Furniture Crafting : Completely Inaccessible

Zypheran · February 2017

Valorin wrote: »

I needed to farm a bit, but I was able to craft every substantial furniture item within a few days. And since furniture is tradable I really never had a problem getting the stuff I wanted. A friendly guild with a good community helps as well.

This is the issue with RNGesus. Some people are loved while others.... well, RNGesus only has so much love to go round!
And because this game relies so heavily on RNG based grinding, it can make for very unhappy times for unloved.

notimetocare · February 2017

MornaBaine wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

And this is the only part of the housing system they put any thought or work towards. After all, the houses themselves are just lazy copies of existing buildings. There should have never been new mats for crafting furniture, they should have been all the same mats that already exist in the game. The new thing should have been the blueprints and that's it.

I "lucked out" because my Main is my crafter and has maxxed all the crafts except Enchanting, which she is more than halfway through. But I've been playing her since day one of this game. Players newer than that to the game are unlikely to have a master crafter and it makes all kinds of sense for crafting to be spread across a few characters so the requirement for maxxing all the crafts on a single character is really unfair.

Add to that the furniture storage problem and yes, this whole system really is just ANOTHER slap in the face to crafters.

Are ypu joking? Maxxing crafting other than enchanting takes no time at all. Most people can be maxxed on a new account by cp 100.

For someone who has "no time to care" you sure care a lot about responding to my posts. LOL You seem to think you know how much playtime most people have. You don't. So you don't know how long it really takes anyone to get to CP 100. And for people who are NOT crafters, because, yes, some players aren't into crafting, getting furnishings that look nice pretty much DOES require the cash shop. And that's what a lot of people find the most offensive about this.

The statement isnt about how long it takes to get to max lvl and cp100 but that by the time someone gets that far being max crafting in all but enchanting is almost a given even if you only deconstruct half the drops.

False, all furniture can be bought and sold. Someone not into crafting has access to all furniture without the cashshop via gold.

If someone isnt into crafting and has no gold? Sure, they are forced into the cashshop. But really, if you are in that position then what exactly do you do ingame?

Recremen · February 2017

ElliottXO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

ElliottXO wrote: »

Zypheran wrote: »

ElliottXO wrote: »

Furniture prices are dropping like hot potatoes. In two weeks you can buy rare stuff for 2k per piece from any guild vendor.

People always assume they need to do that stuff all by themselves. No you don't. It's an MMO. You can trade.

I disagree with your speculation. The design prices may drop really low but given the extremely poor drop rates for furniture mats and writs, I doubt the prices for actual furniture will drop very low. It just takes too long to craft to justify selling it cheap.... imo

I grinded mats before homestead. Like many others.

So no matter at what price I sell the furniture or furniture mats, it took me no extra time to get it. It's all bonus for something I would have done anyway.

Selling furniture is extremely difficult due to the variety and personal preferences of people. When all people realize that they will flood the market with furniture mats.

Give it two weeks and be enlightened.

@ElliottXO

I am confused by this statement. Are you saying that you are in the habit of grinding for materials, and therefore will be getting these anyway for something you do all the time, or are you implying that you got furniture-crafting materials before they were actually in the game files? >.>

Wow. Is this really your question? What do you think is more likely?

Hey, I just wanted to be sure you weren't lying, it's not like there aren't people who do that for troll value. :-p

STEVIL · February 2017

Recremen wrote: »

ElliottXO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

ElliottXO wrote: »

Zypheran wrote: »

ElliottXO wrote: »

Furniture prices are dropping like hot potatoes. In two weeks you can buy rare stuff for 2k per piece from any guild vendor.

People always assume they need to do that stuff all by themselves. No you don't. It's an MMO. You can trade.

I disagree with your speculation. The design prices may drop really low but given the extremely poor drop rates for furniture mats and writs, I doubt the prices for actual furniture will drop very low. It just takes too long to craft to justify selling it cheap.... imo

I grinded mats before homestead. Like many others.

So no matter at what price I sell the furniture or furniture mats, it took me no extra time to get it. It's all bonus for something I would have done anyway.

Selling furniture is extremely difficult due to the variety and personal preferences of people. When all people realize that they will flood the market with furniture mats.

Give it two weeks and be enlightened.

@ElliottXO

I am confused by this statement. Are you saying that you are in the habit of grinding for materials, and therefore will be getting these anyway for something you do all the time, or are you implying that you got furniture-crafting materials before they were actually in the game files? >.>

Wow. Is this really your question? What do you think is more likely?

Hey, I just wanted to be sure you weren't lying, it's not like there aren't people who do that for troll value. :-p

And lets not forget your question provoked his response then your follow-up and now it gets mine too... so talk about troll value. nicely done.

parkham · February 2017

I just wanted to update what I've been seeing. I don't have any plans immediately for making furniture - I find about 5 or 6 different plans/blueprints per day. I'm going to start selling them off as I can make at least 7 or 8k off them.

Everyone complaining - just take it easy and slow. Get the stuff as it comes while you're doing other things. There's so much to do in this game (in my opinion), eventually you'll get there. I don't even think about furniture crafting or housing.

I take it as it comes and eventually I'll have a house with what I want decorated in it. It might take six months, but it'll get there - without touching any of my gold or crowns.

cyberjanet · February 2017

Recremen wrote: »

Other ideas to help fix the problem :
Give furniture materials from refining

Give furniture materials from hireling mails

Make furniture materials purchasable from various vendors, like for Alliance Points, Tel Var, etc.

Refining and hirelings yes! Also from survey gathering.

Recremen · February 2017

parkham wrote: »

I just wanted to update what I've been seeing. I don't have any plans immediately for making furniture - I find about 5 or 6 different plans/blueprints per day. I'm going to start selling them off as I can make at least 7 or 8k off them.

Everyone complaining - just take it easy and slow. Get the stuff as it comes while you're doing other things. There's so much to do in this game (in my opinion), eventually you'll get there. I don't even think about furniture crafting or housing.

I take it as it comes and eventually I'll have a house with what I want decorated in it. It might take six months, but it'll get there - without touching any of my gold or crowns.

@parkham

The furniture plans by themselves are not the issue, as I stated originally. I am totally fine with how that works, it's not super different from provisioning. It's still a grind, but the real problem comes from it being paired with incredibly rare furniture crafting materials. You can't just take that easy and slow because it's already going at a snail's pace. You can sell a stack of Rubedite for the same price that players are asking for a single piece of Regulus! Or you can go spend a few hours on your own and get a whole 30 pieces of it, max. That is the real problem. We need these to drop at a rate an order of magnitude higher than they currently do. It would still take work to farm them, but it's then something you can realistically accomplish, instead of our current situation where you simply can't expect to fully furnish your large houses with your own crafted furniture.

parkham · February 2017

Why can't you take it easy and slow? This is tantamount to any new technology being released. There's a mad rush for it at the beginning and prices are exorbitant. After six months everything levels out. That's what I was referring to in regards to the whole housing furniture plans and materials concern that people are having.

I just don't see it as a problem. I perceive this as players wanting stuff and wanting it now. That's why I urge patience and to take it easy. It'll get there.

Recremen · February 2017

parkham wrote: »

Why can't you take it easy and slow? This is tantamount to any new technology being released. There's a mad rush for it at the beginning and prices are exorbitant. After six months everything levels out. That's what I was referring to in regards to the whole housing furniture plans and materials concern that people are having.

I just don't see it as a problem. I perceive this as players wanting stuff and wanting it now. That's why I urge patience and to take it easy. It'll get there.

@parkham

Then your perceptions are off. I don't "want it now". I want it achievable in a reasonable amount of time. At current drop rates I would have to spend several hours just farming materials every single day for the next two years to fully furnish a large house with my own crafted furniture. That's silly. You can buy multiple houses. You should be able to furnish multiple houses. It's something that should be personally achievable if you put the hours in, but we are in a situation where the furniture materials drop so infrequently that you don't actually have enough hours in a year to accomplish what you're after.

Think of it this way: if you were given a sturdy pickaxe you could eventually build a path through a mountain. It would just take your whole darn life to do it. But if you were given proper drilling tools, you could build that same path in much less time, and everyone would be happier for it. You'd still be putting in work, but you wouldn't look like an idiot grinding away your life for no reason. You are basically saying "the pickaxe is more noble" but it's just not true, it's literally a time-waster.

parkham · February 2017

If that truly is the case, let's hope ZOS works out a happy balance then.

Linaleah · February 2017

Recremen wrote: »

parkham wrote: »

I just wanted to update what I've been seeing. I don't have any plans immediately for making furniture - I find about 5 or 6 different plans/blueprints per day. I'm going to start selling them off as I can make at least 7 or 8k off them.

Everyone complaining - just take it easy and slow. Get the stuff as it comes while you're doing other things. There's so much to do in this game (in my opinion), eventually you'll get there. I don't even think about furniture crafting or housing.

I take it as it comes and eventually I'll have a house with what I want decorated in it. It might take six months, but it'll get there - without touching any of my gold or crowns.

