PTS Feedback Thread for Dragonknight Balance Improvements

jpeter88 · January 2017

Neighbor wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_EricWrobel

The most important things that we really need to see before the patch goes live:
Inferno AoE again - This helps out with both the mDK PvE DPS problem (refer to this post) and solves the PvP issue. In PvP it will allow for DKs to apply pressure to enemies but in a way that cannot be so easily countered (like Purge will all of our DoTs). You can just use the old animation for the skill so development should not be too much of a challenge here.

Revert the reflect nerf or give a reason to use Reflective Scales - There is simply no reason to put this skill on your bar anymore. It is too expensive for what it does, and it is super situational now that even force pulse cannot be reflected. Way too many ranged abilities in the game simply bypass this skill. Another idea is to add another effect onto this skill while keeping the mediocre reflecting capabilities. Y'all can get creative here, literally anything is better than it's current form (Major expedition, resource management, etc).

Lower magika cost on skills - this is the biggest hindrance to mDKs in PvE and PvP right now. mDKs have the worse resource management, and the fact that they cannot sustain their rotation during boss fights makes them extremely undesirable to have in group. In PvP, we are limited to heavy sets for open world PvP and this does not bode well with DK's extremely high ability costs.

Reduce Standard of Might ultimate cost - the effect is getting nerfed this patch, so the cost should go down too. Lower ult cost will help with the resource management problem because of Battle Roar. It will also help with the DPS problem, so it just makes a lot of sense to lower the cost of this ultimate.

These solutions will kill several birds with one stone. I am taking in mind the limited about of time that you guys have to work with and these should be quick enough to implement into the game. This is the least amount of work required to fix the issues DKs face, yet yield the best result. I guarantee that if these changes are made, DK's will be happy again.

i agree mith most of what you said as they are the same ideas i have as well. the one thing i dont agree with is the dps. i think mdk dps is fine especially when it comes to trials they pull some of the top numbers. The problem is they have such a hard and demanding rotation to acheive this.......stacking DoT upon DoT upon DoT while trying to keep your main DPS spammable whips going, so there a lot of people that cant maintain this and thus lose big DPS.

Sustain is just non existent making ele drain a must have, id like to see the cost lowered across the board by a little bit and it would be nice to have a good magicka steal or something to at least help us make it to our ulti regen.

Dracane · January 2017

Dragonblood was overbuffed in my opinion.
DKs will be even harder to defeat than templars with this outer space buff. Remember, that the 33% health addition is still missing at rank IV. I think it's ridiculous, I never understood all the trouble with dragonblood.

We'll see how it goes. But I think, DKs could be completely unkillable now. Imagine if force shock was still reflectable.... how would you ever hope to stand a chance.
Sorcerer never deserved a burst heal (Twilight Matriarch) Sorcerer was tanky enough with conjured hard, being unable to restore health fast was their weak spot. Neither does DK deserve or even need a burst heal, that's completely unbalanced.
Waiting for Nightblade burst heal.....

Kilandros · January 2017

Dracane wrote: »

Dragonblood was overbuffed in my opinion.
DKs will be even harder to defeat than templars with this outer space buff. Remember, that the 33% health addition is still missing at rank IV. I think it's ridiculous, I never understood all the trouble with dragonblood.

We'll see how it goes. But I think, DKs could be completely unkillable now. Imagine if force shock was still reflectable.... how would you ever hope to stand a chance.
Sorcerer never deserved a burst heal (Twilight Matriarch) Sorcerer was tanky enough with conjured hard, being unable to restore health fast was their weak spot. Neither does DK deserve or even need a burst heal, that's completely unbalanced.
Waiting for Nightblade burst heal.....

I don't understand why you post in feedback threads for classes you don't play.

Stamden · January 2017

Dracane wrote: »

Dragonblood was overbuffed in my opinion.
DKs will be even harder to defeat than templars with this outer space buff. Remember, that the 33% health addition is still missing at rank IV. I think it's ridiculous, I never understood all the trouble with dragonblood.

We'll see how it goes. But I think, DKs could be completely unkillable now. Imagine if force shock was still reflectable.... how would you ever hope to stand a chance.
Sorcerer never deserved a burst heal (Twilight Matriarch) Sorcerer was tanky enough with conjured hard, being unable to restore health fast was their weak spot. Neither does DK deserve or even need a burst heal, that's completely unbalanced.
Waiting for Nightblade burst heal.....

Have you even looked at any of the numbers? Coag is like a 3.5k-4k heal in Cyro for builds that are optimized for it. It is slightly better than the one on live. Jeeze people are overexaggerating the hell out of this buff.

