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Let's clear the air on why people are angry
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Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »@sevomd69
Can you point to where in terms of service it says that please?
Also, you can't change the terms of a contract part way through the contract unless agreed to by both parties. They can change them after that contract, aka in between renewals, but it is highly likely they have to provide notice in such a case because the renewal is automatic and you don't get to see the changed terms. The question is really whether they have or will give sufficient notice of the change before you renew your sub that would include morrowind release.
Check zenimax.com/legal_terms periodically for new information and terms that govern Your purchase, use and receipt of ZeniMax Services. ZeniMax may modify these Terms of Service at its sole discretion at any time, by posting the revised version at zenimax.com/legal_terms or upon other notice to You. Unless otherwise noted, revisions shall be effective immediately and You will need to agree to the revised Terms of Service before You continue using any Services. By continuing to use the Services or our websites, You agree to any revised Terms of Service. If You do not agree to the revised Terms of Service and/or revised Supplemental Terms, You must discontinue further use of any of the Services, contact Customer Services at support.bethsoft.com or from North America dial 1-844-ZENIMAX (1-844-936-4629) or from outside the U.S., +800-6044-6044 or +1-678-460-4893 (International rates may apply, please contact your carrier for details) and cancel all of Your Account(s), memberships or subscription(s).
Ya they need a better legal team imo. In the US i dont think that is legal. They would be required to give you notice of some sort that either a) points you in the direction of the website and says "hey terms changed" in a fashion that you are reasonably calculated to get that message and or b) give some other sort of reasonable notice as they stated. Especially when your talking about changing the terms of a contract mid-contract (assuming we are talking mid-contract) where there is cash not just hey you agree not to cheat or say these words in game (or something along those lines).
According to a person I am talking with in another thread (cant back this up in anyway, but guy seems legit) merely pointing someone to terms on a page is not good enough. there must be a clear indication that they were read.
I think the legality of the ToS has been reviewed ad nauseam by their, I'm sure very well paid legal team... It is a pretty standard ToS for all games...
It is a VERY standard TOS for online games. I've never known one to be much different at all.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]1 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »I see a lot of strawman arguments being made. Nobody seems to understand why some people are angry.
People don't care about the price of the DLC. $40 is not a lot of money.
People are angry because ZOS has changed their revenue model AGAIN, leaving subscribers out to dry. The most loyal fans of the game feel betrayed because they felt they were paying for something, at a rate of $180 a year, that they will not receive now.
Had ZOS been clear from the start on what constitutes a DLC and what constitutes an expansion (two interchangeable terms), this whole mess could have been avoided. People who subbed for access to all future content, might not have subbed if they knew expansions would not be included in that rate.
These are players who have contributed many times the value of the DLC through their subscription, yet they are not getting any recognition for that now.
The worst part is that these players cannot even use the crowns they have accumulated to buy this latest expansion. These are real dollars that were paid to ZOS.
This is why some people are angry.
You still gain access to previous content with a sub without having to buy it, and once something else comes out as a major update I bet morrowind will move to the sub content based category as does content for almost any MMO atm.Edited by Cpt_Teemo on February 2, 2017 11:24PM0 -
Leogon✭✭✭✭✭
✭The other day, a bunch of people thought B2P was F2P and now this? Really?
DLC = Small amount of new content
Expansion = Large amount of new content
2 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »@sevomd69
Can you point to where in terms of service it says that please?
Also, you can't change the terms of a contract part way through the contract unless agreed to by both parties. They can change them after that contract, aka in between renewals, but it is highly likely they have to provide notice in such a case because the renewal is automatic and you don't get to see the changed terms. The question is really whether they have or will give sufficient notice of the change before you renew your sub that would include morrowind release.