@parkham

The furniture plans by themselves are not the issue, as I stated originally. I am totally fine with how that works, it's not super different from provisioning. It's still a grind, but the real problem comes from it being paired with incredibly rare furniture crafting materials. You can't just take that easy and slow because it's already going at a snail's pace. You can sell a stack of Rubedite for the same price that players are asking for a single piece of Regulus! Or you can go spend a few hours on your own and get a whole 30 pieces of it, max. That is the real problem. We need these to drop at a rate an order of magnitude higher than they currently do. It would still take work to farm them, but it's then something you can realistically accomplish, instead of our current situation where you simply can't expect to fully furnish your large houses with your own crafted furniture.

this. so. much. this. taking your time is all good and well, but taking hours to farm enough materials for a single cupboard? is NOT. and before "you can just buy it!" gets brought up... again. there are pieces of furniture that cost as much as entire medium house! and only some of them are achievement pieces.

Wanderinlost · February 2017

Scarcity can be a great thing. It is more rewarding in the long run. The problem people are having is they want to grind it out in a week and be done with it. Clearly housing is meant to be a long term endeavour. Which is good. Instead of trying to force it, you will be better off just playing the game as usual. Play a few hours a day, loot/harvest everything you run across and you will likely be able to craft a new item every day or two.

It is far more frustrating when things have such abundance they are practically worthless.

STEVIL · February 2017

Recremen wrote: »

parkham wrote: »

Why can't you take it easy and slow? This is tantamount to any new technology being released. There's a mad rush for it at the beginning and prices are exorbitant. After six months everything levels out. That's what I was referring to in regards to the whole housing furniture plans and materials concern that people are having.

I just don't see it as a problem. I perceive this as players wanting stuff and wanting it now. That's why I urge patience and to take it easy. It'll get there.

@parkham

Then your perceptions are off. I don't "want it now". I want it achievable in a reasonable amount of time. At current drop rates I would have to spend several hours just farming materials every single day for the next two years to fully furnish a large house with my own crafted furniture. That's silly. You can buy multiple houses. You should be able to furnish multiple houses. It's something that should be personally achievable if you put the hours in, but we are in a situation where the furniture materials drop so infrequently that you don't actually have enough hours in a year to accomplish what you're after.

Think of it this way: if you were given a sturdy pickaxe you could eventually build a path through a mountain. It would just take your whole darn life to do it. But if you were given proper drilling tools, you could build that same path in much less time, and everyone would be happier for it. You'd still be putting in work, but you wouldn't look like an idiot grinding away your life for no reason. You are basically saying "the pickaxe is more noble" but it's just not true, it's literally a time-waster.

yes but... you should be blaming yourself for it taking so long, not ZoS.

We agree on one part - i agree with you that its silly.

its silly to decide to limit yourself to only using furnishing with your own crafted gear exclusively for a large home AND expect that to happen in anything like a "reasonable" amount of time.

Fully outfitting a large house - lets compare that to getting top class gear - 9 trait sets -
Learning 9 traits on 7 different slots plus one to four more slolts for weapon/shield - that took how long exactly?

In-game you have the ability to buy completed furnishings from the NPC vendors for gold at quite reasonable prices for normal stuff and exorbitant prices for top stuff.

In game, you have the ability to buy completed furnishings from guild stores in all sorts of quantities and a wide variety of prices and qualities - and those are going down quickly.

take a large house at 1.2mil.
that can have on ESO+ 600 furnishings.
from the NPCV vendors you could buy 200 of the 100g furnishings. 200 of the 250g furnishings and 200 of the 400g furnishings for 150k.
that is only 12.5% of the cost of the unfurnished house. obviously if one can afford the house that much furnishing is with the possible range of gold earnings.

had they put in place a system where the only way to get furniture for your house was to craft it, then your presumption of how long it should take would have some merit.

But, when you start your "estimation" with after i throw out all the other easy and quick options and limit myself to only this one option... the recipient of your conclusion - in this case "silly" - has to shift from "the system" to "the decision maker."

They introduced a system with three in-game mechanisms for how to furnihs your home:
Easy, quick, reliably unlimited and relatively cheap vendor furnishings (with some more expensive options behind achievements)
Player governed Guild trading - driven by the masses - and so variably in reliability and price.
Slower, grind and skill driven self-crafting.

to decide to throw out the first two and then use your time estimate for how long it would take to determine the time frame is out of whack is nonsense.

Even if you go the entirely self-crafted route, you can speed it up immensely at great cost by guild store buying of the mats. Again that would be your choice shifting away from purchased furnishings to purchased mats but self-crafted furnishings - pricey but also very timely.

They, ZoS put in a system where there are multiple ways to go about getting furnishings for your home. Some are quick, some are cheap, some take lots of time, some take lotsa gold... a mix-n-match multi-pronged approach will easily get the job done in something like "a reasonable amount of time" - without a single crown being spent.

if you stop tieing both hands behind your back and one foot to your thigh you may find your progress in the foot race to be more to your liking.

try this on for size:

Figure you take 5% of the value of your large homer to the npc vendors and buy 40% of your max ESO+ allotments. that is a few hours game time if you are slow. maybe 240 furnishings.
Then take 5% of the price of your home to guild vendors and buy various specific furnishings not available from the NPC vendors. lets say they run 10x the cost of the more routine things you bought - thats another 24 furnishings of more significant quality and decor.
The take 2.5% to the guild stores to buy the extra mats for crafting that you are having the most trouble finding or have the most need for. Enough to get you going with a little steam
then harvest and gather and craft etc to start filling in the rest of what you want.

I think many "reasonable" folks would see that time table and immediate move to sufficient then progress to better more desirable end stage as quite definitely sufficiently active and rewarding - if they were the type to buy a large house in the first place.

but the decision that housing is worth outlaying 1.2m in gold but not worth spending a dime on furnishing and then using that as basis for how fast crafting needs to be - that is - how did you put it - yeah - agreed - silly.

parkham · February 2017

I learned a lot just by reading @STEVIL 's post. Heck, I might even consider it a guide.

BlackSparrow · February 2017

@STEVIL : While I agree most with your wonderful post, do you know something about the vendors that everyone else doesn't? As far as I'm aware, the NPC vendors have three types of items:

Landscaping items like trees, shrubs, and rocks (which can't be crafted anyway)
Achievement and luxury items that start at relatively high prices (5,000 is the bottom I've seen)
About four basic house items that include a rough stool, a tea table, and planks.

Unless I've missed something or they've added a lot to the NPC vendors since launch, you can really only use them for landscaping and a few achievement items, which is not really a way to fill up 40% of your house unless you're passionate about gardening.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, though!

Linaleah · February 2017

BlackSparrow wrote: »

@STEVIL : While I agree most with your wonderful post, do you know something about the vendors that everyone else doesn't? As far as I'm aware, the NPC vendors have three types of items:
Landscaping items like trees, shrubs, and rocks (which can't be crafted anyway)

Achievement and luxury items that start at relatively high prices (5,000 is the bottom I've seen)

About four basic house items that include a rough stool, a tea table, and planks.

Unless I've missed something or they've added a lot to the NPC vendors since launch, you can really only use them for landscaping and a few achievement items, which is not really a way to fill up 40% of your house unless you're passionate about gardening.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, though!

you are very much correct. vendors are supplemental. very mildly supplemental. they have some nice lighting/flooring options off achievements and pretty much all my indoor and outdoor plants come from vendors (and plants alone for a small house I so far managed to decorate - cost as much as the house itself). everything else needs to be crafted or bought with crowns. I DID actualy buy a LOT of the patterns I can craft now - from other players, both from guild traders and advertisements in chat. but it still adds up. like crazy.

whether you are farming for materials, or farming for gold to buy furnishings (or mats) from other players or vendors? the grind is kinda nuts, any way you swing it.

at this point I'm just about ready to give up an idea of anything beyond medium house. because I'm spending majority of my time in game trying to get furnishings as it is.

STEVIL · February 2017

BlackSparrow wrote: »

@STEVIL : While I agree most with your wonderful post, do you know something about the vendors that everyone else doesn't? As far as I'm aware, the NPC vendors have three types of items:
Landscaping items like trees, shrubs, and rocks (which can't be crafted anyway)

Achievement and luxury items that start at relatively high prices (5,000 is the bottom I've seen)

About four basic house items that include a rough stool, a tea table, and planks.

Unless I've missed something or they've added a lot to the NPC vendors since launch, you can really only use them for landscaping and a few achievement items, which is not really a way to fill up 40% of your house unless you're passionate about gardening.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, though!

i am certainly NOT saying you can buy everything from the NPC vendors. i dont mean to imply that.

thats why i emphasized you can get things from multiple sources in multiple ways
NPC vendors
Achievement vendors
Guild vendors for furnishings
Guild vendors for mats and prints
harvesting/playing for prints and mats
crafting.

Spreading your gold and time across the multiple venues will drastically change and impact your rate of progress across your housing efforts - especially when the alternative being touted was doing it all by crafting only.

And as someone above commented on it -yes - it might well be that if your gold on hand and gold revenue stream wont support it, going with a medium house but having gold for furnishings instead of a large may well be the best move.

Actually to be frank, i had originally planned to come in and get a large house but once the values started being revealed i went with the multiple medium and some smaller houses spread at key points option as it provided more bang for the in-game buck as far as my needs are concerned. IMO anyone looking at buying with in-game gold should strongly consider one medium and two small or two mediums before they lay down the gold for the one large. The final decision will of course depend on your desires/needs/preferences but if the numbers and location(s) are a prime factor the multi-smaller make a lot of sense.

it flips with crowns tho. there the numbers favors the larger.

