Warlord and Magician CP being removed in Morrowind
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Youarc✭nothing is set in stone. but i dont believe we will get a huge nerf like this with nothing going on elsewhere to balance it out.
With all the drastic changes ZOS has made to the game I had nearly forgotten what Hope looked like. Thank you
A coward believes he will ever live
if he keep him safe from strife:
but old age leaves him not long in peace
though spears may spare his life.
-Havamal Stanza 162 -
Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭nothing is set in stone. but i dont believe we will get a huge nerf like this with nothing going on elsewhere to balance it out.
i also believe this change isn't coming with morrowind.
However, my thoughts? ZOS Really needs to stop changing fundamental mechanics like this so drastically. This is a big one on resource management even if it gets buffed elsewhere so the nerf is marginal. I still believe you guys need to stop changing things so heavily.
Yeh no ***. stop putting pvp balance in pve. How hard is that to accomplish?13 -
rhapsodious✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hi, I'm the person who took all these pictures. I didn't want them to be inflammatory so much as "huh, that changed, odd"... sorry Rich. ):
I didn't get the chance to compare skill costs between here and live, unfortunately, but I do not think ZOS employees are gleefully wringing their hands as they plot new ways to ruin your specs. It might end up that you're getting your recovery anyway through other changes, and the new Siphoner star might just be a PVP-oriented one like.. what is it, Ironclad? The one that gives crit res?
Don't make a huge judgment call off of a few pictures or pieces of the puzzle.10 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭adriant1978 wrote: »Already a thread going on about this in the Alliance War forum, but I think maybe it needs to be brought to the wider attention of PvE folks who don't visit there.
Screenshots from PAX East: https://imgur.com/a/KS9mP#rBB48CB (not mine)- Stamina and Magicka cost reduction CP apparently removed
- Mooncalf and Arcanist regen CP reduced to 15% maximum from 25% maximum
- Warlord changed to "Break Free" cost reduction
- Magician replaced by Siphoner, which reduces target's regen (health, magicka & stamina) when hit by light/heavy attacks
The bolded part basicly only hits medium and light armor builds, not heavy armor builds at all, cause heavy armor builds rely on resource returns through heavy armor constitution, racial passives or other ways to get resource returns.
No it hits all builds, if they remove cost reduction all my skills are going to be expensive as hell. 10% reduction in regen is going to be nothing to most builds.
Heavy has no cost reduction or passive regen spending 2.5K plus resources in heavy will not be beneficial especially with poisons, stop with the lunacyEdited by Anti_Virus on March 12, 2017 8:41PMPower Wealth And Influence.4 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭Punishing Regen builds for PvP is the wrong move. You want to force Regen builds. Regen builds mean less upfront burst damage. Longer fights more balanced PvP. It should not take a percentage of Regen off it should be a fixed amount. So that it is not punishing Regen to a higher extent the more you have.3 -
BRogueNZ✭✭✭✭✭meh. siphoner on top seems harsh. can't really comment further, this is probably less than half the story0
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Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭Jaeme Diam wrote: »Ridiculous change. If it goes live it'll be my last straw.
Yup. Lag, eso+ scam, more lag, *** balance change. If they wreck sustain in pve as hard as it looks I'm out.14 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »adriant1978 wrote: »Already a thread going on about this in the Alliance War forum, but I think maybe it needs to be brought to the wider attention of PvE folks who don't visit there.
Screenshots from PAX East: https://imgur.com/a/KS9mP#rBB48CB (not mine)- Stamina and Magicka cost reduction CP apparently removed
- Mooncalf and Arcanist regen CP reduced to 15% maximum from 25% maximum
- Warlord changed to "Break Free" cost reduction
- Magician replaced by Siphoner, which reduces target's regen (health, magicka & stamina) when hit by light/heavy attacks
The bolded part basicly only hits medium and light armor builds, not heavy armor builds at all, cause heavy armor builds rely on resource returns through heavy armor constitution, racial passives or other ways to get resource returns.
No it hits all builds, if they remove cost reduction all my skills are going to be expensive as hell. 10% reduction in regen is going to be nothing to most builds.
Heavy has no cost reduction or passive regen spend 2.5K plus resources in heavy will not be beneficial especially with poisons, stop with the lunacy
10% reduction in addition to the siohoner passives. So for PvP which is what he referring to, the more you stack into Regen the worst it becomes. And medium and light operate by stacking Regen not reduced cost outside of the champ tree that is.
