Finally Conformed to Heavy Armor Meta and Whoa...

Stamicka

This week I got sick of being too squishy in my medium armor for Stam characters, and light armor for my magicka ones. It was simply not survivable and barely viable anymore with the power of individuals constantly going up due passives (fire destro passive) and CP increase. I reluctantly made the choice to switch to heavy armor, and people were not exaggerating about its strength. Compared to medium armor, my damage stayed the same, my sustain is dramatically better (despite my regen dropping to about 900), and my survivability and vigor ticks are much higher. This was all without sacrificing a single thing. A lot of people are saying heavy is only strong when paired with procs. This simply isn't true, heavy armor is very strong on its own.

Now the reason I'm making this post is not necessarily to ask for a heavy armor nerf, but rather a buff to light and medium armor to make playstyle with those armor types at least viable again. I like a variety of playstyles, but with heavy armor being an obvious choice for most pvpers, light and medium armor setups and playstyle are becoming more and more obsolete, which is causing the entirety of pvpers to all have tanky similar builds. Light and medium armor passives don't need to make you tanky as well, but they do need to offer something better (other than crit which isn't too important in pvp) than what Heavy has to offer. I don't think heavy armor needs to be nerfed, but light and medium need to have something that at least makes it appealing.

TheBonesXXX

Stamicka wrote: »

This week I got sick of being too squishy in my medium armor for Stam characters, and light armor for my magicka ones. It was simply not survivable and barely viable anymore with the power of individuals constantly going up due passives (fire destro passive) and CP increase. I reluctantly made the choice to switch to heavy armor, and people were not exaggerating about its strength. Compared to medium armor, my damage stayed the same, my sustain is dramatically better (despite my regen dropping to about 900), and my survivability and vigor ticks are much higher. This was all without sacrificing a single thing. A lot of people are saying heavy is only strong when paired with procs. This simply isn't true, heavy armor is very strong on its own.

Now the reason I'm making this post is not necessarily to ask for a heavy armor nerf, but rather a buff to light and medium armor to make playstyle with those armor types at least viable again. I like a variety of playstyles, but with heavy armor being an obvious choice for most pvpers, light and medium armor setups and playstyle are becoming more and more obsolete, which is causing the entirety of pvpers to all have tanky similar builds. Light and medium armor passives don't need to make you tanky as well, but they do need to offer something better (other than crit which isn't too important in pvp) than what Heavy has to offer. I don't think heavy armor needs to be nerfed, but light and medium need to have something that at least makes it appealing.

Light and Medium should have improved resources, I think light if given the old weighted trait added into its passives would make a hell a lot of difference for people in PvP or a haste mechanic similar to WoW, nothing that makes it op, but something that gives it needed boost to make it relevant. 4% attackspeed/haste that would make a difference that is positive for Light; enough to make it beneficial or treacherous depending on the player.

Durham

The blocking change is affecting you more then 4 to 5k resists... if you could regen Stam while blocking then everyone would dump heavy again....

Bakven

The problem is the wrath passive which gives added dmg based on dmg taken. That needs to go. That is why you have so many ppl run heavy armor. There is no downside.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

I tried heavy setup as an NB. Nothing seemed to really perform well as far as sets. Heavy benefits from the added healing Which an NB really doesn't have compared to other classes that synergize really well with heavy armor.

My main gripe with heavy setups is that they have all that extra protection for a tank build but hit almost as hard as a DPS. Not really balanced, but at the same time I don't have to much trouble against heavy armor users anyways.

One setup I did not get to try was 5 ravager 5 black rose 2 troll king. Maybe that would of been cool for NB.

I agree with whoever says wrath should be changed. But who knows, change wrath and suddenly heavy would suck again. I'm not really sure what they would do to balance it out some.

Killset

Bakven wrote: »

The problem is the wrath passive which gives added dmg based on dmg taken. That needs to go. That is why you have so many ppl run heavy armor. There is no downside.

The damage that sorcs, mag DK's, and now stamplars are throwing around in this game is way to high for nightblades to wear anything but heavy. If heavy loses any more to the wrath or constitution passives the class is doomed. Period. Without a form of mending and vitality pots becoming useless overnight, the class is in dire straights for anything but ganking. Which I hate. I find that most people who want more nerfs to heavy just want a reset back to the good old days of two shotting medium armor users.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

I used to rock all 7 light armor about 6 months ago. Then 5-2, then 5-1-1, then 1-1-5, and now all 7 heavy armor.

