Warlord and Magician CP being removed in Morrowind

Gilvoth

Aquanova wrote: »

These are senseless changes. ZOS just doesn't know when to leave things well enough alone.

that has been the theme since before beta 2013.
changes like these were even noted on their FB page and twitter account in back in 2012.
we did not like it back then and is still the same today.

JinMori

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Just think of this zos: if everything is nerfed, nothing is nerfed in the end, BUT players will feel the decrease in power, and they will like it less, i mean who likes it when you get nerfed, not only that, it will make the game less fun, just imagine having to sit there spamming heavy attack because you drained all your resources (there is a reason why the wow team decided to give basically infinite resource), expect some people to leave if you go through with this.

On the other hand if everything is buffed, noting is, BUT player will feel the increase in power and they will probably like it more. Buffs>nerfs.
Sitting there doing nothing is not fun.

In PvP this can be said, in PvE it is not accurate to say if every player is nerfed that in the end nothing is nerfed for obvious reasons.

I also meant bosses.

Samwell Slayer

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

The fact that you can do sustain builds with pure dps gear is kinda bad for itemization. You would still be able to build that way, you'd just have to use sets with regen on them. It's not that crazy, there should be a trade-off for unlimited sustain.

Or .... maybe ... maybe.. they could just make new, harder content?!?

Kay1

R.I.P Solo PvP and Endgame PvE for new players.

To all my godly 1vX'rs it was fun but now it's over, every patch we become weaker and zergs stronger.

You can 1vX on BDO? Was looking forward to start this game now to prevent grinding when I start working.

Wollust

JinMori wrote: »

Just think of this zos: if everything is nerfed, nothing is nerfed in the end, BUT players will feel the decrease in power, and they will like it less, i mean who likes it when you get nerfed, not only that, it will make the game less fun, just imagine having to sit there spamming heavy attack because you drained all your resources (there is a reason why the wow team decided to give basically infinite resource), expect some people to leave if you go through with this.

On the other hand if everything is buffed, noting is, BUT player will feel the increase in power and they will probably like it more. Buffs>nerfs.
Sitting there doing nothing is not fun.

Nerfs > Buffs, power creep is bad and ruins the game slowly over time.
This is a game without cooldown, resource sustain should matter. You can't compare it to a game that relies on cool down management like WoW.
CP made sustaining way too easy. I completely approve of nerfing this aspect of the CP system.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Vercingetorix

This is hilarious. NB's have been asking for a buff and this is likely what we'll get. (Not a buff per se, but everyone else will be nerfed down to our level, lol.) If these changes stick, Nightblades will go from underpowered to topdog DPS in one patch. These changes won't even hurt me because I specifically chose NB for its sustain over the high, unsustainable Sorc damage.

Every sorc that barely handles sustain with the already mandatory support from its healers will be now be bottom of the barrel for DPS.
"NB is lowest DPS. Roll a Sorc."
*Nerfs everyone's sustain, except for the sustain-based class.*
"Sorc has no sustain. Roll a NB."
Well played, ZoS....

Asmael

*reads*

*reads again*

*raises eyebrow*

*thinks that since he uses a heavy attack build with no sustain issues in PvE, diz gunna be gud*

*shows large evil grin*

On a more serious note, they already stated that they compared PvP between CP and non-CP, and were not a big fan of how little investment in sustain is required in CP campaigns, so that'll probably happen either way - tho I do expect a pretty big uproar (inb4 PvErs asking to delete PvP, etc etc) which will cause the nerf to be not as drastic as showcased here.

They did mention that they were also considering making 2h weapons count as 2 items. "Why does that matter?" - well, if sustain is going down the trashcan and this change happens, not knowing which sets are gonna drop with Morrowind, I'd expect Moondancer to become even more mandatory if you want to play magicka competitively, so hello RNG hell.

Masel

From the perspective of an endgame PvE-player, I won't do the same content all over again a lot slower just because they decided so. And I think I can speak for everyone that ever did a Hardmode Trial or even Veteran Trials. You need good support to sustain and keep up the damage that is needed there on almost every build. A 16% cut in cost reduction and a 10% regen loss is insanely high.

I guess it's heavy attack DKs with lightning staffs now

Gl with farming the new meta:

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/masels-elemental-fury-pve-dps-dk-build-1t-ready/

JinMori

Asmael wrote: »

*reads*

*reads again*

*raises eyebrow*

*thinks that since he uses a heavy attack build with no sustain issues in PvE, diz gunna be gud*

*shows large evil grin*

On a more serious note, they already stated that they compared PvP between CP and non-CP, and were not a big fan of how little investment in sustain is required in CP campaigns, so that'll probably happen either way - tho I do expect a pretty big uproar (inb4 PvErs asking to delete PvP, etc etc) which will cause the nerf to be not as drastic as showcased here.

They did mention that they were also considering making 2h weapons count as 2 items. "Why does that matter?" - well, if sustain is going down the trashcan and this change happens, not knowing which sets are gonna drop with Morrowind, I'd expect Moondancer to become even more mandatory if you want to play magicka competitively, so hello RNG hell.