Heavy builds will put some enchants on their jewelry and be fine more or less.3 -
BRogueNZ✭✭✭✭✭cpuScientist wrote: »This will now make Redguard an absolute MUST HAVE for stamina. Rip diversity
we have diversity now?11 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭cpuScientist wrote: »This will now make Redguard an absolute MUST HAVE for stamina. Rip diversity
Everyone will be running redguard, no one will run stam templar, mag dk and sorc sustain will be trash, So basically it's
Stamdk
Stam nb
All redguard
Mag nb
Mag templar
Altmer.
*** diversity.
With sorc you can get away with dark deal, but really you shouldn't use that in a fight.Edited by JinMori on March 12, 2017 7:02PM4 -
EldritchPenguin✭✭✭✭✭
We don't, but that's no excuse to make the problem even worse.cpuScientist wrote: »This will now make Redguard an absolute MUST HAVE for stamina. Rip diversity
we have diversity now?Lilelle Adlis - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Vaynothah Sailenar - Dark Elf Templar
Sherivah Telvanni - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Nephiah Telvanni - Dark Elf Nightblade5 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭This will legitimately make me quit. Resource management is ALREADY hard enough as is. This will break every magic class into a crippling beggars. [snip] this
[Edit for censor bypass]Edited by ZOS_Bill on March 12, 2017 7:42PM17 -
Weathur✭✭Seems like ZoS despises any skill gap/1vX. I think ZoS wants us to join zergs...Anyways, all I can say is if this makes it into live, I doubt I'll continue to play.4
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JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just think of this zos: if everything is nerfed, nothing is nerfed in the end, BUT players will feel the decrease in power, and they will like it less, i mean who likes it when you get nerfed, not only that, it will make the game less fun, just imagine having to sit there spamming heavy attack because you drained all your resources (there is a reason why the wow team decided to give basically infinite resource), expect some people to leave if you go through with this.
On the other hand if everything is buffed, noting is, BUT player will feel the increase in power and they will probably like it more. Buffs>nerfs.
Sitting there doing nothing is not fun.
Nerfs > Buffs, power creep is bad and ruins the game slowly over time.
This is a game without cooldown, resource sustain should matter. You can't compare it to a game that relies on cool down management like WoW.
CP made sustaining way too easy. I completely approve of nerfing this aspect of the CP system.
You don't understand how power creep works.
In my post i said buff everything=buff nothing, In that everything bosses and npc are included, but at least now you deal more damage, making you feel more impactful, this is why i said that buffs are better then nerfs, it's basically human psychology, remove something and it will be felt much more then if something is added.
Power creep apply only when the content isn't scaled with the amount of power a player has.Edited by JinMori on March 12, 2017 7:11PM1 -
GazettE✭✭✭Now im thinking whether i should pre order morrowind or not.
561+ CP
Sorcerers - Stamina - Magicka - Stormproof
Templar - Magicka - Healer
NightBlade - Magicka - DPS0 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭cpuScientist wrote: »This will now make Redguard an absolute MUST HAVE for stamina. Rip diversity
Everyone will be running redguard, no one will run stam templar, mag dk and sorc sustain will be trash, So basically it's
Stamdk
Stam nb
All redguard
Mag nb
Mag templar
Altmer.
*** diversity.
With sorc you can get away with dark deal, but really you shouldn't use that in a fight.
Sustain will take a hit, but still the better groups will be fine with luminous shards and orbs. Just the pick up groups will.be a nightmare. After saying they wanted to balance by raising the floor lowering the ceiling they just raised the floor past the ceiling.5 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »
Pre-Ordering is one of these new concepts that completely plays into the hand of the company. I will.never EVER understand why this has been allowed to become the Norm... Well I do understand but wish I didn't....8 -
andreasranasen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This game is really digging it's own grave.
Magician reduces the cost of my spells right? Like why tf would they touch that for? No one asked for that change. Or reducing my regen in Arcanist.Edited by andreasranasen on March 12, 2017 7:31PM#VMATOKENSYSTEM #WEAPONDYE #TRAITCHANGE #CROWNCRATELOVER- Alliance/Platform: Aldemerii - PS4/NA - CP 800+
- Mag Sorc: Arya Rosendahl - Altmer - Highelf
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Kay1✭✭✭✭✭
✭cpuScientist wrote: »This will now make Redguard an absolute MUST HAVE for stamina. Rip diversity
Everyone will be running redguard, no one will run stam templar, mag dk and sorc sustain will be trash, So basically it's
Stamdk
Stam nb
All redguard
Mag nb
Mag templar
Altmer.