Check zenimax.com/legal_terms periodically for new information and terms that govern Your purchase, use and receipt of ZeniMax Services. ZeniMax may modify these Terms of Service at its sole discretion at any time, by posting the revised version at zenimax.com/legal_terms or upon other notice to You. Unless otherwise noted, revisions shall be effective immediately and You will need to agree to the revised Terms of Service before You continue using any Services. By continuing to use the Services or our websites, You agree to any revised Terms of Service. If You do not agree to the revised Terms of Service and/or revised Supplemental Terms, You must discontinue further use of any of the Services, contact Customer Services at support.bethsoft.com or from North America dial 1-844-ZENIMAX (1-844-936-4629) or from outside the U.S., +800-6044-6044 or +1-678-460-4893 (International rates may apply, please contact your carrier for details) and cancel all of Your Account(s), memberships or subscription(s).
Ya they need a better legal team imo. In the US i dont think that is legal. They would be required to give you notice of some sort that either a) points you in the direction of the website and says "hey terms changed" in a fashion that you are reasonably calculated to get that message and or b) give some other sort of reasonable notice as they stated. Especially when your talking about changing the terms of a contract mid-contract (assuming we are talking mid-contract) where there is cash not just hey you agree not to cheat or say these words in game (or something along those lines).
According to a person I am talking with in another thread (cant back this up in anyway, but guy seems legit) merely pointing someone to terms on a page is not good enough. there must be a clear indication that they were read.
I think the legality of the ToS has been reviewed ad nauseam by their, I'm sure very well paid legal team... It is a pretty standard ToS for all games...
You would be surprised. litigation happens everyday because of oversight. I learn bout it every day. Just because they are well paid does not mean they forget things or mess up. Plenty of malpractice suits everyday for that very reason. Even large firms.
additionally, I think those ToS are fine from every other aspect of the game. Also One could argue, that subs have a seperate contract with seperate terms. additionally, by keeping the terms the same for so long and that being the basis of renewal occuerd course of dealings it is expected to stay the same unless the other party is notified of that change.0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭it really just comes down to this question "did the subscriber that was harmed get proper notice of the change in terms before the renewal period in which the update was released."
if the answer is yes, then zos is good. If the answer is no, they would likely have to give subs the update as part of their sub for lack of notice.0 -
sevomd69✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »@sevomd69
Can you point to where in terms of service it says that please?
Also, you can't change the terms of a contract part way through the contract unless agreed to by both parties. They can change them after that contract, aka in between renewals, but it is highly likely they have to provide notice in such a case because the renewal is automatic and you don't get to see the changed terms. The question is really whether they have or will give sufficient notice of the change before you renew your sub that would include morrowind release.
Check zenimax.com/legal_terms periodically for new information and terms that govern Your purchase, use and receipt of ZeniMax Services. ZeniMax may modify these Terms of Service at its sole discretion at any time, by posting the revised version at zenimax.com/legal_terms or upon other notice to You. Unless otherwise noted, revisions shall be effective immediately and You will need to agree to the revised Terms of Service before You continue using any Services. By continuing to use the Services or our websites, You agree to any revised Terms of Service. If You do not agree to the revised Terms of Service and/or revised Supplemental Terms, You must discontinue further use of any of the Services, contact Customer Services at support.bethsoft.com or from North America dial 1-844-ZENIMAX (1-844-936-4629) or from outside the U.S., +800-6044-6044 or +1-678-460-4893 (International rates may apply, please contact your carrier for details) and cancel all of Your Account(s), memberships or subscription(s).
Ya they need a better legal team imo. In the US i dont think that is legal. They would be required to give you notice of some sort that either a) points you in the direction of the website and says "hey terms changed" in a fashion that you are reasonably calculated to get that message and or b) give some other sort of reasonable notice as they stated. Especially when your talking about changing the terms of a contract mid-contract (assuming we are talking mid-contract) where there is cash not just hey you agree not to cheat or say these words in game (or something along those lines).
According to a person I am talking with in another thread (cant back this up in anyway, but guy seems legit) merely pointing someone to terms on a page is not good enough. there must be a clear indication that they were read.
I think the legality of the ToS has been reviewed ad nauseam by their, I'm sure very well paid legal team... It is a pretty standard ToS for all games...
