Can We All Agree "Bow Builds" Aren't Viable?

hedna123b14_ESO · February 2017

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Im just going to leave this here;)
http://imgur.com/a/a3Neh#SB4A9gZ

Gee, so you can do barely passable DPS with a very specific build.... *fast claps*

What DPS do you do with a melee build? How about showing some actual comparative data instead of blowing smoke up people's asses.

39k unbuffed is barely passable DPS....lol you're so cute:)

Considering 50k buffed with a melee build is easily obtainable with a decent build yes.

Also, you failed to address how this only works with one specific build. GG

Are you braindead? Unbuffed 39k IS 50k+ buffed...

Kneighbors · February 2017

What they had to do is FPS system where you can hit different body parts for higher damage. Headshots for x3 damage, leg shots for slowing down etc.. This would make sense to bowing and would attract really skilled people to use bow instead of two attacks spammers who afraid to take some damage.

Ch4mpTW · February 2017

Kneighbors wrote: »

What they had to do is FPS system where you can hit different body parts for higher damage. Headshots for x3 damage, leg shots for slowing down etc.. This would make sense to bowing and would attract really skilled people to use bow instead of two attacks spammers who afraid to take some damage.

Out of curiosity, did you forget that this is a MMO? As well as a MMO with PvP? Granted this thread is based on PvE, but let's say for an example that the system you're describing gets implemented into the game. Can you imagine the even bigger train wreck that PvP would become? The amount of cheesing and bs that would occur? Nightmare fuel on steroids.

Faulgor · February 2017

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Im just going to leave this here;)
http://imgur.com/a/a3Neh#SB4A9gZ

This thread made me want to make a bow build ...

teladoy · February 2017

I don't understand why you can't accept that the people can play what they like. Bows, two hand, staff etc... if you have a preference then use kick button.

Stannum · February 2017

DrkHunter86 wrote: »

All I can say is I run a bow on my back at and can crit vet dungeon bosses for around 15k with snipe. Not necessarily the highest damage output but its still fairly strong. And again thats the thing about multiplayer games and mmos especially. Your gonna run into players who.play the way they want. I get annoyed by camping in shooters or spawn camping and so on and so on but its there choice too play that way, and as much as I hate it and find it too be a *** move its not my right too tell them too change. Sucks but in an mmo your gonna find strange builds that dont make sense. Most likely just someone playing the way they want and enjoying it.

Omg, i realize why there are so many bow-build haters. That cause of snipe users in PvE.

DragonBound · February 2017

KingYogi415 wrote: »

I just wish bow users would learn how to drop volley and poison injection before they spam snipe...

Poison injection is amazing, especially with the right champion points.

Cadbury · February 2017

teladoy wrote: »

I don't understand why you can't accept that the people can play what they like. Bows, two hand, staff etc... if you have a preference then use kick button.

OP was at a dolmen. Can't kick them from there.

Irfind · February 2017

Hm i do archery in rl so i do archery in game whats the problem in non vet dungeons or dolmens ?

Ah to bad i would like to write more but my english is just not good enough

AlexanderDeLarge · February 2017

@Ch4mpTW can you really blame people using bows in Dolman's (because the more enemies you "tag" the more XP/loot you get)?

As someone who is trying to get to CP600, I'm going to do whatever I have to do to get those things efficiently.

Bobby_V_Rockit · February 2017

I wish you could turn off notifications about certain threads. This ones gummin' up the works!

Cherryblossom · February 2017

ForsakenSin wrote: »

@Cherryblossom
"If you are on the battlefield with only a fecking bow, you are a dead man, if I have an axe, I have a shield, I'm also running at you. There is a reason archers stand behind infantry you know! It's not a primary weapon."

LOLZ

good luck sprinting at a archer at what 100m?? 200m ? while caring your shield and axe and other Armour .... hell even at 50 meters you will not have that much strength to swing your axe while archers can move ..don't expect them to stand still while your running and slowing down towards them.

if you think archers are only good behind the wall tell that to this guy how many arrows he is able to let go within 10 sec ? im not saying others were the same and yes i know they didn't have compound bow ect but they were trained

https://youtube.com/watch?v=2zGnxeSbb3g

PS what happens once when you came over no strengths to swing your axe and btw archers did have a secondary weapon daggers

@ForsakenSin
You overestimate the performance of Arrow's on Mail, having seen the results of a bodkin arrow on a mail wrapped dummy at 40 meters I can assure a 70lb bow will leave you with a bruise and not much else!
Whilst personally I'm not able to say I could run around in Mail and weapons, I have many Viking re-enactment friends who can quite happily run 1km in armour and still be able to kick your arse. Don't judge people on your own physical prowess

The fact still remains, bows are not a primary weapon, you have already mentioned they have daggers, not Bow and erm Bow.

technohic · February 2017

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Love my bow Stamplar.

