses or reducing base cost of abilities or making basic regen higher... Yep. Screwed.

"Unless there are some other changes..."

I will go out on a limb and say that i am certain the patch notes will not consist of these champion tree changes and that I am certain other changes will be made when Morrowind comes.

i know, its risky, but... hey, a man's gotta live dangerously once in a while.

bunnydaisuki · March 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Are these changes absolut or just in the testing? I mean, some endgame players that´s been talking to the staff must have something to say about this? I know some players have good contact with some of the devsand I beg you to state that these changes are a terrible idea.

For the moment, it looks like 'just in testing'.

The problem with said 'testing' is this is likely based off Streamer feedback. Streamers are notorious for being above the adverage skill level of most players, and are thus, not the best testing audience.

From the point of view of a developer, the best way to get opinion andf feedback from majority of the players is via PTS. Then again, they don't really change anything major after implementing in PTS, so yea... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

IwakuraLain42 · March 2017

bunnydaisuki wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Are these changes absolut or just in the testing? I mean, some endgame players that´s been talking to the staff must have something to say about this? I know some players have good contact with some of the devsand I beg you to state that these changes are a terrible idea.

For the moment, it looks like 'just in testing'.

The problem with said 'testing' is this is likely based off Streamer feedback. Streamers are notorious for being above the adverage skill level of most players, and are thus, not the best testing audience.

From the point of view of a developer, the best way to get opinion andf feedback from majority of the players is via PTS. Then again, they don't really change anything major after implementing in PTS, so yea... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

PTS is not the best way to evaluate these changes. Even if you ignore that only PC players can use the PTS I'm pretty sure that only a very, very tiny minority of the player base is using it. Presenting/testing on a show is actually not a bad way to test it, but from what I've read they were only testing the Battlegrounds at PAX.

Doctordarkspawn · March 2017

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

bunnydaisuki wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Are these changes absolut or just in the testing? I mean, some endgame players that´s been talking to the staff must have something to say about this? I know some players have good contact with some of the devsand I beg you to state that these changes are a terrible idea.

For the moment, it looks like 'just in testing'.

The problem with said 'testing' is this is likely based off Streamer feedback. Streamers are notorious for being above the adverage skill level of most players, and are thus, not the best testing audience.

From the point of view of a developer, the best way to get opinion andf feedback from majority of the players is via PTS. Then again, they don't really change anything major after implementing in PTS, so yea... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

PTS is not the best way to evaluate these changes. Even if you ignore that only PC players can use the PTS I'm pretty sure that only a very, very tiny minority of the player base is using it. Presenting/testing on a show is actually not a bad way to test it, but from what I've read they were only testing the Battlegrounds at PAX.

Which brings me to the hope that these changes will -only- effect battlegrounds and PVP, but I doubt it.

[Deleted User] · March 2017

The user and all related content has been deleted.

bowmanz607 · March 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Omg we can't sustain in heavy any more awwwww the sky is falling!!!!!!! Get a grip people.

Also, stop acting like you all ready entitled to a response just because a thread goes for a little while. They owe you no response. They are still working their own stiff out.

God such a sense of entitlement.

Classic person attempting to shut down the discussion for the sheer sake that they dont like the discussion.

@bowmanz607 Dont come here if you dont like it. We wont stop.

PS: No one is talking about Heavy armor alone. These changes, combined with current costs will mean it will be near impossible to sustain yourself without regular potions unless they lower costs or buff armor passives. You walked in here with preconcieved notions and didn't bother to read. Leave. No one needs an ill informed *** making a mess of things here.

Except not true at all. That was not my only post. I also posted that I was happy about the change and why. This post you quoted was my second and was targeted at people yelling about sustain. Sustain is not an issue really at all in this game. Resources is the least of anyone's worries. You run full Dagens sets with damage glyphs with heavy because of CP cost reduction.

And no, it simply means adjusting your build around a bit. Sustain is not going to disappear because of this it aimply.makes you think about your resource managment. Something this game has been missing for some time.

bowmanz607 · March 2017

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Conduit0 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

It was caused by zos over buffing heavy and it still remains because they refuse to accept they did and won't go back on themselves to fix it.

No, the heavy armor meta was created by ZOS balancing pvp around burst damage and the best counter to burst damage is heavy armor. This meta is made worse by the fact that light and medium armor are basically useless in pvp because they offer insufficient benefits to justify their lack of defense.

