Can We All Agree "Bow Builds" Aren't Viable?

Ch4mpTW

Browiseth wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Edit: I just don't see why so many damn people gravitate toward bows/sniper-related weaponry for their main weapon choice, especially when looking at things for what they are. It's not just on ESO. It's on Overwatch too. As well as other games that a sniper is playable. "Ermagerd a sniper! I must pick them!" "OMG! A sniper rifle! Let me go and make use of this, even though it's completely impractical for the given situation and environment!" "What!? This game has a means of me to snipe!? Sorry guys, but I'm gonna go snipe. And don't try to tell me otherwise of how to play my game."

Why is it so popular to be an archer/bowman suddenly? On paper it doesn't even seem too logical, as at close range you're screwed. Ugh.

you can't comprehend the fact that someone likes different things that you might not like?

how often do you interact with other human beings on a personal level

Often enough for you to cash me ousside in Cyrodiil. Howbow dah?

i don't get it, sorry

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Ch4mpTW

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Edit: I just don't see why so many damn people gravitate toward bows/sniper-related weaponry for their main weapon choice, especially when looking at things for what they are. It's not just on ESO. It's on Overwatch too. As well as other games that a sniper is playable. "Ermagerd a sniper! I must pick them!" "OMG! A sniper rifle! Let me go and make use of this, even though it's completely impractical for the given situation and environment!" "What!? This game has a means of me to snipe!? Sorry guys, but I'm gonna go snipe. And don't try to tell me otherwise of how to play my game."

Why is it so popular to be an archer/bowman suddenly? On paper it doesn't even seem too logical, as at close range you're screwed. Ugh.

you can't comprehend the fact that someone likes different things that you might not like?

how often do you interact with other human beings on a personal level

Often enough for you to cash me ousside in Cyrodiil. Howbow dah?

i don't get it, sorry

@PelinalWhitestrake Lmao. You got the reference. Kudos. You sir get an awesome.

cpuScientist

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Edit: I just don't see why so many damn people gravitate toward bows/sniper-related weaponry for their main weapon choice, especially when looking at things for what they are. It's not just on ESO. It's on Overwatch too. As well as other games that a sniper is playable. "Ermagerd a sniper! I must pick them!" "OMG! A sniper rifle! Let me go and make use of this, even though it's completely impractical for the given situation and environment!" "What!? This game has a means of me to snipe!? Sorry guys, but I'm gonna go snipe. And don't try to tell me otherwise of how to play my game."

Why is it so popular to be an archer/bowman suddenly? On paper it doesn't even seem too logical, as at close range you're screwed. Ugh.

you can't comprehend the fact that someone likes different things that you might not like?

how often do you interact with other human beings on a personal level

Often enough for you to cash me ousside in Cyrodiil. Howbow dah?

i don't get it, sorry

Her nose is so sexy

cbaudersub17_ESO

Starless06 wrote: »

Blackt00thGrim wrote: »

I can relate to the idea that it's frustrating to group with pure bow builds. I have been running a lot of vet Vaults for Worm Cult stuff on my Templar healer. It's an easy dungeon, and most runs could be done quickly with three dps and myself. It has put me in the position to be able to notice dps differences, and compositions that are faster and slower, since I'm running the same thing over and over.

The worst runs involve "archers". It's not just the low dps. I can live with slower runs. It's the mentality that comes with it. The play style is squirelly to say the least. Archers rarely stand in my ritual, and need more spot healing. They often have low health, leading to one shot situations. They refuse to stand in front of me to get a Combat Prayer. They usually have no mic, and won't even respond in group chat. I'm a patient player, explain a lot of things to new people, but I can do nothing for someone who wants to lone wolf in a dungeon.They make things a pain in the ass for everyone else, especially me.

I would love to group with a bow build that did good damage. Since it's not that easy to do, the player should be pretty good, and would avoid all the things I mentioned above. But 95 times out of 100, the archers do their hyper active squirrel routine, and the rest of the group is stuck wondering why dungeon finder hates them so much. It's pretty easy to get to a point where you just see a double bow and face palm.