It's really not close. My Magplar now has 47k magic and 32k in each resist while in my Templar circle. I sacrifice only the 5 piece light passives and got back almost 15k resistances for my trouble.

arkansas_ESO

Somebody else on these forums (whose name I can't recall atm) had a good idea of nerfing Sharpened (say reducing it to 2500 pen instead of the 5000 pen it currently is) and then readding that pen to light/medium armor passives. Wouldn't affect PVE DPS numbers and would make light/medium more appealing, and would make the trade off of light/medium for damage, heavy for defense more clear.

Hoylegu

I just tried 5h on my MagPlar and am now finding myself really magicka starved. I know I'm doing something wrong, but not sure what. Any tips?

olsborg

Agree with op, a step in the right direction would be the requirement to have 5 medium armor to use shuffle. Medium and light armor also needs individual buffs. Light armor could get 2 seconds longer shield if 5 light armor pieces are equipped. Medium armor could get 2k or so penetration if 5 or more medium pieces are eq. etc etc

thankyourat

Nerf heavy armor

Lexxypwns

Hoylegu wrote: »

I just tried 5h on my MagPlar and am now finding myself really magicka starved. I know I'm doing something wrong, but not sure what. Any tips?

Radiant aura + channeled focus is your sustain. If you can stay in it for 2 second channeled focus is a net magika gain. Instead of radiant aura you can get magika steal from other sources. With those 2 I don't need any other mag sustain tho

Solariken

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

This week I got sick of being too squishy in my medium armor for Stam characters, and light armor for my magicka ones. It was simply not survivable and barely viable anymore with the power of individuals constantly going up due passives (fire destro passive) and CP increase. I reluctantly made the choice to switch to heavy armor, and people were not exaggerating about its strength. Compared to medium armor, my damage stayed the same, my sustain is dramatically better (despite my regen dropping to about 900), and my survivability and vigor ticks are much higher. This was all without sacrificing a single thing. A lot of people are saying heavy is only strong when paired with procs. This simply isn't true, heavy armor is very strong on its own.

Now the reason I'm making this post is not necessarily to ask for a heavy armor nerf, but rather a buff to light and medium armor to make playstyle with those armor types at least viable again. I like a variety of playstyles, but with heavy armor being an obvious choice for most pvpers, light and medium armor setups and playstyle are becoming more and more obsolete, which is causing the entirety of pvpers to all have tanky similar builds. Light and medium armor passives don't need to make you tanky as well, but they do need to offer something better (other than crit which isn't too important in pvp) than what Heavy has to offer. I don't think heavy armor needs to be nerfed, but light and medium need to have something that at least makes it appealing.

Light and Medium should have improved resources, I think light if given the old weighted trait added into its passives would make a hell a lot of difference for people in PvP or a haste mechanic similar to WoW, nothing that makes it op, but something that gives it needed boost to make it relevant. 4% attackspeed/haste that would make a difference that is positive for Light; enough to make it beneficial or treacherous depending on the player.

This is a really excellent idea.

Rohaus

Heavy armor does not need to be nerfed. It already was nerfed this latest housing update.

So you can't get your easy kills in anymore... change with the times and adapt... it's what most good players do.

DeadlyRecluse

Hoylegu wrote: »

I just tried 5h on my MagPlar and am now finding myself really magicka starved. I know I'm doing something wrong, but not sure what. Any tips?

Channeled focus, radiant aura, an occasional heavy attack.

thankyourat

Rohaus wrote: »

Heavy armor does not need to be nerfed. It already was nerfed this latest housing update.

So you can't get your easy kills in anymore... change with the times and adapt... it's what most good players do.

