Streamers who went to zenimax

DrkHunter86 · February 2017

Woeler wrote: »

They signed an NDA. You will probably hear little or nothing at all.

NDA forces them too stay quiet. I'd assume zos will say more before they get too say anything. The people ive listened too though,while not saying anything in particular have said they where impressed.

StackonClown · February 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

Surely there must be a way to find expert players who "get into math and numbers" while still excluding players that are making a living from trying to help players exploit game imbalance, not just videos for views.., but actually charging hundreds of dollars to individuals for expert training.

I don't understand why these are treated as mutually exclusive.

I have no problem with players profiting or charging others for their expertise.
And I have no problem with Zos looking for experts to help balance the game.

But they should be different experts. The appearance of impropriety should exclude those individuals from participation.

Food for thought: Why should players who stream the game be excluded if they are just as knowledgable and passionate as someone who doesn't stream? We included both.

Can you please define 'knowledgeable' and 'passionate'?
How did you make this determination?
Was there an interview process or application or something?

You also mentioned in an earlier post:

"In general, we were looking for theorycrafters,
players who know the game inside and out,
and those who really get into the math and numbers. "

Why the focus on this?
Is this what this game is about now?
I cetainly dont see any ESO ads which talk about 'getting into math and numbers'.
I play for fun!

What percentage of your player base actually fit these subjective criteria? maybe 0.001 % ??

I mean how do you determine if someone knows 'the game inside and out'.
Don't you want to know how the 'rest' and the overwhelming majority of your player base react to new content? Or are we just here to sub to ESO+ and buy crowns ?

Essentially you are interested in an extremely tiny minority of 'Pro Players'?

While I see this has its place perhaps, don't you people see that you are alienating the overwhelming majority of your players by essentially announcing that you are giving prominence to an event for Pro Players to discuss new content, but they cant discuss it anyway?

What about the concerns of the rest of us?
With all the secrecy around this, and the NDA's can I ask, why did you even bother to announce this?

By all means go ahead and have as many of these events as you want - but just don't announce it.
It adds nothing for the rest of us except generate ill-will and promote elitism.
Otherwise please list the tangible benefits of making such announcements about NDA restricted events.

As many people have said, these players don't represent us, they certainly don't represent me, so I am not represented by what feedback they have.

TLDR: We need to celebrate fixing the major issues players experience with ESO and give it prominence in the same way that we celebrate other activities such as player events and releases of new content.

Shimmer · February 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

Surely there must be a way to find expert players who "get into math and numbers" while still excluding players that are making a living from trying to help players exploit game imbalance, not just videos for views.., but actually charging hundreds of dollars to individuals for expert training.

I don't understand why these are treated as mutually exclusive.

I have no problem with players profiting or charging others for their expertise.
And I have no problem with Zos looking for experts to help balance the game.

But they should be different experts. The appearance of impropriety should exclude those individuals from participation.

Food for thought: Why should players who stream the game be excluded if they are just as knowledgable and passionate as someone who doesn't stream? We included both.

olivesforge · February 2017

StackonClown wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

Surely there must be a way to find expert players who "get into math and numbers" while still excluding players that are making a living from trying to help players exploit game imbalance, not just videos for views.., but actually charging hundreds of dollars to individuals for expert training.

I don't understand why these are treated as mutually exclusive.

I have no problem with players profiting or charging others for their expertise.
And I have no problem with Zos looking for experts to help balance the game.

But they should be different experts. The appearance of impropriety should exclude those individuals from participation.

Food for thought: Why should players who stream the game be excluded if they are just as knowledgable and passionate as someone who doesn't stream? We included both.

Can you please define 'knowledgeable' and 'passionate'?
How did you make this determination?
Was there an interview process or application or something?

You also mentioned in an earlier post:

"In general, we were looking for theorycrafters,
players who know the game inside and out,
and those who really get into the math and numbers. "

Why the focus on this?
Is this what this game is about now?
I cetainly dont see any ESO ads which talk about 'getting into math and numbers'.
I play for fun!

What percentage of your player base actually fit these subjective criteria? maybe 0.001 % ??

I mean how do you determine if someone knows 'the game inside and out'.
Don't you want to know how the 'rest' and the overwhelming majority of your player base react to new content? Or are we just here to sub to ESO+ and buy crowns ?