I've had very similar experiences on my Templar farming sets. I have no problem with bow players. It's really not that their dps isn't acceptable. It's the bow dps play style that's really the problem. They stand at max range. They don't receive as many buffs, don't use group synergies, and really don't bring much to the group other than dps that's usually lower than most other set ups.

No weapon choice is immune to bad group-play. The soloist-style player on a bow usually happens to be very easy to spot.

Kodrac

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Yes, all five of them.

You must not have run a random dungeon recently, in like the last 2 years.

Cadbury

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Edit: I just don't see why so many damn people gravitate toward bows/sniper-related weaponry for their main weapon choice, especially when looking at things for what they are. It's not just on ESO. It's on Overwatch too. As well as other games that a sniper is playable. "Ermagerd a sniper! I must pick them!" "OMG! A sniper rifle! Let me go and make use of this, even though it's completely impractical for the given situation and environment!" "What!? This game has a means of me to snipe!? Sorry guys, but I'm gonna go snipe. And don't try to tell me otherwise of how to play my game."

Why is it so popular to be an archer/bowman suddenly? On paper it doesn't even seem too logical, as at close range you're screwed. Ugh.

you can't comprehend the fact that someone likes different things that you might not like?

how often do you interact with other human beings on a personal level

Often enough for you to cash me ousside in Cyrodiil. Howbow dah?

i don't get it, sorry

@PelinalWhitestrake Lmao. You got the reference. Kudos. You sir get an awesome.

To be fair, it's mostlly Americans who will be familiar with Danielle Bregoli.

exeeter702

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

So because someone found ONE way to make it viable that means it's viable?

Cool, let's start encouraging people to play this way all the way until they get the perfect gear setup.

Oh, you mean it ONLY works with BiS gear and a very specific build, and doing it before then is ***? So then it's not REALLY viable then is it?

Showing that something is within the realm of possibility does not mean it's viable. If it was truly viable you wouldn't need to play as a melee until you get the right gear and then reset skill points. That is not viability, that is a workaround. If you cannot go from a to z without being gimp it is not viable, period.

@masterbroodub17_ESO You sir win the Internet for the day. You hit the nail perfectly on the head.

confirmation bias much?

He doesnt win ***... that is the very definition of viable. The guy is speaking out of his ass.

Artis

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Games are balanced around endgame content. Bows are not viable at that level.

Complaining about bows will hopefully get ZOS to buff/change them.

1. Yes they are, the builds and screenshots are linked in this thread. 39k unbuffed is more than any magicka build will pull.
2. What is viable then? DW? Well DW-DW on both bars is suboptimal just like Bow-Bow and will work worse than DW+Bow just like bow-bow. So Bow is viable. It's one of BiS stamina weapon types that every stamina DPS runs. So what is not viable again?

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Meri20098 wrote: »

I use a bow and DW

I do as well on my stamina characters. I use DW on my front bar, and bow on my back bar. And have had tons of success with it in a PvE environment (both solo and in groups).

@Ch4mpTW stop replying selectively. People proved you wrong multiple times with builds and screenshots in this thread, yet you ignored all those comments and only answer to others. You're wrong, so go away. Or explain why you're not.

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Are you really crying about how people play at dolmens?? That's one of the places it's ok to play as you want because others aren't relying on you. On top of that a heavy attack/poison injection combo is enough to kill a mob. I get it in dungeons it can be annoying, but dolmens? Really!? Overland PvE is where it should be accepted that players can play any way they want.

@Danksta ... This dude cries about everything. Just look at the post history.

Play how you want. Have fun. Avoid toxic peeps like the OP. And if they whisper you in game that your build sucks, throw a few mud balls their way, laugh, and move on.

Hm? I'm toxic? What? The personal attacks are real on these forums. Now supposedly I'm elitist and toxic, all because I had an issue with people using bow builds and or double bows. Lol. Wow. These forums are a riot sometimes.

