Desert Rose nerf

React · January 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stamina is far easier to sustain than magic in every type of content I have played from VMOL to VMA to Cyro. So we should stop having that fight. Stamina users are able to stack three proc (damage) sets and sustain for days in PVP. Magic usure are essentially required to devote a 5-piece set to managing their resources.

Virtually every stamina build out there will have higher Stam regen than I do magic regen and higher weapon damage than I do spell damage. This set leveled the playing field when out numbered. That's it. It didn't get kills for you like half the Stam sets in cyro.

This was combo result of streamer hype and a really bad new mechanic in iceblocking. Did this set need a small nerf? Perhaps, but ZOS just killed it.

Remind me, which of those 3 proc sets giveso sustain? Is it widomaker? Nope. VEli? Nope. Viper? Nope.

krathos · January 2017

i'm just glad i didn't drop the crap load of ap or gold to get it in perfect trait weapons/shields... almost did.

Riggsy · January 2017

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

It was never a problem. What you will see now is Lich, Syrabane or Withered Hand on Sword and Shield bar and Black Rose or Bloodthorn on Ice Staff bar.

Unless ZOS nerf all those sets too because they won't admit Ice Staff blocking was a bad idea.

Yeah can I see Syrabane jewelry and s/b with Black Rose armor and Ice Staff as the new meta

Glory · January 2017

Valencer wrote: »

The problem with viewing a set like desert rose as a crutch to fight outnumbered with is that fighting outnumbered should be supported by proper in-game mechanics that everyone can use if they have the skill/experience for it, and not some specific gimmicky 5 piece set.

While I agree with you, is theorycrafting and build choice no longer a thing involved in the experience and skill of playing this game?

Sugaroverdose · January 2017

Liam12548 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stamina is far easier to sustain than magic in every type of content I have played from VMOL to VMA to Cyro. So we should stop having that fight. Stamina users are able to stack three proc (damage) sets and sustain for days in PVP. Magic usure are essentially required to devote a 5-piece set to managing their resources.

Virtually every stamina build out there will have higher Stam regen than I do magic regen and higher weapon damage than I do spell damage. This set leveled the playing field when out numbered. That's it. It didn't get kills for you like half the Stam sets in cyro.

This was combo result of streamer hype and a really bad new mechanic in iceblocking. Did this set need a small nerf? Perhaps, but ZOS just killed it.

Remind me, which of those 3 proc sets giveso sustain? Is it widomaker? Nope. VEli? Nope. Viper? Nope.

They all gives you indirect sustain - you deal *** ton of damage without spending even penny on it, don't even try to pretend that you didn't think that way, it's f obvious.

To all - desert rose only procs when you get damage, not attacked, not dodged, only when your health drops, with current meta it insanely underperforming set in situations when you fight less than 3 people.

On live it's much less cheap trade than dark deal or redguard "press HA" which actually requires you to drop damage to sustain and always forces you to be focused.

Set is gone anyway, mDK getting nerfed once again, don't know how new CDB works, but i don't think that mDK will perform at least in the same way as he is on live cause two best in slot sustain sets are nerfed to trash.

xblackroxe · January 2017

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stamina is far easier to sustain than magic in every type of content I have played from VMOL to VMA to Cyro. So we should stop having that fight. Stamina users are able to stack three proc (damage) sets and sustain for days in PVP. Magic usure are essentially required to devote a 5-piece set to managing their resources.

Virtually every stamina build out there will have higher Stam regen than I do magic regen and higher weapon damage than I do spell damage. This set leveled the playing field when out numbered. That's it. It didn't get kills for you like half the Stam sets in cyro.

This was combo result of streamer hype and a really bad new mechanic in iceblocking. Did this set need a small nerf? Perhaps, but ZOS just killed it.

Remind me, which of those 3 proc sets giveso sustain? Is it widomaker? Nope. VEli? Nope. Viper? Nope.

They all gives you indirect sustain - you deal *** ton of damage without spending even penny on it, don't even try to pretend that you didn't think that way, it's f obvious.

To all - desert rose only procs when you get damage, not attacked, not dodged, only when your health drops, with current meta it insanely underperforming set in situations when you fight less than 3 people.