Essentially you are interested in an extremely tiny minority of 'Pro Players'?

While I see this has its place perhaps, don't you people see that you are alienating the overwhelming majority of your players by essentially announcing that you are giving prominence to an event for Pro Players to discuss new content, but they cant discuss it anyway?

What about the concerns of the rest of us?
With all the secrecy around this, and the NDA's can I ask, why did you even bother to announce this?

By all means go ahead and have as many of these events as you want - but just don't announce it.
It adds nothing for the rest of us except generate ill-will and promote elitism.
Otherwise please list the tangible benefits of making such announcements about NDA restricted events.

As many people have said, these players don't represent us, they certainly don't represent me, so I am not represented by what feedback they have.

TLDR: We need to celebrate fixing the major issues players experience with ESO and give it prominence in the same way that we celebrate other activities such as player events and releases of new content.

TL;DR poster is angry that Zenimax didn't invite 100,000 people to work on his specific problems with the game.

StackonClown · February 2017

olivesforge wrote: »

StackonClown wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

Surely there must be a way to find expert players who "get into math and numbers" while still excluding players that are making a living from trying to help players exploit game imbalance, not just videos for views.., but actually charging hundreds of dollars to individuals for expert training.

I don't understand why these are treated as mutually exclusive.

I have no problem with players profiting or charging others for their expertise.
And I have no problem with Zos looking for experts to help balance the game.

But they should be different experts. The appearance of impropriety should exclude those individuals from participation.

Food for thought: Why should players who stream the game be excluded if they are just as knowledgable and passionate as someone who doesn't stream? We included both.

Can you please define 'knowledgeable' and 'passionate'?
How did you make this determination?
Was there an interview process or application or something?

You also mentioned in an earlier post:

"In general, we were looking for theorycrafters,
players who know the game inside and out,
and those who really get into the math and numbers. "

Why the focus on this?
Is this what this game is about now?
I cetainly dont see any ESO ads which talk about 'getting into math and numbers'.
I play for fun!

What percentage of your player base actually fit these subjective criteria? maybe 0.001 % ??

I mean how do you determine if someone knows 'the game inside and out'.
Don't you want to know how the 'rest' and the overwhelming majority of your player base react to new content? Or are we just here to sub to ESO+ and buy crowns ?

Essentially you are interested in an extremely tiny minority of 'Pro Players'?

While I see this has its place perhaps, don't you people see that you are alienating the overwhelming majority of your players by essentially announcing that you are giving prominence to an event for Pro Players to discuss new content, but they cant discuss it anyway?

What about the concerns of the rest of us?
With all the secrecy around this, and the NDA's can I ask, why did you even bother to announce this?

By all means go ahead and have as many of these events as you want - but just don't announce it.
It adds nothing for the rest of us except generate ill-will and promote elitism.
Otherwise please list the tangible benefits of making such announcements about NDA restricted events.

As many people have said, these players don't represent us, they certainly don't represent me, so I am not represented by what feedback they have.

TLDR: We need to celebrate fixing the major issues players experience with ESO and give it prominence in the same way that we celebrate other activities such as player events and releases of new content.

TL;DR poster is angry that Zenimax didn't invite 100,000 people to work on his specific problems with the game.

In not angry - lol, its a game.. Who said 100,000? you, not me... Who said my specific problems? - read the forums.. there serious issues that are getting very little attention...

paulsimonps · February 2017

@willlienellson

You claim they only invited celebrity streamers that make money on others and that their opinions will not give good feedback. But let me ask you this: Do you know who I am? Would you consider me a celebrity streamer? Cause I don't class myself as such cause I don't stream and most don't know me. I was invited, I was there play-testing with the others. Not everyone there was a big name streamer you know. They didn't post peoples names so just cause you heard that big names were there doesn't mean it was only them.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · February 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi guys,

First, just to clarify, the event last week wasn't exclusively for streamers. Yes, there were some streamers present, but there were also other content creators, and some that only post on the forums and never show their face. In general, we were looking for theorycrafters, players who know the game inside and out, and those who really get into the math and numbers. We also wanted a good mix of PvP and PvE players, and make sure all platforms were accounted for. All in all, we felt we met these goals.

