Cp removal didnt fix the lag

Torbschka · February 2017

Its not any hard data, but my experience on Ps4 pro is: no lag (skills function the moment i use them), but fps drops down to 15-20 fps in large battles.

So my conclusion so far (personal based): it does reduce lag, but consoles cant handle large battles (fps). Maybe it has to do something with the Server, but it feels more like a Hardware issue

UrQuan · February 2017

DHale wrote: »

Epic failure... just as much lag as always. In this case I can definitely say I knew.

*facepalm*

Come on @DHale, you couldn't have read the post 3 posts above yours to understand that this test wasn't intended to fix lag/fps issues?

DHale · February 2017

UrQuan wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Epic failure... just as much lag as always. In this case I can definitely say I knew.

*facepalm*

Come on @DHale, you couldn't have read the post 3 posts above yours to understand that this test wasn't intended to fix lag/fps issues?

That is exactly what they are doing. Brian said it in his post and on ESO live. They are testing the impact of cp on latency.

eso_lags · February 2017

@hmsdragonfly the only thing i will concede to you is that i could have wrote a different title, confirmed is a joke, its not meant to be taken seriously before or after reading what i wrote. I'm not zenimax, i dont confirm anything but my own experience, and that becomes more clear when you read the post.

Just because your saying its a baseless statement doesn't make it true. First off, my experience is just that, and its one of the reasons this forum is here. Hard data? your in a whole different world. Hard data is their job, not mine. My job (in this game) is to play it, have fun, and report any bugs or problems i see on here. The point of posting this is so other people comment with the same issue and maybe they see and take note of it, maybe not, but at least people can post with what is wrong with the game and vent a little.

And it does help, if it didnt help zenimax wouldn't ask for people opinions on here and on the pts, bugs as well, but opinions. Without opinions, haunting curse would have not changed. Your talking data, im talking my experience playing this game, and i can back it up with videos. Now if your asking me if me saying "with no cp im still lagging badly" is going answer the question of " is cp attributing to the lag?" then the answer is no. Thats where the DATA comes in. And that my friend is a job for the devs. So i will agree to disagree with you.

And like i said, "confirmed" was the wrong wording but it wasnt meant to be taken seriously, now that it has been, ya i should have put a different title, maybe i will change it.

eso_lags · February 2017

@hmsdragonfly Changed it. As i said i do agree with you on that part.

UrQuan · February 2017

DHale wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Epic failure... just as much lag as always. In this case I can definitely say I knew.

*facepalm*

Come on @DHale, you couldn't have read the post 3 posts above yours to understand that this test wasn't intended to fix lag/fps issues?

That is exactly what they are doing. Brian said it in his post and on ESO live. They are testing the impact of cp on latency.

They're doing a baseline stress test without CPs as the first in a series of tests. That's not even remotely the same as "let's test this to see if removing CPs fixes it". They're gathering baseline data - baseline data that requires PVP to be pushed to the limits in order to be useful. If you thought this week was supposed to be free of performance issues, you simply don't understand how to do full scale stress tests.

dancouga · February 2017

it is still lag now. 999+ PING when multiple ppls in a scene.

hmsdragonfly · February 2017

itzTJ wrote: »

@hmsdragonfly the only thing i will concede to you is that i could have wrote a different title, confirmed is a joke, its not meant to be taken seriously before or after reading what i wrote. I'm not zenimax, i dont confirm anything but my own experience, and that becomes more clear when you read the post.

Just because your saying its a baseless statement doesn't make it true. First off, my experience is just that, and its one of the reasons this forum is here. Hard data? your in a whole different world. Hard data is their job, not mine. My job (in this game) is to play it, have fun, and report any bugs or problems i see on here. The point of posting this is so other people comment with the same issue and maybe they see and take note of it, maybe not, but at least people can post with what is wrong with the game and vent a little.

And it does help, if it didnt help zenimax wouldn't ask for people opinions on here and on the pts, bugs as well, but opinions. Without opinions, haunting curse would have not changed. Your talking data, im talking my experience playing this game, and i can back it up with videos. Now if your asking me if me saying "with no cp im still lagging badly" is going answer the question of " is cp attributing to the lag?" then the answer is no. Thats where the DATA comes in. And that my friend is a job for the devs. So i will agree to disagree with you.

And like i said, "confirmed" was the wrong wording but it wasnt meant to be taken seriously, now that it has been, ya i should have put a different title, maybe i will change it.