Yes, you are toxic. You troll people. When presented facts showing that what you said is wrong - you don't debate and just ignore them and pretend they were never posted. You are a troll and should be banned. I don't understand why that didn't happen yet.

Not enough reports, everyone. Everybody should pitch in, don't think that others will be enough, do your part too.

exeeter702

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

User_Name wrote: »

When I am fighting a world boss or doing dolmens, and one of those light attack bow builds turn up, I sometimes cloak and let the NPC's aggro him instead. Maybe that's cruel, but a lot of bow types are just +1'ers, not really doing anything for neither themselves nor anyone else, just leeching, and if the NPC's insta him anyways the moment they turn on him I think it's fair to assume he wasn't really pulling his weight. Maybe it's bad. Maybe ESO made me a petty person, lol.

I don't even blame you. I honestly don't. And between you and me? I'm contemplating doing something similar when they come along from now on.

It looks to me you created DISCUSSION and then do everything in your power to ignore all counter facts to your view, yet have time to give pat on the back to anyone who agrees with you.

@sodantokb16_ESO Hm? I did what now? I beg to differ. If you look throughout this thread, I've agreed with a few people here and there with a difference of opinion than mine. I even said how I'm over stressing what people do in overland content, as in the end — it is what it is. Which is overland content. If people get a thrill out of using bow builds and double bows, then whatever. If people want to use said things in dungeons (normal and or veteran), then so be it. As I can easily remedy this frustration by continuing to easily solo content, and or play with friends/guildies. Therefore not subjecting myself to something that I dislike, or even giving the opportunity for me to be exposed to a possibly nuisance.

Also, this thread generated a bit of insightful responses, in my opinion. It in a sense gave me a bit more of a insight as to where the community stands toward certain things (forum-wise), and their said feelings. All of which pretty educational. Do I agree with the majority of it? No. But that's okay too, as this IS a forum at the end of the day. A place where I will come into contact with things that I may disagree with and dislike. But, am I going to make personal attacks like some people here have and be immaturity about things? N'ah, not really. Lol. I'm just going to go about handling things how I do choose, and as I've been handling them. That's all.

Oh, and by the way. A bit off-topic, but a huge shoutout to the admins and mods of these forums who keep the nonsense at a bare minimum and keep things clean. Y'all the real MVP, and if I could I'd give you guys awesome for days. You all make these forums less like 4chan, and I dig that a lot. Big ups to you guys.

Sorry dude can't worm yourself out of this one.

You clearly have a prejudice against bow users, and claimed in your OP that bow builds are not viable. Dispite the numerous evidence against these claims that you ignore for whatever reason.

Instead of whining grow up and lets discuss how bow can be improved to be a main weapon OR state your reasoning as to why it shouldn't be one.

@Anti_Virus 1 question, and 1 question only... How could I have a prejudice against bow users, when every stamina-based character I have utilizes a bow as their main hand backup? Actually, don't answer that. I don't feel like walking in circles anymore. People will think what they want to think, and that's fine. If people feel as though bow builds are viable? That's fine. Do I feel so? No. And that's fine.

Admins and mods, you can close this thread if you'd feel it best for the forums. I'm tired of people's personal attacks, and being forced to place numerous people on ignore for them. I figured it could be a civilized debate/discussion, but as always with my threads — people have to resort to pettiness and personal attacks. As well as straight forward rudeness. And honestly? It's a Friday. Things are amazing. I got my second sharpened Moondancer inferno staff, as well as helped a buddy get their skin. Things are wonderful, and I just don't feel like being brought down with the pettiness and negativity.

@Ch4mpTW 1 question, and 1 question only... Why are you still steadfastly failing to address the pure bow builds that have been shown in this thread to produce end-game level DPS? I've lost count of how many times people have asked you to comment on them (including the post that you were just replying to - and yet somehow in your reply you completely ignored that).

@UrQuan I have no idea what my comment on it will do for said people, but want my comment on it?