On live it's much less cheap trade than dark deal or redguard "press HA" which actually requires you to drop damage to sustain and always forces you to be focused.

Set is gone anyway, mDK getting nerfed once again, don't know how new CDB works, but i don't think that mDK will perform at least in the same way as he is on live cause two best in slot sustain sets are nerfed to trash.

First of all Desert Rose was far from underperforming and will still be decent now. You wanna tell me that 2k extra regen that works while in mistform isn´t OP from one set? Like really all you need is 2-3 people that arent complete scrubs to have it up on cooldown and even against 1-2 ppl something like 500-1k regen when it procs every 2-4 seconds its really good.

This set isnt´underperforming in any way atm.

Also whats the 2nd sustain set that got nerfed to "trash" supposedly?

Sugaroverdose · January 2017

xblackroxe wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stamina is far easier to sustain than magic in every type of content I have played from VMOL to VMA to Cyro. So we should stop having that fight. Stamina users are able to stack three proc (damage) sets and sustain for days in PVP. Magic usure are essentially required to devote a 5-piece set to managing their resources.

Virtually every stamina build out there will have higher Stam regen than I do magic regen and higher weapon damage than I do spell damage. This set leveled the playing field when out numbered. That's it. It didn't get kills for you like half the Stam sets in cyro.

This was combo result of streamer hype and a really bad new mechanic in iceblocking. Did this set need a small nerf? Perhaps, but ZOS just killed it.

Remind me, which of those 3 proc sets giveso sustain? Is it widomaker? Nope. VEli? Nope. Viper? Nope.

They all gives you indirect sustain - you deal *** ton of damage without spending even penny on it, don't even try to pretend that you didn't think that way, it's f obvious.

To all - desert rose only procs when you get damage, not attacked, not dodged, only when your health drops, with current meta it insanely underperforming set in situations when you fight less than 3 people.

On live it's much less cheap trade than dark deal or redguard "press HA" which actually requires you to drop damage to sustain and always forces you to be focused.

Set is gone anyway, mDK getting nerfed once again, don't know how new CDB works, but i don't think that mDK will perform at least in the same way as he is on live cause two best in slot sustain sets are nerfed to trash.

First of all Desert Rose was far from underperforming and will still be decent now. You wanna tell me that 2k extra regen that works while in mistform isn´t OP from one set? Like really all you need is 2-3 people that arent complete scrubs to have it up on cooldown and even against 1-2 ppl something like 500-1k regen when it procs every 2-4 seconds its really good.

This set isnt´underperforming in any way atm.

Also whats the 2nd sustain set that got nerfed to "trash" supposedly?

This isn't 2k regen, it's 2k magicka with 10% chance from getting damage, so to have it 100% chance you need to be damaged by 10 persons. It isn't OP because you forced to be outnumbered to benefit from it. With 4s cooldown this set is useful only for frost+S&B permablock ZoS stupidity exploiting builds. Even magnus with it "procs once per 14 casts" chance is better now.

Trainee was nerfed in previous update, battle roar, you know?

xblackroxe · January 2017

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stamina is far easier to sustain than magic in every type of content I have played from VMOL to VMA to Cyro. So we should stop having that fight. Stamina users are able to stack three proc (damage) sets and sustain for days in PVP. Magic usure are essentially required to devote a 5-piece set to managing their resources.

Virtually every stamina build out there will have higher Stam regen than I do magic regen and higher weapon damage than I do spell damage. This set leveled the playing field when out numbered. That's it. It didn't get kills for you like half the Stam sets in cyro.

This was combo result of streamer hype and a really bad new mechanic in iceblocking. Did this set need a small nerf? Perhaps, but ZOS just killed it.

Remind me, which of those 3 proc sets giveso sustain? Is it widomaker? Nope. VEli? Nope. Viper? Nope.

They all gives you indirect sustain - you deal *** ton of damage without spending even penny on it, don't even try to pretend that you didn't think that way, it's f obvious.

To all - desert rose only procs when you get damage, not attacked, not dodged, only when your health drops, with current meta it insanely underperforming set in situations when you fight less than 3 people.

On live it's much less cheap trade than dark deal or redguard "press HA" which actually requires you to drop damage to sustain and always forces you to be focused.