Well; I think of mine that way because I use the bow bar a lot but when I get in a dungeon; I do switch my bar to just AOE and poison injection, switch in some group utility; then use my 2 h bar a lot more.

I don't PVE much in that sort of setting but I get the impression when I do that even 2 handers are frowned upon.

What I find ironic is in a lot of mmos I play; PVPers tend to get the stereotype type of being elitist jerks; but this game it seems to be PVEers. I don't blame them though in harder content other than to say "don't PUG if you don't like it. ".

Pvpers will catch up as far as wanting specific builds when battle grounds come out. It's just the nature of trying to accomplish goals with a group of random greatly affecting the outcome.

Ch4mpTW · February 2017

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

@Ch4mpTW can you really blame people using bows in Dolman's (because the more enemies you "tag" the more XP/loot you get)?

As someone who is trying to get to CP600, I'm going to do whatever I have to do to get those things efficiently.

@AlexanderDeLarge When putting things into their proper perspective, I suppose it's not exactly the worst of things in regards to using a bow at a dolmen. As for 1, it is overland content. And honestly overland content is pretty much a cake walk; requiring little to no effort at all. Plus, it has a bit of logic in regards to trying to tag as many things as possible (although I would rather use caltrops and or Endless Hail in addition to it only).

However! I still am strongly against people attempting to do veteran dungeons and trials with double bows and "bow builds". I find that to be inconsiderate, and a waste of the other 3 individual's time doing so. For example, would I personally bring my PetSorc into group content? No. Have I in the past? Yes. Even veteran trials as well. Why did I? Because I was specifically asked to by those organizing the trial, and the build provided excellent synergy with what the group's intentions were. Resulting in a massive success, and everyone walking out of that trial with an amazing score and all vitality.

cbaudersub17_ESO · February 2017

x

STEVIL wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

Had a failed Selene's Web Pledge today. Both DPS were Main Bow and Pet Sorc with Maw of Infernal and to seal the deal one was near 227cp and the other near 310cp... doomed. Never saw a ground WOE or any AOE from the Sorc. I asked. He didn't have the points for it...

I carried the group to the last boss as a DK Shield Tank. The healer was saying she had nothing to do as I chained all ranged mobs to the Boss AOE area, except there was no AOE so we ground and pound ugly through the sub bosses taking way longer to kill trash and bosses alike. Before Selene I told them, "DO NOT Touch the Scroll" at the final boss.

The End Boss Selene HP's were not moving, and the multiple adds doomed the overwhelmed the healer as both DPS were chain dying, and the Pet sorc's pet taunt was pissing me off as well XD I chained all the Menders I saw right next to the Boss and still they stayed alive way too long. After the 2nd wipe we called it.

No, of course it's not all the time for everyone, but if the Triple cocktail of:
1) Inexperience
2) (2hand, Bow main)
3) Lower than 1/2 or 3/4 max CP

You have a ripe condition for wasted time. That's what many are talking about.

P.S.
I ran with some experienced Trial Raiders last week (Rare) and was blown away at how fast we blew through the same content when everyone knew the mechanics and used multiple skills for a "Rotation". Brings a tear to my eye. One was a Stam Sorc and the other a Destro Flame DK.

I did invite one of my mNB friends but he's been pissed since the last patch...

You dont mention level of the pledge - normal, vet, hm - so just let me say that the fact that some had bows were the least of your problem IMO. heck, had the bows been raining AOE hails and AOE bombards it might have been better than grinding thru solo target mobs at the end. hell with a solid dk tank like you if they had the two bow/2h doing in/out Aoe charge 2h tandems while the sorc laid down WoE and Liguid lightning and a volatile clanfear pulses... you could have been drowning in AoE goodness.

but i did not read your description and go "man yeah thats bows for yah."

had they been DW rushing in with the twin-slash-heavy "rotation" (no skills for tornado or flurry) you would not have fared much better, right?

I probably PUG a similar tank build as @Cronopoly on a regular basis. Been there at Selene's Web one time or another (honorable mention goes to Grubull the Transmuted and Captain Blackheart).

Cherryblossom wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

@Cherryblossom
"If you are on the battlefield with only a fecking bow, you are a dead man, if I have an axe, I have a shield, I'm also running at you. There is a reason archers stand behind infantry you know! It's not a primary weapon."