*** diversity.
With sorc you can get away with dark deal, but really you shouldn't use that in a fight.
Lol, not even close, stamnb are currently trash and even if next patch surprise attack deals 20% more damage they will still very bad at everything because their sustain is just horrible and let's not talk about their healing and how they are forced to run specific sets to stay competitive and stamdk will be lost in the oblivion after Morrowind the only reason StamDks were good is because stacking reduce cost allowed you to survive until your ulti is up, now you will have 40 ulti and you will be already without resources.
Stamsorc, magnb and magsorc will be kings of the new meta but all the best players will leave so it's not a big deal I guess that's how they balance it, after this patch the very high majority of solo players will leave so there will only be pugs to kill.
I'm surprised how there's no magtemplars complaining about this while half this forum plays with templars, hi 6k magicka purify.K1 The Big Monkey1 -
Riga_Mortis✭✭✭✭✭cpuScientist wrote: »cpuScientist wrote: »This will now make Redguard an absolute MUST HAVE for stamina. Rip diversity
Everyone will be running redguard, no one will run stam templar, mag dk and sorc sustain will be trash, So basically it's
Stamdk
Stam nb
All redguard
Mag nb
Mag templar
Altmer.
*** diversity.
With sorc you can get away with dark deal, but really you shouldn't use that in a fight.
Sustain will take a hit, but still the better groups will be fine with luminous shards and orbs. Just the pick up groups will.be a nightmare. After saying they wanted to balance by raising the floor lowering the ceiling they just raised the floor past the ceiling.
The last sentence really nails it for me, so much so that I dont think ZOS knows what they are doing anymore.
XBOX 1X
GT - TAGNUTZ7 -
Has anyone considered whether they are removing these because sustain won't be a problem anymore (because of something like cutting spell costs by 50% or similar)?
Other MMO's quite often do this. If you think back to early World of Warcraft, mana was a giant pain for anyone who used it and dps and healers would often go out of mana.
In today's WoW, sustain is just not even a thing - and it made the game a lot more fun.1 -
Kay1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ghostextechnica wrote: »Has anyone considered whether they are removing these because sustain won't be a problem anymore (because of something like cutting spell costs by 50% or similar)?
Other MMO's quite often do this. If you think back to early World of Warcraft, mana was a giant pain for anyone who used it and dps and healers would often go out of mana.
In today's WoW, sustain is just not even a thing - and it made the game a lot more fun.
I tho that at the beginning but then I realized that Zenimax are the DEVs, the company who buffs skills that everyone want to see nerfed into the oblivion and they nerf skills that no one uses in this game since 2014 or skills that no one ever asked for a nerf.
It's probably just going to be a way to separate solo players from Cyrodiil making 1vX and small scale PvP impossible and making them all play Battlegrounds, but they will be boring if everyone will run heavy armor tanks with 70k health while you try to kill him and after 3 skills you already run out of resources.
Good news for some people? vMsa runs will go from 200k each to 1M and vMol runs from 2M to 10-15M.Edited by Kay1 on March 12, 2017 7:51PMK1 The Big Monkey1 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭My initial thought on this are: we get ability cost increases about every other patch, I think we've had 3 or 4 since cp were introduced, we have poisons that target sustain, and I have to wear seducer or lich in pvp. I'd rather zos were just more careful about implementing power creep that decimating sustain every time they make us op PC | EU2 -
waitwhat✭✭✭✭✭This is trash. They replaced useful cp, with a break free cost reduction which we already had, and a cp that is useless in pve, but cancerous in pvp. Really bad. I hope that they revert this, or at least compensate it with changes to some abilities.
Without those two how are we supposed to sustain on a trial boss?? With 600 cp many classes drain 1600 magicka per second (mag dk, sorc and nightblade)! How are we supposed to sustain on a stam templar? These changes are ***. And you can tell that these changes were made purely for pvp, because only in pvp those 2 cp cause problems. Just separate the two already.
This was from Pax right?
Not that this is any good, but the battlegrounds mechanics may have prompted these changes. So now they have to balance Cyrodiil, trials, Maelstrom, and battlegrounds. So things will just get worse.