Set is gone anyway, mDK getting nerfed once again, don't know how new CDB works, but i don't think that mDK will perform at least in the same way as he is on live cause two best in slot sustain sets are nerfed to trash.

First of all Desert Rose was far from underperforming and will still be decent now. You wanna tell me that 2k extra regen that works while in mistform isn´t OP from one set? Like really all you need is 2-3 people that arent complete scrubs to have it up on cooldown and even against 1-2 ppl something like 500-1k regen when it procs every 2-4 seconds its really good.

This set isnt´underperforming in any way atm.

Also whats the 2nd sustain set that got nerfed to "trash" supposedly?

This isn't 2k regen, it's 2k magicka with 10% chance from getting damage, so to have it 100% chance you need to be damaged by 10 persons. It isn't OP because you forced to be outnumbered to benefit from it. With 4s cooldown this set is useful only for frost+S&B permablock ZoS stupidity exploiting builds. Even magnus with it "procs once per 14 casts" chance is better now.

Trainee was nerfed in previous update, battle roar, you know?

L2count. Its 1k every second so 2k regen if always up. Actually its even more since it restores 2.4k every second (according to this link: http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Desert+Rose+Set)

And you simply don´t need 10 ppl to have a near 100% uptime. Most ppl have either dots running or are templars with jabs. So ONE normal person will hit you with 1 dot tick, 1 light attack, 1 skill and maybe 1 bash per second. So you take 3-4 hits per second from 1 guy. With 3 guys you have it already almost constantly proccing.

So even with the new cooldown if you get attacked by 3+ guys you get 2.4k per 4 sec which is almost 1.2k regen from one set which is still more than lich gives you WITH the nerf already accounted for.

Sugaroverdose · January 2017

xblackroxe wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stamina is far easier to sustain than magic in every type of content I have played from VMOL to VMA to Cyro. So we should stop having that fight. Stamina users are able to stack three proc (damage) sets and sustain for days in PVP. Magic usure are essentially required to devote a 5-piece set to managing their resources.

Virtually every stamina build out there will have higher Stam regen than I do magic regen and higher weapon damage than I do spell damage. This set leveled the playing field when out numbered. That's it. It didn't get kills for you like half the Stam sets in cyro.

This was combo result of streamer hype and a really bad new mechanic in iceblocking. Did this set need a small nerf? Perhaps, but ZOS just killed it.

Remind me, which of those 3 proc sets giveso sustain? Is it widomaker? Nope. VEli? Nope. Viper? Nope.

They all gives you indirect sustain - you deal *** ton of damage without spending even penny on it, don't even try to pretend that you didn't think that way, it's f obvious.

To all - desert rose only procs when you get damage, not attacked, not dodged, only when your health drops, with current meta it insanely underperforming set in situations when you fight less than 3 people.

On live it's much less cheap trade than dark deal or redguard "press HA" which actually requires you to drop damage to sustain and always forces you to be focused.

Set is gone anyway, mDK getting nerfed once again, don't know how new CDB works, but i don't think that mDK will perform at least in the same way as he is on live cause two best in slot sustain sets are nerfed to trash.

First of all Desert Rose was far from underperforming and will still be decent now. You wanna tell me that 2k extra regen that works while in mistform isn´t OP from one set? Like really all you need is 2-3 people that arent complete scrubs to have it up on cooldown and even against 1-2 ppl something like 500-1k regen when it procs every 2-4 seconds its really good.

This set isnt´underperforming in any way atm.

Also whats the 2nd sustain set that got nerfed to "trash" supposedly?

This isn't 2k regen, it's 2k magicka with 10% chance from getting damage, so to have it 100% chance you need to be damaged by 10 persons. It isn't OP because you forced to be outnumbered to benefit from it. With 4s cooldown this set is useful only for frost+S&B permablock ZoS stupidity exploiting builds. Even magnus with it "procs once per 14 casts" chance is better now.

Trainee was nerfed in previous update, battle roar, you know?

