willlienellson wrote: »willlienellson wrote: »Semantics is literally the study of the meaning of words. .Wreuntzylla wrote: »Semantics is meaning in words, sentences, paragraphs.... text generally. It includes contextual meaning.
You'll forgive me, but I stopped reading there.
willlienellson wrote: »You told me you were going to come and sh!t all over my thread and I should have believed you.
In the same post where you talk about how you were educated to separate the argument from the person arguing you tell me I have reading comprehension problems. lol Meanwhile you tell me your previous comments weren't directed at me specifically even though you were quoting me directly.
You can troll Zos. You can troll the community here. But you can't troll me.
I won't be replying again. Period.
Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »
More accurately, I should have said moral compulsion. but..
C'mon, join the fun!
We are deconstructing the entire English language in this thread!
Do the Aedra love the pious because it is pious, or is pious only pious because it is loved by the Aedra?
Wreuntzylla wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »
More accurately, I should have said moral compulsion. but..
C'mon, join the fun!
We are deconstructing the entire English language in this thread!
Do the Aedra love the pious because it is pious, or is pious only pious because it is loved by the Aedra?
If you take out the "more" I'm with you .
Here we are talking about the difference between your action or inaction based on either an external threat (e.g., law) or your own values (e.g., charity). Moral compulsion really doesn't exist because you aren't compelled to change your values, only your conduct. You may believe in an eye for an eye, but don't follow it because it will land you in jail. On the other hand, because moral obligation comes from your own internal code, your action/inaction is in fact determined by moral obligation.
However, perhaps you have some footing. If someone were to say you have a moral obligation based on their morality rather than yours, which you hear from time to time, that moral obligation does not necessarily exist in you. However, it's based on a corrupt definition of moral obligation and is an abberation.
At least until so many people use it that a dictionary picks it up, like twerking. yeah, that's right, twerking has made it into some reputable dictionaries. Now we are stuck with it at least until its considered archaic. years and years and....
Cherryblossom wrote: »...I don't agree with is that Morrowind is anything more than a DLC, from what I've seen and heard I don't see anything that would really set it apart from say Orsinium...
Sure it is, and are well within your rights as a human being to disagree, but most people would say a cardboard box filled with gold has more value than the same sized cardboard box empty. But sure, it's all subjective.kevlarto_ESO wrote: »"Value" is a subjective term,
I think pretty much anyone that ever played an MMO before was on the same page.kevlarto_ESO wrote: »Because I knew at some point if they ever did anything resembling an expansion it would not be covered under eso+
Well, you'll be pleased to know that they've already said the rest of the normal DLCs currently planned will be independent of any chapters, sold for crowns, and available in the crown store.kevlarto_ESO wrote: »I would not be surprised if the dlc's that are connected to the game are also not covered under the eso+,
1) I don't see a problem with this expansion not being included in ESO + as they found a loophole by not labeling it downloadable content, congrats, its business
2) I do see a problem in that the have stopped caring about ESO + members, and instead started marginalizing them.
This marginalization can be seen in three ways:
a) Offering the entire game and all available DLCS for a significantly reduced price on occasions - A friend of mine was able to get all DLCs and the game recently for a much cheaper price than 6 months of being a subscriber......
b) Gradually inflating the costs of items in the store to lower the value of the crowns gained from subbing
c) Not fixing queuing for random normal and veteran dungeons, as they will always assign you to a DLC dungeon. There are dozens of other dungeons to do why am I constantly shafted? It's not even random anymore as I know I only have a choice of 1 of 5 dungeons, while non-ESO+ members have a bigger choice.
Quoting the "sale" price on crowns right?DaveMoeDee wrote: »Morrowind looks great, but OP has no idea of the value. For $48, I can get 11000 crowns. That makes $40 worth close to 9000 crowns, or Orsinium + IC + TG + Shadow of the Hist. If Morrowind is better than the 4 of those together, I will agree about it being more value than past DLC.
willlienellson wrote: »The main story is quoted as 30 hours.
willlienellson wrote: »I know a lot of people are complaining that this is an "expansion" instead of a "DLC" and will be sold for real world currency instead of accessible via membership and/or bought with crowns.