Just cause something was nerfed doesn't mean it's balanced. I've been wearing heavy armor for the most part since dark brotherhood. It's too strong. It's not about easy kills it's about balance if you are a PVPer there is no reason to play anything else. Heavy completely outclasses the other armor types in PvP. We have adapted to heavy. The way we've adapted is by wearing heavy as well. Tanky DPS is basically the most viable way to play PvP and if you aren't wearing heavy armor you are gimping yourself. Nothing should be that over centralizing

Killset

thankyourat wrote: »

Nerf heavy armor

Heavy armor has already been nerfed too much in my opinion, coupled with the nerfs to unchained, which were ridiculous.. And making medium the only armor that can use shuffle isn't a buff to medium it's just another nerf to heavy. Medium will still get vaporized and heavy will be useless... But I guess that's what most mag classes want it seems.

thankyourat

Killset wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Nerf heavy armor

Heavy armor has already been nerfed too much in my opinion, coupled with the nerfs to unchained, which were ridiculous.. And making medium the only armor that can use shuffle isn't a buff to medium it's just another nerf to heavy. Medium will still get vaporized and heavy will be useless... But I guess that's what most mag classes want it seems.

All the mag classes are already playing in heavy armor lol. Heavy armor doesn't even need shuffle why would you need dodge chance when you already have superior resource management, increase tankiness that's passive and not reactive, and a huge healing buff. Heavy is the reason shuffle was nerfed. the skill isn't even that bad when used by medium armor players but it's completely toxic on heavy armor. Like I've said I've basically used heavy armor since they buffed it. I rarely use light or medium on my characters anymore. Heavy is just too strong not to use

arkansas_ESO

Killset wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Nerf heavy armor

Heavy armor has already been nerfed too much in my opinion, coupled with the nerfs to unchained, which were ridiculous.. And making medium the only armor that can use shuffle isn't a buff to medium it's just another nerf to heavy. Medium will still get vaporized and heavy will be useless... But I guess that's what most mag classes want it seems.

But three out of four magic classes all predominantly wear heavy armor, this isn't a magicka VS stamina issue

Killset

I agree. But they wear heavy for the same reason everyone else does. To last a little longer. If you are going to fix the problem you start with the damage being dealt right now. It's off the charts. By further nerfing heavy you inadvertently buff the classes responsible for a lot of the damage we are seeing.

thankyourat

Killset wrote: »

I agree. But they wear heavy for the same reason everyone else does. To last a little longer. If you are going to fix the problem you start with the damage being dealt right now. It's off the charts. By further nerfing heavy you inadvertently buff the classes responsible for a lot of the damage we are seeing.

Wearing heavy for the increased armor I agree with. The problem is that the offensive powers of heavy armor are too high, even without wrath passives the damage can still be pretty close to light and medium armor. What I would like is if heavy is going to be much better for survivability light and medium should have alot more damage. But I don't want to see a damage buff to light and medium damage it's already sky high from all classes (magplars are one shotting people lol). I would rather see a damage nerf to heavy armor.

Anti_Virus

thankyourat wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

I agree. But they wear heavy for the same reason everyone else does. To last a little longer. If you are going to fix the problem you start with the damage being dealt right now. It's off the charts. By further nerfing heavy you inadvertently buff the classes responsible for a lot of the damage we are seeing.

Wearing heavy for the increased armor I agree with. The problem is that the offensive powers of heavy armor are too high, even without wrath passives the damage can still be pretty close to light and medium armor. What I would like is if heavy is going to be much better for survivability light and medium should have alot more damage. But I don't want to see a damage buff to light and medium damage it's already sky high from all classes (magplars are one shotting people lol). I would rather see a damage nerf to heavy armor.

If you nerf the dmg in heavy then we will see a rise in Block tanks and yet people will still complain about that.

thankyourat

Anti_Virus wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

I agree. But they wear heavy for the same reason everyone else does. To last a little longer. If you are going to fix the problem you start with the damage being dealt right now. It's off the charts. By further nerfing heavy you inadvertently buff the classes responsible for a lot of the damage we are seeing.

Wearing heavy for the increased armor I agree with. The problem is that the offensive powers of heavy armor are too high, even without wrath passives the damage can still be pretty close to light and medium armor. What I would like is if heavy is going to be much better for survivability light and medium should have alot more damage. But I don't want to see a damage buff to light and medium damage it's already sky high from all classes (magplars are one shotting people lol). I would rather see a damage nerf to heavy armor.

If you nerf the dmg in heavy then we will see a rise in Block tanks and yet people will still complain about that.