L2count. Its 1k every second so 2k regen if always up. Actually its even more since it restores 2.4k every second (according to this link: http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Desert+Rose+Set)

And you simply don´t need 10 ppl to have a near 100% uptime. Most ppl have either dots running or are templars with jabs. So ONE normal person will hit you with 1 dot tick, 1 light attack, 1 skill and maybe 1 bash per second. So you take 3-4 hits per second from 1 guy. With 3 guys you have it already almost constantly proccing.

So even with the new cooldown if you get attacked by 3+ guys you get 2.4k per 4 sec which is almost 1.2k regen from one set which is still more than lich gives you WITH the nerf already accounted for.

2.4k with 15% chance means that it will proc in 1v1 with this formula:
100/15/2+4=7.3 seconds
get calculator, get snickers, you gonna do it, you'll start thinking that things not that way stupid as you think

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2017

ku5h wrote: »

Why are ppl constantly saying that you needed bunch of ppl to proc it regulary, when its just flat out not true. If a player is putting pressure on you he will do multiple damage tick on you per second.
example-StamSorc- poison injection, hurricane, LA and skill---that is 4 dmg ticks in one second and that is just basics, you could still add bleed dots, poison dots(x2) and other stuff.
So lets not kid ourselves, if 3 ppl are preasuring you and they are not potatoes, they could proc your DR every single second and that is with 10% chance.

All the more reason they got this nerf wrong. I do not disagree that a slight nerf was in order, but they beat it to death.

The devs comment: Increasing the cooldown but also increasing the proc chance maintains the current level of Magicka returns when you are taking one hit every second, but keeps it from being extremely overpowered when you were taking multiple hits every second.

This sort of reminds me of the nerf to warhorn, where they change the calculations and say its the same thing. Well, its the same thing in a very limited scenario. With desert rose, its the same when only taking one hit at a time. With warhorn, its the same if you have nothing else buffing your crit multiplier. Both of these scenarios are fictional, and sometimes makes me wonder if the devs actually play the game.

In practice, they are right that its not a nerf if only getting hit once a second. In that scenario, Lich is a better regen set anyway. At the extreme end of things, lets say you are getting hit 20 times a second (probably dead anyway), this constitutes a 75% nerf to to this set. The nerf goes from a wash to 75% much quicker than you realize as you get hit more and more. Someone should probably make a graph. haha. Also, and kind of the point, you wont need to be 1vXing an entire zerg to feel the nerf. This definitely constitutes a significant nerf in 1v3 to 1v5 scenarios, which is realistically where this set shined.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2017

Liam12548 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stamina is far easier to sustain than magic in every type of content I have played from VMOL to VMA to Cyro. So we should stop having that fight. Stamina users are able to stack three proc (damage) sets and sustain for days in PVP. Magic usure are essentially required to devote a 5-piece set to managing their resources.

Virtually every stamina build out there will have higher Stam regen than I do magic regen and higher weapon damage than I do spell damage. This set leveled the playing field when out numbered. That's it. It didn't get kills for you like half the Stam sets in cyro.

This was combo result of streamer hype and a really bad new mechanic in iceblocking. Did this set need a small nerf? Perhaps, but ZOS just killed it.

Remind me, which of those 3 proc sets giveso sustain? Is it widomaker? Nope. VEli? Nope. Viper? Nope.

That's the whole point i was making. Stamina users dont need to run specific sustain sets and magic users do. I play both, I get how it works. Sustain is far easier on stamina than magic. Also, a stam user can press a light attack and proc three sets for a kill. That is infinite sustain in theory. You get a kill for literally no cost. Cant do that on magic.

kookster · January 2017

I think the proc chance should be increased to 40%.

Why:
They increased the cooldown by 400% from, 1 second to 4. They only increased the proc chance to 15% which is a 150% increase. 40% proc chance would be 400% so that way.

I believe the main issue was how often you are getting resources. So I think increasing the proc chance wont break the set still.

FENGRUSH · January 2017

Can people please stop trying to do math in here. It hurts to watch.

xblackroxe · January 2017

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stamina is far easier to sustain than magic in every type of content I have played from VMOL to VMA to Cyro. So we should stop having that fight. Stamina users are able to stack three proc (damage) sets and sustain for days in PVP. Magic usure are essentially required to devote a 5-piece set to managing their resources.