We invited these players to give us some early feedback specifically on the Warden and battlegrounds. We also had a larger open Q&A about the game in general for a couple hours on their last day. While it's true they are currently under an NDA, they will be able to talk more about their experiences at the studio in just a couple weeks.

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Surprised they invited Fengrush. Surprised he even went. Last vids I watched of him he was giving them harsh, constructive criticism. Maybe it's a love hate relationship...

Not everyone who was invited give us nothing but glowing reviews. But, like you said, Fengrush does give us constructive criticism, and that's ok. He is extremely knowledgable and passionate about the game, which was what we were looking for.

What? No invites for overly cynical grumpy wise asses? We play the game too!!

willlienellson · February 2017

Sylance9 wrote: »

LOL. That's hilarious.

In my post (that she replied to) I said they were experts and then said why they should have been excluded anyway.

She then replied that they were experts (which I already said) and asked why not include them (which was the premise of my post).

That's a drop-mic conversation ending comment huh? lol

willlienellson · February 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

@willlienellson
You claim they only invited celebrity streamers

No. I don't claim that.

paulsimonps wrote: »

@I was invited, I was there play-testing with the others.

Awesome.

Is the primary reason you play this game to enjoy it or to profit from it?
If it's the former then I'm glad you were there and I hope you helped produce a better balanced game.

Brittany_Joy · February 2017

runagate wrote: »

There's a Warden spell that summons a plant that explodes when it's done growing.

So is that plant directed by Micheal Bay?

willlienellson · February 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

I think you are vastly overstating the profit certain players make from training other players.

Exactly how much profit is needed before it's okay to start judging the actions of businesses which have the primary motivation of...profit?

Chadak · February 2017

I...have a hard time finding a gripe over any of this.

Streamers are out there and identifiable. They're not the only ones, but here's an example for contrast - myself.

How would Zenimax have a clue if I'm a passionate theorycrafter? I don't post anything to those ends. I don't create anything anywhere for anyone to know about it if I am.

I kinda get the tiniest little impression that some folks on this thread somehow feel slighted because they too aren't out there and visible in any meaningful fashion and, thus, aren't ever going to get tapped for things like this.

Wanna potentially get tapped for things like this? Write a blog about the game. Share your thoughts. Give technical analysis if you're capable; give opinions if opinions are all you've actually got.

Are you a fancyface buildmeister that knows what's up about classes, builds and how to build/gear for endgame, pvp, etcetera, something, so on? Get out there in some form or another, try to find an audience, engage that audience if you're able.

To my thinking, the folks that get tapped for these sorts of things have almost invariably done something to merit a dev company's attention.

Folks like me? I don't want to do that. Sure, I think it'd be cool if a company like Zenimax called one day and were all like 'Gosh, Chadak, your random and informal opinions on the forum sure stood out. How about we fly you out here and show you neat stuff.'

Why would they do that though? What's in it for them, when I've cultivated no platform to eventually evangelize their product from and am just some shmoe on the forum that occasionally chimes in, most of the time unconstructively, on opinion threads?

It wouldn't make any sense. And they'd just about have to be psychic in order to tell anything else about me.

Thus, I feel I'm a great example of a fairly typical gamer that will never get tapped to go to dev studios and get to preview stuff and ask questions.

I'm also really quite ok with that, because neat as it would be, I have a pretty busy life and I don't like disruptions to too much of it.

paulsimonps · February 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

@willlienellson
You claim they only invited celebrity streamers

No. I don't claim that.

paulsimonps wrote: »

@I was invited, I was there play-testing with the others.

Awesome.

Is the primary reason you play this game to enjoy it or to profit from it?
If it's the former then I'm glad you were there and I hope you helped produce a better balanced game.

I don't make any money from this game. I do this cause I love it and theory crafting makes me happy. And a lot of those streamers you are angry about think in the same way. And I am a bit confused, who exactly is making people pay 300+ dollars for teaching them things?

willlienellson wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

I think you are vastly overstating the profit certain players make from training other players.

Exactly how much profit is needed before it's okay to start judging the actions of businesses which have the primary motivation of...profit?