LOLZ

good luck sprinting at a archer at what 100m?? 200m ? while caring your shield and axe and other Armour .... hell even at 50 meters you will not have that much strength to swing your axe while archers can move ..don't expect them to stand still while your running and slowing down towards them.

if you think archers are only good behind the wall tell that to this guy how many arrows he is able to let go within 10 sec ? im not saying others were the same and yes i know they didn't have compound bow ect but they were trained

https://youtube.com/watch?v=2zGnxeSbb3g

PS what happens once when you came over no strengths to swing your axe and btw archers did have a secondary weapon daggers

@ForsakenSin
You overestimate the performance of Arrow's on Mail, having seen the results of a bodkin arrow on a mail wrapped dummy at 40 meters I can assure a 70lb bow will leave you with a bruise and not much else!
Whilst personally I'm not able to say I could run around in Mail and weapons, I have many Viking re-enactment friends who can quite happily run 1km in armour and still be able to kick your arse. Don't judge people on your own physical prowess
The fact still remains, bows are not a primary weapon, you have already mentioned they have daggers, not Bow and erm Bow.

About 03:28 in the linked video.

Cherryblossom · February 2017

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

x

STEVIL wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

Had a failed Selene's Web Pledge today. Both DPS were Main Bow and Pet Sorc with Maw of Infernal and to seal the deal one was near 227cp and the other near 310cp... doomed. Never saw a ground WOE or any AOE from the Sorc. I asked. He didn't have the points for it...

I carried the group to the last boss as a DK Shield Tank. The healer was saying she had nothing to do as I chained all ranged mobs to the Boss AOE area, except there was no AOE so we ground and pound ugly through the sub bosses taking way longer to kill trash and bosses alike. Before Selene I told them, "DO NOT Touch the Scroll" at the final boss.

The End Boss Selene HP's were not moving, and the multiple adds doomed the overwhelmed the healer as both DPS were chain dying, and the Pet sorc's pet taunt was pissing me off as well XD I chained all the Menders I saw right next to the Boss and still they stayed alive way too long. After the 2nd wipe we called it.

No, of course it's not all the time for everyone, but if the Triple cocktail of:
1) Inexperience
2) (2hand, Bow main)
3) Lower than 1/2 or 3/4 max CP

You have a ripe condition for wasted time. That's what many are talking about.

P.S.
I ran with some experienced Trial Raiders last week (Rare) and was blown away at how fast we blew through the same content when everyone knew the mechanics and used multiple skills for a "Rotation". Brings a tear to my eye. One was a Stam Sorc and the other a Destro Flame DK.

I did invite one of my mNB friends but he's been pissed since the last patch...

You dont mention level of the pledge - normal, vet, hm - so just let me say that the fact that some had bows were the least of your problem IMO. heck, had the bows been raining AOE hails and AOE bombards it might have been better than grinding thru solo target mobs at the end. hell with a solid dk tank like you if they had the two bow/2h doing in/out Aoe charge 2h tandems while the sorc laid down WoE and Liguid lightning and a volatile clanfear pulses... you could have been drowning in AoE goodness.

but i did not read your description and go "man yeah thats bows for yah."

had they been DW rushing in with the twin-slash-heavy "rotation" (no skills for tornado or flurry) you would not have fared much better, right?

I probably PUG a similar tank build as @Cronopoly on a regular basis. Been there at Selene's Web one time or another (honorable mention goes to Grubull the Transmuted and Captain Blackheart).

Cherryblossom wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

@Cherryblossom
"If you are on the battlefield with only a fecking bow, you are a dead man, if I have an axe, I have a shield, I'm also running at you. There is a reason archers stand behind infantry you know! It's not a primary weapon."

LOLZ

good luck sprinting at a archer at what 100m?? 200m ? while caring your shield and axe and other Armour .... hell even at 50 meters you will not have that much strength to swing your axe while archers can move ..don't expect them to stand still while your running and slowing down towards them.

if you think archers are only good behind the wall tell that to this guy how many arrows he is able to let go within 10 sec ? im not saying others were the same and yes i know they didn't have compound bow ect but they were trained

https://youtube.com/watch?v=2zGnxeSbb3g

PS what happens once when you came over no strengths to swing your axe and btw archers did have a secondary weapon daggers

@ForsakenSin
You overestimate the performance of Arrow's on Mail, having seen the results of a bodkin arrow on a mail wrapped dummy at 40 meters I can assure a 70lb bow will leave you with a bruise and not much else!
Whilst personally I'm not able to say I could run around in Mail and weapons, I have many Viking re-enactment friends who can quite happily run 1km in armour and still be able to kick your arse. Don't judge people on your own physical prowess
The fact still remains, bows are not a primary weapon, you have already mentioned they have daggers, not Bow and erm Bow.