Dracane · January 2017

Kilandros wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Dragonblood was overbuffed in my opinion.
DKs will be even harder to defeat than templars with this outer space buff. Remember, that the 33% health addition is still missing at rank IV. I think it's ridiculous, I never understood all the trouble with dragonblood.

We'll see how it goes. But I think, DKs could be completely unkillable now. Imagine if force shock was still reflectable.... how would you ever hope to stand a chance.
Sorcerer never deserved a burst heal (Twilight Matriarch) Sorcerer was tanky enough with conjured hard, being unable to restore health fast was their weak spot. Neither does DK deserve or even need a burst heal, that's completely unbalanced.
Waiting for Nightblade burst heal.....

I don't understand why you post in feedback threads for classes you don't play.

You must be an oracle

Or at least you try to be. I have all 4 classes maxed out and play them (only magicka though)
But I have my favorite class, which must be a crime as it seems. I know what I want

Even if, I fought enough DKs to have my opinion.
I'm happy, that this change frees DKs from the burden to carry a restoration staff. That's the only positive thing about it.

MaxwellC · January 2017

@Dracane
After checking your videos on your YT I don't see a Mag DK but to a better discussion. People obviously will lash out at you for making a completely broken statement; Dragon's blood has never been good post 1.6.5 patch so for you to say that the current improvement is OP just seems very well to put it 'nicely' misinformed.

Do know that dueling does not provide accurate feedback nor should that be your basis for balance claims. It would be like me saying well "on my Stam DK mag sorcs just keep spamming shields well I think that after using one shield if you spam it within 3 seconds it should cost double magicka". That wouldn't be smart would it?

Mag DK doesn't survive open world unless dragged along with a good group, and Stam DK survives open world but lacks skills to do significant damage which resorts in heavy attack animation cancelling for kills. Mag DK lacks mobility while the DK class as a whole lacks sustain more so magicka variant but stamina is hurting too.

Dracane · January 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Dracane
After checking your videos on your YT I don't see a Mag DK but to a better discussion. People obviously will lash out at you for making a completely broken statement; Dragon's blood has never been good post 1.6.5 patch so for you to say that the current improvement is OP just seems very well to put it 'nicely' misinformed.

Do know that dueling does not provide accurate feedback nor should that be your basis for balance claims. It would be like me saying well "on my Stam DK mag sorcs just keep spamming shields well I think that after using one shield if you spam it within 3 seconds it should cost double magicka". That wouldn't be smart would it?

Mag DK doesn't survive open world unless dragged along with a good group, and Stam DK survives open world but lacks skills to do significant damage which resorts in heavy attack animation cancelling for kills. Mag DK lacks mobility while the DK class as a whole lacks sustain more so magicka variant but stamina is hurting too.

Dragonblood was alright for its intended purpose, for health tanks. Which DK is pretty much about. (old original concept, but it's still there)
These changes were supposed to make it more appealing for low health DKs who build around magicka. However, magicka DKs have access to burning embers and healing ward and that's already more than enough. Honestly, I prefer dragonblood spam over healing ward spam. But I think it could be a bit too good, combines with DK tankiness. We'll see

ZoM_Head · January 2017

I would like to inform you guys with my testing on the PTS.

Inside Cyrodiil i managed to reach a limit of 8,996 crit heals, it is at 20%. Tried at 10% health and still saw 8,996 crit heals, so the "up to 33% missing health" bug is in play and i recon we could see 11K+ crit heals.

Mind you this was tested in 5 light, 1 medium and 1 heavy with a dectruction staff on the main bar (sharpened legendary) and with Igneous Shields applied as well.

Max health is at 24K in Cyrodiil, max magicka is 38K gear is all impen except 1 divines (Valkyn head) and on EPIC quality. I can safely say, we can now run in light arour without the need for a resto staff for that burst heal (healing ward). Still squishy due to the amount of physical dmg those stam builds are pushing, but we can heal.

PvE wise, it is amazingly good, i could not really see the max health, since i run at 17K max health and at 10K helath one heals to 100% in 1 CDB crit heals or non crit w/igneous.

sebban · January 2017

jpeter88 wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_EricWrobel

The most important things that we really need to see before the patch goes live:
Inferno AoE again - This helps out with both the mDK PvE DPS problem (refer to this post) and solves the PvP issue. In PvP it will allow for DKs to apply pressure to enemies but in a way that cannot be so easily countered (like Purge will all of our DoTs). You can just use the old animation for the skill so development should not be too much of a challenge here.

Revert the reflect nerf or give a reason to use Reflective Scales - There is simply no reason to put this skill on your bar anymore. It is too expensive for what it does, and it is super situational now that even force pulse cannot be reflected. Way too many ranged abilities in the game simply bypass this skill. Another idea is to add another effect onto this skill while keeping the mediocre reflecting capabilities. Y'all can get creative here, literally anything is better than it's current form (Major expedition, resource management, etc).

