Elwendryll wrote: »First of all, even if everyone here seem to agree on the fact that "everyone use heavy now". That's false. Maybe that's your impression, but heavy armor is the less used armor in pvp, someone quoted a dev who posted raw server data to answer a troll post about heavy armor, I tried to find the post, without success, but there were graphics of armor rate for average and high CP.
Heavy armor feels more powerful in pvp, but only because you can't manage to kill these builds as easily as medium and light build. I agree on the fact that it's easier to play with heavy armor, you have more raw survivability. It's easier to start with it. It lets you a chance to fight back.
BUT.
You have less damage, less crit, less max stat, less regen. You have to trade a lot of Dps and sustain for raw survivability. You can block more, and take more hits. While on a medium or light build, you actually need to cast shields and dodge. You can dodge time to time with heavy builds, but you'll quickly run out of stamina. Unless you plan to tank several players at once, you can do way better on a light build for example. But playing heavy is way more forgiving. It allows average players to survive more, and let them a chance to fight back. So, it feels more powerful, but in fact, a good player with medium or light armor can do way better than someone with heavy. Not taking damages at all, with shields or roll dodge, hitting very hard, with a lot of healing and with what may seem infinite ressources pools.
While medium and light builds require reactive gameplay to survive. On an heavy build, you have way less things to do to stay alive.
I play Stamina sorcerer. Ravager and spriggan, so 5 heavy, 2 medium, and I deal damages with my 1h/shield bar. I have so much armor penetration that I have no real problem to take down an heavy armor build, but for a light build stacking shield, that's really an other story. And unless you're playing very carefully and managing very well your ressources, you'll often end up outsustained and die. As an exemple, I spent like 15 minutes fighting a magblades. I finally killed him because he held block and couldn't CC break a stun. I consider myself as slightly under average player, and i'm only more comfortable with heavy armor because i spent a year playing as tank with this character, and i had real troubles to adapt to the medium playstyle.
Sharpened is the problem.
It should be more effective against heavy armor and less against med/light, just as it used to. Nirnhoned should be for those.
I just tried 5h on my MagPlar and am now finding myself really magicka starved. I know I'm doing something wrong, but not sure what. Any tips?
I like Heavy armor. Nerfing of it will result into a direct nerf to templars and DKs because these classes has little escape and take all dangers face to face. Both don't need nerf.
Some PvP adjustments is needed to buff medium armor without affecting PvE DPS seriously. Next direct damage after roll dodge is mitigated for a second? Duration of roll dodge evasion increased? Something.
Anti_Virus wrote: »I like Heavy armor. Nerfing of it will result into a direct nerf to templars and DKs because these classes has little escape and take all dangers face to face. Both don't need nerf.
Some PvP adjustments is needed to buff medium armor without affecting PvE DPS seriously. Next direct damage after roll dodge is mitigated for a second? Duration of roll dodge evasion increased? Something.
All the armors are balanced,
All these people claiming heavy armor is OP are trolls
Medium gives
- Crit chance
- WD
- Dodge roll cost reduction
- sneak cost reduction
- Dodge chance
In terms of dmg
LA>MA> HA
Survivability
Medium = HEAVY > LIGHT
The Demographics of Armor use in Cyrodiil favor magicka builds since they always been the most popular followed by medium and heavy last.
Anyone claiming other wise is using anecdotal evidence and should't be taken seriously.
deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »Speaking of heavy armor. What would be a good setup for stamina based NB? I was thinking 5 ravager, 5 black rose, 2 troll king. What say you?
Anti_Virus wrote: »@Stamicka
If you think heavy is OP thats fine you are entitled to your opinion but,
It does not have better damage than Light or Medium that's just silly and I know you never stated that but others do and is why I call them trolls.
Crit chance is very important you're underestimating that, if I wasn't impenetrable would be the meta trait in pvp reducing crit damage is very important, Thd higher your crit the more damage you deal and the more often. You heal for a good amount.Crit chance is very important
Wrath from heavy armor is great but its a reactive passive that requires you to get hit, Agility is passively always applied and applies more WD than wrath, This patch Wrath was adjusted to not be fully active quickly it takes longer to stack now although the results will be the same.
The general consensus on the forums is that dodge roll Scales the best defensively when facing multiple opponents all attacks are evaded ( if they can be evaded mind you ) from one dodge roll as opposed to blocking and Ward stacking. The armor rating from heavy is great but os easily countered by multiple sources of Physical and Spell penetration that the game provides, if Heavy armor users are reall that much of a problem to you then you can always use multiple Physical penetration abilities to counter act it.
Sneak cost reduction is just an added flavor to medium, but is great for ganking which is really effective in the game atm since it guarantees you a kill without worrying about dying.
All in all IMO Medium and Light Armors are better than Heavy, but its a fact the Both Medium and Light armour deal more damage than heavy armor.
UppGRAYxDD wrote: »I agree with OP, Heavy armor was near useless unless you were a tank until the buff. IMO I agree that it doesn't need to change, but light armor and med need a buff. Possible changes: Passive for light when wearing 5 pieces you receive 5 more seconds on your shields and maybe a passive change for medium that increases mit by 3000 or so when wearing 5 pcs...