You quoted the wrong person there, I didn't say that, ColoursYouHave did.

leepalmer95 · February 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

I think you are vastly overstating the profit certain players make from training other players.

Exactly how much profit is needed before it's okay to start judging the actions of businesses which have the primary motivation of...profit?

Im pretty sure it would be in most of the streamers interests to improve the game balance simply because as you sad they make money off it.

Wouldn't it be better for them to improve the balance in pvp to the point players will come back to it? Especially if they mainly stream pvp?

I'm pretty sure people would carefully consider the right feedback and such if the health of the game was tied with their livelyhood.

Why would they 'intentionally' give bad feedback to open the gap between high end players and casuals when everyone knows 99.9% of this game is casual players, that mostly casual players watch their youtubes, guides, builds etc...? When zos has specifically stated their aim is to lower the range of players?

Nah, your responses basically scream to me you either petty or upset that you didn't get invited.

ColoursYouHave · February 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

I think you are vastly overstating the profit certain players make from training other players.

Exactly how much profit is needed before it's okay to start judging the actions of businesses which have the primary motivation of...profit?

Enough to justify them caring more about that profit than the health of the game. Sure, if people were making tens of thousands of dollars per year giving PVP lessons, I could see there being a conflict of interests. But we're talking like, $1000-$2000 per year here, when these guys might be making at least 2-3 times that much in a month by having people watch and subscribe to their streams. If you had a job you really enjoyed, and say you're making $20/hr, would you purposefully try to "sabotage" your own workplace for an additional $.75-$1 per hour?

willlienellson · February 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

You quoted the wrong person there, I didn't say that, ColoursYouHave did.

Sorry about that, copy/paste mistake.

paulsimonps wrote: »

I don't make any money from this game. I do this cause I love it and theory crafting makes me happy. And a lot of those streamers you are angry about think in the same way.

That's entirely beside the point. What if they didn't think that way? That's why businesses, governments, and adults in general try to avoid the appearance of impropriety, so you don't have to vouch for motivations and feeeeeelings which are matters of intuition.

paulsimonps wrote: »

And I am a bit confused, who exactly is making people pay 300+ dollars for teaching them things?

I want to be very careful and specific in my language. Nobody is MAKING someone pay 300+ dollars for anything.
But some of the same people that are making money with viewers watching their insight into game play have gone further and actually set up websites offering 1on1 training sessions that are supposed to make you an elite players for up to $400 per person.

To me, personally, I find it absurd that people are profiting directly from helping players cross a performance gap would have extra influence in managing/developing that very gap because of the implications for POTENTIAL abuse.

Cpt_Teemo · February 2017

Sylance9 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

Surely there must be a way to find expert players who "get into math and numbers" while still excluding players that are making a living from trying to help players exploit game imbalance, not just videos for views.., but actually charging hundreds of dollars to individuals for expert training.

I don't understand why these are treated as mutually exclusive.

I have no problem with players profiting or charging others for their expertise.
And I have no problem with Zos looking for experts to help balance the game.

But they should be different experts. The appearance of impropriety should exclude those individuals from participation.

Food for thought: Why should players who stream the game be excluded if they are just as knowledgable and passionate as someone who doesn't stream? We included both.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op2iMSGskN8

willlienellson · February 2017

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Enough to justify them caring more about that profit than the health of the game. Sure, if people were making tens of thousands of dollars per year giving PVP lessons, I could see there being a conflict of interests. But we're talking like, $1000-$2000 per year here, when these guys might be making at least 2-3 times that much in a month by having people watch and subscribe to their streams. If you had a job you really enjoyed, and say you're making $20/hr, would you purposefully try to "sabotage" your own workplace for an additional $.75-$1 per hour?

I can't believe you actually presumed to give me a number. lol

The idea that you know how much money it would take to influence the behavior of someone (several people in this case) is silly. It's totally naive.

That's to say nothing of the fact that you almost certainly have no earthly idea how much all these various guys earn from their various services. It's all so absurd.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Im pretty sure it would be in most of the streamers interests to improve the game balance simply because as you sad they make money off it.

So, here's a quote from the Comedy Kingpin where Woody Harrelson responds to someone that told him smoking is bad.

"Is that right? Who's done more research on the subject than the good people at the American Tobacco Industry? They say it's harmless. Why would they lie? If you're dead, you can't smoke".