I don't want a complete damage nerf to heavy armor maybe like 15℅ so that way players will still be able to kill players but not one shot players it's kind of crazy when I wear heavy on my mag and stamblade I'm still able to put out so much damage. I actually think the real problem is the gear layout. the fact that you can go 5-5-2 and combine 3 damage sets so even though you are in heavy armor you can still have ridiculously high stats. Like I can wear 5 fury/5 spriggans/ and just throw on any 2 max stat head and shoulders and have super high weapon damage and really high max stam.

in heavy you can just have it all where as in light you can't really be tanky without sacrificing damage same as medium. I think it's already too late to change set item drop pieces. So a damage nerf to heavy seems like the way to go. I think 15℅ in 7 piece heavy seems reasonable to not ruin heavy, but it's still a pretty big nerf and it would make other armor viable again, and let heavy still be viable as well. The reason I want a flat out nerf to heavy armor is because I don't think the game could handle if burst damage goes up any higher

thankyourat

thankyourat wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

I agree. But they wear heavy for the same reason everyone else does. To last a little longer. If you are going to fix the problem you start with the damage being dealt right now. It's off the charts. By further nerfing heavy you inadvertently buff the classes responsible for a lot of the damage we are seeing.

Wearing heavy for the increased armor I agree with. The problem is that the offensive powers of heavy armor are too high, even without wrath passives the damage can still be pretty close to light and medium armor. What I would like is if heavy is going to be much better for survivability light and medium should have alot more damage. But I don't want to see a damage buff to light and medium damage it's already sky high from all classes (magplars are one shotting people lol). I would rather see a damage nerf to heavy armor.

If you nerf the dmg in heavy then we will see a rise in Block tanks and yet people will still complain about that.

I don't want a complete damage nerf to heavy armor maybe like 15℅ so that way players will still be able to kill players but not one shot players it's kind of crazy when I wear heavy on my mag and stamblade I'm still able to put out so much damage. I actually think the real problem is the gear layout. the fact that you can go 5-5-2 and combine 3 damage sets so even though you are in heavy armor you can still have ridiculously high stats. Like I can wear 5 fury/5 spriggans/ and just throw on any 2 max stat head and shoulders and have super high weapon damage and really high max stam.

in heavy you can just have it all where as in light you can't really be tanky without sacrificing damage same as medium. I think it's already too late to change set item drop pieces. So a damage nerf to heavy seems like the way to go. I think 15℅ in 7 piece heavy seems reasonable to not ruin heavy, but it's still a pretty big nerf and it would make other armor viable again, and let heavy still be viable as well. The reason I want a flat out nerf to heavy armor is because I don't think the game could handle if burst damage goes up any higher

And just get rid of wrath all together maybe they can add 300 crit resist instead

Lord-Otto

Sharpened is the problem.
It should be more effective against heavy armor and less against med/light, just as it used to. Nirnhoned should be for those.

thankyourat

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Sharpened is the problem.
It should be more effective against heavy armor and less against med/light, just as it used to. Nirnhoned should be for those.

I think that only part of the problem. You will still be able to combine sets like alchemist (heavy)/Kena/spriggans or spinners. And still have crazy burst damage for how much survivability you have. A nerf to sharpened will help some, but as long as a can combine 3 offensive sets in heavy armor it will over perform. Even offensive crafted sets can be crafted in heavy

Lokey0024

Bakven wrote: »

The problem is the wrath passive which gives added dmg based on dmg taken. That needs to go. That is why you have so many ppl run heavy armor. There is no downside.

Except the bad regen. Or cant dodgeroll without eating all stam. or using shields without eating magika. Or spamming abilities at 20%reduced cost. Or running slower. Or the reduced offensive capability.

Except for those, you're right.

Lexxypwns

thankyourat wrote: »

Killset wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Nerf heavy armor

Heavy armor has already been nerfed too much in my opinion, coupled with the nerfs to unchained, which were ridiculous.. And making medium the only armor that can use shuffle isn't a buff to medium it's just another nerf to heavy. Medium will still get vaporized and heavy will be useless... But I guess that's what most mag classes want it seems.