Lower magika cost on skills - this is the biggest hindrance to mDKs in PvE and PvP right now. mDKs have the worse resource management, and the fact that they cannot sustain their rotation during boss fights makes them extremely undesirable to have in group. In PvP, we are limited to heavy sets for open world PvP and this does not bode well with DK's extremely high ability costs.

Reduce Standard of Might ultimate cost - the effect is getting nerfed this patch, so the cost should go down too. Lower ult cost will help with the resource management problem because of Battle Roar. It will also help with the DPS problem, so it just makes a lot of sense to lower the cost of this ultimate.

These solutions will kill several birds with one stone. I am taking in mind the limited about of time that you guys have to work with and these should be quick enough to implement into the game. This is the least amount of work required to fix the issues DKs face, yet yield the best result. I guarantee that if these changes are made, DK's will be happy again.

i agree mith most of what you said as they are the same ideas i have as well. the one thing i dont agree with is the dps. i think mdk dps is fine especially when it comes to trials they pull some of the top numbers. The problem is they have such a hard and demanding rotation to acheive this.......stacking DoT upon DoT upon DoT while trying to keep your main DPS spammable whips going, so there a lot of people that cant maintain this and thus lose big DPS.

Sustain is just non existent making ele drain a must have, id like to see the cost lowered across the board by a little bit and it would be nice to have a good magicka steal or something to at least help us make it to our ulti regen.

Yea, we could use a consolidation of our DOT and buff timers. Make shorter dots last 10s (embers, engulfing) and the longer dots last 20 seconds (FoO, Eruption). Would make our rotation much easier.

CubanRay · January 2017

Kilandros wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Dragonblood was overbuffed in my opinion.
DKs will be even harder to defeat than templars with this outer space buff. Remember, that the 33% health addition is still missing at rank IV. I think it's ridiculous, I never understood all the trouble with dragonblood.

We'll see how it goes. But I think, DKs could be completely unkillable now. Imagine if force shock was still reflectable.... how would you ever hope to stand a chance.
Sorcerer never deserved a burst heal (Twilight Matriarch) Sorcerer was tanky enough with conjured hard, being unable to restore health fast was their weak spot. Neither does DK deserve or even need a burst heal, that's completely unbalanced.
Waiting for Nightblade burst heal.....

I don't understand why you post in feedback threads for classes you don't play.

Hahhahaha fail!!!

MaxwellC · January 2017

@Dracane
Again and no you are incorrect. As a player who's played Mag DK on PC since well craglorn being released dragon's blood was not a 'health tank' ability. Back then the ability its self wasn't affected by Battle spirit and it was intended for the 'hold your ground gameplay'. Unfortunately the skill began being affected by battle spirit while abilities had changed like cinder storm, inhale, Inferno (Flames of Oblivion AoE), I could go on but etc.

DK passives still have no been updated for the nerfs that affected gameplay for example battle roar, battle roar is still outdated as its passive was there only for being used as our sustain. Unfortunately dynamic ultimate regeneration was removed which means our sustain was capped. Our Magicka abilities were blanket increased I believe 3 times, one being the ability cost re-balance.

I would like to reiterate the misconception; Dragon's blood was never a or intended to be a 'health tank' ability. It was to be exactly what ZOS referred to it recently a "Use it when you really need it" ability. A lot of abilities had changed the way we could stand our ground like cinder-storm before I would drop that on myself then go into igneous shield + dragon's blood and be near full.

Vynn · January 2017

Dracane wrote: »

Dragonblood was overbuffed in my opinion.
DKs will be even harder to defeat than templars with this outer space buff. Remember, that the 33% health addition is still missing at rank IV. I think it's ridiculous, I never understood all the trouble with dragonblood.

We'll see how it goes. But I think, DKs could be completely unkillable now. Imagine if force shock was still reflectable.... how would you ever hope to stand a chance.
Sorcerer never deserved a burst heal (Twilight Matriarch) Sorcerer was tanky enough with conjured hard, being unable to restore health fast was their weak spot. Neither does DK deserve or even need a burst heal, that's completely unbalanced.
Waiting for Nightblade burst heal.....