Recremen · February 2017

Wanderinlost wrote: »

The problem people are having is they want to grind it out in a week

@Wanderinlost

I don't know how many times and ways I can say this, but the problem is not people wanting to grind it out in a week. I haven't seen anyone say that. I don't want it, my friends don't want it, my guild doesn't want it. We are talking about something that will take literal years, spending hours a day on it, just for a single large house, and instead of actually asking what kind of timeframe we think is appropriate you just make up "finish in a week"? Or did you just hear it from another naysayer on the forums, assume it was true, and come to counter a completely nonexistent argument? I truly don't know where this "finish it in a week" nonsense came from, nobody has ever said that except the people who apparently think that several years is OK to spend on furnishing one digital house with self-crafted furniture.

Recremen · February 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

parkham wrote: »

Why can't you take it easy and slow? This is tantamount to any new technology being released. There's a mad rush for it at the beginning and prices are exorbitant. After six months everything levels out. That's what I was referring to in regards to the whole housing furniture plans and materials concern that people are having.

I just don't see it as a problem. I perceive this as players wanting stuff and wanting it now. That's why I urge patience and to take it easy. It'll get there.

@parkham

Then your perceptions are off. I don't "want it now". I want it achievable in a reasonable amount of time. At current drop rates I would have to spend several hours just farming materials every single day for the next two years to fully furnish a large house with my own crafted furniture. That's silly. You can buy multiple houses. You should be able to furnish multiple houses. It's something that should be personally achievable if you put the hours in, but we are in a situation where the furniture materials drop so infrequently that you don't actually have enough hours in a year to accomplish what you're after.

Think of it this way: if you were given a sturdy pickaxe you could eventually build a path through a mountain. It would just take your whole darn life to do it. But if you were given proper drilling tools, you could build that same path in much less time, and everyone would be happier for it. You'd still be putting in work, but you wouldn't look like an idiot grinding away your life for no reason. You are basically saying "the pickaxe is more noble" but it's just not true, it's literally a time-waster.

yes but... you should be blaming yourself for it taking so long, not ZoS.

We agree on one part - i agree with you that its silly.

its silly to decide to limit yourself to only using furnishing with your own crafted gear exclusively for a large home AND expect that to happen in anything like a "reasonable" amount of time.

Fully outfitting a large house - lets compare that to getting top class gear - 9 trait sets -
Learning 9 traits on 7 different slots plus one to four more slolts for weapon/shield - that took how long exactly?

In-game you have the ability to buy completed furnishings from the NPC vendors for gold at quite reasonable prices for normal stuff and exorbitant prices for top stuff.

In game, you have the ability to buy completed furnishings from guild stores in all sorts of quantities and a wide variety of prices and qualities - and those are going down quickly.

take a large house at 1.2mil.
that can have on ESO+ 600 furnishings.
from the NPCV vendors you could buy 200 of the 100g furnishings. 200 of the 250g furnishings and 200 of the 400g furnishings for 150k.
that is only 12.5% of the cost of the unfurnished house. obviously if one can afford the house that much furnishing is with the possible range of gold earnings.

had they put in place a system where the only way to get furniture for your house was to craft it, then your presumption of how long it should take would have some merit.

But, when you start your "estimation" with after i throw out all the other easy and quick options and limit myself to only this one option... the recipient of your conclusion - in this case "silly" - has to shift from "the system" to "the decision maker."

They introduced a system with three in-game mechanisms for how to furnihs your home:
Easy, quick, reliably unlimited and relatively cheap vendor furnishings (with some more expensive options behind achievements)
Player governed Guild trading - driven by the masses - and so variably in reliability and price.
Slower, grind and skill driven self-crafting.

to decide to throw out the first two and then use your time estimate for how long it would take to determine the time frame is out of whack is nonsense.

Even if you go the entirely self-crafted route, you can speed it up immensely at great cost by guild store buying of the mats. Again that would be your choice shifting away from purchased furnishings to purchased mats but self-crafted furnishings - pricey but also very timely.

They, ZoS put in a system where there are multiple ways to go about getting furnishings for your home. Some are quick, some are cheap, some take lots of time, some take lotsa gold... a mix-n-match multi-pronged approach will easily get the job done in something like "a reasonable amount of time" - without a single crown being spent.

if you stop tieing both hands behind your back and one foot to your thigh you may find your progress in the foot race to be more to your liking.

try this on for size:
Figure you take 5% of the value of your large homer to the npc vendors and buy 40% of your max ESO+ allotments. that is a few hours game time if you are slow. maybe 240 furnishings.

Then take 5% of the price of your home to guild vendors and buy various specific furnishings not available from the NPC vendors. lets say they run 10x the cost of the more routine things you bought - thats another 24 furnishings of more significant quality and decor.

The take 2.5% to the guild stores to buy the extra mats for crafting that you are having the most trouble finding or have the most need for. Enough to get you going with a little steam

then harvest and gather and craft etc to start filling in the rest of what you want.

I think many "reasonable" folks would see that time table and immediate move to sufficient then progress to better more desirable end stage as quite definitely sufficiently active and rewarding - if they were the type to buy a large house in the first place.

but the decision that housing is worth outlaying 1.2m in gold but not worth spending a dime on furnishing and then using that as basis for how fast crafting needs to be - that is - how did you put it - yeah - agreed - silly.

@STEVIL

The reason I chose to talk about fully-furnishing a large house on your own is because it is demonstrative of the problem as a whole, not because I'm somehow ignorant of the other ways to get furnishings or "silly" enough to not put trees in my backyard. I don't know how you managed to type so much about an argument I never even presented, I would figure your arms would be tired from lugging all those goalposts around.

While we're playing football, though, you are forgetting that you can and are clearly encouraged to own multiple homes. So even if you're buying 300 achievement pieces/trees and bushes, you're still looking at grinding for years for the mats to make all the furniture which isn't available from a vendor. Never mind when they come out with new houses from new zones, like the ones that were datamined to be coming with Vvardenfell.

You clearly have some critical thinking skills, try using them to honestly evaluate the argument next time instead of just looking for ways to deride the poster.

STEVIL · February 2017

Recremen wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

parkham wrote: »

Why can't you take it easy and slow? This is tantamount to any new technology being released. There's a mad rush for it at the beginning and prices are exorbitant. After six months everything levels out. That's what I was referring to in regards to the whole housing furniture plans and materials concern that people are having.

I just don't see it as a problem. I perceive this as players wanting stuff and wanting it now. That's why I urge patience and to take it easy. It'll get there.

@parkham

Then your perceptions are off. I don't "want it now". I want it achievable in a reasonable amount of time. At current drop rates I would have to spend several hours just farming materials every single day for the next two years to fully furnish a large house with my own crafted furniture. That's silly. You can buy multiple houses. You should be able to furnish multiple houses. It's something that should be personally achievable if you put the hours in, but we are in a situation where the furniture materials drop so infrequently that you don't actually have enough hours in a year to accomplish what you're after.

Think of it this way: if you were given a sturdy pickaxe you could eventually build a path through a mountain. It would just take your whole darn life to do it. But if you were given proper drilling tools, you could build that same path in much less time, and everyone would be happier for it. You'd still be putting in work, but you wouldn't look like an idiot grinding away your life for no reason. You are basically saying "the pickaxe is more noble" but it's just not true, it's literally a time-waster.

yes but... you should be blaming yourself for it taking so long, not ZoS.

We agree on one part - i agree with you that its silly.

its silly to decide to limit yourself to only using furnishing with your own crafted gear exclusively for a large home AND expect that to happen in anything like a "reasonable" amount of time.

Fully outfitting a large house - lets compare that to getting top class gear - 9 trait sets -
Learning 9 traits on 7 different slots plus one to four more slolts for weapon/shield - that took how long exactly?

In-game you have the ability to buy completed furnishings from the NPC vendors for gold at quite reasonable prices for normal stuff and exorbitant prices for top stuff.

In game, you have the ability to buy completed furnishings from guild stores in all sorts of quantities and a wide variety of prices and qualities - and those are going down quickly.

take a large house at 1.2mil.
that can have on ESO+ 600 furnishings.
from the NPCV vendors you could buy 200 of the 100g furnishings. 200 of the 250g furnishings and 200 of the 400g furnishings for 150k.
that is only 12.5% of the cost of the unfurnished house. obviously if one can afford the house that much furnishing is with the possible range of gold earnings.

had they put in place a system where the only way to get furniture for your house was to craft it, then your presumption of how long it should take would have some merit.

But, when you start your "estimation" with after i throw out all the other easy and quick options and limit myself to only this one option... the recipient of your conclusion - in this case "silly" - has to shift from "the system" to "the decision maker."

They introduced a system with three in-game mechanisms for how to furnihs your home:
Easy, quick, reliably unlimited and relatively cheap vendor furnishings (with some more expensive options behind achievements)
Player governed Guild trading - driven by the masses - and so variably in reliability and price.
Slower, grind and skill driven self-crafting.

to decide to throw out the first two and then use your time estimate for how long it would take to determine the time frame is out of whack is nonsense.