No amount of nerfing heavy armor will fix this.

No, the heavy armour meta was created by people asking for heavy armour buffs for ages because it was a bit lack-lustre. Zos promised to buff it in a feedback thread, or eso live or something, and then went ahead and buffed it in the DB patch. The patch notes can be found here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2909628/#Comment_2909628

Here are the specific heavy armour buffs copied and pasted, note the constitution passives got a 275% buff:

Heavy Armor

Bracing:
Renamed this passive ability to Wrath.
Redesigned this passive ability so it now increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 10/20 for 6 seconds after taking damage at Ranks I/II respectively, stacking up to 10 times.

Constitution: Increased the amount of Magicka and Stamina restored from this passive ability whenever you are hit by approximately 275%.

Juggernaut: Increased the amount of maximum health this passive grants per piece of Heavy Armor to 1/2% at Ranks I/II from 0.5/1%.

Rapid Mending:
This passive ability no longer increments its bonuses with each piece of Heavy Armor, and now requires 5 pieces or more of Heavy Armor to be worn.
Increased the healing taken bonus to 4/8%
This ability now increases the amount of resources your Heavy Attacks restore by 25/50% at Ranks I/II.

The design team have a liking for the berserker play style and have chosen heavy armour as the platform for it.

Yes but if you noticed in no cp if your running full heavy you can't sustain as well without cp. It makes you choose armor over sustain and/or forces the player to run more sustain sets which decreases the damage. Cp is what puts heavy over the top

bowmanz607 · March 2017

Vahrokh wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Omg we can't sustain in heavy any more awwwww the sky is falling!!!!!!! Get a grip people.

Also, stop acting like you all ready entitled to a response just because a thread goes for a little while. They owe you no response. They are still working their own stiff out.

God such a sense of entitlement.

We don't owe ZOS any money too.

I hate reminding you the obvious, who needs money to keep going is them, not us.

Yah because some forum warriors rage quitting hurts their pockets.

"Some forum warriors" represented so many players, they forced a giant publisher like EA to spend millions to convert their MMO from sub based to F2P + optional sub.

"Some forum warriors" represented so many players, they forced billionaire publisher ZOS to spend millions to convert ESO from sub only to F2P + optional sub.

The secret recipe, for the companies, is to discern between "forum warriors". Some represent just themselves, some (unknowingly) represent thousands of players who share their issue.

An across the spectrum huge nerf is easily going to be seen as issue by a large player base.

Let's get this straight forums warriors did not change the subject model. That was because it went to console and the problem that ZOS saw with forcing subs to people that already paid subs just to get online on their respective platforms.

Forum people do not make up a huge amount of the player base. They don't even make up the majority of the player base that ZOS looks. The forum people are just a small representation of the people in game.

Additionally, rich has said if they make 50% of people happy they are fine with that cause you will never please everyone. This was said during the no recovery while blocking patch.

OtarTheMad · March 2017

Vahrokh wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I assume that the information shared was obtained from Pax East convention and so I am definitely holding my judgment until Morrowind hits PTS. Usually at these conventions ZOS and, I assume, other companies experiment with ideas to see how well/badly they go over. It's easy testing because you know at least some will play your game and most will provide feedback.

IF this does hit PTS then it will be interesting to say the least. I don't get why they keep messing with things that don't need to be messed with and it just goes to show that PvE will always be affected by PvP and vice versa. I don't know how they can separate they the two. Maybe ZOS can come up with two different CP systems?

IF this goes in PTS like this and they keep doing things like this the game will never be balanced, or at least as close as it could be. Truthfully the game will never be 100% balanced but it definitely could be closer but not when they keep drastically changing/nerfing things without addressing other current balancing issues first. It's like a teeter-totter that ZOS just keep over loading up one side at a time versus finding a healthy balance that let's it go back and forth on it's own.

20 years in MMO history, prove that IF you wait to react until they are on PTS, then you are BONED.

Well yes however some players over reacting when we know maybe 10% of the information isn't the way to go either. Expressing opinions is always good to do, for the better of the game but some condemning ZOS for actions they haven't even taken yet and without all information is not the path to take.