Its not a 33% health addition to the base heal. It is up to a 33% increase to the base heal based on missing health.
Coagulating Blood (Dragon Blood morph):
This morph now heals for a flat value (scaling with Spell Damage and Max Magicka), with that heal being increased by up to 33% based on your missing health.
If the heal is increased it is likely affected by battle spirit. Due to it being bugged we cant verify that as of yet. So it may be more like a 16.5% increase in Cyrodiil. But even if it is 33% that isnt ridiculous or OP at all.

psychotic13 · January 2017

Anyone on PTS care to share any videos of coag in action? Really want to get my MagDK back but am curious about this first

kojou · January 2017

sebban wrote: »

jpeter88 wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_EricWrobel

The most important things that we really need to see before the patch goes live:
Inferno AoE again - This helps out with both the mDK PvE DPS problem (refer to this post) and solves the PvP issue. In PvP it will allow for DKs to apply pressure to enemies but in a way that cannot be so easily countered (like Purge will all of our DoTs). You can just use the old animation for the skill so development should not be too much of a challenge here.

Revert the reflect nerf or give a reason to use Reflective Scales - There is simply no reason to put this skill on your bar anymore. It is too expensive for what it does, and it is super situational now that even force pulse cannot be reflected. Way too many ranged abilities in the game simply bypass this skill. Another idea is to add another effect onto this skill while keeping the mediocre reflecting capabilities. Y'all can get creative here, literally anything is better than it's current form (Major expedition, resource management, etc).

Lower magika cost on skills - this is the biggest hindrance to mDKs in PvE and PvP right now. mDKs have the worse resource management, and the fact that they cannot sustain their rotation during boss fights makes them extremely undesirable to have in group. In PvP, we are limited to heavy sets for open world PvP and this does not bode well with DK's extremely high ability costs.

Reduce Standard of Might ultimate cost - the effect is getting nerfed this patch, so the cost should go down too. Lower ult cost will help with the resource management problem because of Battle Roar. It will also help with the DPS problem, so it just makes a lot of sense to lower the cost of this ultimate.

These solutions will kill several birds with one stone. I am taking in mind the limited about of time that you guys have to work with and these should be quick enough to implement into the game. This is the least amount of work required to fix the issues DKs face, yet yield the best result. I guarantee that if these changes are made, DK's will be happy again.

i agree mith most of what you said as they are the same ideas i have as well. the one thing i dont agree with is the dps. i think mdk dps is fine especially when it comes to trials they pull some of the top numbers. The problem is they have such a hard and demanding rotation to acheive this.......stacking DoT upon DoT upon DoT while trying to keep your main DPS spammable whips going, so there a lot of people that cant maintain this and thus lose big DPS.

Sustain is just non existent making ele drain a must have, id like to see the cost lowered across the board by a little bit and it would be nice to have a good magicka steal or something to at least help us make it to our ulti regen.

Yea, we could use a consolidation of our DOT and buff timers. Make shorter dots last 10s (embers, engulfing) and the longer dots last 20 seconds (FoO, Eruption). Would make our rotation much easier.

This with a little boost to sustain would make Magicka DK's a well rounded class. I would prefer a buff to Battle Roar as that is part of what make a DK a DK rather than adding regen or cost reduction.

I am all for standardization of DoT timings across all classes as I mentioned in another post... It seems like Sorcs will be in the best place in this regard on the next patch. All of their timings are around 8-10 seconds, and they can already sustain better than DK's so I have a feeling they will pretty much be DPS gods.

pieratsos · January 2017

Dracane wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Dracane
After checking your videos on your YT I don't see a Mag DK but to a better discussion. People obviously will lash out at you for making a completely broken statement; Dragon's blood has never been good post 1.6.5 patch so for you to say that the current improvement is OP just seems very well to put it 'nicely' misinformed.

Do know that dueling does not provide accurate feedback nor should that be your basis for balance claims. It would be like me saying well "on my Stam DK mag sorcs just keep spamming shields well I think that after using one shield if you spam it within 3 seconds it should cost double magicka". That wouldn't be smart would it?

Mag DK doesn't survive open world unless dragged along with a good group, and Stam DK survives open world but lacks skills to do significant damage which resorts in heavy attack animation cancelling for kills. Mag DK lacks mobility while the DK class as a whole lacks sustain more so magicka variant but stamina is hurting too.

Dragonblood was alright for its intended purpose, for health tanks. Which DK is pretty much about. (old original concept, but it's still there)
These changes were supposed to make it more appealing for low health DKs who build around magicka. However, magicka DKs have access to burning embers and healing ward and that's already more than enough. Honestly, I prefer dragonblood spam over healing ward spam. But I think it could be a bit too good, combines with DK tankiness. We'll see

So the class that was designed to hold its ground shouldnt have a reliable self heal unless they are playing extreme 40k+ hp useless tank builds. And in any other build they should have no mobility no dmg meh sustain and their only source of healing should be either a broken unreliable heal that even DKs dont want (burning embers) or even worse they should go outside of their class to get a heal even tho their class was designed to hold its ground.
Thats like saying sorcs and NB go outside of their class to get burst/mobility or templars go outside of their class to get healing and purge. But they dont.