My point doesn't change. "Cp removal didnt fix the lag" is still not true. Firstly, CP removal isn't intended to fix the lag, as UrQuan has explained. Secondly, when in big battles of course it will still be laggy, the question is: is it laggy overall, even when not in a big battle? What is causing the lag, and how bad it is?

Don't take "baseless statement" as an offence. My statement of "it's less laggy on PC EU" is also baseless and doesn't help at all. It's just what it is.

Opinions are about non-technical stuffs like game balance or other things like crown store etc, example "what do you guys think if we introduce this feature to ESO+ subs". No one is going to forum asking for "opinions" of people of the server's performance. That's a technical issue, the answer will come from hard data. Those are facts, not opinions.

kenjiblaster25 · February 2017

Zenimax need to stop trying to make bricks without straw. Lag was worse in Stonefalls; present as much in Scourge. People were still getting kicked.

eso_lags · February 2017

@hmsdragonfly I dont take offence, but i just dont agree with you, except for agreeing to disagree, sorry. And it is a 100% true statement, cp removal didn't fix the lag, as in cps been removed and there is still lag. Now your making me argue points that have nothing to do with this. And this whole argument is getting off topic, and it seems like your not reading what im writing so to sum it up one last time..

This is my experience playing the elder scrolls online. Champion points have been removed, my game is still lagging and lagging worse in cyrodil and most likely because people are crowding because of the removal. I am aware that this is not the sole purpose of this exercise, and that me saying this isnt hard data. Does this post mean they should put cp back on tomorrow and not test further? No. Just what ive experienced and what others have if they decided to post. And for you to say this isn't a place to post about game performance is just wrong. I value player input and i know the devs do to. Obviously the fact that it didnt fix the lag for me is just for me and whoever else posts, and just because the entire point of this thing wasn't to see if it would fix the lag on xbox, does not mean that the point doesn't matter.

It is what it is, like i said, its just what happened to me while playing, some opinion and some venting. Obviously they need more data than what players are experiencing but thats part of it to, IMO. Now, if you want to disagree, great. But its pointless arguing about nothing and getting off topic. If you want to say, hey, this wasn't just to see if removing cp would fix lag in cyrodil, then great im with you now. But anything else is over complicating things and getting off the issue. And @UrQuan explained it well, had i read the post, and if it said they were removing cp and doing stress tests to see how the game would react and if it would change lag, among other things, then i would have thought about things a little differently. But i still would have written this giving my opinion. And thats where we disagree.

rwfairchildpub19_ESO · February 2017

IDK lag was good on my end for the first time. NA PC was doing well a couple hours ago.

andreasranasen · February 2017

@UrQuan Your comments are longer than a Harry Potter book

hmsdragonfly · February 2017

itzTJ wrote: »

@hmsdragonfly I dont take offence, but i just dont agree with you, except for agreeing to disagree, sorry. And it is a 100% true statement, cp removal didn't fix the lag, as in cps been removed and there is still lag. Now your making me argue points that have nothing to do with this. And this whole argument is getting off topic, and it seems like your not reading what im writing so to sum it up one last time..

This is my experience playing the elder scrolls online. Champion points have been removed, my game is still lagging and lagging worse in cyrodil and most likely because people are crowding because of the removal. I am aware that this is not the sole purpose of this exercise, and that me saying this isnt hard data. Does this post mean they should put cp back on tomorrow and not test further? No. Just what ive experienced and what others have if they decided to post. And for you to say this isn't a place to post about game performance is just wrong. I value player input and i know the devs do to. Obviously the fact that it didnt fix the lag for me is just for me and whoever else posts, and just because the entire point of this thing wasn't to see if it would fix the lag on xbox, does not mean that the point doesn't matter.

It is what it is, like i said, its just what happened to me while playing, some opinion and some venting. Obviously they need more data than what players are experiencing but thats part of it to, IMO. Now, if you want to disagree, great. But its pointless arguing about nothing and getting off topic. If you want to say, hey, this wasn't just to see if removing cp would fix lag in cyrodil, then great im with you now. But anything else is over complicating things and getting off the issue. And @UrQuan explained it well, had i read the post, and if it said they were removing cp and doing stress tests to see how the game would react and if it would change lag, among other things, then i would have thought about things a little differently. But i still would have written this giving my opinion. And thats where we disagree.

