Cyrodiil is strategic GvG, not BF1 or CoD

ChaosWotan
ChaosWotan
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Everyone who takes a quick look at Cyrodiil will notice that this is a siege game where the objective is to take keeps and resources. It's a strategy game, a bit similar to Company of Heroes. It's not primarily like CoD or BF1, but many treat it as it was, prb because ESO gives them the freedom to do so, instead of making strategic GvG training mandatory when entering Cyrodiil the first time.

For example, teaching players that if they stay within the healing area of the crown/train, they will survive longer. And that stacking at crown is more important than attacking solo, if you want to win the campaign. A mandatory tutorial should also give information about installing and using TS and the Exterminatus addon.

Many solo players whine about strategy being boring, and that xv1 is lame, but then either play another game than ESO, or accept that a siege game like this was never designed to primarily be a battlefield where solo players can take keeps and resources alone. Instead, Cyrodiil is mainly a team game, like football, not skateboarding.

If you want realism or want to stay true to the game lore, you should realise that a solo player complaining about being killed by a large group in Cyrodiil is like a ninja or solo terrorist whining about how unfair, boring and unbalanced it is to get killed by a group of Samurais or a SWAT team. Yeah, it's "unbalanced', but that's real warfare, and the reason why few people in real life run around solo on a battlefield.

In real life, in a bloody conflict, everyone knows that "together we stand, divided we fall", but many players in Cyrodiil don't understand this very simple principle, or they simply refuse to follow it because it's "boring". Well, the reason it feels boring is prb because 1) you have not been in a good GvG guild using TS, 2) you think strategy games in general are boring, or 3) ESO has not provided new challenges in Cyrodiil the last two years. The last reason is a good argument, but the first two should make you think twice about the intended gameplay design of Cyrodiil.

Cyrodiil is a bit like Tour the France. You look like a fool if you start whining when others tell you that it's against the rules to use an off-road bike down the mountains. It's a team effort, and you have to stay on track. ESO, however, gives you the freedom to also be a solo player, but then you better be damn good at it and accept the environment you are playing in.

What Cyrodiil has shown us so far is that mixing strategic gamers and (casual) solo players is not working very well. When Morrowind introduces battlegrounds one can always hope that CoD players go there while strategic gamers stay in Cyrodiil.

Edited by ChaosWotan on February 8, 2017 1:13PM
  • MalakithAlamahdi
    MalakithAlamahdi
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    I like ESO's pvp. I've never played a game before with such indebt player vs proc combat.
  • Seraphayel
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    Cyrodiil is a gigantic zerg with massive performance and balancing issues, nothing else.
    PS5
    EU
    Aldmeri Dominion
    - Khajiit Arcanist -
  • Cadbury
    Cadbury
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    I feel like the players who should see this won't...
    "If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."
  • luen79rwb17_ESO
    luen79rwb17_ESO
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    I believe there's Room for everyone.

    Just because you like zergs doesn't mean you have to ditch solo/small group players and viceversa.
    PC/DC/NAserver

    V16 sorc - V16 temp - V16 dk - V1 nb - V1 temp - V1 dk
  • ChaosWotan
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    A zerg is not the same as an organised group. Zergs cause a lot of lag since servers can't handle it. Morrowind and it's battleground will hopefully reduce the number of randoms in Cyrodiil.

    Casual gamers will not read this thread, and that's why a strategic GvG tutorial should be mandatory when entering Cyrodiil, and not optional like it is today.

    It's room for solo players in Cyrodiil, but Cyrodiil is not Assassin's Creed. It's a strategic military game, which makes it different from all the CoD games out there.
  • Angus
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    There's casual solo players?

    And strategic zerglings?

    There's a lot more to cyrodiil and open-world-style pvp than your narrow play style. But your point stands - solo players shouldn't complain about being zerged down by ten "strategic" zombies pressing their AP button, and zerglings - I mean strategic GvG players - shouldn't complain about getting ganked, or the lag said strategic zergs induce.