This is a tragedy, This game already is a bit centered around cp, Vet trials are impossible or almost impossible with 0 cp.
just separate pvp and pve already, wow did that, why can't you zenimax??

AFrostWolf

I'm okay with ZOS slowly phasing out the combat bonus of CP and adding it back into gear and base stats. IMHO, CP should be things like small chance for 2x the resources from a node. Ignore stamina while on your horse, Reduced Repair cost, Better chance for certain loot, Or other little boons that don't effect combat.

Like, there are so many passives from skill lines that aren't combat related that should be in the Champion Point system and the lost power should be put back into skill trees.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

QahnaarinDynar

Loc2262 wrote: »

After the senseless changes to proc set crits that made it to live, even despite the protest from PvE players, I'm not surprised about any "balancing" blunders from Z anymore.

Lowering the ceiling some more, Mr. Lambert? What about doing away with CP altogether already? THAT would show those end game players!

Don't tempt him. He's already looking for more excuses to compensate for his "age" as he said once before.

Kay1

All the people saying that it was needed had more than 2 months into the game?

Any of you can right now do vmsa in front of me in Twitch for 1M gold without cp into reduce cost and with 15% into recovery, message me in game @K1msest can't wait to see you godly players doing it and if it's possible later a vMol run without CP there.

SnubbS

Wha... rip magdk

Masel

AFrostWolf wrote: »

I'm okay with ZOS slowly phasing out the combat bonus of CP and adding in back into gear and base stats. IMHO, CP should be things like small chance for 2x the resources from a node. Ignore stamina while on your horse, Or other little boons that don't effect combat.

Maybe they'll reduce the cost of skills overall to make up for the nerf.

Kay1 wrote: »

All the people saying that it was needed had more than 2 months into the game?

Any of you can right now do vmsa in front of me in Twitch for 1M gold without cp into reduce cost and with 15% into recovery, message me in game @K1msest can't wait to see you godly players doing it and if it's possible later a vMol run without CP there.

VMA - no problem without it:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FjQPiA5XENk

As far as vMoL is concerned, that might be a tad harder

Kay1

SnubbS wrote: »

Wha... rip magdk

Next patch best PvP class:

1. Stamsorc
2. Mag NB
3. Mag Sorc

Mag NB have very good sustain so they will be able to run high damage sets and sustain with Light Armor, pots and Siphoning Strikes.

Stamsorc because of dark deal, probably everyone will run Hulking Draugr and Max Stam sets.

MagSorc have very high damage even without damage sets so 5 Seducer will still wreck everyone.

JinMori

Kay1 wrote: »

All the people saying that it was needed had more than 2 months into the game?

Any of you can right now do vmsa in front of me in Twitch for 1M gold without cp into reduce cost and with 15% into recovery, message me in game @K1msest can't wait to see you godly players doing it and if it's possible later a vMol run without CP there.

Vet Arena is plausible, v trials probably not. For plausible, i mean that you will die a lot of times to the point of punching a hole into your monitor (that's fun).
If they make these changes there needs to be something to balance it out.

Derra

Cinbri wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

Already a thread going on about this in the Alliance War forum, but I think maybe it needs to be brought to the wider attention of PvE folks who don't visit there.

Screenshots from PAX East: https://imgur.com/a/KS9mP#rBB48CB (not mine)

• Stamina and Magicka cost reduction CP apparently removed
• Mooncalf and Arcanist regen CP reduced to 15% maximum from 25% maximum
• Warlord changed to "Break Free" cost reduction
• Magician replaced by Siphoner, which reduces target's regen (health, magicka & stamina) when hit by light/heavy attacks

The bolded part basicly only hits medium and light armor builds, not heavy armor builds at all, cause heavy armor builds rely on resource returns through heavy armor constitution, racial passives or other ways to get resource returns.

While this done to directly hurt heavy armor builds.

adriant1978 wrote: »

• Stamina and Magicka cost reduction CP apparently removed
  

Well all medium + light builds spend 100 points into cost reduction before going into reg. It´s simply better than regeneration.
So yeah.
One change equally nerfs all and one specifically targets light + medium. Heavy comes out way ahead in this.

Riggsy

Just get rid of cp in pvp and leave it the way it is for pve, christ all the tweaking to "fix" the balance problem across the board will always be an unfixable problem

Samwell Slayer

JinMori wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

*reads*

*reads again*

*raises eyebrow*

*thinks that since he uses a heavy attack build with no sustain issues in PvE, diz gunna be gud*

*shows large evil grin*

On a more serious note, they already stated that they compared PvP between CP and non-CP, and were not a big fan of how little investment in sustain is required in CP campaigns, so that'll probably happen either way - tho I do expect a pretty big uproar (inb4 PvErs asking to delete PvP, etc etc) which will cause the nerf to be not as drastic as showcased here.

They did mention that they were also considering making 2h weapons count as 2 items. "Why does that matter?" - well, if sustain is going down the trashcan and this change happens, not knowing which sets are gonna drop with Morrowind, I'd expect Moondancer to become even more mandatory if you want to play magicka competitively, so hello RNG hell.