As I said, "Cp removal didnt fix the lag" is still not "a 100% true statement". Firstly, CP removal isn't intended to fix the lag, as UrQuan has explained. Secondly, when in big battles of course it will still be laggy, but that's not what they are trying to fix. The question is: is it laggy overall, even when not in a big battle? What is causing the lag, and how bad it is? And most importantly, you are just one sample, to conclude something like "Cp removal didnt fix the lag", they need samples from hundreds of thousands players, because as you see, many people have said it is less laggy, so who speaks the truth? To know that, they need hard data. And no, they don't look for it on forum, trust me. No one looks for server's performance (which is a technical issue) on forum, period.

And again, one last time, yes you have every right to express your experience, but then again it matters as much as this statement from me: "PC EU is less laggy". Both are baseless and I just want to put it there to make sure that you understand.

Disagree all you like, it's your right. It's just a fact that no one is going to forum looking for "opinions" of people of the server's performance. That's a technical issue, the answer will come from hard data. Those are facts, not opinions.

Duiwel · February 2017

They should have held out on closing the 2 EU PvP servers until this test was done, it took me 2 hours to get back in the queue after I character logged since stamina wasn't working against the prox det/ eye of the storm zergs.

2 hours meant I could only get in at midnight on a week night so I just gave up getting back in, work > Cyrodiil.

eso_lags · February 2017

@hmsdragonfly you seem like the type that has to have the last word, and we are now just repeating the same things, so this will be my last word to you. I dont believe you understand the definition of baseless. It isn't baseless for a player in a game to give his or her experience. And as for opinions, again, player experience is not opinion, it is what is happening and is backed up by many videos. Is it hard data that will solve the problem 100%? no!

A lot of pc players do not understand how bad it is on console, not that you said anything to that point, but it is very frustrating and people are hoping for change. I watch pc players at fights with hundreds of people and no lag. You cant do that on console, its a whole different world and with around 50 people, it is just about unplayable. So it is really aggravating and anyone posting on here to give their experience with this isn't leaving a baseless claim, or their opinion, they are leaving their in game experience so that others can vent, show videos of it, and hope that zos sees it and knows how bad it is. And hopefully fixes the issue.

For the last time i dont think ( and i doubt many do ) that my experience in game is hard data or fact that is going to solve the problems of what is going on in game, and especially on console, but it certainly doesn't hurt. And it will help if they see it and say okay, a lot of people are constantly getting this awful lag on console in pvp, and with no cp its still bad, even worse with more people. So we keep that in mind, gather our data from stress tests, and keep trying. Or maybe they see the posts and say "GREAT now we can get some great feedback from the tests because of how bad pvp is with all these people right now". Either way this conversation is going in circles. Nice talking to you, but i will agree to disagree with you and you are welcome to do the same.

hmsdragonfly · March 2017

itzTJ wrote: »

@hmsdragonfly you seem like the type that has to have the last word, and we are now just repeating the same things, so this will be my last word to you. I dont believe you understand the definition of baseless. It isn't baseless for a player in a game to give his or her experience. And as for opinions, again, player experience is not opinion, it is what is happening and is backed up by many videos. Is it hard data that will solve the problem 100%? no!

A lot of pc players do not understand how bad it is on console, not that you said anything to that point, but it is very frustrating and people are hoping for change. I watch pc players at fights with hundreds of people and no lag. You cant do that on console, its a whole different world and with around 50 people, it is just about unplayable. So it is really aggravating and anyone posting on here to give their experience with this isn't leaving a baseless claim, or their opinion, they are leaving their in game experience so that others can vent, show videos of it, and hope that zos sees it and knows how bad it is. And hopefully fixes the issue.

For the last time i dont think ( and i doubt many do ) that my experience in game is hard data or fact that is going to solve the problems of what is going on in game, and especially on console, but it certainly doesn't hurt. And it will help if they see it and say okay, a lot of people are constantly getting this awful lag on console in pvp, and with no cp its still bad, even worse with more people. So we keep that in mind, gather our data from stress tests, and keep trying. Or maybe they see the posts and say "GREAT now we can get some great feedback from the tests because of how bad pvp is with all these people right now". Either way this conversation is going in circles. Nice talking to you, but i will agree to disagree with you and you are welcome to do the same.

@itzTJ
1) OK you still have no idea what is going on. I have stated this many times, you have every right to express your experience, but as you see, your experience IN THIS CASE (underlined "in this case") doesn't matter at all, as this is a technical issue. While some people insist that they experienced more lag, many people say that they experienced less lag, so who speak the truth? Whom should the devs listen to? No one. They have hard data to determine as a matter of fact if it's less laggy or more laggy. You clearly took "baseless statement" as an offence, but it's not, my statement that "it's less laggy on PC EU" is also a baseless statement. You have a video? Nice, show us please, but i am pretty sure what we are going to see is graphic framedrop, which has nothing to do with this test, will be explained in the next part.