UppGRAYxDD wrote: »I agree with OP, Heavy armor was near useless unless you were a tank until the buff. IMO I agree that it doesn't need to change, but light armor and med need a buff. Possible changes: Passive for light when wearing 5 pieces you receive 5 more seconds on your shields and maybe a passive change for medium that increases mit by 3000 or so when wearing 5 pcs...
Light armor should get lifesteal on 5 pieces while medium should get extra penetration. That should help with the main problems of both armors: survaibility in light and extra dmg (against heavy) on medium.
UppGRAYxDD wrote: »I agree with OP, Heavy armor was near useless unless you were a tank until the buff. IMO I agree that it doesn't need to change, but light armor and med need a buff. Possible changes: Passive for light when wearing 5 pieces you receive 5 more seconds on your shields and maybe a passive change for medium that increases mit by 3000 or so when wearing 5 pcs...
Light armor should get lifesteal on 5 pieces while medium should get extra penetration. That should help with the main problems of both armors: survaibility in light and extra dmg (against heavy) on medium.
This does nothing to fix the problem for medium which is it is too squishy... Extra penetration is not needed.. Light armor is fine where it is at.
UppGRAYxDD wrote: »I agree with OP, Heavy armor was near useless unless you were a tank until the buff. IMO I agree that it doesn't need to change, but light armor and med need a buff. Possible changes: Passive for light when wearing 5 pieces you receive 5 more seconds on your shields and maybe a passive change for medium that increases mit by 3000 or so when wearing 5 pcs...
Light armor should get lifesteal on 5 pieces while medium should get extra penetration. That should help with the main problems of both armors: survaibility in light and extra dmg (against heavy) on medium.
This does nothing to fix the problem for medium which is it is too squishy... Extra penetration is not needed.. Light armor is fine where it is at.
I disagree that light is fine where it is at. It is if you want to spam shields but that doesn't help while traveling and you have to do that a lot in Cyrodiil. It may be fine when it gets down to 4v4v4.
For medium; I am not so sure. Maybe have minor evasion built into a passive.
I do like the idea of speeding up attacks in light and medium armor though.
Anti_Virus wrote: »@Stamicka
If you think heavy is OP thats fine you are entitled to your opinion but,
It does not have better damage than Light or Medium that's just silly and I know you never stated that but others do and is why I call them trolls.
Crit chance is very important you're underestimating that, if I wasn't impenetrable would be the meta trait in pvp reducing crit damage is very important, Thd higher your crit the more damage you deal and the more often. You heal for a good amount.Crit chance is very important
Wrath from heavy armor is great but its a reactive passive that requires you to get hit, Agility is passively always applied and applies more WD than wrath, This patch Wrath was adjusted to not be fully active quickly it takes longer to stack now although the results will be the same.
The general consensus on the forums is that dodge roll Scales the best defensively when facing multiple opponents all attacks are evaded ( if they can be evaded mind you ) from one dodge roll as opposed to blocking and Ward stacking. The armor rating from heavy is great but os easily countered by multiple sources of Physical and Spell penetration that the game provides, if Heavy armor users are reall that much of a problem to you then you can always use multiple Physical penetration abilities to counter act it.
Sneak cost reduction is just an added flavor to medium, but is great for ganking which is really effective in the game atm since it guarantees you a kill without worrying about dying.
All in all IMO Medium and Light Armors are better than Heavy, but its a fact the Both Medium and Light armour deal more damage than heavy armor.
What youre forgetting in your little analysis is that heavy armour builds don't have to invest as much into regen and can thus afford to stack more into damage, resulting in similar damage numbers compared to medium armour. People use the thief stone to compensate for the lack of crit on heavy armour, and done. If people instead stack more into sustain while wearing heavy theyll hit for less but they have unbreakable sustain.
Block >>>> dodge, because roll dodge has a penalty for spamming whereas you can pretty much hold block forever in the right heavy armour setup. Yeah, roll dodge lets you dodge projectiles for a brief period of time but block works vs everything that roll dodge works against, and more. There's also a 0.5s cooldown on hits draining your stamina while blocking so essentially you can also block multiple attacks at the same time without a very serious stamina drain..
UppGRAYxDD wrote: »I agree with OP, Heavy armor was near useless unless you were a tank until the buff. IMO I agree that it doesn't need to change, but light armor and med need a buff. Possible changes: Passive for light when wearing 5 pieces you receive 5 more seconds on your shields and maybe a passive change for medium that increases mit by 3000 or so when wearing 5 pcs...
Light armor should get lifesteal on 5 pieces while medium should get extra penetration. That should help with the main problems of both armors: survaibility in light and extra dmg (against heavy) on medium.
This does nothing to fix the problem for medium which is it is too squishy... Extra penetration is not needed.. Light armor is fine where it is at.
I disagree that light is fine where it is at. It is if you want to spam shields but that doesn't help while traveling and you have to do that a lot in Cyrodiil. It may be fine when it gets down to 4v4v4.
For medium; I am not so sure. Maybe have minor evasion built into a passive.
I do like the idea of speeding up attacks in light and medium armor though.
I'm confused, your argument for buffing light armor is because you could potentially get ganked of your horse? If that happens god help us all should a Sorc see you coming.