Riggsy · January 2017

pieratsos wrote: »

So the class that was designed to hold its ground shouldnt have a reliable self heal unless they are playing extreme 40k+ hp useless tank builds. And in any other build they should have no mobility no dmg meh sustain and their only source of healing should be either a broken unreliable heal that even DKs dont want (burning embers) or even worse they should go outside of their class to get a heal even tho their class was designed to hold its ground.
Thats like saying sorcs and NB go outside of their class to get burst/mobility or templars go outside of their class to get healing and purge. But they dont.

Thats the problem, DKs no longer have a class identity (in PvP). The whole "stand your ground" uniqueness has been gutted many times over and now if you want to experience that play style WITH sustain/damage you'd be better off as a Temp or Sorc wearing heavy armor. I remember when wings was worth a slot, now its garbage. I've written before, as a pvp stam DK, I only slot like 25% of my bars with class abilities (usually 3 out of 12 total slots) because so many of the skills are sub-par or costly.

ExcaliburESO · January 2017

Dracane wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Dracane
After checking your videos on your YT I don't see a Mag DK but to a better discussion. People obviously will lash out at you for making a completely broken statement; Dragon's blood has never been good post 1.6.5 patch so for you to say that the current improvement is OP just seems very well to put it 'nicely' misinformed.

Do know that dueling does not provide accurate feedback nor should that be your basis for balance claims. It would be like me saying well "on my Stam DK mag sorcs just keep spamming shields well I think that after using one shield if you spam it within 3 seconds it should cost double magicka". That wouldn't be smart would it?

Mag DK doesn't survive open world unless dragged along with a good group, and Stam DK survives open world but lacks skills to do significant damage which resorts in heavy attack animation cancelling for kills. Mag DK lacks mobility while the DK class as a whole lacks sustain more so magicka variant but stamina is hurting too.

Dragonblood was alright for its intended purpose, for health tanks. Which DK is pretty much about. (old original concept, but it's still there)
These changes were supposed to make it more appealing for low health DKs who build around magicka. However, magicka DKs have access to burning embers and healing ward and that's already more than enough. Honestly, I prefer dragonblood spam over healing ward spam. But I think it could be a bit too good, combines with DK tankiness. We'll see

LOL, why u post this here its meant for ppl who test things and play this class and why should i use resto staff all the time if i have a heal that is suposed to heal me like it was in the past.
P.S. I can also say that many sorcs are nearly unkillable when they stay in mines and spam shields... OP overbuffed omg

Derra · January 2017

Neighbor wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Dragonblood was overbuffed in my opinion.
DKs will be even harder to defeat than templars with this outer space buff. Remember, that the 33% health addition is still missing at rank IV. I think it's ridiculous, I never understood all the trouble with dragonblood.

We'll see how it goes. But I think, DKs could be completely unkillable now. Imagine if force shock was still reflectable.... how would you ever hope to stand a chance.
Sorcerer never deserved a burst heal (Twilight Matriarch) Sorcerer was tanky enough with conjured hard, being unable to restore health fast was their weak spot. Neither does DK deserve or even need a burst heal, that's completely unbalanced.
Waiting for Nightblade burst heal.....

Have you even looked at any of the numbers? Coag is like a 3.5k-4k heal in Cyro for builds that are optimized for it. It is slightly better than the one on live. Jeeze people are overexaggerating the hell out of this buff.

I can critheal for 10 to 11k on my DK with rank1 coagulated blood on low health - in cyrodiil obviously.

kookster · January 2017

Riggsy wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

So the class that was designed to hold its ground shouldnt have a reliable self heal unless they are playing extreme 40k+ hp useless tank builds. And in any other build they should have no mobility no dmg meh sustain and their only source of healing should be either a broken unreliable heal that even DKs dont want (burning embers) or even worse they should go outside of their class to get a heal even tho their class was designed to hold its ground.
Thats like saying sorcs and NB go outside of their class to get burst/mobility or templars go outside of their class to get healing and purge. But they dont.

Thats the problem, DKs no longer have a class identity (in PvP). The whole "stand your ground" uniqueness has been gutted many times over and now if you want to experience that play style WITH sustain/damage you'd be better off as a Temp or Sorc wearing heavy armor. I remember when wings was worth a slot, now its garbage. I've written before, as a pvp stam DK, I only slot like 25% of my bars with class abilities (usually 3 out of 12 total slots) because so many of the skills are sub-par or costly.

I am the same, I have noxious breath, igneous shield, and volitile armor. Thats it. Nothing else is worth slotting as a stam DK. Except maybe Venomous Claw.

Kilandros · January 2017

Derra wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Dragonblood was overbuffed in my opinion.
DKs will be even harder to defeat than templars with this outer space buff. Remember, that the 33% health addition is still missing at rank IV. I think it's ridiculous, I never understood all the trouble with dragonblood.