2) I see your problem here. You do not understand what is going on. ZOS simply cannot do anything to improve console's hardware capability. There are graphic framedrop and lagspike. This test has nothing to do with the graphic framedrop you see in 50v50 zergs battles. It's about the lagspike that people had even when they are in the middle of nowhere. Meaning, ping jumps to 999+ when you are in the middle of nowhere. If the ping is decent and the FPS drops, it has nothing to do with the lagspike ZOS is trying to fix. Blame your outdated piece of hardware, the only way to improve it is to buy PS4 Pro and Xbox Scorpion. Nothing else can be done.

3) True, it doesn't hurt, as I have said above, you have every right to tell us about your experience, but I just want to make sure that you know it is not going to help. No, they don't see it and "say okay, a lot of people are constantly getting this awful lag on console in pvp, and with no cp its still bad, even worse with more people". That's not going to happen. As you see, many people say the opposite thing that it's less laggy, so who speak the truth? No, they don't listen to any of these "feedbacks", as this is a technical issue. They have hard data to determine as a matter of fact if it's less laggy ot not. OK, disagree all you like, it just doesn't matter. Peace out.

SBC · March 2017

Just to throw my experience in here; I spent a good 5 to 6 hours yesterday morning in there playing. I hit some lag when zergs would clash but that is to be expected. It wasn't game breaking though. I had lag but not enough to make me unable to participate. I also did not have any disconnects or game crashes.

Just my experience I suppose. PS4 NA

FinneganFroth · March 2017

Where I didn't have lag, now I have 350+ ping, all enemies are invisible, all siege weapons are invisible, and I die to things I can never see while being rezzed by people I can never see. Awesome stuff.

Volrion · March 2017

kenjiblaster25 wrote: »

Zenimax need to stop trying to make bricks without straw. Lag was worse in Stonefalls; present as much in Scourge. People were still getting kicked.

They only removed CP for Cyrodiil lol

In Cyro, PS4 lag has been greatly reduced.

Seraphayel · March 2017

Volrion wrote: »

kenjiblaster25 wrote: »

Zenimax need to stop trying to make bricks without straw. Lag was worse in Stonefalls; present as much in Scourge. People were still getting kicked.

They only removed CP for Cyrodiil lol

In Cyro, PS4 lag has been greatly reduced.

No it hasn't.

hmsdragonfly · March 2017

Seraphayel wrote: »

Volrion wrote: »

kenjiblaster25 wrote: »

Zenimax need to stop trying to make bricks without straw. Lag was worse in Stonefalls; present as much in Scourge. People were still getting kicked.

They only removed CP for Cyrodiil lol

In Cyro, PS4 lag has been greatly reduced.

No it hasn't.

Good thing ZOS has hard data>P

Seraphayel · March 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Volrion wrote: »

kenjiblaster25 wrote: »

Zenimax need to stop trying to make bricks without straw. Lag was worse in Stonefalls; present as much in Scourge. People were still getting kicked.

They only removed CP for Cyrodiil lol

In Cyro, PS4 lag has been greatly reduced.

No it hasn't.

Good thing ZOS has hard data>P

Right, that will show them removing CP from PvP didn't fix the lag issues. It might have improved the performance but that doesn't help at all. Lags happened long before CP was introduced.

kyle.wilson · March 2017

Fischblut · March 2017

CPs didn't cause lag.

When good old Haderus was low populated campaign on EU PC, I never experienced lag there, even when one of factions was bringing their guild(s) there to crown someone. Only there I saw some nice medium sized siege battles at the keep without any lag

eso_lags · March 2017

I literally almost threw my xbox out last night.. It was a disaster in pvp. I crashed like 20 times within a couple hours.. at one point i crashed 5 times in a row IMMEDIATELY after getting to the keep that i was trying to get to, because there had been a fight there for around 3 hours. People were tallying up their crashes in chat it was awful. The keep ended up going to the other alliance for 30 seconds before we took it over, and they got 260k AP. Im curious to know how many people spent 3+ hours sieging that keep only to not get the AP because their game had crashed right before they took the keep.

Until you play on console, at a peak time in the only pop locked camp, you have no idea what real lag is. It was so choppy, like 2 FPS for the entire fight, couldn't cast anything most of the time. Streak, dizzying swing, even cc break, nothing would work. And that was IF the game let you get close to the fight. Now today i played in another campaign, 2 bars of blue and yellow, and 3 bar red. Still i crashed around 4 times on blue and experienced lag at some bigger fights (40+ people). Its unacceptable. They either need to reduce the amount of players in each camp and increase the camps or figure out how to FIX the servers. Im not claiming i know how to do that, but heres what im saying.