    (Edited for them ambiguous pronouns)
    Edited by Angus on February 8, 2017 1:45PM
    Angus of Noquar franchise.
    And some others.
  • ChaosWotan
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    There is room for several ways of gaming in Cyrodiil, but it has always been mainly a siege game where it is necessary to cooperate in order to take keeps and resources.

    Imo, if you want to complain, whine primarily about lack of new content and new gameplay mechanics in Cyrodiil.
  • SaRuZ
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    You can actually play Cyrodiil without conveniently lagging out as your battering ram busts through the fort doors, causing you to lose all fhe AP you were 30 seconds away from being awarded every.single.time lately? Lucky.

    I hate the action being forced. Zerg, zerg, zerg. Run nine years to a destination, lag, kill some, lag, die, respawn and repeat. This is why I dislike PvP in this game, amazing concept, awful execution. I will wait for 4v4v4 Battlegrounds, it looks like a lot less lag and much more skill based and team based strategy as opposed to, whoever has 35 instead of 25 in their zerg will win.
  • Angus
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    Nobody's forcing you to Zerg or do the "obvious" thing, just make or find a half decent open world build and set out on your own.

    Take and camp a resource or three, town, hang out in a contested region, whatever. Tag along with the random couple people you run into on the way, take down a group 3x your size or get wiped, etc.

    There's a wealth of gameplay available if you look for it, IMHO more rewarding than spawn - zerg - die - repeat
    Angus of Noquar franchise.
    And some others.
  • t3hdubzy
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    Another useless post about zerging and staying on crown. You can play pvp as a group nd have advancex tactics. Stay on crown is not the only strategy. In fact when i crown a group i send 3 or 4 nightblades to choke points to cut off reinforcements.

    More often then not i play solo because the crowns ive played with are immature and power hungry and yell. Couple that with massive fps drop when theres more than 20 ppl on the screen nd the annyoying 5th of my screen that becomes unusable.

    Playing solo doesnt mean i dont defend keeps, lay siege or solo flag keeps to distract the enemy.


    Stop trying to make people play the game your way.
  • Uviryth
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    GvG is not a thing in Elder Scrolls Online. Its called RvR.
  • ChaosWotan
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    RvR is also called GvG, according to Wikipedia for example.

    Stacking at crown is just short for following the orders of the leader, who may send out scouts to keeps and small groups to fake a siege in order to distract an enemy. All good TS guilds do that, which is so obvious that I didn't mention it in my original post.

    Have several times mentioned that there is room for many types of gameplay in Cyrodiil, but it's MAINLY a strategic military game, and will therefore have some limits on variety, like football doesn't have all the diversity of a freestyle skateboarder.

    If you don't like strategy games, play CoD games instead. Or be a good and useful solo player, like Warbow for example, in Cyrodiil.
  • Browiseth
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    oh my lord this is certainly the most pretentious thread i've seen in a while

    just let people play the game dude my gosh
    Edited by Browiseth on February 8, 2017 2:49PM
    skingrad when zoscharacters:
    • EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
    • EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
    • EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
    PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe
  • gp1680
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    t3hdubzy wrote: »
    Another useless post about zerging and staying on crown. You can play pvp as a group nd have advancex tactics. Stay on crown is not the only strategy. In fact when i crown a group i send 3 or 4 nightblades to choke points to cut off reinforcements.

    More often then not i play solo because the crowns ive played with are immature and power hungry and yell. Couple that with massive fps drop when theres more than 20 ppl on the screen nd the annyoying 5th of my screen that becomes unusable.

    Playing solo doesnt mean i dont defend keeps, lay siege or solo flag keeps to distract the enemy.


    Stop trying to make people play the game your way.