You would be surprised. litigation happens everyday because of oversight. I learn bout it every day. Just because they are well paid does not mean they forget things or mess up. Plenty of malpractice suits everyday for that very reason. Even large firms.
additionally, I think those ToS are fine from every other aspect of the game. Also One could argue, that subs have a seperate contract with seperate terms. additionally, by keeping the terms the same for so long and that being the basis of renewal occuerd course of dealings it is expected to stay the same unless the other party is notified of that change.
I'm not surprised at all... the US is rife with frivolous lawsuits...What exactly do you know about malpractice suits? I've actually experienced them personally... the main requisite for a medical malpractice suit is that the physician deviated from the STANDARD of CARE... so not really an appropriate comparison...0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »@sevomd69
Can you point to where in terms of service it says that please?
Also, you can't change the terms of a contract part way through the contract unless agreed to by both parties. They can change them after that contract, aka in between renewals, but it is highly likely they have to provide notice in such a case because the renewal is automatic and you don't get to see the changed terms. The question is really whether they have or will give sufficient notice of the change before you renew your sub that would include morrowind release.
Check zenimax.com/legal_terms periodically for new information and terms that govern Your purchase, use and receipt of ZeniMax Services. ZeniMax may modify these Terms of Service at its sole discretion at any time, by posting the revised version at zenimax.com/legal_terms or upon other notice to You. Unless otherwise noted, revisions shall be effective immediately and You will need to agree to the revised Terms of Service before You continue using any Services. By continuing to use the Services or our websites, You agree to any revised Terms of Service. If You do not agree to the revised Terms of Service and/or revised Supplemental Terms, You must discontinue further use of any of the Services, contact Customer Services at support.bethsoft.com or from North America dial 1-844-ZENIMAX (1-844-936-4629) or from outside the U.S., +800-6044-6044 or +1-678-460-4893 (International rates may apply, please contact your carrier for details) and cancel all of Your Account(s), memberships or subscription(s).
Ya they need a better legal team imo. In the US i dont think that is legal. They would be required to give you notice of some sort that either a) points you in the direction of the website and says "hey terms changed" in a fashion that you are reasonably calculated to get that message and or b) give some other sort of reasonable notice as they stated. Especially when your talking about changing the terms of a contract mid-contract (assuming we are talking mid-contract) where there is cash not just hey you agree not to cheat or say these words in game (or something along those lines).
According to a person I am talking with in another thread (cant back this up in anyway, but guy seems legit) merely pointing someone to terms on a page is not good enough. there must be a clear indication that they were read.
I think the legality of the ToS has been reviewed ad nauseam by their, I'm sure very well paid legal team... It is a pretty standard ToS for all games...
You would be surprised. litigation happens everyday because of oversight. I learn bout it every day. Just because they are well paid does not mean they forget things or mess up. Plenty of malpractice suits everyday for that very reason. Even large firms.
additionally, I think those ToS are fine from every other aspect of the game. Also One could argue, that subs have a seperate contract with seperate terms. additionally, by keeping the terms the same for so long and that being the basis of renewal occuerd course of dealings it is expected to stay the same unless the other party is notified of that change.
I'm not surprised at all... the US is rife with frivolous lawsuits...What exactly do you know about malpractice suits? I've actually experienced them personally... the main requisite for a medical malpractice suit is that the physician deviated from the STANDARD of CARE... so not really an appropriate comparison...
Disclaimer: just to be safe haha since i have a bar exam coming up and dont want to do something stupid now. I am not a lawyer. I am not advising anyone.
really the same thing for lawyers. malpractice claims are just negligent claims. Have to show negligence. standard of care is that of a reasonable attorney.0 -
sevomd69✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »@sevomd69
Can you point to where in terms of service it says that please?
Also, you can't change the terms of a contract part way through the contract unless agreed to by both parties. They can change them after that contract, aka in between renewals, but it is highly likely they have to provide notice in such a case because the renewal is automatic and you don't get to see the changed terms. The question is really whether they have or will give sufficient notice of the change before you renew your sub that would include morrowind release.