It's funny for the same reason what you wrote is wrong.

ColoursYouHave · February 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Enough to justify them caring more about that profit than the health of the game. Sure, if people were making tens of thousands of dollars per year giving PVP lessons, I could see there being a conflict of interests. But we're talking like, $1000-$2000 per year here, when these guys might be making at least 2-3 times that much in a month by having people watch and subscribe to their streams. If you had a job you really enjoyed, and say you're making $20/hr, would you purposefully try to "sabotage" your own workplace for an additional $.75-$1 per hour?

That's to say nothing of the fact that you almost certainly have no earthly idea how much all these various guys earn from their various services. It's all so absurd.

You can easily figure out how much the person you're talking about makes from PVP lessons, as well as get a rough estimate of how much they make in Twitch revenue.

leepalmer95 · February 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Enough to justify them caring more about that profit than the health of the game. Sure, if people were making tens of thousands of dollars per year giving PVP lessons, I could see there being a conflict of interests. But we're talking like, $1000-$2000 per year here, when these guys might be making at least 2-3 times that much in a month by having people watch and subscribe to their streams. If you had a job you really enjoyed, and say you're making $20/hr, would you purposefully try to "sabotage" your own workplace for an additional $.75-$1 per hour?

I can't believe you actually presumed to give me a number. lol

The idea that you know how much money it would take to influence the behavior of someone (several people in this case) is silly. It's totally naive.

That's to say nothing of the fact that you almost certainly have no earthly idea how much all these various guys earn from their various services. It's all so absurd.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Im pretty sure it would be in most of the streamers interests to improve the game balance simply because as you sad they make money off it.

So, here's a quote from the Comedy Kingpin where Woody Harrelson responds to someone that told him smoking is bad.

"Is that right? Who's done more research on the subject than the good people at the American Tobacco Industry? They say it's harmless. Why would they lie? If you're dead, you can't smoke".

It's funny for the same reason what you wrote is wrong.

Yeah sure hit me with a quote from a comedian. Good job.

FENGRUSH · February 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Enough to justify them caring more about that profit than the health of the game. Sure, if people were making tens of thousands of dollars per year giving PVP lessons, I could see there being a conflict of interests. But we're talking like, $1000-$2000 per year here, when these guys might be making at least 2-3 times that much in a month by having people watch and subscribe to their streams. If you had a job you really enjoyed, and say you're making $20/hr, would you purposefully try to "sabotage" your own workplace for an additional $.75-$1 per hour?

I can't believe you actually presumed to give me a number. lol

The idea that you know how much money it would take to influence the behavior of someone (several people in this case) is silly. It's totally naive.

That's to say nothing of the fact that you almost certainly have no earthly idea how much all these various guys earn from their various services. It's all so absurd.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Im pretty sure it would be in most of the streamers interests to improve the game balance simply because as you sad they make money off it.

So, here's a quote from the Comedy Kingpin where Woody Harrelson responds to someone that told him smoking is bad.

"Is that right? Who's done more research on the subject than the good people at the American Tobacco Industry? They say it's harmless. Why would they lie? If you're dead, you can't smoke".

It's funny for the same reason what you wrote is wrong.

Dang youre still going at it? I thought after the thread you made of how 1 of <X> players may have been banned before and therefore they may be cheaters and therefore they should not be invited to ZOS would be enough. Please continue creating false associations with the players you dont know much about and making wild acceptations in your dream world.

Im still interested in seeing you answer the question you avoided before - can you put forth an actual list of players who should have been for us all?

Rohamad_Ali · February 2017

How much does Fengrush charge for PVP lessons ? I don't need a Sypher zero to hero plan . I need a mediocre to No joker Groupon deal .

runagate · February 2017

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Im still interested in seeing you answer the question you avoided before - can you put forth an actual list of players who should have been for us all?

I immediately, off the top of my head, knew who I'd have chosen:

@code65536
@Paulington
@Yolokin_Swagonborn
@NightbladeMechanics
@SantieClaws

Covers all the bases you need. Note that IRL those people probably shouldn't be put into the same room.

anitajoneb17_ESO · February 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

I don't make any money from this game. I do this cause I love it and theory crafting makes me happy. And a lot of those streamers you are angry about think in the same way. And I am a bit confused, who exactly is making people pay 300+ dollars for teaching them things?