    ^ This...I play a lot in Haderus. The majority of the time I run solo but I'm always assisting my alliance with defending/sieging keeps. My goal is to kill and be in the action, wherever that may be. Most organized groups I run in become disorganized and inefficient as lag, disconnects, and noob players dismantle the effectiveness of the group. I'm there to be a part in the action, not go horseback riding or questing around the countryside. When I'm invited to be a part of a group by a crown that knows what they're doing, I'm happy to join and assist. I feel running solo though maximizes my time there. Everyone has their own play style, so let them be.
  • NewBlacksmurf
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    Yeah.....however if you listen to you or the next guy/gal, people are trying to do a lot of different things

    Prob be best if the campaigns were a lot more instance focused and objective focused as in a similar queue and play like wow and then reset.

    For siege, scroll runs and keeps
    -PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
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  • Valencer
    Valencer
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    Alliance stacks running from keep to keep around the emp ring = strategy. You heard it here first, folks.
  • Orchish
    Orchish
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    I'll stick to running around solo thanks.
  • Browiseth
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    Valencer wrote: »
    Alliance stacks running from keep to keep around the emp ring = strategy. You heard it here first, folks.

    as we all know, games are real life and fun is secondary to what is the closest thing to "winning" in Cyrodiil
    skingrad when zoscharacters:
    • EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
    • EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
    • EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
    PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe
  • Thelon
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    most articulate defense of being a zergbad 2017
  • ChaosWotan
    ChaosWotan
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    Thelon, a zerg is not the same as an organised train.

    @Browiseth

    It's not pretentious to ask people to follow the rules of chess, so why is it pretentious to ask most gamers in Cyrodiil to follow the main gameplay design, which is to cooperate in order to take keeps?

    If more chaotic gamestyles had worked in order to win the campaign, then it would have been much better than now, but EP went down the drain when our best organised TS groups stopped playing, because our best leaders got tired of gamers not following orders.

    There are many things to complain about in Cyrodiil, like the proctard sets, but the main problem has always been players not following the main game design of Cyrodiil.

    And here I am not criticizing those who actually are good solo players, those who contribute to winning the campaign.

  • Keep_Door
    Keep_Door
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    Sold play!!! Gank lyfe!!!

    I didnt read your post. Playing in a huge geoup is boring though. After awhile its just doing the same thing over and over again.

    Yay gank lyfe IM TINY RICK!!!!! Ya!!!
  • kevlarto_ESO
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    Cyrodiil is a big place and can support many types of play styles. I run in a small group and try to support the effort of the faction, other than being an Elder Scrolls game, the large scale pvp is something that interested me, to me a siege on a keep and riding to a keep with other faction members can feel epic, sometimes you run across the enemy for an epic open field battle, pvp can happen everywhere, it is really is a shame this game is not played by a lot of people like it was intended to be played, but hey that's the way it goes.

    I am not looking forward to the small scale pvp that's not what I came to ESO to play, there are tons of other games with queued up mini games to play and I have played them for years, to me this pvp was a nice break.

    Maybe the 4x4x4 pvp will get those people out of cyrodiil and leave us that enjoy the big battles, it might also kill pvp in cyrodiil and will pretty much make me find a new game, guess we will cross that bridge when we get there.
  • Browiseth
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    ChaosWotan wrote: »
    Thelon, a zerg is not the same as an organised train.

    @Browiseth

    It's not pretentious to ask people to follow the rules of chess, so why is it pretentious to ask most gamers in Cyrodiil to follow the main gameplay design, which is to cooperate in order to take keeps?

    If more chaotic gamestyles had worked in order to win the campaign, then it would have been much better than now, but EP went down the drain when our best organised TS groups stopped playing, because our best leaders got tired of gamers not following orders.

    There are many things to complain about in Cyrodiil, like the proctard sets, but the main problem has always been players not following the main game design of Cyrodiil.

    And here I am not criticizing those who actually are good solo players, those who contribute to winning the campaign.