About 03:28 in the linked video.

@cbaudersub17_ESO

Didn't look like normal riveted mail to me, looked very light weight, secondly only the very tip pierced the mail, which at best would result in a superficial cut and bruise. Test I've actually seen was with a dummy with padded armour and mail, the bodkin whilst it pierced the armour didn't leave any mark upon the dummy.
120lb Longbow, that's a different matter, but you try pulling one and being quick and accurate.

AcadianPaladin · February 2017

I still sometimes play my bow/bow stamsorc and the feelings can cut both ways. I don't do grouping with strangers or put my character in a position where others are counting on her for high dps. And she does take longer to kill stuff but we find that great fun.

She may be encasing, clannfear tanking and kiting while killing baddies and doing just fine. Then some superduperdps'er runs in to her 'rescue' and explodes the baddies. Hey, it is a public game and she doesn't 'mind' the 'help' but she doesn't 'need' it. If it stops there, all is good. When same super dps char tries to offer her advice about not using a bow as primary, that is not good. My whole point when I play her is to live on the edge of 'no touchy' vulnerability and surviving with zero melee skills.

Taking a longer time to kill foes can be fun and does not necessarily indicate we don't know what we're doing. She can complete every solo quest in the game just fine with zero melee. I go out of my way not to 'inflict' the slower killing bow/bow tactics on others by not grouping with strangers. If I wanted to kill fast and efficiently, I'd play my magplar.

This thread is useful to me because I am interested in the attitudes of others and when I do group want to be considerate of groupmates. That is, it does validate my choice not to group with others when playing my bow/bow. Her clannfear and hypermobility is not group friendly anyway.

pod88kk · February 2017

I use bow and DW on my Stamsorc in pve and it's beast but that being said I only use it for volley and poison injection.... No sniping for me thank you very much

Izaki · February 2017

A friend of mine begs to differ. 39k self buffed, without major fracture on a target skeleton on a bow blade.

anadandy · February 2017

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

anadandy wrote: »

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

I love my slutty Bosmer bow character. She plays in the mix, helps keeps things tight, offs the stubborn adds that do not want to move, and LOVES shoving that bow up any casters nose.

I just had to fistbump you for this comment. Best thing I've read today.

@anadandy

She's great at bowjobs.

*micdrop* And now I'm done with this thread because it will never get any better.

cbaudersub17_ESO · February 2017

Cherryblossom wrote: »

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

x

STEVIL wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

Had a failed Selene's Web Pledge today. Both DPS were Main Bow and Pet Sorc with Maw of Infernal and to seal the deal one was near 227cp and the other near 310cp... doomed. Never saw a ground WOE or any AOE from the Sorc. I asked. He didn't have the points for it...

I carried the group to the last boss as a DK Shield Tank. The healer was saying she had nothing to do as I chained all ranged mobs to the Boss AOE area, except there was no AOE so we ground and pound ugly through the sub bosses taking way longer to kill trash and bosses alike. Before Selene I told them, "DO NOT Touch the Scroll" at the final boss.

The End Boss Selene HP's were not moving, and the multiple adds doomed the overwhelmed the healer as both DPS were chain dying, and the Pet sorc's pet taunt was pissing me off as well XD I chained all the Menders I saw right next to the Boss and still they stayed alive way too long. After the 2nd wipe we called it.

No, of course it's not all the time for everyone, but if the Triple cocktail of:
1) Inexperience
2) (2hand, Bow main)
3) Lower than 1/2 or 3/4 max CP

You have a ripe condition for wasted time. That's what many are talking about.

P.S.
I ran with some experienced Trial Raiders last week (Rare) and was blown away at how fast we blew through the same content when everyone knew the mechanics and used multiple skills for a "Rotation". Brings a tear to my eye. One was a Stam Sorc and the other a Destro Flame DK.

I did invite one of my mNB friends but he's been pissed since the last patch...

You dont mention level of the pledge - normal, vet, hm - so just let me say that the fact that some had bows were the least of your problem IMO. heck, had the bows been raining AOE hails and AOE bombards it might have been better than grinding thru solo target mobs at the end. hell with a solid dk tank like you if they had the two bow/2h doing in/out Aoe charge 2h tandems while the sorc laid down WoE and Liguid lightning and a volatile clanfear pulses... you could have been drowning in AoE goodness.

but i did not read your description and go "man yeah thats bows for yah."

had they been DW rushing in with the twin-slash-heavy "rotation" (no skills for tornado or flurry) you would not have fared much better, right?