Alright. Here's my comment: "Cool. You were able to suppy solid DPS with a bow build, and or know a few people here and there out of thousands to do so. Great. I hope you continue doing what makes you happy, even if that is using bow builds. Whatever floats your boat. Will I use a bow build? Hell no. Will I ever attempt 1? Nope. Lol. Will those I run with do so? Never. Is that a diss to bow builds? Not even close." There. There is my statement.

If people love bow builds, or bows, or snipers, or whatever so much that they even bring them into trial runs such as VMoL or leaderboard runs. That's absolutely fine, so long as it has nothing to do with me. That's all.

As for do I want ZOS to buff bows? Sure. Why not. I mean I use them on my back bar, so why not? It couldn't hurt, in my opinion. So why not make them stronger, if so many people wish for it to be so.

Hopefully that will satisfy those who repeatedly asking for take on things, and asking for me to comment on it. And I'll say it again, just in case if people misread it. If you like bow builds, and can pull amazing numbers with it some how, that's great. Fantastic. Continue to do you, and do what makes you smile. All I ask is that if by some off chance we are grouped up by some means or another, all I ask is you do NOT use double bows. That's all.

Edit: And for those who believe I'm this super elitist snob, who believes in following a strict meta? And is super toxic towards those whom are different? You're entitled to believe whatever it is you wish to believe. Although, I can only speak for myself that I am actually the polar opposite of that. And anyone who is active on the forums, but also plays with me in-game can say the same exact thing about me such as: @Mortehl @Vaoh @SublimeSparo @UltimaJoe777 and many more who's forum handles I can't remember off the top of my was. As again I myself have been known to do things out of the usual. I mean, I got Flawless Conqueror with a pet build. Way before all the benefits and buffs it received, and always preferred pet builds to the typical run of the mill Sorcerers. So that alone should speak volumes. But again, it is what it is. Knock yourselves out.

sorry but you dont get to spin it that way after the fact...

Your initial post was in regards to players using bow builds in dolmens amongst other areas... You demonstrated a very clear bias against them. Likewise your post was written in the tune of attempting to get as many people to agree with your point of view that bow / bow builds are absolutely not viable. Now you are saying that exclusively for yourself, you will chose not to group with bow builds and that if others want to do it, it is perfectly fine, whatever floats their boat?

Stop with the contradictions.

40K dps self buffed is absolutely solid, its just that simple.

The only issue here, is that the bow skill line is slightly undertuned for sustained dps and that ZOS continues to do a terrible job educating (via IN GAME) new players on what exactly should be expected of them under each role if they chose to partake in more challenging group content.

The hawk eye buff does nothing for pvp, VERY little for overworld pve and was not an accident.

Ch4mpTW

Artis wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Games are balanced around endgame content. Bows are not viable at that level.

Complaining about bows will hopefully get ZOS to buff/change them.

1. Yes they are, the builds and screenshots are linked in this thread. 39k unbuffed is more than any magicka build will pull.
2. What is viable then? DW? Well DW-DW on both bars is suboptimal just like Bow-Bow and will work worse than DW+Bow just like bow-bow. So Bow is viable. It's one of BiS stamina weapon types that every stamina DPS runs. So what is not viable again?

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Meri20098 wrote: »

I use a bow and DW

I do as well on my stamina characters. I use DW on my front bar, and bow on my back bar. And have had tons of success with it in a PvE environment (both solo and in groups).

@Ch4mpTW stop replying selectively. People proved you wrong multiple times with builds and screenshots in this thread, yet you ignored all those comments and only answer to others. You're wrong, so go away. Or explain why you're not.

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Are you really crying about how people play at dolmens?? That's one of the places it's ok to play as you want because others aren't relying on you. On top of that a heavy attack/poison injection combo is enough to kill a mob. I get it in dungeons it can be annoying, but dolmens? Really!? Overland PvE is where it should be accepted that players can play any way they want.

@Danksta ... This dude cries about everything. Just look at the post history.

Play how you want. Have fun. Avoid toxic peeps like the OP. And if they whisper you in game that your build sucks, throw a few mud balls their way, laugh, and move on.