Sorry. This post wasn't very productive. I was just hopeful that battlegrounds would have leader boards and achievements and peacocking that would pull more toxic people out of Cyrodiil. Now it looks like they will just make things worse.Edited by waitwhat on March 12, 2017 8:03PMPS4 NA AD ScourgeVivec Loading Screen Simulator 2017
Khajiit stamblade main - Walking the Two-Moons Path and robbing cute Breton boys.
Breton magplar vet Trial Healer - Promoting wellness through self-reflection.
Argonian Tripot DK Cyrodiil Tank - One with the Hist and guarding cute Breton boys.
Altmer magsorc PvE DPS - Scamp tramp and unrepentant lush.
"30s to eval"
"Read the ******* lorebook."1 -
joaaocaampos✭✭✭✭✭Not necessarily speaking about nerfs, all I'm seeing is a balance in THE THIEF choices.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Just think of this zos: if everything is nerfed, nothing is nerfed in the end, BUT players will feel the decrease in power, and they will like it less, i mean who likes it when you get nerfed, not only that, it will make the game less fun, just imagine having to sit there spamming heavy attack because you drained all your resources (there is a reason why the wow team decided to give basically infinite resource), expect some people to leave if you go through with this.
On the other hand if everything is buffed, noting is, BUT player will feel the increase in power and they will probably like it more. Buffs>nerfs.
Sitting there doing nothing is not fun.
In PvP this can be said, in PvE it is not accurate to say if every player is nerfed that in the end nothing is nerfed for obvious reasons.
I also meant bosses.
Then what is the point in nerfing players and nerfing NPCs as well? Seems like a zero sum gain that changes nothing.*reads*
*reads again*
*raises eyebrow*
*thinks that since he uses a heavy attack build with no sustain issues in PvE, diz gunna be gud*
*shows large evil grin*
On a more serious note, they already stated that they compared PvP between CP and non-CP, and were not a big fan of how little investment in sustain is required in CP campaigns, so that'll probably happen either way - tho I do expect a pretty big uproar (inb4 PvErs asking to delete PvP, etc etc) which will cause the nerf to be not as drastic as showcased here.
They did mention that they were also considering making 2h weapons count as 2 items. "Why does that matter?" - well, if sustain is going down the trashcan and this change happens, not knowing which sets are gonna drop with Morrowind, I'd expect Moondancer to become even more mandatory if you want to play magicka competitively, so hello RNG hell.
This is a tragedy, This game already is a bit centered around cp, Vet trials are impossible or almost impossible with 0 cp.
just separate pvp and pve already, wow did that, why can't you zenimax??
and CP is our level system now. Other games have a lvl such as lvl 55 or 65 and the end game content is focused around that. There is no difference.0 -
waitwhat✭✭✭✭✭rhapsodious wrote: »Hi, I'm the person who took all these pictures. I didn't want them to be inflammatory so much as "huh, that changed, odd"... sorry Rich. ):
I didn't get the chance to compare skill costs between here and live, unfortunately, but I do not think ZOS employees are gleefully wringing their hands as they plot new ways to ruin your specs. It might end up that you're getting your recovery anyway through other changes, and the new Siphoner star might just be a PVP-oriented one like.. what is it, Ironclad? The one that gives crit res?
Don't make a huge judgment call off of a few pictures or pieces of the puzzle.
You're thinking of Resistant for the crit resist I believe. In any case, crit resist is a (primarily) defensive passive that protects one from crit.
Siphoner will allow anyone with a bow to rake people across the coals in conjunction with recovery nerfs. Just pop those ranged light attacks off after applying Lethal Arrow from stealth with a resource poison with points in Befoul.
Now I hate magplars with the white-hot intensity of a thousand suns, but even I can see how siphoner might be a bit of a problem. I never thought I'd be conflicted in my schadenfreude.
And yeah, as a stamblade, I'll probably just figure out how to fish and maybe rob some guards I haven't gotten to yet.PS4 NA AD ScourgeVivec Loading Screen Simulator 2017
Khajiit stamblade main - Walking the Two-Moons Path and robbing cute Breton boys.
Breton magplar vet Trial Healer - Promoting wellness through self-reflection.
Argonian Tripot DK Cyrodiil Tank - One with the Hist and guarding cute Breton boys.
Altmer magsorc PvE DPS - Scamp tramp and unrepentant lush.
"30s to eval"
"Read the ******* lorebook."0