Virtually every stamina build out there will have higher Stam regen than I do magic regen and higher weapon damage than I do spell damage. This set leveled the playing field when out numbered. That's it. It didn't get kills for you like half the Stam sets in cyro.

This was combo result of streamer hype and a really bad new mechanic in iceblocking. Did this set need a small nerf? Perhaps, but ZOS just killed it.

Remind me, which of those 3 proc sets giveso sustain? Is it widomaker? Nope. VEli? Nope. Viper? Nope.

They all gives you indirect sustain - you deal *** ton of damage without spending even penny on it, don't even try to pretend that you didn't think that way, it's f obvious.

To all - desert rose only procs when you get damage, not attacked, not dodged, only when your health drops, with current meta it insanely underperforming set in situations when you fight less than 3 people.

On live it's much less cheap trade than dark deal or redguard "press HA" which actually requires you to drop damage to sustain and always forces you to be focused.

Set is gone anyway, mDK getting nerfed once again, don't know how new CDB works, but i don't think that mDK will perform at least in the same way as he is on live cause two best in slot sustain sets are nerfed to trash.

First of all Desert Rose was far from underperforming and will still be decent now. You wanna tell me that 2k extra regen that works while in mistform isn´t OP from one set? Like really all you need is 2-3 people that arent complete scrubs to have it up on cooldown and even against 1-2 ppl something like 500-1k regen when it procs every 2-4 seconds its really good.

This set isnt´underperforming in any way atm.

Also whats the 2nd sustain set that got nerfed to "trash" supposedly?

This isn't 2k regen, it's 2k magicka with 10% chance from getting damage, so to have it 100% chance you need to be damaged by 10 persons. It isn't OP because you forced to be outnumbered to benefit from it. With 4s cooldown this set is useful only for frost+S&B permablock ZoS stupidity exploiting builds. Even magnus with it "procs once per 14 casts" chance is better now.

Trainee was nerfed in previous update, battle roar, you know?

L2count. Its 1k every second so 2k regen if always up. Actually its even more since it restores 2.4k every second (according to this link: http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Desert+Rose+Set)

And you simply don´t need 10 ppl to have a near 100% uptime. Most ppl have either dots running or are templars with jabs. So ONE normal person will hit you with 1 dot tick, 1 light attack, 1 skill and maybe 1 bash per second. So you take 3-4 hits per second from 1 guy. With 3 guys you have it already almost constantly proccing.

So even with the new cooldown if you get attacked by 3+ guys you get 2.4k per 4 sec which is almost 1.2k regen from one set which is still more than lich gives you WITH the nerf already accounted for.

2.4k with 15% chance means that it will proc in 1v1 with this formula:
100/15/2+4=7.3 seconds
get calculator, get snickers, you gonna do it, you'll start thinking that things not that way stupid as you think

Lets break it down again:
The chance that it didnt proc 1sec after cooldown is over is ~60% with a normal guy hitting you 4 sec after cooldown (~12-16 hits in that timeframe) the chance to not have proccd went down to ~7-15% depending if you use 12 or 16 hits. So 2.4k every 8 sec equals 600 regen. So even in solo your mag regen is still double of what blackrose would give you (ofc blackrose has better other boni but this is only for the regen part)
NOTE: thats after the nerf with a 4 sec cooldown.

Now applying the same to live right now that 2.4k /2.5 which is a bit less than 1k regen now.

All this vs one guy.

If you say instead of 4 sec getting hit by 4 guys.

You now have ~7-15% to not proc it in the first second so,
AFTER NERF: 1k reg against 4 guys
LIVE: 2.4k reg against 4 guys

CONCLUSION: This sets is op af right now and will still be a strong alternative to lich for tanky classes like dk and templar.

Riggsy · January 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stamina users dont need to run specific sustain sets and magic users do.

lol yeah because Black Rose isnt a thing, your 3 set proc example is extreme because you're basically describing only how some gankers play. You might have a point for stam sustain if more people wore medium armor but they dont.

Strider_Roshin · January 2017

So ZOS introduces a broken mechanic, and now our item sets have to pay for it. Solid work

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2017

Riggsy wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stamina users dont need to run specific sustain sets and magic users do.

lol yeah because Black Rose isnt a thing, your 3 set proc example is extreme because you're basically describing only how some gankers play. You might have a point for stam sustain if more people wore medium armor but they dont.