Even if you go the entirely self-crafted route, you can speed it up immensely at great cost by guild store buying of the mats. Again that would be your choice shifting away from purchased furnishings to purchased mats but self-crafted furnishings - pricey but also very timely.

They, ZoS put in a system where there are multiple ways to go about getting furnishings for your home. Some are quick, some are cheap, some take lots of time, some take lotsa gold... a mix-n-match multi-pronged approach will easily get the job done in something like "a reasonable amount of time" - without a single crown being spent.

if you stop tieing both hands behind your back and one foot to your thigh you may find your progress in the foot race to be more to your liking.

try this on for size:
Figure you take 5% of the value of your large homer to the npc vendors and buy 40% of your max ESO+ allotments. that is a few hours game time if you are slow. maybe 240 furnishings.

Then take 5% of the price of your home to guild vendors and buy various specific furnishings not available from the NPC vendors. lets say they run 10x the cost of the more routine things you bought - thats another 24 furnishings of more significant quality and decor.

The take 2.5% to the guild stores to buy the extra mats for crafting that you are having the most trouble finding or have the most need for. Enough to get you going with a little steam

then harvest and gather and craft etc to start filling in the rest of what you want.

I think many "reasonable" folks would see that time table and immediate move to sufficient then progress to better more desirable end stage as quite definitely sufficiently active and rewarding - if they were the type to buy a large house in the first place.

but the decision that housing is worth outlaying 1.2m in gold but not worth spending a dime on furnishing and then using that as basis for how fast crafting needs to be - that is - how did you put it - yeah - agreed - silly.

@STEVIL

The reason I chose to talk about fully-furnishing a large house on your own is because it is demonstrative of the problem as a whole, not because I'm somehow ignorant of the other ways to get furnishings or "silly" enough to not put trees in my backyard. I don't know how you managed to type so much about an argument I never even presented, I would figure your arms would be tired from lugging all those goalposts around.

While we're playing football, though, you are forgetting that you can and are clearly encouraged to own multiple homes. So even if you're buying 300 achievement pieces/trees and bushes, you're still looking at grinding for years for the mats to make all the furniture which isn't available from a vendor. Never mind when they come out with new houses from new zones, like the ones that were datamined to be coming with Vvardenfell.

You clearly have some critical thinking skills, try using them to honestly evaluate the argument next time instead of just looking for ways to deride the poster.

the example chosen was outfitting a large home with only crafted items and the time it takes.

i dealt with why that argument did not support that the timeframe of the system is silly - because it chose a quite large example and then limited it only to a small slowest part of the acquisition options available. the "silly" as i pointed out was in the constraints imposed by the hypothetical player in the example, not the system.

Now tho you seem to be moving the goal posts?

You seem to have moved away from "how long it will take to get a house going" to something like or akin to "how long will i be playing housing" including purchasing multiple houses, purchasing more houses maybe not even out yet that come some time in the future, making all the furniture that isn't available from a vendor (tho frankly you are not clear whether you mean guuild vendors which have most everything - are you still choosing to throw that option out?) and so on.

So let me be clear what i think is a rational pair of dissonant thoughts:

The amount of time it take to furnish a home to a "state of readiness" using all the in-game options available to you - both the slow and the fast - is a reasonable thing to think should be possible in a "reasonable" amount of time.

Now, reasonable folks can disagree on what reasonable means. In this case, i am personally VERY GLAD that with casual play and routine shopping and gathering and crafting and no actual "just grinding" time a home may be able to get to a "state of readiness" in a couple months. i am so very very glad this wont be like a lot of their other content - done in days - speed trial for the win videos on youtube the day of release. it will be a steady progress unless of course you throw lots of gold and time and such at it in which case it can get done failry quickly - at the "get a house ready" stage.

(i personally doubt i will ever get a house to max furnishings - well excluding things like "i use my free inn room to store the stupid books i double purchases volumes of - abd more likely will be replacing earlier furnihsings with later ones more often than not.

Now for the second dissonant thought.

the amount of time one can spend and enjoy playing with housing, continuing to do more with it, make more changes, craft more stuff, buy more homes, buy more homes not yet out in lands not yet seen, make more new furnishings for them and so on... its reasonable to not only have that be an incredibly long time but to want it to be that way. basically this is saying "i want to be able to keep playing it with more to do for a very very very long time"

this is so that the content is one you can play and enjoy not just for a few weeks or months as you run a few different character thru the DLC quests or daily repeatables - but as you say with more houses and more new zones houses and more new styles of furnishings etc etc etc.

So when you shift from portraying it as so out of whack how long it takes to get a house blah blah to how there are more houses to buy and more to come and you can be busy at this for so long...

Well you just changed from a "things" where you do want a "reasonably short" timeframe (days to weeks to months depending on options you choose and resources you bring to the table) to one where you want it to be "as long as possible maybe never ending."

that is a pair of things that ought not to be married together in a one-sided argument.

the fact that you might want to own multiple homes and so on, might want to buy homes in other zones and morrowind etc - that is not a good argument for how quickly housing needs be "done'.

Lotsa options for how to approach the content. Each will choose what appeals to them and make their own choices. but if your hang up is mats, every active guild store i looked at in the last week iirc had these mats on sale. Gold is not hard to farm - right? So maybe if your own crafting furnishing harvesting isn't meeting your needs, if your gold harvesting is better - harvest the gold and buy the mats from those who do harvest enough to sell.

But if its your choices that limit the rate of progress to less than you prefer - then its not the system or the design thats at fault.

i mean, i can be upset that my decision not to run VMOL trials results in me not getting the stuff that drops there - but to then say its because the system is silly?

nah not for my way of thinking.

And oh yeah BTW getting back on self-limiting choices...

" So even if you're buying 300 achievement pieces/trees and bushes, "

yeah well but see... one of my homes is entirely illuminated on its interior portion (sleek house) with achievement lighting - eight colovian projection stones attached to each support pillar and that gives the room a wonderful look. Was not cheap but hey, it was worth it.

If you limit what you see in "achievement" pieces too much, think of them as you described you may avoid finding some of the wonderful option they have. one of the first things i did was hit al the zones achievement vendors and other vendors like mage guilds and stuff. tons of zone by zone variety. Definitely time well spent.

YMMV and of course not everyone wants the same thing or expects the same thing to get done in the same time and all that jazz...

but let me end with this... soon to be added to my sig...

One can always ask "what does it do for me?" and get a very small picture of anything.
One can also always ask "what can i do with it or what can i get out of it?" and often get a much broader, richer more robust perspective.

The one's looking at housing now and asking the latter are gonna be the ones ahead of the curve.

In homestead housing is potential - potential fun, potential use, potential gains - and like all potential it requires creativity, time and effort to turn it from potential into reality and some will choose to do so and others won't.

Recremen · February 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

parkham wrote: »

Why can't you take it easy and slow? This is tantamount to any new technology being released. There's a mad rush for it at the beginning and prices are exorbitant. After six months everything levels out. That's what I was referring to in regards to the whole housing furniture plans and materials concern that people are having.

I just don't see it as a problem. I perceive this as players wanting stuff and wanting it now. That's why I urge patience and to take it easy. It'll get there.

@parkham

Then your perceptions are off. I don't "want it now". I want it achievable in a reasonable amount of time. At current drop rates I would have to spend several hours just farming materials every single day for the next two years to fully furnish a large house with my own crafted furniture. That's silly. You can buy multiple houses. You should be able to furnish multiple houses. It's something that should be personally achievable if you put the hours in, but we are in a situation where the furniture materials drop so infrequently that you don't actually have enough hours in a year to accomplish what you're after.

Think of it this way: if you were given a sturdy pickaxe you could eventually build a path through a mountain. It would just take your whole darn life to do it. But if you were given proper drilling tools, you could build that same path in much less time, and everyone would be happier for it. You'd still be putting in work, but you wouldn't look like an idiot grinding away your life for no reason. You are basically saying "the pickaxe is more noble" but it's just not true, it's literally a time-waster.

yes but... you should be blaming yourself for it taking so long, not ZoS.

We agree on one part - i agree with you that its silly.

its silly to decide to limit yourself to only using furnishing with your own crafted gear exclusively for a large home AND expect that to happen in anything like a "reasonable" amount of time.

Fully outfitting a large house - lets compare that to getting top class gear - 9 trait sets -
Learning 9 traits on 7 different slots plus one to four more slolts for weapon/shield - that took how long exactly?

In-game you have the ability to buy completed furnishings from the NPC vendors for gold at quite reasonable prices for normal stuff and exorbitant prices for top stuff.

In game, you have the ability to buy completed furnishings from guild stores in all sorts of quantities and a wide variety of prices and qualities - and those are going down quickly.

take a large house at 1.2mil.
that can have on ESO+ 600 furnishings.
from the NPCV vendors you could buy 200 of the 100g furnishings. 200 of the 250g furnishings and 200 of the 400g furnishings for 150k.
that is only 12.5% of the cost of the unfurnished house. obviously if one can afford the house that much furnishing is with the possible range of gold earnings.

had they put in place a system where the only way to get furniture for your house was to craft it, then your presumption of how long it should take would have some merit.