    You're assuming there are rules in ESO pvp. The fact that people have the option to play solo means there are no rules telling them to, so yes, it's very pretentious of you to make claims how everyone should play the game.

    also, the fact you just made the chess comparison is also very pretentious

    god i love that word
    Edited by Browiseth on February 8, 2017 4:48PM
    skingrad when zoscharacters:
    • EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
    • EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
    • EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
    PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe
  • NightbladeMechanics
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    Correction: Cyrodiil is an open world sandbox. We are under no obligation to play in any given way, and no play style is inherently better or worse than another.

    There are only 3 rules in Cyrodiil:
    1) friendly fire is on
    2) you can't res yourself
    3) AP is awarded on kills

    Therefore it's favorable to have allies around you, but NOT necessary or even expected.

    Players are intended to play as they want, with keeps as mere trinkets dangling as options to feud over. Nothing more.
    Kena
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  • dsalter
    dsalter
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    the main issue is theres a huge map and only a hand full of areas are sought after, we need MORE objectives littered around the map that generate small but steady ticks of AP while defended but also give a map wide buff to the factions keeps+NPC guards.

    flags flip way to damn fast, should be a cap on the capture speed, the "towns small scale" is pathetic, they can be solo'd and captured by a SINGLE person, thats hardly small scale, even the resources put up a tiny bit of a fight tho even those are to damn easy.
    yes i know it's a PLAYER vs Player but even that shouldn't be reason enough for the NPC's to be a total cakewalk, hell the NPC guards could be exactly the thing to be able to help people defend against the whole "night capping" many complain about.

    overall things just bounce back and forward to much, this is what gives people the CoD mentality since just run in, kill stuff, win keep, move on. we need things to make keep captures slower and give motivation for players to defend both keeps and "bonus" objectives once more get added to spread the players across the map.
    PLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread

    EU - [Arch Mage Dave] Altmer Sorcerer
    Fight back at the crates and boxes, together we can change things.

  • Riga_Mortis
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    I always did wonder if alot of the people wishing for smallscale pvp actually knew what they getting into with Cyrodiil

    Options are always great, but isnt it like a CoD player buying BF and then wanting the 6v6 instead of the 32v32.

    Guess im one of the lucky ones that enjoy Cyrodiil for what it is and also looking forward to BG, because ill have the option and choice to enjoy both, large and small scale pvp, and not moan about either.
    Edited by Riga_Mortis on February 8, 2017 5:10PM
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  • Angus
    Angus
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    ...
    There are only 3 rules in Cyrodiil:
    1) friendly fire is on
    ...

    If true we'd see a lot less (live) zergs!
    Angus of Noquar franchise.
    And some others.
  • ChaosWotan
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    @Browiseth,

    I rather be seen as "pretentious" or even "arrogant" than interpret the main game design of Cyrodiil the way you do :)

    The "no rule"-fighting attitude that many solo players have just shows that mixing strategic gaming and CoD playstyles was not the best idea in Cyrodiil, so far at least.
  • Browiseth
    Browiseth
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    ChaosWotan wrote: »
    @Browiseth,

    I rather be seen as "pretentious" or even "arrogant" than interpret the main game design of Cyrodiil the way you do :)

    The "no rule"-fighting attitude that many solo players have just shows that mixing strategic gaming and CoD playstyles was not the best idea in Cyrodiil, so far at least.

    you call it a CoD playstyle; what the heck does that even mean? eso isn't an arena shooter lmao
    skingrad when zoscharacters:
    • EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
    • EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
    • EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
    • EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
    • EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
    PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe
  • Angus
    Angus
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    ChaosWotan wrote: »
    The "no rule"-fighting attitude that many solo players have just shows that mixing strategic gaming and CoD playstyles was not the best idea in Cyrodiil, so far at least.

    Seems like a great idea, actually; that's why a lot of us still play ESO. There's plenty of variety through plenty of playstyles.

    Once you get bored with one "minigame", you can explore and theorycraft gear, group compositions, and even pretentious chess-like strategies for those other playstyles.

    Or you can go on the forums, confuse and turn away new players, and contribute to the overall toxicity of PvP politics - up to you. That's the beauty of it.
    Angus of Noquar franchise.
    And some others.
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