Yep probably an extreme example, but it's not far off. What do most stamina users wear? 5 black rose, veli and viper. So one sustain set and 2 proc sets. They still end up hitting harder than magic and sustaining better. At least that's what i run anyway.

If I want to sustain like that on my mDK, I usually go 5 black rose/ 5 desert rose and bloodspwan or maybe grothdarr. Problem is that to on magic I am doing that at the expense of a lot of damage.

Glory · January 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Riggsy wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stamina users dont need to run specific sustain sets and magic users do.

lol yeah because Black Rose isnt a thing, your 3 set proc example is extreme because you're basically describing only how some gankers play. You might have a point for stam sustain if more people wore medium armor but they dont.

Yep probably an extreme example, but it's not far off. What do most stamina users wear? 5 black rose, veli and viper. So one sustain set and 2 proc sets. They still end up hitting harder than magic and sustaining better.

This is pretty accurate. Lol at people in this thread saying that magicka has better sustain sets when it's been blatantly obvious that stamina sustain is SIGNIFICANTLY easier to manage, and people have been able to pump damage for stamina instead of sustain.

Chrlynsch · January 2017

Ewww a maths....

Metafae · January 2017

Durham wrote: »

Metafae wrote: »

This set was OP, so I understand the nerf. It still makes me sad though.

I was using the set on my Tanks in PvE. I had a Stam DK tank that would cast spells for ever because of this set. Chains for days, Talons and Igneus Shields non-stop. Infinite Igneus Shields = Infinite Stamina.

This is what made it too OP. But I'm sad that I'll actually have to get another set that works better for me. Maybe I'll use Alkosh. Who knows.

Lets all have a moment of silence for our now deceased Desert Rose. . . . . You were good while you lasted.

Igneus Shield does not give you Infinate Stamina 5% Stam return 2k on 40k Stamina ... it helps a ton but infinate is an exaggeration...

Sure I was exaggerating, that was intended to be obvious. I simply meant that my tank could hold block non-stop and I would never run out of stamina because if my stamina was getting low, I'd spam Igneus Shield and I'd get all my stamina back in a short time, and this would hardly impact my magicka pool because it was constantly being topped up by the 1 second cool-down.

Metafae · January 2017

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Where's the stamina version of the warlock set that gives you 10k stamina when you are low?

Where is the stamina version of seducer? Marksman?

Where's the stamina furnace set or the Stamina lich set?

Lets not forget that Vicious Ophidian basically acted like the Stamina version of Seducer (Giving you 8% cost reduction on Stamina Skills) While also giving you a series of Offensive bonuses which the Seducer set did not give magicka users, which essentially made VO better as an overall set than seducer ever was.

On top of it giving reduced cost, it also would give you a burst of stamina when someone nearby died if they were killed by someone in your group, or their death was helped by someone in your group. There was no cool-down on that stamina return either. It would also give you major expedition at the same time, which stamina users have a lot of sources of major expedition, its magic users that could really be getting more help in that department.

Magus · January 2017

This is why we can't have nice things. I'm using this setup for months and months and months, and someone let the streamers know about it, who then make build videos showcasing it, and now it's nerfed.

usmcjdking · January 2017

Are people really suggesting stam PVPers use VO in PVP for sustain?

Like, is the really happening?

Seriously?

Metafae · January 2017

usmcjdking wrote: »

Are people really suggesting stam PVPers use VO in PVP for sustain?

Like, is the really happening?

Seriously?

Now now, don't be confusing what I'm trying to say.

I was just making a point that there is a set that can be compared to those sets listed in some way.

I honestly don't care about stam sustain in PvP because I don't PvP. By that logic, I also don't care about magicka sustain in PvP. You do what you have to for that zone, I'm sure everyone has their own way of doing things.

Calboy · January 2017

Magus wrote: »

This is why we can't have nice things. I'm using this setup for months and months and months, and someone let the streamers know about it, who then make build videos showcasing it, and now it's nerfed.