But, when you start your "estimation" with after i throw out all the other easy and quick options and limit myself to only this one option... the recipient of your conclusion - in this case "silly" - has to shift from "the system" to "the decision maker."

They introduced a system with three in-game mechanisms for how to furnihs your home:
Easy, quick, reliably unlimited and relatively cheap vendor furnishings (with some more expensive options behind achievements)
Player governed Guild trading - driven by the masses - and so variably in reliability and price.
Slower, grind and skill driven self-crafting.

to decide to throw out the first two and then use your time estimate for how long it would take to determine the time frame is out of whack is nonsense.

Even if you go the entirely self-crafted route, you can speed it up immensely at great cost by guild store buying of the mats. Again that would be your choice shifting away from purchased furnishings to purchased mats but self-crafted furnishings - pricey but also very timely.

They, ZoS put in a system where there are multiple ways to go about getting furnishings for your home. Some are quick, some are cheap, some take lots of time, some take lotsa gold... a mix-n-match multi-pronged approach will easily get the job done in something like "a reasonable amount of time" - without a single crown being spent.

if you stop tieing both hands behind your back and one foot to your thigh you may find your progress in the foot race to be more to your liking.

try this on for size:
Figure you take 5% of the value of your large homer to the npc vendors and buy 40% of your max ESO+ allotments. that is a few hours game time if you are slow. maybe 240 furnishings.

Then take 5% of the price of your home to guild vendors and buy various specific furnishings not available from the NPC vendors. lets say they run 10x the cost of the more routine things you bought - thats another 24 furnishings of more significant quality and decor.

The take 2.5% to the guild stores to buy the extra mats for crafting that you are having the most trouble finding or have the most need for. Enough to get you going with a little steam

then harvest and gather and craft etc to start filling in the rest of what you want.

I think many "reasonable" folks would see that time table and immediate move to sufficient then progress to better more desirable end stage as quite definitely sufficiently active and rewarding - if they were the type to buy a large house in the first place.

but the decision that housing is worth outlaying 1.2m in gold but not worth spending a dime on furnishing and then using that as basis for how fast crafting needs to be - that is - how did you put it - yeah - agreed - silly.

@STEVIL

The reason I chose to talk about fully-furnishing a large house on your own is because it is demonstrative of the problem as a whole, not because I'm somehow ignorant of the other ways to get furnishings or "silly" enough to not put trees in my backyard. I don't know how you managed to type so much about an argument I never even presented, I would figure your arms would be tired from lugging all those goalposts around.

While we're playing football, though, you are forgetting that you can and are clearly encouraged to own multiple homes. So even if you're buying 300 achievement pieces/trees and bushes, you're still looking at grinding for years for the mats to make all the furniture which isn't available from a vendor. Never mind when they come out with new houses from new zones, like the ones that were datamined to be coming with Vvardenfell.

You clearly have some critical thinking skills, try using them to honestly evaluate the argument next time instead of just looking for ways to deride the poster.

the example chosen was outfitting a large home with only crafted items and the time it takes.

i dealt with why that argument did not support that the timeframe of the system is silly - because it chose a quite large example and then limited it only to a small slowest part of the acquisition options available. the "silly" as i pointed out was in the constraints imposed by the hypothetical player in the example, not the system.

Now tho you seem to be moving the goal posts?

You seem to have moved away from "how long it will take to get a house going" to something like or akin to "how long will i be playing housing" including purchasing multiple houses, purchasing more houses maybe not even out yet that come some time in the future, making all the furniture that isn't available from a vendor (tho frankly you are not clear whether you mean guuild vendors which have most everything - are you still choosing to throw that option out?) and so on.

So let me be clear what i think is a rational pair of dissonant thoughts:

The amount of time it take to furnish a home to a "state of readiness" using all the in-game options available to you - both the slow and the fast - is a reasonable thing to think should be possible in a "reasonable" amount of time.

Now, reasonable folks can disagree on what reasonable means. In this case, i am personally VERY GLAD that with casual play and routine shopping and gathering and crafting and no actual "just grinding" time a home may be able to get to a "state of readiness" in a couple months. i am so very very glad this wont be like a lot of their other content - done in days - speed trial for the win videos on youtube the day of release. it will be a steady progress unless of course you throw lots of gold and time and such at it in which case it can get done failry quickly - at the "get a house ready" stage.

(i personally doubt i will ever get a house to max furnishings - well excluding things like "i use my free inn room to store the stupid books i double purchases volumes of - abd more likely will be replacing earlier furnihsings with later ones more often than not.

Now for the second dissonant thought.

the amount of time one can spend and enjoy playing with housing, continuing to do more with it, make more changes, craft more stuff, buy more homes, buy more homes not yet out in lands not yet seen, make more new furnishings for them and so on... its reasonable to not only have that be an incredibly long time but to want it to be that way. basically this is saying "i want to be able to keep playing it with more to do for a very very very long time"

this is so that the content is one you can play and enjoy not just for a few weeks or months as you run a few different character thru the DLC quests or daily repeatables - but as you say with more houses and more new zones houses and more new styles of furnishings etc etc etc.

So when you shift from portraying it as so out of whack how long it takes to get a house blah blah to how there are more houses to buy and more to come and you can be busy at this for so long...

Well you just changed from a "things" where you do want a "reasonably short" timeframe (days to weeks to months depending on options you choose and resources you bring to the table) to one where you want it to be "as long as possible maybe never ending."

that is a pair of things that ought not to be married together in a one-sided argument.

the fact that you might want to own multiple homes and so on, might want to buy homes in other zones and morrowind etc - that is not a good argument for how quickly housing needs be "done'.

Lotsa options for how to approach the content. Each will choose what appeals to them and make their own choices. but if your hang up is mats, every active guild store i looked at in the last week iirc had these mats on sale. Gold is not hard to farm - right? So maybe if your own crafting furnishing harvesting isn't meeting your needs, if your gold harvesting is better - harvest the gold and buy the mats from those who do harvest enough to sell.

But if its your choices that limit the rate of progress to less than you prefer - then its not the system or the design thats at fault.

i mean, i can be upset that my decision not to run VMOL trials results in me not getting the stuff that drops there - but to then say its because the system is silly?

nah not for my way of thinking.

Honey "moving the goalposts" is a phrase that has actual meaning, you can't just throw it out there in a nonsensical fashion like that. You completely misread the message of the post and have gone off on a tangent I never supported. I never implied that the topic at hand was "getting a house going", it has consistently been about furniture crafting, and all illustrative examples have been used to demonstrate how inaccessible furniture crafting is. That is why you mentioning all the different, non-crafting ways to furnish your home is irrelevant to the topic at hand, and why I said you moved the goalposts. You are arguing in bad faith against a position I never took. The only reason I even brought up multiple houses was to demonstrate to you what having the goalposts moved feels like, which apparently has just gone unironically zipping over your head.

Incidentally, trial loot has been adjusted, and repeatedly at that, since it was found to take too long to get a full set of good gear. For your analogy to work, I would have to not be trying to farm materials and also complaining about how they don't drop for me. That is asinine and not what is happening. I have been farming for mats, noticed the abysmal drop rate, and am making the case to ZOS like many others before me that we are not at a player-friendly happy medium. Much like the changes to trials drops, I anticipate that they will indeed take such feedback into consideration and adjust accordingly.

Alpharos7 · February 2017

So here is my two cents on this issue.

Furniture crafting needs a lot of work. End of. Housing in general is fantastic, but I for one can not even consider trying to craft my own furniture as it is just so difficult and takes so much time. The mats are nigh on impossible to get hold of, and the writs are not worth the bother.

I'd suggest making the following changes:
1) Majorly increase the chances of getting furniture mats and make them obtainable through deconstructing existing gear (armour, weapon and glyphs).
2) Introduce Daily Master Writ - these can be done at any level and can be of any crafting type (set at random), but will scale to the rank unlocked of the specific armour and weapon craft picked. Upon completion, the reward will be a container holding furniture tokens (the amount is scaled to the level of the craft involved in the writ and is typically 100+) and a bag of furniture crafting mats (10-30 in total). This will ensure users are guaranteed a master writ once a day, making it a lot easier to buy the plans for the popular homestead items and will reward some mats to reduce the amount of grinding required. Master Writs can still been obtained through other writs, and with an increased chances, but with reward less vouchers than the daily.
3) Expand the content in the housing vendors - the basic furniture vendors have terrible selections of items for sale, forcing one to either grind for years for the appropriate plans and mats OR pay for furniture with crowns. Housing vendors should also sell furniture plans.

It's midnight here, please excuse me for any poor grammar aha. Furthermore, these may have been suggested previously, I am just too tired to check.

Tannus15 · February 2017

I'm with @STEVIL on this.

I'm looking at housing right now as ramp up time.
Gathering blueprints and making random items, learning what works and what doesn't.

Last night I did a pledge, did all my writs on all my characters, a few passes through anvil looking for new blueprints, and harvested a bunch of mats.

This allowed me to make 2 nord long counters, 1 wood elf counter, 2 high elf goblets, 1 dark elf candle stick, a breton starburst rug, a breton barrel rack, and a simple barrel.

Then I spent some time rearranging the furniture to start putting together a dining / kitchen area next to my workshop room. It's starting to look good.