Check zenimax.com/legal_terms periodically for new information and terms that govern Your purchase, use and receipt of ZeniMax Services. ZeniMax may modify these Terms of Service at its sole discretion at any time, by posting the revised version at zenimax.com/legal_terms or upon other notice to You. Unless otherwise noted, revisions shall be effective immediately and You will need to agree to the revised Terms of Service before You continue using any Services. By continuing to use the Services or our websites, You agree to any revised Terms of Service. If You do not agree to the revised Terms of Service and/or revised Supplemental Terms, You must discontinue further use of any of the Services, contact Customer Services at support.bethsoft.com or from North America dial 1-844-ZENIMAX (1-844-936-4629) or from outside the U.S., +800-6044-6044 or +1-678-460-4893 (International rates may apply, please contact your carrier for details) and cancel all of Your Account(s), memberships or subscription(s).
Ya they need a better legal team imo. In the US i dont think that is legal. They would be required to give you notice of some sort that either a) points you in the direction of the website and says "hey terms changed" in a fashion that you are reasonably calculated to get that message and or b) give some other sort of reasonable notice as they stated. Especially when your talking about changing the terms of a contract mid-contract (assuming we are talking mid-contract) where there is cash not just hey you agree not to cheat or say these words in game (or something along those lines).
According to a person I am talking with in another thread (cant back this up in anyway, but guy seems legit) merely pointing someone to terms on a page is not good enough. there must be a clear indication that they were read.
I think the legality of the ToS has been reviewed ad nauseam by their, I'm sure very well paid legal team... It is a pretty standard ToS for all games...
You would be surprised. litigation happens everyday because of oversight. I learn bout it every day. Just because they are well paid does not mean they forget things or mess up. Plenty of malpractice suits everyday for that very reason. Even large firms.
additionally, I think those ToS are fine from every other aspect of the game. Also One could argue, that subs have a seperate contract with seperate terms. additionally, by keeping the terms the same for so long and that being the basis of renewal occuerd course of dealings it is expected to stay the same unless the other party is notified of that change.
I'm not surprised at all... the US is rife with frivolous lawsuits...What exactly do you know about malpractice suits? I've actually experienced them personally... the main requisite for a medical malpractice suit is that the physician deviated from the STANDARD of CARE... so not really an appropriate comparison...
Disclaimer: just to be safe haha since i have a bar exam coming up and dont want to do something stupid now. I am not a lawyer. I am not advising anyone.
really the same thing for lawyers. malpractice claims are just negligent claims. Have to show negligence. standard of care is that of a reasonable attorney.
Well good luck on the bar...
0 -
Duragon_Darko✭✭✭Sorry, but as an MMO player that's been around through Ultima Online, EQ, Neverwinter Nights, FFXI, Balders Gate, WoW and many, many more.... I understand the distinction between "DLC" and "expansion".
I don't understand why some feel disrespected, cheated or tricked. They didn't change the subscription model, seeing as when they drop DLC's for Morrowwind, we'll get that all for free as well. It's just the sheer size of an expansion that deems the additional price as its literally not a DLC to add on, but a stand alone game in itself that ties in with the original ESO.
I applaud the direction ZOS has taken with this in particular, and wouldn't mind something of this caliber every 2 or 3 years to keep the game fresh and competitive against the opposing MMO's.
My 2 cents. But what do I know, I've only been playing MMO's since 93.... when DLC meant you couldn't play for that week, lol..... I have to admit, the devs do listen to reason, if not to the forums. Thank you for "nameplates", a welcome addition to immersion, as well as the text chat box for PS4, which only comes on the screen when I need it too, and helps this gameplay SO MUCH MORE then without it. THANK YOU for the additions. Very much appreciated.3 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »@sevomd69
Can you point to where in terms of service it says that please?
Also, you can't change the terms of a contract part way through the contract unless agreed to by both parties. They can change them after that contract, aka in between renewals, but it is highly likely they have to provide notice in such a case because the renewal is automatic and you don't get to see the changed terms. The question is really whether they have or will give sufficient notice of the change before you renew your sub that would include morrowind release.