I probably PUG a similar tank build as @Cronopoly on a regular basis. Been there at Selene's Web one time or another (honorable mention goes to Grubull the Transmuted and Captain Blackheart).

Cherryblossom wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

@Cherryblossom
"If you are on the battlefield with only a fecking bow, you are a dead man, if I have an axe, I have a shield, I'm also running at you. There is a reason archers stand behind infantry you know! It's not a primary weapon."

LOLZ

good luck sprinting at a archer at what 100m?? 200m ? while caring your shield and axe and other Armour .... hell even at 50 meters you will not have that much strength to swing your axe while archers can move ..don't expect them to stand still while your running and slowing down towards them.

if you think archers are only good behind the wall tell that to this guy how many arrows he is able to let go within 10 sec ? im not saying others were the same and yes i know they didn't have compound bow ect but they were trained

https://youtube.com/watch?v=2zGnxeSbb3g

PS what happens once when you came over no strengths to swing your axe and btw archers did have a secondary weapon daggers

@ForsakenSin
You overestimate the performance of Arrow's on Mail, having seen the results of a bodkin arrow on a mail wrapped dummy at 40 meters I can assure a 70lb bow will leave you with a bruise and not much else!
Whilst personally I'm not able to say I could run around in Mail and weapons, I have many Viking re-enactment friends who can quite happily run 1km in armour and still be able to kick your arse. Don't judge people on your own physical prowess
The fact still remains, bows are not a primary weapon, you have already mentioned they have daggers, not Bow and erm Bow.

About 03:28 in the linked video.

@cbaudersub17_ESO

Didn't look like normal riveted mail to me, looked very light weight, secondly only the very tip pierced the mail, which at best would result in a superficial cut and bruise. Test I've actually seen was with a dummy with padded armour and mail, the bodkin whilst it pierced the armour didn't leave any mark upon the dummy.
120lb Longbow, that's a different matter, but you try pulling one and being quick and accurate.

Anyone got that Danish guy's email address? I feel a high stakes bet in the making.

Cherryblossom · February 2017

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

x

STEVIL wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

Had a failed Selene's Web Pledge today. Both DPS were Main Bow and Pet Sorc with Maw of Infernal and to seal the deal one was near 227cp and the other near 310cp... doomed. Never saw a ground WOE or any AOE from the Sorc. I asked. He didn't have the points for it...

I carried the group to the last boss as a DK Shield Tank. The healer was saying she had nothing to do as I chained all ranged mobs to the Boss AOE area, except there was no AOE so we ground and pound ugly through the sub bosses taking way longer to kill trash and bosses alike. Before Selene I told them, "DO NOT Touch the Scroll" at the final boss.

The End Boss Selene HP's were not moving, and the multiple adds doomed the overwhelmed the healer as both DPS were chain dying, and the Pet sorc's pet taunt was pissing me off as well XD I chained all the Menders I saw right next to the Boss and still they stayed alive way too long. After the 2nd wipe we called it.

No, of course it's not all the time for everyone, but if the Triple cocktail of:
1) Inexperience
2) (2hand, Bow main)
3) Lower than 1/2 or 3/4 max CP

You have a ripe condition for wasted time. That's what many are talking about.

P.S.
I ran with some experienced Trial Raiders last week (Rare) and was blown away at how fast we blew through the same content when everyone knew the mechanics and used multiple skills for a "Rotation". Brings a tear to my eye. One was a Stam Sorc and the other a Destro Flame DK.

I did invite one of my mNB friends but he's been pissed since the last patch...

You dont mention level of the pledge - normal, vet, hm - so just let me say that the fact that some had bows were the least of your problem IMO. heck, had the bows been raining AOE hails and AOE bombards it might have been better than grinding thru solo target mobs at the end. hell with a solid dk tank like you if they had the two bow/2h doing in/out Aoe charge 2h tandems while the sorc laid down WoE and Liguid lightning and a volatile clanfear pulses... you could have been drowning in AoE goodness.

but i did not read your description and go "man yeah thats bows for yah."

had they been DW rushing in with the twin-slash-heavy "rotation" (no skills for tornado or flurry) you would not have fared much better, right?

I probably PUG a similar tank build as @Cronopoly on a regular basis. Been there at Selene's Web one time or another (honorable mention goes to Grubull the Transmuted and Captain Blackheart).

Cherryblossom wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

@Cherryblossom
"If you are on the battlefield with only a fecking bow, you are a dead man, if I have an axe, I have a shield, I'm also running at you. There is a reason archers stand behind infantry you know! It's not a primary weapon."