But I think it's instructive to consider this in contrast to the other offerings by this company over the last few months that people (myself included) have complained about.
People are always trying to judge the "ethics" of companies based on things like their social responsibility or their environmental impact, but way back in the day we judged a company's ethics by if they delivered VALUE to consumers. It's still one of the cornerstones of business ethics (for people actually in business) and is the other side of the coin of Marketing.
FIRST,
Make no mistake about it, the reason most items are sold with "crowns" is because it allows you to divorce the real cost of the item from the decision to purchase it. These imaginary currencies exist specifically to keep you from analyzing the value of the purchase.
Furthermore, once people are hooked into the stream of converting real world currency for imaginary currency, it's much easier to convince you to buy junk that has no value. If you literally pulled out a credit card to pay $35 for a mount, many of you would be forced to consider than transaction in the context of what other things you could buy for $35 in the real world. Going to the movies, getting an oil change, a new sweater, etc.
But when your real life money has already been converted to crowns, the decision simply becomes "which one of these few limited crown offerings should I buy"?
SECOND,
Due to that, it's very easy to make absolute worthless junk and sell it. Things like a child's refrigerator drawing of a reindeer stretched over a horse skeleton for 4000 crowns.
It's like the old Seinfield quote. "It's a show about nothing. So why would they watch it? .......Because it's on TV"
They are trying to sell you nothing. Why would you buy it? Because it's in the crown store.
This has led to a feedback loop of negativity and LESS VALUE. The worse the items are in the crown store, the more people save their crowns, the more Zos overcharges for even more unrefined junk in an attempt to get you to use up the crowns.
BUT THIS IS A BETTER DIRECTION.
Zos has my congratulations on both offering real value with this expansion (as far as I can tell so far) and offering it for a legitimate price in the realm of normal commerce.
Anyone complaining about the cost of this expansion and the demand of real world currency for it has been duped by the fake currency system of crowns. This expansion offers the best value offering by Zos in years, if not since the launch of the game.
This expansion comes with a costume, mount, armor converter, pets, and more. Prior to this, the most recent mount cost over half as much as this expansion by itself...and it SUCKED. lol
THIS IS VALUE. GOOD JOB ZENIMAX.
I hope they have tremendous sales and make massive revenue from this expansion so they return to offering real content, real value, for real money.
(too bad Homestead doesn't feel more that way)
willlienellson wrote: »Quoting the "sale" price on crowns right?DaveMoeDee wrote: »Morrowind looks great, but OP has no idea of the value. For $48, I can get 11000 crowns. That makes $40 worth close to 9000 crowns, or Orsinium + IC + TG + Shadow of the Hist. If Morrowind is better than the 4 of those together, I will agree about it being more value than past DLC.
Well, wait a year and Morrowind expansion will also go on sale.
Sheesh. lol
You missed my point.DaveMoeDee wrote: »snip
willlienellson wrote: »
The main story is quoted as 30 hours. .
This means a new player will experience the Chapter as a 30-hour game, but with a hundreds-of-hours-of-content massive Online RPG to experience afterwards.
This June, the next Chapter in The Elder Scrolls Online will begin. Return to the iconic island of Vvardenfell for over 30 hours of adventure in a brand new location
willlienellson wrote: »
willlienellson wrote: »You missed my point.DaveMoeDee wrote: »snip
You are saying we shouldn't equate the price of Morrowind in dollars to the dollar value of DLC priced in crowns, because crowns sometimes go on sale.
Morrowind will also sometimes go on sale. Count on it.
brandonv516 wrote: »ESO itself is downloadable and it is full of content. That doesn't mean it is downloadable content (DLC).
Move along here lol.
willlienellson wrote: »I know a lot of people are complaining that this is an "expansion" instead of a "DLC" and will be sold for real world currency instead of accessible via membership and/or bought with crowns.