Check zenimax.com/legal_terms periodically for new information and terms that govern Your purchase, use and receipt of ZeniMax Services. ZeniMax may modify these Terms of Service at its sole discretion at any time, by posting the revised version at zenimax.com/legal_terms or upon other notice to You. Unless otherwise noted, revisions shall be effective immediately and You will need to agree to the revised Terms of Service before You continue using any Services. By continuing to use the Services or our websites, You agree to any revised Terms of Service. If You do not agree to the revised Terms of Service and/or revised Supplemental Terms, You must discontinue further use of any of the Services, contact Customer Services at support.bethsoft.com or from North America dial 1-844-ZENIMAX (1-844-936-4629) or from outside the U.S., +800-6044-6044 or +1-678-460-4893 (International rates may apply, please contact your carrier for details) and cancel all of Your Account(s), memberships or subscription(s).
Ya they need a better legal team imo. In the US i dont think that is legal. They would be required to give you notice of some sort that either a) points you in the direction of the website and says "hey terms changed" in a fashion that you are reasonably calculated to get that message and or b) give some other sort of reasonable notice as they stated. Especially when your talking about changing the terms of a contract mid-contract (assuming we are talking mid-contract) where there is cash not just hey you agree not to cheat or say these words in game (or something along those lines).
According to a person I am talking with in another thread (cant back this up in anyway, but guy seems legit) merely pointing someone to terms on a page is not good enough. there must be a clear indication that they were read.
I think the legality of the ToS has been reviewed ad nauseam by their, I'm sure very well paid legal team... It is a pretty standard ToS for all games...
You would be surprised. litigation happens everyday because of oversight. I learn bout it every day. Just because they are well paid does not mean they forget things or mess up. Plenty of malpractice suits everyday for that very reason. Even large firms.
additionally, I think those ToS are fine from every other aspect of the game. Also One could argue, that subs have a seperate contract with seperate terms. additionally, by keeping the terms the same for so long and that being the basis of renewal occuerd course of dealings it is expected to stay the same unless the other party is notified of that change.
I'm not surprised at all... the US is rife with frivolous lawsuits...What exactly do you know about malpractice suits? I've actually experienced them personally... the main requisite for a medical malpractice suit is that the physician deviated from the STANDARD of CARE... so not really an appropriate comparison...
Disclaimer: just to be safe haha since i have a bar exam coming up and dont want to do something stupid now. I am not a lawyer. I am not advising anyone.
really the same thing for lawyers. malpractice claims are just negligent claims. Have to show negligence. standard of care is that of a reasonable attorney.
Well good luck on the bar...
thanks!0 -
DragonBound✭✭✭✭✭AlexTech0x wrote: »To be honest? they said 30 hours of gameplay. That looks like a DLC, not a full expansion.
Ok but your forgetting the new trial, likely new gear, a new class, and an arena mode with 3 moves and 3 maps at start, you may not like it but this is what the expansion comes with, that costs a bit of money to make. Lets not forget the nice pre order bonus for digital stuff as well.0 -
DragonBound✭✭✭✭✭Duragon_Darko wrote: »Sorry, but as an MMO player that's been around through Ultima Online, EQ, Neverwinter Nights, FFXI, Balders Gate, WoW and many, many more.... I understand the distinction between "DLC" and "expansion".
I don't understand why some feel disrespected, cheated or tricked. They didn't change the subscription model, seeing as when they drop DLC's for Morrowwind, we'll get that all for free as well. It's just the sheer size of an expansion that deems the additional price as its literally not a DLC to add on, but a stand alone game in itself that ties in with the original ESO.
I applaud the direction ZOS has taken with this in particular, and wouldn't mind something of this caliber every 2 or 3 years to keep the game fresh and competitive against the opposing MMO's.
My 2 cents. But what do I know, I've only been playing MMO's since 93.... when DLC meant you couldn't play for that week, lol.