We don't know all the information yet. What if this was just for Pax East? Like some convention experiment. What if they reduced the cost of spells to compensate for the CP abilities being removed? Maybe they planned on looking at how much, on average, players put into these "stars" to reduce costs and plan on somehow making that still possible? They could do this by changing/buffing some current passives in armor lines to make up for the change, or they could just reduce the cost of all skills.

Is it annoying that ZOS hasn't commented on this yet? Absolutely but why beat them down about this "change" when we don't even have the full image yet?

bowmanz607 · March 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Omg we can't sustain in heavy any more awwwww the sky is falling!!!!!!! Get a grip people.

Also, stop acting like you all ready entitled to a response just because a thread goes for a little while. They owe you no response. They are still working their own stiff out.

God such a sense of entitlement.

Classic person attempting to shut down the discussion for the sheer sake that they dont like the discussion.

@bowmanz607 Dont come here if you dont like it. We wont stop.

PS: No one is talking about Heavy armor alone. These changes, combined with current costs will mean it will be near impossible to sustain yourself without regular potions unless they lower costs or buff armor passives. You walked in here with preconcieved notions and didn't bother to read. Leave. No one needs an ill informed *** making a mess of things here.

This is simply not true though. If this was the case then it would be near impossible for cp < 300 to sustain themselves. I didn't see people all over the forums saying "I'm cp 250 and I run out of resources constantly!" or anything even remotely like that.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most end game / trial level players constantly using potions for crit buffs etc anyway?

Most -trial- players are. Most -dungeon- players dont because even when they do it in trials the trial loot barely makes up the cost for the potions themselves.

Have you ever done DPS with below 300 CP? I have, several times on new characters to play around with, before I remembered I didn't put in CP. It was signifigantly harder, and with the hits to sustain allready? The resource drain mechanics? Resource gen was allready buggered with the current costs, now?

Something has to give. It does not matter whether or not it is the costs being reduced wholesale (Which I wouldn't mind as a balance) or cost reduction enchants geting buffed (Also something I wouldn't mind) but the cost has to be paid somewhere. I'm not opposed to a numbercrunch. I'm opposed to the slipshot, bandaid, not given enough thought solutions ZOS is notorious for by this point.

This has been the players biggest problem with this dev team. They shoehorn us into a particular build style, glass cannon builds that can barely sustain themselves, design the content around that, then slowly undermine our ability to do that. That's our problem. Now they've moved onto stage three and it threatenes to do more damage to the game as a whole then their willing to admit to themselves. They did it with Tanking, up through around the current patch. Now their moving onto DPS, and once their done crippling that, you -wont- be able to just not run tanks anymore. You wont be able to run anymore.

It stems from the fact ZOS has no -plan- for this game. No idea of where they want the balance to be. They've largely let the players balance the system then met quota's after the fact, it all reeks of a unorganized bumbling that the current dev team is known for. I've been with the game proper since Tamriel Unlimited. I have slowly seen the original teams work erroded, and then the consequences handled poorly. I have no doubt that if this game dies, it will be because of the incompitence of the current team, and I am under no illusions as to the damage they can cause to the system.

You know what I remember from the tanking change patch...
People yelling tanking will be ruined. Others saying it is a good change because you have to actually start ton use some strategy with a tank so l2p.

You know what happened, the patch dropped and what do you know, people learned to play. They figured out how to tank better and more efficiently.

Same thing here. More resource management rather than just a constant dump of skills while running bis damage sets, damage mundus, damage, glyphs etc. No thoughts given to sustain.

Flameheart · March 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

I'm honestly confused by those who say that those CP are OP, hooray to the change. Like... have you ever run endgame content?

Go to YouTube and watch vMoL HM Rakkaht. Without Magician it would be... I don't even know. Praying, swearing and making it 1 sec before the wipe in the best case scenario?

Or screw it. Vet Skoria, anyone? The last boss in City of Ash II? Enjoy swiming in lava, praying and swearing. Wipefest, great.

On its own this change is disastrous. Unless there are some other changes, like nerfing bosses or reducing base cost of abilities or making basic regen higher... Yep. Screwed.

I am in the same boat. I dislike the changes and I wonder how they intend to handle boss encounters with direct and indirect enrage limits (and ESO is full of them).

For PvE I can imagine such changes only if there will be a compensation.