This is a tragedy, This game already is a bit centered around cp, Vet trials are impossible or almost impossible with 0 cp.
just separate pvp and pve already, wow did that, why can't you zenimax??

Yes, end game (key word END) material is, and should be, impossible for somebody who has started the game last week. Get over it.

White wabbit

Oh well hadn't made my mind up about getting the expansion but fed up with Zos messing around with things in game

Kay1

JinMori wrote: »

Kay1 wrote: »

All the people saying that it was needed had more than 2 months into the game?

Any of you can right now do vmsa in front of me in Twitch for 1M gold without cp into reduce cost and with 15% into recovery, message me in game @K1msest can't wait to see you godly players doing it and if it's possible later a vMol run without CP there.

Vet Arena is plausible, v trials probably not. For plausible, i mean that you will die a lot of times to the point of punching a hole into your monitor (that's fun).
If they make these changes there needs to be something to balance it out.

Something big, I already have everything I want from those but what about new players? How they will do it? I guess the people who sell those runs will get rich.

NeillMcAttack

JinMori wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Personnaly I like what I'm seeing.

Sure, it's not set in stone and is subject to change, but, these things are usually, actually, pretty, set in stone. I don't think we will see a return of reduced cost CP stars. But I'm certainly interested to see if there will be other changes made in other passives and abilities to compensate. Maybe reduce cost glyphs will get a buff?!

What about pve? No one use those glyphs.

alexkdd99 wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Personnaly I like what I'm seeing.

Sure, it's not set in stone and is subject to change, but, these things are usually, actually, pretty, set in stone. I don't think we will see a return of reduced cost CP stars. But I'm certainly interested to see if there will be other changes made in other passives and abilities to compensate. Maybe reduce cost glyphs will get a buff?!

So you like what you are seeing even with no clue whether anything will be buffed to compensate? With zos we have no way of knowing what they are up to. It would not be outside the realm of possibilities that instead of getting buffs to compensate we just see more nerfs.

Such drastic changes at once are never a good idea.

It's always the end of days with you people. The individuals that went to ZeniHQ all came back and spoke of being incredibly optimistic about the future of ESO.
I respect a developer that is not afraid of making sweeping changes to improve the future of thier title, popular or not, they usually have many more tools available to investigate these issues and create fixes.

We have seen nothing but buffs with the odd Nerf here and there for the past year. Including raises in the CP cap. How are you all so negative??

Do you guys feel sustain should always be an afterthought with regards gameplay mechanics!?

JinMori

Samwell Slayer wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

*reads*

*reads again*

*raises eyebrow*

*thinks that since he uses a heavy attack build with no sustain issues in PvE, diz gunna be gud*

*shows large evil grin*

On a more serious note, they already stated that they compared PvP between CP and non-CP, and were not a big fan of how little investment in sustain is required in CP campaigns, so that'll probably happen either way - tho I do expect a pretty big uproar (inb4 PvErs asking to delete PvP, etc etc) which will cause the nerf to be not as drastic as showcased here.

They did mention that they were also considering making 2h weapons count as 2 items. "Why does that matter?" - well, if sustain is going down the trashcan and this change happens, not knowing which sets are gonna drop with Morrowind, I'd expect Moondancer to become even more mandatory if you want to play magicka competitively, so hello RNG hell.

This is a tragedy, This game already is a bit centered around cp, Vet trials are impossible or almost impossible with 0 cp.
just separate pvp and pve already, wow did that, why can't you zenimax??

Yes, end game (key word END) material is, and should be, impossible for somebody who has started the game last week. Get over it.

I never said that i'm low cp, i'm actually capped. Maybe they decided to remove this to give a flat 15 % resource cost reduction to everyone, but i doubt it.

SnubbS

Actually after thinking about it, maybe MagDK in PvP would be alright. I could sustain 5x heavy seducer w/ two cost reductions 17ever on no cp week. 1vXing could be easier at the start because the average player who just isn't paying attention would run out of resources and die before you did. So maybe it's not that bad.


Rip pve players lol.

Ajaxduo

If this is true I hope ability cost and armor passives will be rebalanced to offset this and prevent the cp passives from becoming too op.

Shad0wfire99

Looks like the PvP'ers usual QQ'ing worked again.

EldritchPenguin

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Looks like the PvP'ers usual QQ'ing worked again.

I dunno. I've read through this thread, and it seems to me like PvPers are far more vocally opposed to this change than PvEers are. Mostly because this does not at all solve the biggest problems with PvP right now, and actually makes some of them (Redguard Sorcerers, light attack meta) even worse.

jcasini222ub17_ESO

Like I said in another thread time to dust off engine guardian and switch home to azura. Not going to pump cp's into a PvP only star. Also curious if break free will always be responsive if there is a CP star for it.

The more I think it's disappointing on the PvE end. For soloing normal group dungeons the plain sweeps/ proxy det is getting old. I was thinking of trying new builds out, something kinda wild with blazing shield( health gained from plague doctor), infernal guardian, sweeps (using soulshine). But I doubt I'd have the sustain under these new circumstances so probably back to seducer's lol. Always back to seducer's.