We'll see how it goes. But I think, DKs could be completely unkillable now. Imagine if force shock was still reflectable.... how would you ever hope to stand a chance.
Sorcerer never deserved a burst heal (Twilight Matriarch) Sorcerer was tanky enough with conjured hard, being unable to restore health fast was their weak spot. Neither does DK deserve or even need a burst heal, that's completely unbalanced.
Waiting for Nightblade burst heal.....

Have you even looked at any of the numbers? Coag is like a 3.5k-4k heal in Cyro for builds that are optimized for it. It is slightly better than the one on live. Jeeze people are overexaggerating the hell out of this buff.

I can critheal for 10 to 11k on my DK with rank1 coagulated blood on low health - in cyrodiil obviously.

Not bad - stats?

RinaldoGandolphi · January 2017

I think Dragonblood will be fine.

As for being harder to kill then a Templar? Nah

DK don't have the resource sustain and Purging Abilities Templars have...Channel Focus + Minor Magicka Steaal +Constitution = endless magicka pretty much.

DK will be slightly better damage dealers though thanks to the Whip Buff and the Change to Ferious Leap it will be easier for DK to kill people.

As a Templar/Sorc(I have a DK for PVE) making Force Shock unreflectable was dumb. A Sorc fighting a DK now its his fight to lose not the DK fight to win. All the Sorc has to do is keep Harness up and wait for an opportunity to slip Frags in between Wings now that Curse can't be blocked. Folks that have trouble open world as a Sorc againt Magic DK really need to learn how to play

Look at this fight right here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pts-Rd29Rbw

Its the same now....a Sorc vs DKits the Sorcs fight to lose not the DK fight to win....at equal skill a Mag Sorc will kill aMag DK 9 out of 10 times....those saying otherwise just don't know how to Sorc...Mines is so OP against a DK who all their damage is melee, combined with a huge shield stack and DK only having DOTS a Sorc can't simply face tank with impunity until his opportunity opens up to Curse +Frag + Fury you between wings while you try adn wade though his Mines.

Force Shock should not be unreflectable, and Dragon Knight Wings needs fixed. DK deserve a decent chance to beat an equally skil mag sorc in a fight....

In that video even an Emp who is a pretty good player simply couldn't win....

MaxwellC · January 2017

@RinaldoGandolphi
Yup that's the thing the DK as a class needs a rework and there are suggestions through-out this post giving good changes that good bring it up to par but instead we just get a few good things (not great) while we also receive some nerfs. Next patch my stam DK is most likely going to be rocking shield breaker as I'm tired of how tedious its become with not only sorcs but even nightblades or any class that can effective escape combat while shield stacking.
Mag DK is hard to fight on a Stam DK but even then, they rarely shield stack because they need more slots to do damage while other classes... well not so much.

Dracane · January 2017

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

I think Dragonblood will be fine.

As for being harder to kill then a Templar? Nah

DK don't have the resource sustain and Purging Abilities Templars have...Channel Focus + Minor Magicka Steaal +Constitution = endless magicka pretty much.

DK will be slightly better damage dealers though thanks to the Whip Buff and the Change to Ferious Leap it will be easier for DK to kill people.

As a Templar/Sorc(I have a DK for PVE) making Force Shock unreflectable was dumb. A Sorc fighting a DK now its his fight to lose not the DK fight to win. All the Sorc has to do is keep Harness up and wait for an opportunity to slip Frags in between Wings now that Curse can't be blocked. Folks that have trouble open world as a Sorc againt Magic DK really need to learn how to play

Look at this fight right here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pts-Rd29Rbw

Its the same now....a Sorc vs DKits the Sorcs fight to lose not the DK fight to win....at equal skill a Mag Sorc will kill aMag DK 9 out of 10 times....those saying otherwise just don't know how to Sorc...Mines is so OP against a DK who all their damage is melee, combined with a huge shield stack and DK only having DOTS a Sorc can't simply face tank with impunity until his opportunity opens up to Curse +Frag + Fury you between wings while you try adn wade though his Mines.

Force Shock should not be unreflectable, and Dragon Knight Wings needs fixed. DK deserve a decent chance to beat an equally skil mag sorc in a fight....

In that video even an Emp who is a pretty good player simply couldn't win....

@RinaldoGandolphi

Then you haven't met DKs who don't play annoying turtle tanks, but DKs who play actual damage builds, probably even in light armor and who know how to burst (which they can) and then happy B day if you happen to be Vampire.