Eq and wow came out with expansions all the time while you did not get any of it for subbing and everyone had to sub to play.0 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭CosmicSoul wrote: »AlexTech0x wrote: »To be honest? they said 30 hours of gameplay. That looks like a DLC, not a full expansion.
Ok but your forgetting the new trial, likely new gear, a new class, and an arena mode with 3 moves and 3 maps at start, you may not like it but this is what the expansion comes with, that costs a bit of money to make. Lets not forget the nice pre order bonus for digital stuff as well.
30 hours seems like a good hunk of time for an expansion, a dlc is more like 1-5 hours imo.0 -
esotoon✭✭✭✭✭
✭CosmicSoul wrote: »Ok but your forgetting the new trial, likely new gear, a new class, and an arena mode with 3 moves and 3 maps at start, you may not like it but this is what the expansion comes with, that costs a bit of money to make. Lets not forget the nice pre order bonus for digital stuff as well.
Now compare it to previous DLCs.
20 hours game play + Gear + Bosses + Dungeons = Orsinium
10 hours game play + Trial = Thieves Guild
New PVP type and maps = IC
So it's the equivalent of 3 DLCs. The only thing we haven't had before is a new class.
Now look at what our Subs have got us access to:
No DLC Q4 2016
No DLC Q1 2017
No DLC Q2 2017
So content wise, when it is released in Q2 2017, it is equivalent what we would have expected to have gotten by that time based on previous DLCs.
Only we didn't get those DLCs. And we are now having to pay extra for the content.
(ETA: This is obviously based on the information we've had so far - it could turn out to be more than this, but as a customer, that's all we have to base our decisions on)
Edited by esotoon on February 3, 2017 12:28AM1 -
AtAfternoon✭✭✭The other day, a bunch of people thought B2P was F2P and now this? Really?
DLC = Small amount of new content
Expansion = Large amount of new content
Large compared to what? Is a baby elephant small or large? The line is completely arbitrary and changes not only from company to company but from game to game.
There's a standard set now, meaning that anything as big or bigger than Morrowind can be expected to be Chapters while everything as small or smaller than Orsinium can be expected to be DLCs.1 -
S1ipperyJim✭✭✭✭✭The other day, a bunch of people thought B2P was F2P and now this? Really?
DLC = Small amount of new content
Expansion = Large amount of new content
Except most media referred to Imperial City as ESO's first expansion, which was included in ESO+.
Except Morrowind is not an expansion in ZOS' view they carefully refer to it as a 'chapter' which can mean anything they want it to mean2 -
sevomd69✭✭✭✭✭
✭
The important distinction is that just because the media referred to it as a expansion doesn't mean ZOS considered it an expansion...reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »The other day, a bunch of people thought B2P was F2P and now this? Really?
DLC = Small amount of new content
Expansion = Large amount of new content
Except most media referred to Imperial City as ESO's first expansion, which was included in ESO+.
Except Morrowind is not an expansion in ZOS' view they carefully refer to it as a 'chapter' which can mean anything they want it to mean
0 -
Chadak✭✭✭✭✭It becomes very evident that Zenimax needs to put some definition down on what constitutes DLC and what doesn't, because that seems to be at the heart of this whole fiasco.
I can very well relate to those feeling angry or otherwise dealt a dirty hand over it, if only for the simple fact in following: There is no actual definition for DLC that I'm aware of. Its content that you download. Whether its part of what they promise to include access to in the sub fee or not seems utterly dependent on their whims, because there is no actual definition to it.
Why is Morrowind an expansion and not DLC? Because they decided to call it that.
There is, insofar as I'm aware, no other reason.
That's shady and annoying no matter the intention or absence thereof.1 -
sevomd69✭✭✭✭✭
✭It becomes very evident that Zenimax needs to put some definition down on what constitutes DLC and what doesn't, because that seems to be at the heart of this whole fiasco.
I can very well relate to those feeling angry or otherwise dealt a dirty hand over it, if only for the simple fact in following: There is no actual definition for DLC that I'm aware of. Its content that you download. Whether its part of what they promise to include access to in the sub fee or not seems utterly dependent on their whims, because there is no actual definition to it.