Possible compensations:

- higher inherent base reg rate
- increasing the group player limit (1 tank, 1 healer, 3 DDs, analog for raids ?)
- downscaling of bosses and boss encounters

My personal feeling (compare it to that urging in your stomach shortly before you throw up) tells neither of those compensations are intended.

Any news about Star Citizen ?

Wreuntzylla · March 2017

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Omg we can't sustain in heavy any more awwwww the sky is falling!!!!!!! Get a grip people.

Also, stop acting like you all ready entitled to a response just because a thread goes for a little while. They owe you no response. They are still working their own stiff out.

God such a sense of entitlement.

Classic person attempting to shut down the discussion for the sheer sake that they dont like the discussion.

@bowmanz607 Dont come here if you dont like it. We wont stop.

PS: No one is talking about Heavy armor alone. These changes, combined with current costs will mean it will be near impossible to sustain yourself without regular potions unless they lower costs or buff armor passives. You walked in here with preconcieved notions and didn't bother to read. Leave. No one needs an ill informed *** making a mess of things here.

This is simply not true though. If this was the case then it would be near impossible for cp < 300 to sustain themselves. I didn't see people all over the forums saying "I'm cp 250 and I run out of resources constantly!" or anything even remotely like that.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most end game / trial level players constantly using potions for crit buffs etc anyway?

Most -trial- players are. Most -dungeon- players dont because even when they do it in trials the trial loot barely makes up the cost for the potions themselves.

Have you ever done DPS with below 300 CP? I have, several times on new characters to play around with, before I remembered I didn't put in CP. It was signifigantly harder, and with the hits to sustain allready? The resource drain mechanics? Resource gen was allready buggered with the current costs, now?

Something has to give. It does not matter whether or not it is the costs being reduced wholesale (Which I wouldn't mind as a balance) or cost reduction enchants geting buffed (Also something I wouldn't mind) but the cost has to be paid somewhere. I'm not opposed to a numbercrunch. I'm opposed to the slipshot, bandaid, not given enough thought solutions ZOS is notorious for by this point.

This has been the players biggest problem with this dev team. They shoehorn us into a particular build style, glass cannon builds that can barely sustain themselves, design the content around that, then slowly undermine our ability to do that. That's our problem. Now they've moved onto stage three and it threatenes to do more damage to the game as a whole then their willing to admit to themselves. They did it with Tanking, up through around the current patch. Now their moving onto DPS, and once their done crippling that, you -wont- be able to just not run tanks anymore. You wont be able to run anymore.

It stems from the fact ZOS has no -plan- for this game. No idea of where they want the balance to be. They've largely let the players balance the system then met quota's after the fact, it all reeks of a unorganized bumbling that the current dev team is known for. I've been with the game proper since Tamriel Unlimited. I have slowly seen the original teams work erroded, and then the consequences handled poorly. I have no doubt that if this game dies, it will be because of the incompitence of the current team, and I am under no illusions as to the damage they can cause to the system.

You know what I remember from the tanking change patch...
People yelling tanking will be ruined. Others saying it is a good change because you have to actually start ton use some strategy with a tank so l2p.

You know what happened, the patch dropped and what do you know, people learned to play. They figured out how to tank better and more efficiently.

Same thing here. More resource management rather than just a constant dump of skills while running bis damage sets, damage mundus, damage, glyphs etc. No thoughts given to sustain.

That may be true, but tanks are still complaining about the change in dungeons. Seeing as the ratio of any archetype to the dps archtype is passingly small, and this change will hit the entire population, the end result could be completely different.

Flameheart · March 2017

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Omg we can't sustain in heavy any more awwwww the sky is falling!!!!!!! Get a grip people.

Also, stop acting like you all ready entitled to a response just because a thread goes for a little while. They owe you no response. They are still working their own stiff out.

God such a sense of entitlement.

Classic person attempting to shut down the discussion for the sheer sake that they dont like the discussion.

@bowmanz607 Dont come here if you dont like it. We wont stop.

PS: No one is talking about Heavy armor alone. These changes, combined with current costs will mean it will be near impossible to sustain yourself without regular potions unless they lower costs or buff armor passives. You walked in here with preconcieved notions and didn't bother to read. Leave. No one needs an ill informed *** making a mess of things here.