DKs have the upper hand, because they can pressure so much, that the Sorc is forced to go full defense. A DK can only loose when THEY do a mistake. Mines are completely overrated, also because melee attacks have an 8 meters range.
Now with the force shock change, this might change and make it more even between the 2, because Sorc had 0 offense against wings DKs.

Shieldstacking is broken, but DKs can stack just the same if they wish. Everyone can, but nobody relies on it like Sorcs do.
However, I think shieldstacking must go.

Stamden · January 2017

Dracane wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

I think Dragonblood will be fine.

As for being harder to kill then a Templar? Nah

DK don't have the resource sustain and Purging Abilities Templars have...Channel Focus + Minor Magicka Steaal +Constitution = endless magicka pretty much.

DK will be slightly better damage dealers though thanks to the Whip Buff and the Change to Ferious Leap it will be easier for DK to kill people.

As a Templar/Sorc(I have a DK for PVE) making Force Shock unreflectable was dumb. A Sorc fighting a DK now its his fight to lose not the DK fight to win. All the Sorc has to do is keep Harness up and wait for an opportunity to slip Frags in between Wings now that Curse can't be blocked. Folks that have trouble open world as a Sorc againt Magic DK really need to learn how to play

Look at this fight right here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pts-Rd29Rbw

Its the same now....a Sorc vs DKits the Sorcs fight to lose not the DK fight to win....at equal skill a Mag Sorc will kill aMag DK 9 out of 10 times....those saying otherwise just don't know how to Sorc...Mines is so OP against a DK who all their damage is melee, combined with a huge shield stack and DK only having DOTS a Sorc can't simply face tank with impunity until his opportunity opens up to Curse +Frag + Fury you between wings while you try adn wade though his Mines.

Force Shock should not be unreflectable, and Dragon Knight Wings needs fixed. DK deserve a decent chance to beat an equally skil mag sorc in a fight....

In that video even an Emp who is a pretty good player simply couldn't win....

@RinaldoGandolphi

Then you haven't met DKs who don't play annoying turtle tanks, but DKs who play actual damage builds, probably even in light armor and who know how to burst (which they can) and then happy B day if you happen to be Vampire.

DKs have the upper hand, because they can pressure so much, that the Sorc is forced to go full defense. A DK can only loose when THEY do a mistake. Mines are completely overrated, also because melee attacks have an 8 meters range.
Now with the force shock change, this might change and make it more even between the 2, because Sorc had 0 offense against wings DKs.

Shieldstacking is broken, but DKs can stack just the same if they wish. Everyone can, but nobody relies on it like Sorcs do.
However, I think shieldstacking must go.

Dude any good Sorc is going to dumpster a DK. 8 Meter range doesn't matter if the Sorc has a normal amount of chromosomes and knows how to kite around mines. We can't do anything about mines and now that wings are useless, we can't even hold our ground. A Sorc has to screw up really, really badly to somehow die to a DK.

MaxwellC · January 2017

@Dracane
You do realize that video shows a regular sorc vs a DK emp right? I mean that was painful and this was back when emp wasn't nerf'd lol. The Mag emp seemed to have ran out of resources but even still mag sorc just shield stacked all through-out it while hiding behind mines (Which is the meta today). Every sorc I've faced hides behind mines and shield stacks and since I'm a DK well stam I've got nothing but heavy attacks with animation cancels while my mag has DoTs that.... well do nothing lol.

The only 'burst' as you've stated Mag Dks have is in regards to using an ultimate like meteor while they fossilize you into a whip. If an ultimate is suppose to be your only burst then it's a sad day for you, I suggest you play a Mag DK open world and tell me how fast you re-log to your sorc. I've now even do not believe you own a Mag DK with these responses, I suggest you play the class whether Mag or Stam (don't rely on proc sets/heavy armor for stam).

Armitas · January 2017

Dracane wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

I think Dragonblood will be fine.

As for being harder to kill then a Templar? Nah

DK don't have the resource sustain and Purging Abilities Templars have...Channel Focus + Minor Magicka Steaal +Constitution = endless magicka pretty much.

DK will be slightly better damage dealers though thanks to the Whip Buff and the Change to Ferious Leap it will be easier for DK to kill people.

As a Templar/Sorc(I have a DK for PVE) making Force Shock unreflectable was dumb. A Sorc fighting a DK now its his fight to lose not the DK fight to win. All the Sorc has to do is keep Harness up and wait for an opportunity to slip Frags in between Wings now that Curse can't be blocked. Folks that have trouble open world as a Sorc againt Magic DK really need to learn how to play

Look at this fight right here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pts-Rd29Rbw

Its the same now....a Sorc vs DKits the Sorcs fight to lose not the DK fight to win....at equal skill a Mag Sorc will kill aMag DK 9 out of 10 times....those saying otherwise just don't know how to Sorc...Mines is so OP against a DK who all their damage is melee, combined with a huge shield stack and DK only having DOTS a Sorc can't simply face tank with impunity until his opportunity opens up to Curse +Frag + Fury you between wings while you try adn wade though his Mines.