Why is Morrowind an expansion and not DLC? Because they decided to call it that.
There is, insofar as I'm aware, no other reason.
That's shady and annoying no matter the intention or absence thereof.
They've already done that... all the DLC's are in the crown store and the expansion or chapter is not...1 -
S1ipperyJim✭✭✭✭✭CosmicSoul wrote: »AlexTech0x wrote: »To be honest? they said 30 hours of gameplay. That looks like a DLC, not a full expansion.
Ok but your forgetting the new trial, likely new gear, a new class, and an arena mode with 3 moves and 3 maps at start, you may not like it but this is what the expansion comes with, that costs a bit of money to make. Lets not forget the nice pre order bonus for digital stuff as well.
An ACTUAL expansion contains far more than Morrowind.
WOW's first expansion:
7 new zones - a whole new continen
10 new dungeons
2 new races
1 new game mode PVP arenas
1 new battleground
1 new crafting line eg jewellery
Added crafting levels, and other usual stuff like new gear
Morrowind:
1 new zone
1 new trial
1 new class
1 new game mode PVP arenas
will no doubt have usual new gear etc
Both cost almost exactly the same
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sevomd69✭✭✭✭✭
✭reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »CosmicSoul wrote: »AlexTech0x wrote: »To be honest? they said 30 hours of gameplay. That looks like a DLC, not a full expansion.
Ok but your forgetting the new trial, likely new gear, a new class, and an arena mode with 3 moves and 3 maps at start, you may not like it but this is what the expansion comes with, that costs a bit of money to make. Lets not forget the nice pre order bonus for digital stuff as well.
An ACTUAL expansion contains far more than Morrowind.
WOW's first expansion:
7 new zones - a whole new continen
10 new dungeons
2 new races
1 new game mode PVP arenas
1 new battleground
1 new crafting line eg jewellery
Added crafting levels, and other usual stuff like new gear
Morrowind:
1 new zone
1 new trial
1 new class
1 new game mode PVP arenas
will no doubt have usual new gear etc
Both cost almost exactly the same
No... an expansion in WoW contains all the aforementioned... ZOS deems that their expansion (chapter) includes whatever is in Morrowind...0 -
EldritchPenguin✭✭✭✭✭I don't care so much about them packaging this separately from the Crown Store. Adding the Warden class as DLC only, however, just doesn't sit well with me.Lilelle Adlis - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Vaynothah Sailenar - Dark Elf Templar
Sherivah Telvanni - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Nephiah Telvanni - Dark Elf Nightblade1 -
Chadak✭✭✭✭✭It becomes very evident that Zenimax needs to put some definition down on what constitutes DLC and what doesn't, because that seems to be at the heart of this whole fiasco.
I can very well relate to those feeling angry or otherwise dealt a dirty hand over it, if only for the simple fact in following: There is no actual definition for DLC that I'm aware of. Its content that you download. Whether its part of what they promise to include access to in the sub fee or not seems utterly dependent on their whims, because there is no actual definition to it.
Why is Morrowind an expansion and not DLC? Because they decided to call it that.
There is, insofar as I'm aware, no other reason.
That's shady and annoying no matter the intention or absence thereof.
They've already done that... all the DLC's are in the crown store and the expansion or chapter is not...
Gosh. That's so obvious as a difference between downloadable content and content that one downloads.
Its almost like there's no difference what so ever except whatever they arbitrarily make up on days that end in 'Y'.
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Frondale✭✭✭After asking and reading some answers, now I understand why the outrage.
I understand, but I do not feel that way. I do not use the terms interchangeably, I actually was part of a discussion on the differences I perceive between DLC and EP a while ago in these forums. And I certainly never expected an EP to be included with the subscription, perhaps because almost all MMOs I played had paid Expansion Packs during the time I was playing them, sub or no sub. But I understand that having your expectations crushed and feeling betrayed is pretty bad (it is how the Crown Crates make me feel, after all).