LOLZ

good luck sprinting at a archer at what 100m?? 200m ? while caring your shield and axe and other Armour .... hell even at 50 meters you will not have that much strength to swing your axe while archers can move ..don't expect them to stand still while your running and slowing down towards them.

if you think archers are only good behind the wall tell that to this guy how many arrows he is able to let go within 10 sec ? im not saying others were the same and yes i know they didn't have compound bow ect but they were trained

https://youtube.com/watch?v=2zGnxeSbb3g

PS what happens once when you came over no strengths to swing your axe and btw archers did have a secondary weapon daggers

@ForsakenSin
You overestimate the performance of Arrow's on Mail, having seen the results of a bodkin arrow on a mail wrapped dummy at 40 meters I can assure a 70lb bow will leave you with a bruise and not much else!
Whilst personally I'm not able to say I could run around in Mail and weapons, I have many Viking re-enactment friends who can quite happily run 1km in armour and still be able to kick your arse. Don't judge people on your own physical prowess
The fact still remains, bows are not a primary weapon, you have already mentioned they have daggers, not Bow and erm Bow.

About 03:28 in the linked video.

@cbaudersub17_ESO

Didn't look like normal riveted mail to me, looked very light weight, secondly only the very tip pierced the mail, which at best would result in a superficial cut and bruise. Test I've actually seen was with a dummy with padded armour and mail, the bodkin whilst it pierced the armour didn't leave any mark upon the dummy.
120lb Longbow, that's a different matter, but you try pulling one and being quick and accurate.

Anyone got that Danish guy's email address? I feel a high stakes bet in the making.

@cbaudersub17_ESO
I know a guy who would wear the armour if I sweet talk him, but he prefers Sword to Axe

Cronopoly · February 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

Had a failed Selene's Web Pledge today. Both DPS were Main Bow and Pet Sorc with Maw of Infernal and to seal the deal one was near 227cp and the other near 310cp... doomed. Never saw a ground WOE or any AOE from the Sorc. I asked. He didn't have the points for it...

I carried the group to the last boss as a DK Shield Tank. The healer was saying she had nothing to do as I chained all ranged mobs to the Boss AOE area, except there was no AOE so we ground and pound ugly through the sub bosses taking way longer to kill trash and bosses alike. Before Selene I told them, "DO NOT Touch the Scroll" at the final boss.

The End Boss Selene HP's were not moving, and the multiple adds doomed the overwhelmed the healer as both DPS were chain dying, and the Pet sorc's pet taunt was pissing me off as well XD I chained all the Menders I saw right next to the Boss and still they stayed alive way too long. After the 2nd wipe we called it.

No, of course it's not all the time for everyone, but if the Triple cocktail of:
1) Inexperience
2) (2hand, Bow main)
3) Lower than 1/2 or 3/4 max CP

You have a ripe condition for wasted time. That's what many are talking about.

P.S.
I ran with some experienced Trial Raiders last week (Rare) and was blown away at how fast we blew through the same content when everyone knew the mechanics and used multiple skills for a "Rotation". Brings a tear to my eye. One was a Stam Sorc and the other a Destro Flame DK.

I did invite one of my mNB friends but he's been pissed since the last patch...

You dont mention level of the pledge - normal, vet, hm - so just let me say that the fact that some had bows were the least of your problem IMO. heck, had the bows been raining AOE hails and AOE bombards it might have been better than grinding thru solo target mobs at the end. hell with a solid dk tank like you if they had the two bow/2h doing in/out Aoe charge 2h tandems while the sorc laid down WoE and Liguid lightning and a volatile clanfear pulses... you could have been drowning in AoE goodness.

but i did not read your description and go "man yeah thats bows for yah."

had they been DW rushing in with the twin-slash-heavy "rotation" (no skills for tornado or flurry) you would not have fared much better, right?

You are correct in your summary it was Vet Selene. And yes had there been some WOE or Endless Hail spam life would have been manageable i'm sure. Tactics...

AverageJo3Gam3r · February 2017

Meh, bow dps is fine. You need both a master bow and vMA bow, but you can do serious content with bow only. I have a buddy who farms vMA using bow/bow, and I run vdsa with. Our other dps is not CP capped, so he isn't picking up any slack from the bow/bow dps. Bow/bow pulls his own weight. NOS also had a bow/bow build on tamriel foundry.

Vash747 · February 2017

I runs dolmens naked half the time, glad I won't IRk you as long as I stick to melee. Honestly don't complain it's just petty. Let people play if you don't like it, don't play with them.

cbaudersub17_ESO · February 2017

Cherryblossom wrote: »

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

x

STEVIL wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

Had a failed Selene's Web Pledge today. Both DPS were Main Bow and Pet Sorc with Maw of Infernal and to seal the deal one was near 227cp and the other near 310cp... doomed. Never saw a ground WOE or any AOE from the Sorc. I asked. He didn't have the points for it...