This was just one evening of play.

I'm now starting to get a good bit of Regulus and mundane runes banked away. I'm still burning through heartwood and bast at a phenomenal rate, but either I got very lucky last night, or they have quietly bumped up the drop rate.

I haven't bought ANY achievement items yet (I spent literally all my gold on Mathiisen Manor). Oh, that's a lie, I bought the Auridon books to try out my high elf verdant bookshelf that I crafted the other night. OMG placing books is a pain.

Give me a few months and I have no doubt that my house will be coming together nicely, certainly the ground floor will be done.

tunepunk · February 2017

Just wait a few months. Guild traders will have lots of blueprints and stuff at much lower prices than now.

Sell all the blueprints you don't want. Use the gold to buy the ones you want.

Right now guild trader prices are ridiculous so waiting patiently for prices to go down, and focusing on getting gold and nodes now.

STEVIL · February 2017

Recremen wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

parkham wrote: »

Why can't you take it easy and slow? This is tantamount to any new technology being released. There's a mad rush for it at the beginning and prices are exorbitant. After six months everything levels out. That's what I was referring to in regards to the whole housing furniture plans and materials concern that people are having.

I just don't see it as a problem. I perceive this as players wanting stuff and wanting it now. That's why I urge patience and to take it easy. It'll get there.

@parkham

Then your perceptions are off. I don't "want it now". I want it achievable in a reasonable amount of time. At current drop rates I would have to spend several hours just farming materials every single day for the next two years to fully furnish a large house with my own crafted furniture. That's silly. You can buy multiple houses. You should be able to furnish multiple houses. It's something that should be personally achievable if you put the hours in, but we are in a situation where the furniture materials drop so infrequently that you don't actually have enough hours in a year to accomplish what you're after.

Think of it this way: if you were given a sturdy pickaxe you could eventually build a path through a mountain. It would just take your whole darn life to do it. But if you were given proper drilling tools, you could build that same path in much less time, and everyone would be happier for it. You'd still be putting in work, but you wouldn't look like an idiot grinding away your life for no reason. You are basically saying "the pickaxe is more noble" but it's just not true, it's literally a time-waster.

yes but... you should be blaming yourself for it taking so long, not ZoS.

We agree on one part - i agree with you that its silly.

its silly to decide to limit yourself to only using furnishing with your own crafted gear exclusively for a large home AND expect that to happen in anything like a "reasonable" amount of time.

Fully outfitting a large house - lets compare that to getting top class gear - 9 trait sets -
Learning 9 traits on 7 different slots plus one to four more slolts for weapon/shield - that took how long exactly?

In-game you have the ability to buy completed furnishings from the NPC vendors for gold at quite reasonable prices for normal stuff and exorbitant prices for top stuff.

In game, you have the ability to buy completed furnishings from guild stores in all sorts of quantities and a wide variety of prices and qualities - and those are going down quickly.

take a large house at 1.2mil.
that can have on ESO+ 600 furnishings.
from the NPCV vendors you could buy 200 of the 100g furnishings. 200 of the 250g furnishings and 200 of the 400g furnishings for 150k.
that is only 12.5% of the cost of the unfurnished house. obviously if one can afford the house that much furnishing is with the possible range of gold earnings.

had they put in place a system where the only way to get furniture for your house was to craft it, then your presumption of how long it should take would have some merit.

But, when you start your "estimation" with after i throw out all the other easy and quick options and limit myself to only this one option... the recipient of your conclusion - in this case "silly" - has to shift from "the system" to "the decision maker."

They introduced a system with three in-game mechanisms for how to furnihs your home:
Easy, quick, reliably unlimited and relatively cheap vendor furnishings (with some more expensive options behind achievements)
Player governed Guild trading - driven by the masses - and so variably in reliability and price.
Slower, grind and skill driven self-crafting.

to decide to throw out the first two and then use your time estimate for how long it would take to determine the time frame is out of whack is nonsense.

Even if you go the entirely self-crafted route, you can speed it up immensely at great cost by guild store buying of the mats. Again that would be your choice shifting away from purchased furnishings to purchased mats but self-crafted furnishings - pricey but also very timely.

They, ZoS put in a system where there are multiple ways to go about getting furnishings for your home. Some are quick, some are cheap, some take lots of time, some take lotsa gold... a mix-n-match multi-pronged approach will easily get the job done in something like "a reasonable amount of time" - without a single crown being spent.

if you stop tieing both hands behind your back and one foot to your thigh you may find your progress in the foot race to be more to your liking.

try this on for size:
Figure you take 5% of the value of your large homer to the npc vendors and buy 40% of your max ESO+ allotments. that is a few hours game time if you are slow. maybe 240 furnishings.

Then take 5% of the price of your home to guild vendors and buy various specific furnishings not available from the NPC vendors. lets say they run 10x the cost of the more routine things you bought - thats another 24 furnishings of more significant quality and decor.

The take 2.5% to the guild stores to buy the extra mats for crafting that you are having the most trouble finding or have the most need for. Enough to get you going with a little steam

then harvest and gather and craft etc to start filling in the rest of what you want.

I think many "reasonable" folks would see that time table and immediate move to sufficient then progress to better more desirable end stage as quite definitely sufficiently active and rewarding - if they were the type to buy a large house in the first place.

but the decision that housing is worth outlaying 1.2m in gold but not worth spending a dime on furnishing and then using that as basis for how fast crafting needs to be - that is - how did you put it - yeah - agreed - silly.

@STEVIL

The reason I chose to talk about fully-furnishing a large house on your own is because it is demonstrative of the problem as a whole, not because I'm somehow ignorant of the other ways to get furnishings or "silly" enough to not put trees in my backyard. I don't know how you managed to type so much about an argument I never even presented, I would figure your arms would be tired from lugging all those goalposts around.

While we're playing football, though, you are forgetting that you can and are clearly encouraged to own multiple homes. So even if you're buying 300 achievement pieces/trees and bushes, you're still looking at grinding for years for the mats to make all the furniture which isn't available from a vendor. Never mind when they come out with new houses from new zones, like the ones that were datamined to be coming with Vvardenfell.

You clearly have some critical thinking skills, try using them to honestly evaluate the argument next time instead of just looking for ways to deride the poster.

the example chosen was outfitting a large home with only crafted items and the time it takes.

i dealt with why that argument did not support that the timeframe of the system is silly - because it chose a quite large example and then limited it only to a small slowest part of the acquisition options available. the "silly" as i pointed out was in the constraints imposed by the hypothetical player in the example, not the system.

Now tho you seem to be moving the goal posts?

You seem to have moved away from "how long it will take to get a house going" to something like or akin to "how long will i be playing housing" including purchasing multiple houses, purchasing more houses maybe not even out yet that come some time in the future, making all the furniture that isn't available from a vendor (tho frankly you are not clear whether you mean guuild vendors which have most everything - are you still choosing to throw that option out?) and so on.

So let me be clear what i think is a rational pair of dissonant thoughts:

The amount of time it take to furnish a home to a "state of readiness" using all the in-game options available to you - both the slow and the fast - is a reasonable thing to think should be possible in a "reasonable" amount of time.

Now, reasonable folks can disagree on what reasonable means. In this case, i am personally VERY GLAD that with casual play and routine shopping and gathering and crafting and no actual "just grinding" time a home may be able to get to a "state of readiness" in a couple months. i am so very very glad this wont be like a lot of their other content - done in days - speed trial for the win videos on youtube the day of release. it will be a steady progress unless of course you throw lots of gold and time and such at it in which case it can get done failry quickly - at the "get a house ready" stage.

(i personally doubt i will ever get a house to max furnishings - well excluding things like "i use my free inn room to store the stupid books i double purchases volumes of - abd more likely will be replacing earlier furnihsings with later ones more often than not.

Now for the second dissonant thought.

the amount of time one can spend and enjoy playing with housing, continuing to do more with it, make more changes, craft more stuff, buy more homes, buy more homes not yet out in lands not yet seen, make more new furnishings for them and so on... its reasonable to not only have that be an incredibly long time but to want it to be that way. basically this is saying "i want to be able to keep playing it with more to do for a very very very long time"

this is so that the content is one you can play and enjoy not just for a few weeks or months as you run a few different character thru the DLC quests or daily repeatables - but as you say with more houses and more new zones houses and more new styles of furnishings etc etc etc.

So when you shift from portraying it as so out of whack how long it takes to get a house blah blah to how there are more houses to buy and more to come and you can be busy at this for so long...

Well you just changed from a "things" where you do want a "reasonably short" timeframe (days to weeks to months depending on options you choose and resources you bring to the table) to one where you want it to be "as long as possible maybe never ending."

that is a pair of things that ought not to be married together in a one-sided argument.

the fact that you might want to own multiple homes and so on, might want to buy homes in other zones and morrowind etc - that is not a good argument for how quickly housing needs be "done'.

Lotsa options for how to approach the content. Each will choose what appeals to them and make their own choices. but if your hang up is mats, every active guild store i looked at in the last week iirc had these mats on sale. Gold is not hard to farm - right? So maybe if your own crafting furnishing harvesting isn't meeting your needs, if your gold harvesting is better - harvest the gold and buy the mats from those who do harvest enough to sell.