My subscription never lapsed since release and I will continue to subscribe, though, since access to DLC is not the only reason I sub for and I didn't have the same expectations you had. I am absolutely ecstatic after yesterday's reveals and I am happily waiting for today's article.
Hi Abeille
What reveals or articles are you mentioning ?
I have missed those sources. Is something happening concerning our ESO PLus?
Cheers
Fron0 -
S1ipperyJim✭✭✭✭✭No... an expansion in WoW contains all the aforementioned... ZOS deems that their expansion (chapter) includes whatever is in Morrowind...
ZOS don't actually call it an expansion. They call it a chapter. It's all the other people defending ZOS on this forum who are calling it an expansion as justification for why it's not part of the sub. As shown above it can't really be called an expansion due to how little it actually offers compared to genuine expansions in comparable MMORPGs. In reality it is another DLC, just one heavily marketed and yet another rebranded version of ESO (we've had repackaging and rebranding before as ESOTU, ESO1T, Now MORROWIND). Only a DLC ZOS exclude from ESO+ by calling it something else.2 -
sevomd69✭✭✭✭✭
✭It becomes very evident that Zenimax needs to put some definition down on what constitutes DLC and what doesn't, because that seems to be at the heart of this whole fiasco.
I can very well relate to those feeling angry or otherwise dealt a dirty hand over it, if only for the simple fact in following: There is no actual definition for DLC that I'm aware of. Its content that you download. Whether its part of what they promise to include access to in the sub fee or not seems utterly dependent on their whims, because there is no actual definition to it.
Why is Morrowind an expansion and not DLC? Because they decided to call it that.
There is, insofar as I'm aware, no other reason.
That's shady and annoying no matter the intention or absence thereof.
They've already done that... all the DLC's are in the crown store and the expansion or chapter is not...
Gosh. That's so obvious as a difference between downloadable content and content that one downloads.
Its almost like there's no difference what so ever except whatever they arbitrarily make up on days that end in 'Y'.
But it looks like the media also chose to make the distinction arbitrarily as well...0 -
Chadak✭✭✭✭✭I suspect that this DLC is being sold as an expansion because of all the Morrowind nostalgia.
Its not a poor business decision, though they kinda walked themselves facefirst into this niggling little 'but you promised access to DLC for subscribing' thing.
Quick! Lets call it something else! Not-DLC that we're...not putting on the crown store!!!
Because that clearly makes it very different. Fundamental difference right there. As different as apples and nuclear physics.
Obviously.1 -
sevomd69✭✭✭✭✭
✭reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »No... an expansion in WoW contains all the aforementioned... ZOS deems that their expansion (chapter) includes whatever is in Morrowind...
ZOS don't actually call it an expansion. They call it a chapter. It's all the other people defending ZOS on this forum who are calling it an expansion as justification for why it's not part of the sub. As shown above it can't really be called an expansion due to how little it actually offers compared to genuine expansions in comparable MMORPGs. In reality it is another DLC, just one heavily marketed and yet another rebranded version of ESO (we've had repackaging and rebranding before as ESOTU, ESO1T, Now MORROWIND). Only a DLC ZOS exclude from ESO+ by calling it something else.
But I think it has enough content for it to be an expansion... so in "reality" to you is that it is a DLC , but the reality to me is that its an expansion...0 -
DragonBound✭✭✭✭✭reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »No... an expansion in WoW contains all the aforementioned... ZOS deems that their expansion (chapter) includes whatever is in Morrowind...
ZOS don't actually call it an expansion. They call it a chapter. It's all the other people defending ZOS on this forum who are calling it an expansion as justification for why it's not part of the sub. As shown above it can't really be called an expansion due to how little it actually offers compared to genuine expansions in comparable MMORPGs. In reality it is another DLC, just one heavily marketed and yet another rebranded version of ESO (we've had repackaging and rebranding before as ESOTU, ESO1T, Now MORROWIND). Only a DLC ZOS exclude from ESO+ by calling it something else.
Most dlcs do not offer a new class and an arena mode good god it is an expansion!0