I carried the group to the last boss as a DK Shield Tank. The healer was saying she had nothing to do as I chained all ranged mobs to the Boss AOE area, except there was no AOE so we ground and pound ugly through the sub bosses taking way longer to kill trash and bosses alike. Before Selene I told them, "DO NOT Touch the Scroll" at the final boss.

The End Boss Selene HP's were not moving, and the multiple adds doomed the overwhelmed the healer as both DPS were chain dying, and the Pet sorc's pet taunt was pissing me off as well XD I chained all the Menders I saw right next to the Boss and still they stayed alive way too long. After the 2nd wipe we called it.

No, of course it's not all the time for everyone, but if the Triple cocktail of:
1) Inexperience
2) (2hand, Bow main)
3) Lower than 1/2 or 3/4 max CP

You have a ripe condition for wasted time. That's what many are talking about.

P.S.
I ran with some experienced Trial Raiders last week (Rare) and was blown away at how fast we blew through the same content when everyone knew the mechanics and used multiple skills for a "Rotation". Brings a tear to my eye. One was a Stam Sorc and the other a Destro Flame DK.

I did invite one of my mNB friends but he's been pissed since the last patch...

You dont mention level of the pledge - normal, vet, hm - so just let me say that the fact that some had bows were the least of your problem IMO. heck, had the bows been raining AOE hails and AOE bombards it might have been better than grinding thru solo target mobs at the end. hell with a solid dk tank like you if they had the two bow/2h doing in/out Aoe charge 2h tandems while the sorc laid down WoE and Liguid lightning and a volatile clanfear pulses... you could have been drowning in AoE goodness.

but i did not read your description and go "man yeah thats bows for yah."

had they been DW rushing in with the twin-slash-heavy "rotation" (no skills for tornado or flurry) you would not have fared much better, right?

I probably PUG a similar tank build as @Cronopoly on a regular basis. Been there at Selene's Web one time or another (honorable mention goes to Grubull the Transmuted and Captain Blackheart).

Cherryblossom wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

@Cherryblossom
"If you are on the battlefield with only a fecking bow, you are a dead man, if I have an axe, I have a shield, I'm also running at you. There is a reason archers stand behind infantry you know! It's not a primary weapon."

LOLZ

good luck sprinting at a archer at what 100m?? 200m ? while caring your shield and axe and other Armour .... hell even at 50 meters you will not have that much strength to swing your axe while archers can move ..don't expect them to stand still while your running and slowing down towards them.

if you think archers are only good behind the wall tell that to this guy how many arrows he is able to let go within 10 sec ? im not saying others were the same and yes i know they didn't have compound bow ect but they were trained

https://youtube.com/watch?v=2zGnxeSbb3g

PS what happens once when you came over no strengths to swing your axe and btw archers did have a secondary weapon daggers

@ForsakenSin
You overestimate the performance of Arrow's on Mail, having seen the results of a bodkin arrow on a mail wrapped dummy at 40 meters I can assure a 70lb bow will leave you with a bruise and not much else!
Whilst personally I'm not able to say I could run around in Mail and weapons, I have many Viking re-enactment friends who can quite happily run 1km in armour and still be able to kick your arse. Don't judge people on your own physical prowess
The fact still remains, bows are not a primary weapon, you have already mentioned they have daggers, not Bow and erm Bow.

About 03:28 in the linked video.

@cbaudersub17_ESO

Didn't look like normal riveted mail to me, looked very light weight, secondly only the very tip pierced the mail, which at best would result in a superficial cut and bruise. Test I've actually seen was with a dummy with padded armour and mail, the bodkin whilst it pierced the armour didn't leave any mark upon the dummy.
120lb Longbow, that's a different matter, but you try pulling one and being quick and accurate.

Anyone got that Danish guy's email address? I feel a high stakes bet in the making.

@cbaudersub17_ESO
I know a guy who would wear the armour if I sweet talk him, but he prefers Sword to Axe

In case we can get this off the ground, promise any 'payment' to this fellow until after the scenario is played out. You know, just in case.

Artis · February 2017

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Im just going to leave this here;)
http://imgur.com/a/a3Neh#SB4A9gZ

Gee, so you can do barely passable DPS with a very specific build.... *fast claps*

What DPS do you do with a melee build? How about showing some actual comparative data instead of blowing smoke up people's asses.

Lol tf you talking about? Get that selfbuffed on a magicka build. Say, magicka NB. And I saw the same player's screenshots on his magblade. The DPS is lower, let's just say that.