I didn't believe it either, but after a bit of research, I found a website where two of the people who were in last week's gathering actually offer and promote 1on1 teaching of the game for 400$. I won't provide names or links because of the "naming-shaming" thing. I guess it is their right to offer such services. And I don't know if they have actual customers for that kind of services. But the offer exists.

The problem is that the game would, in my opinion, benefit greatly from 1) simplification of all this number things 2) narrowing the gap between casual/hardcore or bad/good.

Obviously the feedback provided by those two people is likely to be biased by the need to make their services MORE useful and not less. They would advocate for calculations to be even more complex and the gap between players to be even wider.

That's where there is an obvious conflict of interest and @willlienellson is correct to point it out. It's not about everyone who was there, not even about streamers, but it applies to people offering teaching services for real money.

That being said, I think ZOS knows, and can take the bias into consideration when using the feedback provided. And according to Rich Lambert's recent statements, he's also aware of the necessity to streamline things a bit and to narrow the gap between players.

SantieClaws · February 2017

It would be difficult for the human alt to attend anywhere personally due to the work and some physical limitations on being able to travel easily.

Also honestly this one waves her paws about and hopes to hit things. That is the extent of her skill yes. At the weekend this one mistook a lamia for an ore node. Khajiit is not sure she is quite the sort of tester they look for yes.

Anyway you know that this one she has never been oh so shy about expressing the options on anything so there is nothing khajiit would say differently if she were there or if she is here yes.

Perhaps there may be a chance for khajiit to travel to Test Morrowind at some point in the usual manner and if so khajiit will do so with an open heart and open mind despite the fact it probably smells terribly of the elves.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

NightbladeMechanics · February 2017

runagate wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Im still interested in seeing you answer the question you avoided before - can you put forth an actual list of players who should have been for us all?

I immediately, off the top of my head, knew who I'd have chosen:

@code65536
@Paulington
@Yolokin_Swagonborn
@NightbladeMechanics
@SantieClaws

Covers all the bases you need. Note that IRL those people probably shouldn't be put into the same room.

@SantieClaws and @Yolokin_Swagonborn strike me as pleasant and hilarious people irl.

Also I can mediate a civil and productive meeting out of anyone.

makeumrage · February 2017

So the basic complaint is more average joes or amatuers should be chosen? I think its a much smarter choice to take the people who do it for a profession. That makes them "professionals" by definition correct? Also remember there videos and streams are free. People chose to reward them or support them for there time. There much like anyone else uou would have sent or yourself if your saying you should have been. Only difference is they may have been more successful at doing it in a way that could also benefit them financially. Dont be so salty. Be glad they actually reached out for feedback and gave people the opportunity to help make this update better.

anitajoneb17_ESO · February 2017

makeumrage wrote: »

So the basic complaint is more average joes or amatuers should be chosen? I think its a much smarter choice to take the people who do it for a profession.

When you plan to purchase a car, do you take advice from independent consumer reviews and specialized press, or from that guy who sells cars of one particular brand ?

Titansteele · February 2017

Some clever people at ZOS ......

Check out the keyboard warriors, happy to shout and scream from the safety of their bedrooms but when they are face to face with the people they attacked with such guile yet they are as meek as kittens.

Poor wee lambs

makeumrage · February 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

makeumrage wrote: »

So the basic complaint is more average joes or amatuers should be chosen? I think its a much smarter choice to take the people who do it for a profession.

When you plan to purchase a car, do you take advice from independent consumer reviews and specialized press, or from that guy who sells cars of one particular brand ?

Neither, I take advice from my auto shop man. He knows very well what ones hold up, how often he sees certain others and all the ins and outs.

Most people know those independent reviews arent so independent, and that guy is trying to sell something. But your analogy is invalid. Streamers arent salesmen. There more like my auto shop man. They work with the races, builds and characters. They know what works and what doesnt. When it fails and when it wont. What works best for certain situatioms. And yeah, for special things other then free advice they might charge. But information is free.

Heres to hoping everyone got some kinda of compensation for going. Be it crowns or money. Since Deltia helped himself to all the salad.