All the mag classes are already playing in heavy armor lol. Heavy armor doesn't even need shuffle why would you need dodge chance when you already have superior resource management, increase tankiness that's passive and not reactive, and a huge healing buff. Heavy is the reason shuffle was nerfed. the skill isn't even that bad when used by medium armor players but it's completely toxic on heavy armor. Like I've said I've basically used heavy armor since they buffed it. I rarely use light or medium on my characters anymore. Heavy is just too strong not to use

This is blatantly false, on medium armor you're able to use the i-frames from dodge roll and shuffle procs to get ridiculous uptime on total immunity from all dodgeable attacks. Shuffle is also very very strong on heavy AND light builds(that can sustain the stam). But to sit here and say its not "that bad" when you can create the builds you can create with medium + shuffle is a pure strawman against heavy armor.

It only seems stronger on heavy than medium because heavy is so much stronger than medium anyway, even without shuffle. Heavy is incredible right now and not running it is a conscious decision to nerf yourself or suit a specific role, usually ganking. I'm not saying that's ok, but you need to take the overall strength of heavy armor into account and realize its so drastically over performing in PVP that it just amplifies issues with skills that have synergy with it; healing, damage mitigation, damage avoidance. Any non-ganking, medium armor build is going to increase its performance drastically simply by switching to heavy. This doesn't mean that shuffle isn't ridiculously strong and a contender for a skill slot on any build across any class wearing any armor type.

Edit: I absolutely love the idea of adding crit resist in the place of wrath, that opens up CP to build more into tankiness and removes the excessive damage you can get in heavy. My magplar is running 2 Slimecraw 5 spinner 5 Julianos lately and that's already enough damage, I can melt people before I have time for wrath to proc much extra damage, it would hurt heavy armor builds but probably bring them into balance as more tanky, less damage. I know incredible amounts of tankiness already exist, but since unkillable tanks exist I don't think the problem will be too much more exacerbated, half of cyrodiil runs "don't die" builds, but now they can easily stack insane damage too =/

Stamicka

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Bakven wrote: »

The problem is the wrath passive which gives added dmg based on dmg taken. That needs to go. That is why you have so many ppl run heavy armor. There is no downside.

Except the bad regen. Or cant dodgeroll without eating all stam. or using shields without eating magika. Or spamming abilities at 20%reduced cost. Or running slower. Or the reduced offensive capability.

Except for those, you're right.

No the regen is not a problem at all, my regen actually got a lot better switching from medium to heavy. With bigger healing ticks and more resistance, dodge roll isn't as necessary as it is with medium armor. So not dodge rolling as much saves lots of Stam, if you occasionally heavy attack you get a lot of Stam back, and on top of that the constitution passive, especially when paired with black rose, you get even more Stam back. All those paired together my Stam management is much easier than it was with medium, so sustain really isn't a weakness with heavy armor if you use it right.

UppGRAYxDD

I agree with OP, Heavy armor was near useless unless you were a tank until the buff. IMO I agree that it doesn't need to change, but light armor and med need a buff. Possible changes: Passive for light when wearing 5 pieces you receive 5 more seconds on your shields and maybe a passive change for medium that increases mit by 3000 or so when wearing 5 pcs...

Lokey0024

Stamicka wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Bakven wrote: »

The problem is the wrath passive which gives added dmg based on dmg taken. That needs to go. That is why you have so many ppl run heavy armor. There is no downside.

Except the bad regen. Or cant dodgeroll without eating all stam. or using shields without eating magika. Or spamming abilities at 20%reduced cost. Or running slower. Or the reduced offensive capability.

Except for those, you're right.

No the regen is not a problem at all, my regen actually got a lot better switching from medium to heavy. With bigger healing ticks and more resistance, dodge roll isn't as necessary as it is with medium armor. So not dodge rolling as much saves lots of Stam, if you occasionally heavy attack you get a lot of Stam back, and on top of that the constitution passive, especially when paired with black rose, you get even more Stam back. All those paired together my Stam management is much easier than it was with medium, so sustain really isn't a weakness with heavy armor if you use it right.

If you think this, good for you. You been hard at it for a week now so you must know all the ins and outs by now.

You dont mention dark deals or the DK stomp, which is the real reason everyone complains about heavy btw, so might wanna try it for a little longer and fight some poisoners, then sing heavy armors praises. Your tune might change by then.