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Im just going to leave this here;)
http://imgur.com/a/a3Neh#SB4A9gZ

Gee, so you can do barely passable DPS with a very specific build.... *fast claps*

What DPS do you do with a melee build? How about showing some actual comparative data instead of blowing smoke up people's asses.

39k unbuffed is barely passable DPS....lol you're so cute:)

Considering 50k buffed with a melee build is easily obtainable with a decent build yes.

Also, you failed to address how this only works with one specific build. GG

That 39k is self-buffed. But go ahead and post your 50k dps screenshot, and then do it selfbuffed and see what you get. And you do understand that 39k unbuffed will be 50 buffed ?

JinMori · February 2017

Sinthrax wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

This is kinda funny, actually. "This tree is underwhelming, because I've had a few bad experiences."

OP, this is not meant to be flaming, and I'm sorry if you take it that way, but I can tell you all about the horrible dual wield players that exist. The weapon doesn't shape the character, the character shapes the weapon.

@DocFrost72 It's all good, and no hard feelings taken. I too know of the bad DW players. The people who run into a fight, and immediately start Steel Tornado spamming nonstop. Regardless of whether or not the enemy NPC's/Players are at full health or not. Lol. I've seen a lot of weird chit brah. A lot.

Although, let's be realistic for a moment. Mathematically if you're using a bow for a main weapon, your damage output will be substantially worse than someone who is DW. That is fact. You can have 2 of the best of the best players of each weapon, and that person who uses DW will outperform the bow user every single time. I can assure you of this. And not just at damage over time, but raw burst as well.

But will that bow wielder be able to do like 99% of the content in the game? Why yes they will. At this point you arguement becomes, if that bow wielder had been using a meta build we would have finished that dungeon in 15 minutes instead of 17 minutes. Yeah i get it. 2 minutes of your life you will never get back because some heartless soul was dragging down your group with a bow. How dare they.

Well I wouldn't mind if the diffrence really was just 2 minutes. But the actual number for a bow-carry run is more like - 25-30 minutes. Because bad bow DDs do low DPS on EVERY fight. Every boss becomes 2 minutes longer and every trash pull turns into an absolute nightmare (Remeber: light attacks are not AoE).

I do not have anything against bow people in PUGs in general. I know that if I'm going to PUG I will have to be ready for a longer run. I'm totally fine with that.

But there is a lack of tanks/healers in groupfinder. (really like those 1 minute queues for pledges, btw) And bad DDs just shoot themself and other DDs in the knee, making it less interesting for good tanks and healers to use groupfinder. Staring at the boss's balls really quickly becomes old.

typo

Again this is true of any bad dps. Not just bad bow dps. There have been several links in this thread showing bow builds with good dps. More then enough to complete a vet dungeon.

So you would rather pug it up with a 15k dw dps just because they look all meta. then a 25k dps bow just because, if the dw was better in theory he could pull more dps then the bow. Seems sort of silly.

I see it differently. I thinks its silly for someone to step into a dungeon purposely not seeking to be the best. If bow was at least competitive compared to others I wouldn't mind.

Eso did not invent best builds. They been around for....years. I have just become to expect of others. If they expect me to think they can be less than the best...then thats on them. Me, I try my best at everything...yes, even games. I wouldn't take my Ford to a race track...it just wouldn't cut it. A bow...just dont cut it.

This is how i see it too.

masterbroodub17_ESO · February 2017

So because someone found ONE way to make it viable that means it's viable?

Cool, let's start encouraging people to play this way all the way until they get the perfect gear setup.

Oh, you mean it ONLY works with BiS gear and a very specific build, and doing it before then is ***? So then it's not REALLY viable then is it?

Showing that something is within the realm of possibility does not mean it's viable. If it was truly viable you wouldn't need to play as a melee until you get the right gear and then reset skill points. That is not viability, that is a workaround. If you cannot go from a to z without being gimp it is not viable, period.

Ch4mpTW · February 2017

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

So because someone found ONE way to make it viable that means it's viable?

Cool, let's start encouraging people to play this way all the way until they get the perfect gear setup.

Oh, you mean it ONLY works with BiS gear and a very specific build, and doing it before then is ***? So then it's not REALLY viable then is it?

Showing that something is within the realm of possibility does not mean it's viable. If it was truly viable you wouldn't need to play as a melee until you get the right gear and then reset skill points. That is not viability, that is a workaround. If you cannot go from a to z without being gimp it is not viable, period.

@masterbroodub17_ESO You sir win the Internet for the day. You hit the nail perfectly on the head.