But if its your choices that limit the rate of progress to less than you prefer - then its not the system or the design thats at fault.

i mean, i can be upset that my decision not to run VMOL trials results in me not getting the stuff that drops there - but to then say its because the system is silly?

nah not for my way of thinking.

Honey "moving the goalposts" is a phrase that has actual meaning, you can't just throw it out there in a nonsensical fashion like that. You completely misread the message of the post and have gone off on a tangent I never supported. I never implied that the topic at hand was "getting a house going", it has consistently been about furniture crafting, and all illustrative examples have been used to demonstrate how inaccessible furniture crafting is. That is why you mentioning all the different, non-crafting ways to furnish your home is irrelevant to the topic at hand, and why I said you moved the goalposts. You are arguing in bad faith against a position I never took. The only reason I even brought up multiple houses was to demonstrate to you what having the goalposts moved feels like, which apparently has just gone unironically zipping over your head.

Incidentally, trial loot has been adjusted, and repeatedly at that, since it was found to take too long to get a full set of good gear. For your analogy to work, I would have to not be trying to farm materials and also complaining about how they don't drop for me. That is asinine and not what is happening. I have been farming for mats, noticed the abysmal drop rate, and am making the case to ZOS like many others before me that we are not at a player-friendly happy medium. Much like the changes to trials drops, I anticipate that they will indeed take such feedback into consideration and adjust accordingly.

OK SO FIRST - i am not nor will i ever be your "honey". When used to a stranger it is typically viewed as dismissive. please do not continue that practice with me.

Second i like how your post flaws when pointed out were retro-actively caused by me in your "The Stevil made me do it" sort of world. Hilarious. Flip would be proud.

Third, you were the one who chose to bring up how long it will take to fully furnish a house by crafting alone to support whatever claim of "inaccessibility". You tied "time to get to fully furnished" to your "inaccessibly". You tied "rate" to your conclusion.

Every time however the point is made that getting to that point is not limited to crafting - you throw that out.

Not getting somewhere quickly enough by walking to suit you doesn't mean or support the argument that you should move closer - it may simply mean you should drive, ride a bike or take a better route. if you tell someone they should move because it takes you too long to walk there, dont get upset when they suggest you get a bike, drive a car or cut across the park instead of walking around the long way.

it would take a whole lot longer to run a marathon if your feet were tied together and a bowling ball latched on as well. but that does not mean how long it takes to run a marathon under those conditions supports making the bowling ball lighter.

if you walk into a mountain top villa and step into the closet and complain that the view from the closed closet is bad... that doesn't mean the house needs more windows. just that your expectations of the closets is a bit off.

And one more point - inaccessible means something. it means inacccesible - unable to access -

it does not mean "unable to fully complete." which again was the case you tried to make.

So, now, after choosing to use "fully furnishing a house with crafting" and how long that would take to try and establish support to then retro-shuffle back to "its about inaccessible" is rhetoric to make Good George O proud.

As others have pointed out in this thread and others, you can get into furniture crafting, its not that hard and while the pacing is slow (depending on what choices you make) progress is rather obvious. i am certain things will be tweaked and so on and i hope for one they dont turn it into yet another quickie content done quick sort of thing.

But clearly we both have different expectations as to what we expected or wanted in our own closets...

But for me with two weeks in and tons of mats and furnishings and plans in the guild stores - inaccessible would not be the word i would use.

Recremen · February 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

parkham wrote: »

Why can't you take it easy and slow? This is tantamount to any new technology being released. There's a mad rush for it at the beginning and prices are exorbitant. After six months everything levels out. That's what I was referring to in regards to the whole housing furniture plans and materials concern that people are having.

I just don't see it as a problem. I perceive this as players wanting stuff and wanting it now. That's why I urge patience and to take it easy. It'll get there.

@parkham

Then your perceptions are off. I don't "want it now". I want it achievable in a reasonable amount of time. At current drop rates I would have to spend several hours just farming materials every single day for the next two years to fully furnish a large house with my own crafted furniture. That's silly. You can buy multiple houses. You should be able to furnish multiple houses. It's something that should be personally achievable if you put the hours in, but we are in a situation where the furniture materials drop so infrequently that you don't actually have enough hours in a year to accomplish what you're after.

Think of it this way: if you were given a sturdy pickaxe you could eventually build a path through a mountain. It would just take your whole darn life to do it. But if you were given proper drilling tools, you could build that same path in much less time, and everyone would be happier for it. You'd still be putting in work, but you wouldn't look like an idiot grinding away your life for no reason. You are basically saying "the pickaxe is more noble" but it's just not true, it's literally a time-waster.

yes but... you should be blaming yourself for it taking so long, not ZoS.

We agree on one part - i agree with you that its silly.

its silly to decide to limit yourself to only using furnishing with your own crafted gear exclusively for a large home AND expect that to happen in anything like a "reasonable" amount of time.

Fully outfitting a large house - lets compare that to getting top class gear - 9 trait sets -
Learning 9 traits on 7 different slots plus one to four more slolts for weapon/shield - that took how long exactly?

In-game you have the ability to buy completed furnishings from the NPC vendors for gold at quite reasonable prices for normal stuff and exorbitant prices for top stuff.

In game, you have the ability to buy completed furnishings from guild stores in all sorts of quantities and a wide variety of prices and qualities - and those are going down quickly.

take a large house at 1.2mil.
that can have on ESO+ 600 furnishings.
from the NPCV vendors you could buy 200 of the 100g furnishings. 200 of the 250g furnishings and 200 of the 400g furnishings for 150k.
that is only 12.5% of the cost of the unfurnished house. obviously if one can afford the house that much furnishing is with the possible range of gold earnings.

had they put in place a system where the only way to get furniture for your house was to craft it, then your presumption of how long it should take would have some merit.

But, when you start your "estimation" with after i throw out all the other easy and quick options and limit myself to only this one option... the recipient of your conclusion - in this case "silly" - has to shift from "the system" to "the decision maker."

They introduced a system with three in-game mechanisms for how to furnihs your home:
Easy, quick, reliably unlimited and relatively cheap vendor furnishings (with some more expensive options behind achievements)
Player governed Guild trading - driven by the masses - and so variably in reliability and price.
Slower, grind and skill driven self-crafting.

to decide to throw out the first two and then use your time estimate for how long it would take to determine the time frame is out of whack is nonsense.

Even if you go the entirely self-crafted route, you can speed it up immensely at great cost by guild store buying of the mats. Again that would be your choice shifting away from purchased furnishings to purchased mats but self-crafted furnishings - pricey but also very timely.

They, ZoS put in a system where there are multiple ways to go about getting furnishings for your home. Some are quick, some are cheap, some take lots of time, some take lotsa gold... a mix-n-match multi-pronged approach will easily get the job done in something like "a reasonable amount of time" - without a single crown being spent.

if you stop tieing both hands behind your back and one foot to your thigh you may find your progress in the foot race to be more to your liking.

try this on for size:
Figure you take 5% of the value of your large homer to the npc vendors and buy 40% of your max ESO+ allotments. that is a few hours game time if you are slow. maybe 240 furnishings.

Then take 5% of the price of your home to guild vendors and buy various specific furnishings not available from the NPC vendors. lets say they run 10x the cost of the more routine things you bought - thats another 24 furnishings of more significant quality and decor.

The take 2.5% to the guild stores to buy the extra mats for crafting that you are having the most trouble finding or have the most need for. Enough to get you going with a little steam

then harvest and gather and craft etc to start filling in the rest of what you want.

I think many "reasonable" folks would see that time table and immediate move to sufficient then progress to better more desirable end stage as quite definitely sufficiently active and rewarding - if they were the type to buy a large house in the first place.

but the decision that housing is worth outlaying 1.2m in gold but not worth spending a dime on furnishing and then using that as basis for how fast crafting needs to be - that is - how did you put it - yeah - agreed - silly.

@STEVIL

The reason I chose to talk about fully-furnishing a large house on your own is because it is demonstrative of the problem as a whole, not because I'm somehow ignorant of the other ways to get furnishings or "silly" enough to not put trees in my backyard. I don't know how you managed to type so much about an argument I never even presented, I would figure your arms would be tired from lugging all those goalposts around.

While we're playing football, though, you are forgetting that you can and are clearly encouraged to own multiple homes. So even if you're buying 300 achievement pieces/trees and bushes, you're still looking at grinding for years for the mats to make all the furniture which isn't available from a vendor. Never mind when they come out with new houses from new zones, like the ones that were datamined to be coming with Vvardenfell.

You clearly have some critical thinking skills, try using them to honestly evaluate the argument next time instead of just looking for ways to deride the poster.

the example chosen was outfitting a large home with only crafted items and the time it takes.

i dealt with why that argument did not support that the timeframe of the system is silly - because it chose a quite large example and then limited it only to a small slowest part of the acquisition options available. the "silly" as i pointed out was in the constraints imposed by the hypothetical player in the example, not the system.

Now tho you seem to be moving the goal posts?

You seem to have moved away from "how long it will take to get a house going" to something like or akin to "how long will i be playing housing" including purchasing multiple houses, purchasing more houses maybe not even out yet that come some time in the future, making all the furniture that isn't available from a vendor (tho frankly you are not clear whether you mean guuild vendors which have most everything - are you still choosing to throw that option out?) and so on.