But I think it's instructive to consider this in contrast to the other offerings by this company over the last few months that people (myself included) have complained about.
People are always trying to judge the "ethics" of companies based on things like their social responsibility or their environmental impact, but way back in the day we judged a company's ethics by if they delivered VALUE to consumers. It's still one of the cornerstones of business ethics (for people actually in business) and is the other side of the coin of Marketing.
FIRST,
Make no mistake about it, the reason most items are sold with "crowns" is because it allows you to divorce the real cost of the item from the decision to purchase it. These imaginary currencies exist specifically to keep you from analyzing the value of the purchase.
Furthermore, once people are hooked into the stream of converting real world currency for imaginary currency, it's much easier to convince you to buy junk that has no value. If you literally pulled out a credit card to pay $35 for a mount, many of you would be forced to consider than transaction in the context of what other things you could buy for $35 in the real world. Going to the movies, getting an oil change, a new sweater, etc.
But when your real life money has already been converted to crowns, the decision simply becomes "which one of these few limited crown offerings should I buy"?
SECOND,
Due to that, it's very easy to make absolute worthless junk and sell it. Things like a child's refrigerator drawing of a reindeer stretched over a horse skeleton for 4000 crowns.
It's like the old Seinfield quote. "It's a show about nothing. So why would they watch it? .......Because it's on TV"
They are trying to sell you nothing. Why would you buy it? Because it's in the crown store.
This has led to a feedback loop of negativity and LESS VALUE. The worse the items are in the crown store, the more people save their crowns, the more Zos overcharges for even more unrefined junk in an attempt to get you to use up the crowns.
BUT THIS IS A BETTER DIRECTION.
Zos has my congratulations on both offering real value with this expansion (as far as I can tell so far) and offering it for a legitimate price in the realm of normal commerce.
Anyone complaining about the cost of this expansion and the demand of real world currency for it has been duped by the fake currency system of crowns. This expansion offers the best value offering by Zos in years, if not since the launch of the game.
This expansion comes with a costume, mount, armor converter, pets, and more. Prior to this, the most recent mount cost over half as much as this expansion by itself...and it SUCKED. lol
THIS IS VALUE. GOOD JOB ZENIMAX.
I hope they have tremendous sales and make massive revenue from this expansion so they return to offering real content, real value, for real money.
(too bad Homestead doesn't feel more that way)
You may well be right..
Then again you could be totally wrong too.
Do you have a crystal ball or something because until we get to see what we actually have, we don't know
It could be this is the best thing Zos has released
But equally it t could be that Zos know how popular Morrowind is, and are taking advantage of it.
Based in their past record, I wouldn't take what they say as gospel at all
Also, in the basic upgrade package, I get a pet dog (which I like) , Warden costume which I have zero interest in, treasure Maps (lately I've been destroying ones I find, maybe these will have better loot, who knows), crown crates and xp scrolls which are of no interest to me.
I don't get a mount and I don't get armour converter.
experience the Chapter as a 30-hour game
Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »willlienellson wrote: »"Join Sprint's Unlimited Data plan and never be charged overages again"
Which means, SO LONG AS THEY OFFER THAT PACKAGE.
Nobody in their right minds would suggest Sprint is now obligated (legally or morally) to offer an unlimited package forever.
Oh the joys of arguing with you
My original claim:
Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Full access to DLC was promised to subscribers in perpetuity.
Your challenge:
willlienellson wrote: »Can I get a source on this "promise in perpetuity"?
... I'm anxious to read these wedding vow like promises Zos made to you.
My response:
What Pete Hines ACTUALLY said on ESO LIVE in relation to subscribers:So the idea there as it relates to DLC is I dont EVER have to worry about what DLC is coming out when, I just get to play ALL OF IT.
I never said they were legally obligated to keep their word, I just implied they were scumbags for going back on it. There is no such thing as moral obligation. You have every right to break your word as I have every right to call you scum for doing so. But that is irrelevant. Your challenge was simple. Provide evidence of a promise. Evidence provided. You can eat one of these now.