Force Shock should not be unreflectable, and Dragon Knight Wings needs fixed. DK deserve a decent chance to beat an equally skil mag sorc in a fight....

In that video even an Emp who is a pretty good player simply couldn't win....

@RinaldoGandolphi

Then you haven't met DKs who don't play annoying turtle tanks, but DKs who play actual damage builds, probably even in light armor and who know how to burst (which they can) and then happy B day if you happen to be Vampire.

DKs have the upper hand, because they can pressure so much, that the Sorc is forced to go full defense. A DK can only loose when THEY do a mistake. Mines are completely overrated, also because melee attacks have an 8 meters range.
Now with the force shock change, this might change and make it more even between the 2, because Sorc had 0 offense against wings DKs.

Shieldstacking is broken, but DKs can stack just the same if they wish. Everyone can, but nobody relies on it like Sorcs do.
However, I think shieldstacking must go.

That was an emperor in the video.

Mines are only overrated if you are using them wrong. Stand behind your mine fortress not in it. If you stand behind it you have two mines between you and the target while remaining out of range, if you stand in it you're not doing anything.

DK's can't shield stack just the same as a sorc. We don't have hardened ward to stack with annulment, we have a health based shield, and healing ward. That is not the same, not to mention we are melee ranged with no mobility.

The person you are quoting plays both DK and Sorc and knows both sides of the fight.

CubanRay · January 2017

All I want is a skill price reduction and I will give it another chance.

Carbonised · January 2017

CubanRay wrote: »

All I want is a skill price reduction and I will give it another chance.

I don't want a skill cost decrease, I want Battle Roar to be buffed, Battle Roar to not be afected by Battle Spirit, and Banner lowered to 200 ult instead of 250. Now that they nerfed Banner, the cost should be decreased.

That alone would make my mDK sustain better, and also rely on our class feature of regaining ressouces from Battle Roar.

Oh, and I also want the shield from Ferocious Leap removed, and replaced with a flame DoT on affected targets. Would make slotting Ferocious Leap worth it, which it isn't now. It's just a poor man's meteor, really.

Dracane · January 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Dracane
You do realize that video shows a regular sorc vs a DK emp right? I mean that was painful and this was back when emp wasn't nerf'd lol. The Mag emp seemed to have ran out of resources but even still mag sorc just shield stacked all through-out it while hiding behind mines (Which is the meta today). Every sorc I've faced hides behind mines and shield stacks and since I'm a DK well stam I've got nothing but heavy attacks with animation cancels while my mag has DoTs that.... well do nothing lol.

The only 'burst' as you've stated Mag Dks have is in regards to using an ultimate like meteor while they fossilize you into a whip. If an ultimate is suppose to be your only burst then it's a sad day for you, I suggest you play a Mag DK open world and tell me how fast you re-log to your sorc. I've now even do not believe you own a Mag DK with these responses, I suggest you play the class whether Mag or Stam (don't rely on proc sets/heavy armor for stam).

I never watch linked videos, I didn't watch this one either.
My post was not a reference to any video, but a referance to what I encounter in game.

Many sorcerers rely on meteor for their burst, all magicka nightblades rely on soul tether for their burst, Nightblades rely on incap strike for their burst. But ohhh, DK need to be an exception or what ? No, Dk can rely on ults for burst just like all other classes do. Stop thinking that you should be special. You cannot kill a good player without an ult, that's very unlikely at least. Ults are always the key. You can't expect your dots to do all the work for you. Whip spam won't kill anyone, you need stuns and ults.

Since you seem to refuse these, I am no surprised that you are plagued with failure, because you refuse to open your mind.
It could be a lack of experience at your end, because you probably only play in groups and lack the needed understanding. Solo players however, know these issues very well.

CubanRay · January 2017

Carbonised wrote: »

CubanRay wrote: »

All I want is a skill price reduction and I will give it another chance.

I don't want a skill cost decrease, I want Battle Roar to be buffed, Battle Roar to not be afected by Battle Spirit, and Banner lowered to 200 ult instead of 250. Now that they nerfed Banner, the cost should be decreased.

That alone would make my mDK sustain better, and also rely on our class feature of regaining ressouces from Battle Roar.

Oh, and I also want the shield from Ferocious Leap removed, and replaced with a flame DoT on affected targets. Would make slotting Ferocious Leap worth it, which it isn't now. It's just a poor man's meteor, really.

Well to me the skills are too expensive and the ultis are crappie,didn't like how DK sustain to be honest,but we both think differently I guess.