Spot on. Now my gold trainee and desert rose are useless and my mdk is nerfed to the ground.

bowmanz607 · January 2017

Calboy wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

This is why we can't have nice things. I'm using this setup for months and months and months, and someone let the streamers know about it, who then make build videos showcasing it, and now it's nerfed.

Spot on. Now my gold trainee and desert rose are useless and my mdk is nerfed to the ground.

Haven't tested the new heal yet, but if the numbers are good mag dk is in a real nice spot this patch. Th8s change won't change that.

Riggsy · January 2017

Metafae wrote: »

Now now, don't be confusing what I'm trying to say.

I was just making a point that there is a set that can be compared to those sets listed in some way.

I honestly don't care about stam sustain in PvP because I don't PvP. By that logic, I also don't care about magicka sustain in PvP. You do what you have to for that zone, I'm sure everyone has their own way of doing things.

Seriously, then how can you comment about PVP? No one, and I mean no one is running around in VS gear in Cyrodiil. Not to mention acquiring VS gear requires running trials. Meanwhile plenty of people run seducer because its a solid set (especially in non-CP camapigns) that you can craft to exact specs desired.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Yep probably an extreme example, but it's not far off. What do most stamina users wear? 5 black rose, veli and viper. So one sustain set and 2 proc sets. They still end up hitting harder than magic and sustaining better. At least that's what i run anyway.

If I want to sustain like that on my mDK, I usually go 5 black rose/ 5 desert rose and bloodspwan or maybe grothdarr. Problem is that to on magic I am doing that at the expense of a lot of damage.

Again veli and viper combo is mostly seen on gank builds. I think the popular helm for stam is, and will continue to be, bloodspawn. Ive pvped with mag and stam dks and think the issue isnt regen but cost of mag abilities versus stam. However when you factor in what else stam is used for (blocking, running, bash, sneak, break-free) you realize both pools are taxed hard. I think it will be interesting to see how ice tanking evolves in pvp and think that will be the new meta regardless of desert rose nerf.

driosketch · January 2017

Man, this set has been my base in one form or another since VR16 was introduced. It would often proc 2 seconds in a row off poison ticks, and other times not at all in a fight. That was it's charm though. I just grabbed some legs for 2k and gilded them not too long ago to better work around my infallible aether pieces. One more way my main is getting savaged this next update.

Sugaroverdose · January 2017

xblackroxe wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stamina is far easier to sustain than magic in every type of content I have played from VMOL to VMA to Cyro. So we should stop having that fight. Stamina users are able to stack three proc (damage) sets and sustain for days in PVP. Magic usure are essentially required to devote a 5-piece set to managing their resources.

Virtually every stamina build out there will have higher Stam regen than I do magic regen and higher weapon damage than I do spell damage. This set leveled the playing field when out numbered. That's it. It didn't get kills for you like half the Stam sets in cyro.

This was combo result of streamer hype and a really bad new mechanic in iceblocking. Did this set need a small nerf? Perhaps, but ZOS just killed it.

Remind me, which of those 3 proc sets giveso sustain? Is it widomaker? Nope. VEli? Nope. Viper? Nope.

They all gives you indirect sustain - you deal *** ton of damage without spending even penny on it, don't even try to pretend that you didn't think that way, it's f obvious.

To all - desert rose only procs when you get damage, not attacked, not dodged, only when your health drops, with current meta it insanely underperforming set in situations when you fight less than 3 people.

On live it's much less cheap trade than dark deal or redguard "press HA" which actually requires you to drop damage to sustain and always forces you to be focused.

Set is gone anyway, mDK getting nerfed once again, don't know how new CDB works, but i don't think that mDK will perform at least in the same way as he is on live cause two best in slot sustain sets are nerfed to trash.

First of all Desert Rose was far from underperforming and will still be decent now. You wanna tell me that 2k extra regen that works while in mistform isn´t OP from one set? Like really all you need is 2-3 people that arent complete scrubs to have it up on cooldown and even against 1-2 ppl something like 500-1k regen when it procs every 2-4 seconds its really good.

This set isnt´underperforming in any way atm.

Also whats the 2nd sustain set that got nerfed to "trash" supposedly?