So let me be clear what i think is a rational pair of dissonant thoughts:

The amount of time it take to furnish a home to a "state of readiness" using all the in-game options available to you - both the slow and the fast - is a reasonable thing to think should be possible in a "reasonable" amount of time.

Now, reasonable folks can disagree on what reasonable means. In this case, i am personally VERY GLAD that with casual play and routine shopping and gathering and crafting and no actual "just grinding" time a home may be able to get to a "state of readiness" in a couple months. i am so very very glad this wont be like a lot of their other content - done in days - speed trial for the win videos on youtube the day of release. it will be a steady progress unless of course you throw lots of gold and time and such at it in which case it can get done failry quickly - at the "get a house ready" stage.

(i personally doubt i will ever get a house to max furnishings - well excluding things like "i use my free inn room to store the stupid books i double purchases volumes of - abd more likely will be replacing earlier furnihsings with later ones more often than not.

Now for the second dissonant thought.

the amount of time one can spend and enjoy playing with housing, continuing to do more with it, make more changes, craft more stuff, buy more homes, buy more homes not yet out in lands not yet seen, make more new furnishings for them and so on... its reasonable to not only have that be an incredibly long time but to want it to be that way. basically this is saying "i want to be able to keep playing it with more to do for a very very very long time"

this is so that the content is one you can play and enjoy not just for a few weeks or months as you run a few different character thru the DLC quests or daily repeatables - but as you say with more houses and more new zones houses and more new styles of furnishings etc etc etc.

So when you shift from portraying it as so out of whack how long it takes to get a house blah blah to how there are more houses to buy and more to come and you can be busy at this for so long...

Well you just changed from a "things" where you do want a "reasonably short" timeframe (days to weeks to months depending on options you choose and resources you bring to the table) to one where you want it to be "as long as possible maybe never ending."

that is a pair of things that ought not to be married together in a one-sided argument.

the fact that you might want to own multiple homes and so on, might want to buy homes in other zones and morrowind etc - that is not a good argument for how quickly housing needs be "done'.

Lotsa options for how to approach the content. Each will choose what appeals to them and make their own choices. but if your hang up is mats, every active guild store i looked at in the last week iirc had these mats on sale. Gold is not hard to farm - right? So maybe if your own crafting furnishing harvesting isn't meeting your needs, if your gold harvesting is better - harvest the gold and buy the mats from those who do harvest enough to sell.

But if its your choices that limit the rate of progress to less than you prefer - then its not the system or the design thats at fault.

i mean, i can be upset that my decision not to run VMOL trials results in me not getting the stuff that drops there - but to then say its because the system is silly?

nah not for my way of thinking.

Honey "moving the goalposts" is a phrase that has actual meaning, you can't just throw it out there in a nonsensical fashion like that. You completely misread the message of the post and have gone off on a tangent I never supported. I never implied that the topic at hand was "getting a house going", it has consistently been about furniture crafting, and all illustrative examples have been used to demonstrate how inaccessible furniture crafting is. That is why you mentioning all the different, non-crafting ways to furnish your home is irrelevant to the topic at hand, and why I said you moved the goalposts. You are arguing in bad faith against a position I never took. The only reason I even brought up multiple houses was to demonstrate to you what having the goalposts moved feels like, which apparently has just gone unironically zipping over your head.

Incidentally, trial loot has been adjusted, and repeatedly at that, since it was found to take too long to get a full set of good gear. For your analogy to work, I would have to not be trying to farm materials and also complaining about how they don't drop for me. That is asinine and not what is happening. I have been farming for mats, noticed the abysmal drop rate, and am making the case to ZOS like many others before me that we are not at a player-friendly happy medium. Much like the changes to trials drops, I anticipate that they will indeed take such feedback into consideration and adjust accordingly.

OK SO FIRST - i am not nor will i ever be your "honey". When used to a stranger it is typically viewed as dismissive. please do not continue that practice with me.

Second i like how your post flaws when pointed out were retro-actively caused by me in your "The Stevil made me do it" sort of world. Hilarious. Flip would be proud.

Third, you were the one who chose to bring up how long it will take to fully furnish a house by crafting alone to support whatever claim of "inaccessibility". You tied "time to get to fully furnished" to your "inaccessibly". You tied "rate" to your conclusion.

Every time however the point is made that getting to that point is not limited to crafting - you throw that out.

Not getting somewhere quickly enough by walking to suit you doesn't mean or support the argument that you should move closer - it may simply mean you should drive, ride a bike or take a better route. if you tell someone they should move because it takes you too long to walk there, dont get upset when they suggest you get a bike, drive a car or cut across the park instead of walking around the long way.

it would take a whole lot longer to run a marathon if your feet were tied together and a bowling ball latched on as well. but that does not mean how long it takes to run a marathon under those conditions supports making the bowling ball lighter.

if you walk into a mountain top villa and step into the closet and complain that the view from the closed closet is bad... that doesn't mean the house needs more windows. just that your expectations of the closets is a bit off.

And one more point - inaccessible means something. it means inacccesible - unable to access -

it does not mean "unable to fully complete." which again was the case you tried to make.

So, now, after choosing to use "fully furnishing a house with crafting" and how long that would take to try and establish support to then retro-shuffle back to "its about inaccessible" is rhetoric to make Good George O proud.

As others have pointed out in this thread and others, you can get into furniture crafting, its not that hard and while the pacing is slow (depending on what choices you make) progress is rather obvious. i am certain things will be tweaked and so on and i hope for one they dont turn it into yet another quickie content done quick sort of thing.

But clearly we both have different expectations as to what we expected or wanted in our own closets...

But for me with two weeks in and tons of mats and furnishings and plans in the guild stores - inaccessible would not be the word i would use.

Of course I was dismissive with you, you've been calling me silly for the whole thread based on nonsense arguments you invented, since clearly you don't have the rhetorical wherewithal to argue things I actually said, and instead have resorted to making up your own positions to argue against. You could have just presented your own opinion on how long you think gathering furniture materials should take, but instead you chose to try and attack me, flagrantly putting words in my mouth, and being just as dismissive. I have no idea why you are so aggressively wrong in all of your arguments or how you manage to be so long-winded while doing so. If you can't handle someone being so cavalier with you, then perhaps you should examine your own behavior and see if you intentionally instigated it. Sweetie.

Despite · February 2017

Considering how large house are and relatively easy it is to get a large house, crafting furniture should be more accessible.

I'm guessing it's not so they can sell it you in the crown store. -____-

Tannus15 · February 2017

Despite wrote: »

Considering how large house are and relatively easy it is to get a large house, crafting furniture should be more accessible.

I'm guessing it's not so they can sell it you in the crown store. -____-

I really don't understand where this logic jump comes from.

X is hard to get therefore crown store.

ESO has hard to get RNG and long wait times everywhere. It's like saying glass motifs are hard to get so they can sell more glass motif in the crown store.
Except they really aren't and buying them off guild vendors is pretty much the same cost and getting them from writs.

It's lucky they haven't put sharpened weapons in the crown store because that would be evidence of them deliberately making it hard to get sharpened weapons to make money in the crown store, and totally not how the game has been since forever.

It cannot be stated strongly enough. ZOS philosophy of end game == LOTS OF GRIND.

Think about it in every single area of the game. Huge quantities of grind. People have literally run VMA 1000+ times in hope of getting a sharpened inferno staff. Now you guys are all shocked and surprised that an end game mechanic, housing, involves LOTS OF GRIND and want to blame it on the crown store somehow.

And I'm sorry, when we're talking about 1,000,000+ gold housing, we're talking end game.

Wanderinlost · February 2017

Recremen wrote: »

Wanderinlost wrote: »

The problem people are having is they want to grind it out in a week

@Wanderinlost

I don't know how many times and ways I can say this, but the problem is not people wanting to grind it out in a week. I haven't seen anyone say that. I don't want it, my friends don't want it, my guild doesn't want it. We are talking about something that will take literal years, spending hours a day on it, just for a single large house, and instead of actually asking what kind of timeframe we think is appropriate you just make up "finish in a week"? Or did you just hear it from another naysayer on the forums, assume it was true, and come to counter a completely nonexistent argument? I truly don't know where this "finish it in a week" nonsense came from, nobody has ever said that except the people who apparently think that several years is OK to spend on furnishing one digital house with self-crafted furniture.

Its called hyperbole, and I didn't hear it from anyone. It is just a common and logical exaggeration that can be applied to many situations when people are impatient. What I have read is people describing how they are spending hours farming for housing mats. That is insane and would make anyone hate the housing system if they did it that way. From my fairly casual approach to this game I know it will take me years, and that is a good thing. If you could bang it out in a day you would have nothing to work towards.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · February 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

Fully outfitting a large house - lets compare that to getting top class gear - 9 trait sets -
Learning 9 traits on 7 different slots plus one to four more slolts for weapon/shield - that took how long exactly?

Comparing one unreasonably long grind to another unreasonably long grind and then concluding they are therefore reasonable is just about the weakest and most dishonest defence I have ever seen - in any forum, ever.

Still what should we expect from @STEVIL - the person who never sees anything wrong at all with ESO, ever.

All The Best