When you advertise a game as an mmo on xbox one, and advertise large scale battles, HOW THEN can you just leave it like this for months, im talking since thieves guild and even before, with lag like this. Only getting worse, and if it gets better its only slightly, but no one even knows because its all random. But i can say that haderus on xbox one has lagged for the last year or more, and in the last 5 to 6 months it has become UNPLAYABLE at big fights. You cant advertise a pvp experience like this and then just keep stuffing the game with stuff and leaving the pvp a mess. I dont care about the endless loop in cyrodil or anything else that people want fixed, im talking flat out game performance, and the performance has been unplayable for a long time. Many people, myself included, put a lot of time and money in this game and have been patient, i just want them to do something or give an answer that its never gonna happen. And i have said in many of my posts " if the answer is that this game is simply NOT going to run good on XB1 and PS4, then just let us know, so at least we know what the problem is and can look to the future". Im glad they are now listening more, and running these tests, but after the last 2 days i am disgusted. I love the game and the people at zos, but this is frustrating to say the least. Cp removal or not, this happens all the time. Im happy they are doing tests ( and this nightmare should be great for their tests) but all im saying is that we need to put a rush on this, or get some answers. We are consumers who pay for this, and we at least deserve that.

@hmsdragonfly You literally have no idea what the problem is or how to fix it because you dont work for zos (if im wrong correct me) and your not running the tests. If the ping is jumping in the middle of nowhere (and it does and lags for no reason with 1 or 2 people around) then just imagine how bad it is at these fights, it NEEDS TO BE RESOLVED, THIS WASNT ADVERTISED FOR SCORPIO. 99% of people in the main campaign on XB1 are going through this. This game is in a grave state here on console, and the fact you say blame our outdated hardware is preposterous. Like i just said this was advertised to work on xbox one and ps4, not to be an aggravating nightmare in pvp. And if these tests are not to help the lag when fighting then they need to run ones that will. 2 full groups of players should be able to fight without insane lag!!! This is an mmo. Also, pc players with the best equipment complain about lag, its not anywhere close to the lag on console, but ive read posts like that plenty of times. Plus, i play on pc as well and have seen some of the lag that happens.

Oh and you do need to read up on what baseless statement means. I said i wouldn't respond anymore, but it really aggravated me when you said that our hardware is outdated..... Right, as if the game was advertised like "play at your own risk on xb1/ps4, or wait til scorpio for the game to really work!".. I have tried to be reasonable with you, and you wont have it. I have tried to explain to you that our opinions differ so lets agree to disagree and stop this pointless roundabout argument. But you just dont get it, so ill put it like this, IMHO im right, and you sir are mistaken. No hostility, i really do like to debate but i feel like this is getting us nowhere. But again nice talking to you.

Syntse · March 2017

itzTJ wrote: »

They either need to reduce the amount of players in each camp and increase the camps or figure out how to FIX the servers. Im not claiming i know how to do that, but heres what im saying.

This no CP experiment is just that. Trying to figure out how to fix the servers by removing one layer or data traffic and hopefully they will get some useful information out of it too. Don't know what are the numbers they let people in campaigns but sure one way of helping situation would be reducing amount of people in campaign on console. There might be something in the console side of things too as even in Battlefield games they have often reduced game sizes on consoles compared to PC.

Nelson_Rebel · March 2017

Agreed. The CP removal wasn't a success. At this point they have to accept that removing deer and trees and taking away CP is not the root of their problems with cyrodiil and performance

Syntse · March 2017

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

The CP removal wasn't a success.

Only if the removal of CP was supposed to be cure. They just removed one layer of passives to get data what other things contribute to lag.

Jitterbug · March 2017

andreasranasen wrote: »

@UrQuan Your comments are longer than a Harry Potter book

You can tell a lot about a man from his literary references.

Nelson_Rebel · March 2017

Syntse wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

The CP removal wasn't a success.

Only if the removal of CP was supposed to be cure. They just removed one layer of passives to get data what other things contribute to lag.

Quite so, however it was heavily implied by brian wheeler during the previous ESO live session and
in his own words, he and his team were trying to pin the extra data from CP as the cause.

Which in actuality doesn't make sense as the game calculates our other passive trees in exactly the same way, the only difference we see is a format change when we customize those passives.