This isn't 2k regen, it's 2k magicka with 10% chance from getting damage, so to have it 100% chance you need to be damaged by 10 persons. It isn't OP because you forced to be outnumbered to benefit from it. With 4s cooldown this set is useful only for frost+S&B permablock ZoS stupidity exploiting builds. Even magnus with it "procs once per 14 casts" chance is better now.

Trainee was nerfed in previous update, battle roar, you know?

L2count. Its 1k every second so 2k regen if always up. Actually its even more since it restores 2.4k every second (according to this link: http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Desert+Rose+Set)

And you simply don´t need 10 ppl to have a near 100% uptime. Most ppl have either dots running or are templars with jabs. So ONE normal person will hit you with 1 dot tick, 1 light attack, 1 skill and maybe 1 bash per second. So you take 3-4 hits per second from 1 guy. With 3 guys you have it already almost constantly proccing.

So even with the new cooldown if you get attacked by 3+ guys you get 2.4k per 4 sec which is almost 1.2k regen from one set which is still more than lich gives you WITH the nerf already accounted for.

2.4k with 15% chance means that it will proc in 1v1 with this formula:
100/15/2+4=7.3 seconds
get calculator, get snickers, you gonna do it, you'll start thinking that things not that way stupid as you think

Lets break it down again:
The chance that it didnt proc 1sec after cooldown is over is ~60% with a normal guy hitting you 4 sec after cooldown (~12-16 hits in that timeframe) the chance to not have proccd went down to ~7-15% depending if you use 12 or 16 hits. So 2.4k every 8 sec equals 600 regen. So even in solo your mag regen is still double of what blackrose would give you (ofc blackrose has better other boni but this is only for the regen part)
NOTE: thats after the nerf with a 4 sec cooldown.

Now applying the same to live right now that 2.4k /2.5 which is a bit less than 1k regen now.

All this vs one guy.

If you say instead of 4 sec getting hit by 4 guys.

You now have ~7-15% to not proc it in the first second so,
AFTER NERF: 1k reg against 4 guys
LIVE: 2.4k reg against 4 guys

CONCLUSION: This sets is op af right now and will still be a strong alternative to lich for tanky classes like dk and templar.

16 hits in 4s from one person? It's not PvE where you replay dot rotation every 5-10 seconds on non-countering mob, don't forget i also trying to survive and kill them. If you talking from proctard perspective who actually guaranteed to get such amount of hits without being octopus than your play style is broken thing not desertrose which works as health-to-magicka exchange

Wreuntzylla · January 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stamina is far easier to sustain than magic in every type of content I have played from VMOL to VMA to Cyro. So we should stop having that fight. Stamina users are able to stack three proc (damage) sets and sustain for days in PVP. Magic usure are essentially required to devote a 5-piece set to managing their resources.

Virtually every stamina build out there will have higher Stam regen than I do magic regen and higher weapon damage than I do spell damage. This set leveled the playing field when out numbered. That's it. It didn't get kills for you like half the Stam sets in cyro.

This was combo result of streamer hype and a really bad new mechanic in iceblocking. Did this set need a small nerf? Perhaps, but ZOS just killed it.

Remind me, which of those 3 proc sets giveso sustain? Is it widomaker? Nope. VEli? Nope. Viper? Nope.

That's the whole point i was making. Stamina users dont need to run specific sustain sets and magic users do. I play both, I get how it works. Sustain is far easier on stamina than magic. Also, a stam user can press a light attack and proc three sets for a kill. That is infinite sustain in theory. You get a kill for literally no cost. Cant do that on magic.

Many of these are fantastic heal/stam sets with no magicka analogue, but Vigor makes them largely irrelevant. With the change to vitality pots, maybe they will start to see some use. And yes, vicious ophidian is used in PvP by some players because even though it's a drop and not customizable, it is extremely good in certain builds.

Sentinel of Rkugamz (pre-crit nerf, 1600 health/sec, 800 stam/sec)

Barkskin

Bone Pirate Tatters (compare amber plasm)

Kyne's Kiss

Shadow Walker (compare to Prisoner's rags)

Witchman (compare to Lamia's song)

Vicious Serpent (compare to robes of the withered hand)

Quick Serpent (compare seducer)

Marksman

Essence thief (to hard to use in PvP but its there)

Hunt Leader