Hm? I'm toxic? What? The personal attacks are real on these forums. Now supposedly I'm elitist and toxic, all because I had an issue with people using bow builds and or double bows. Lol. Wow. These forums are a riot sometimes.

Yes, you are toxic. You troll people. When presented facts showing that what you said is wrong - you don't debate and just ignore them and pretend they were never posted. You are a troll and should be banned. I don't understand why that didn't happen yet.

Not enough reports, everyone. Everybody should pitch in, don't think that others will be enough, do your part too.

@Artis Now you're flat out calling people trolls, and stating that they should be banned? Really? Really now? This thread has brought out so much in people that things have become that petty...? People have made personal attacks to me numerous on this thread, and have had quite a few posts removed because of it. Meanwhile, I've not made a single 1. And yet, I should be banned because of my OPINION on bow builds? Lmao.

I don't know if you can tell from my response to @UrQuan but I've reached a point where as I just don't care anymore. Lol. If people want to use bow builds, and do this and that. That's great. All I ask is that they don't do it IF grouped with me. And IF by a chance I do end-up grouped with a player like that? I will ask them to change-up their setup politely and respectfully. Simply out of my personal preference and comfort. And if they refuse? That's fine. I'll simply drop group. Problem solved. No drama. No back and forth. No rudeness. Just simply me removing myself from something that I just don't want to be apart of.

If people want to defend bow builds? That's fine too. By all means. You have that right. If you want use bow builds. Most excellent. Do whatever floats your boat. You have that entitlement and right as well, but just understand that I just don't care anymore. I. Don't. Care. Lol. Use bow builds any and everywhere, just understand I don't want to be around it. And I won't be. Nor can anyone force me to be. And NO amount of data shown to me will change my views on wanting to be around it. Simply because I'm allowed to have opinions of what I dislike and like. And if someone dislikes it? That's fine. They're entitled to dislike it. Cool. But, all I ask is that people be civilized about it. If you cross the line of being civil or mature about things, then problems usually escalate. And honestly, it's not worth it in the end.

idk

@Artis

Worthy try. However, those claiming bow is weak would rather keep their head in the sand rather than notice and acknowledge the facts of how it performs or come up with excuses that lack basis to support them.

It's why they ignore most posts like yours and merely pat each other on the back or reply to messages that didn't have include the hard details the choose to ignore.

Ch4mpTW

@Giles.floydub17_ESO Isn't it enough for a person to just not want to be bothered with something, and or subjected to something? Can't they have that preference? I mean sure, there are some people who will continue to denounce hard data given to them and all this and that. But at this point, I in particular am not even saying that. I just simply don't want to be included within a group in which something is being done. I'm pretty sure I as well as the others who agree with me have that entitlement to decided whether or not we want to be around something or not. In fact, you do as well.

It's not a matter anymore of me feeling as though they're subpar this and that, because someone has shown that there are people who can do pretty solid damage with bow builds. And I think that's great, and great for those whom wish to go about doing things like that. But I just don't care enough to be bothered with it. That's all. Simply out of what is comforting to me, as I explained to @Artis. Just as if I'm using a build or something that you find a bit off or bizarre, you have that right to feel the same exact way.

And honestly? If that were the case? I would not be making the personal attacks and rude remarks toward those people as others have directed toward me on this very thread. Why? Because it's called decency. It's called being civilized, and having respect. I'm not going to sit here and call you a troll, and say you need to be banned. I'm not going to call you toxic, and an elitist. Because it's unnecessary and you're ENTITLED to YOUR opinion. And I'm noticing from this very thread that people just refuse to acknowledge that others have that to a preference. Whether we like their preference or not. That doesn't matter.

STEVIL

#altbowfacts

ThePaleItalian

STEVIL wrote: »

#altbowfacts

#bowmanlivesmatter

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings all,

We have decided to keep this thread closed due to the amount of Baiting, Flaming, as well as the thread being far from civil and constructive. Given this is the case, we would like to advise that everyone review the Community Rules to help keep the forums a civil and constructive place. Thank you for your understanding!