This is simply not true though. If this was the case then it would be near impossible for cp < 300 to sustain themselves. I didn't see people all over the forums saying "I'm cp 250 and I run out of resources constantly!" or anything even remotely like that.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most end game / trial level players constantly using potions for crit buffs etc anyway?

Most -trial- players are. Most -dungeon- players dont because even when they do it in trials the trial loot barely makes up the cost for the potions themselves.

Have you ever done DPS with below 300 CP? I have, several times on new characters to play around with, before I remembered I didn't put in CP. It was signifigantly harder, and with the hits to sustain allready? The resource drain mechanics? Resource gen was allready buggered with the current costs, now?

Something has to give. It does not matter whether or not it is the costs being reduced wholesale (Which I wouldn't mind as a balance) or cost reduction enchants geting buffed (Also something I wouldn't mind) but the cost has to be paid somewhere. I'm not opposed to a numbercrunch. I'm opposed to the slipshot, bandaid, not given enough thought solutions ZOS is notorious for by this point.

This has been the players biggest problem with this dev team. They shoehorn us into a particular build style, glass cannon builds that can barely sustain themselves, design the content around that, then slowly undermine our ability to do that. That's our problem. Now they've moved onto stage three and it threatenes to do more damage to the game as a whole then their willing to admit to themselves. They did it with Tanking, up through around the current patch. Now their moving onto DPS, and once their done crippling that, you -wont- be able to just not run tanks anymore. You wont be able to run anymore.

It stems from the fact ZOS has no -plan- for this game. No idea of where they want the balance to be. They've largely let the players balance the system then met quota's after the fact, it all reeks of a unorganized bumbling that the current dev team is known for. I've been with the game proper since Tamriel Unlimited. I have slowly seen the original teams work erroded, and then the consequences handled poorly. I have no doubt that if this game dies, it will be because of the incompitence of the current team, and I am under no illusions as to the damage they can cause to the system.

You know what I remember from the tanking change patch...
People yelling tanking will be ruined. Others saying it is a good change because you have to actually start ton use some strategy with a tank so l2p.

You know what happened, the patch dropped and what do you know, people learned to play. They figured out how to tank better and more efficiently.

Same thing here. More resource management rather than just a constant dump of skills while running bis damage sets, damage mundus, damage, glyphs etc. No thoughts given to sustain.

That's partially true. I agree that people needed to use their brains to tank from now on and it made ressource management the main topic for tanks. In addition it made the good tank classes (DK followed by NB...because of their superior inherent ressource management) even better and the gap larger. We shouldn't forget such nifty little fixes like prismatic runes. The current tank meta is fully prismatic defence enchanted gear.

Frawr · March 2017

We have thousands of people running infinite resource builds with high burst damage.

These changes could force some of them to 'manage' resources.

If so, great!

Dreyloch · March 2017

Alcast wrote: »

Before Champ Points were introduced to the game, people played without Champion points. And they did just as fine as they did now, what a surprise.

How long till your NDA is up? Are you allowed to tell us that? So you can post a video and tell us what you really saw out there? I am trying to be optimistic about this, thinking there is way more to it with some balances we just don't know about yet.

Also, to comment on your post here. Sure we did play with no CP. But skills and abilities didn't cost 1/2 of what they do now, and regen was built into the mechanics of the game.We had a natural regen that was much higher. We had Stat pools that were much lower. There was no stop on stam regen while b locking....Many things have changed since then.

bowmanz607 · March 2017

Dreyloch wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Before Champ Points were introduced to the game, people played without Champion points. And they did just as fine as they did now, what a surprise.

How long till your NDA is up? Are you allowed to tell us that? So you can post a video and tell us what you really saw out there? I am trying to be optimistic about this, thinking there is way more to it with some balances we just don't know about yet.

Also, to comment on your post here. Sure we did play with no CP. But skills and abilities didn't cost 1/2 of what they do now, and regen was built into the mechanics of the game.We had a natural regen that was much higher. We had Stat pools that were much lower. There was no stop on stam regen while b locking....Many things have changed since then.

there was also soft caps to keep numbers down. whereas there are none now so it is much easier to inflate your numbers.

kalimar44 · March 2017

I've been playing MMOs since Ultima online 25 years ago, and devs just can't leave *** alone. They keep nerfing a game until you don't even recognize it anymore. I'm so dam tired of this.