What do you do when the DPS sucks in group dungeons?

DRXHarbinger · January 2017

Other

Carry. You forgot that option. Even well equipped tanks and healers can carry the group. Except for Mazzatun.

Gargath · January 2017

Other

With 2 dps in group there is still another dps, if that's me, I just play for both of us

.

GaldorP · January 2017

Do nothing and plays on forever

If it's normal mode: I don't care. Even when I'm healer or tank I can solo most bosses (or provide a good amount of the dps needed) so it's not a problem (though mechanic-driven fights like Planar Inhibitor or the 2nd boss in FG2 can be really annoying if people don't listen or can't understand my explanations).

In vet mode, I usually see at the first boss if the dps is not even remotely high enough for the dungeon. If it's a DLC dungeon or CoA II, I simply tell the group that I honestely don't think that this group can beat the dungeon. If there's no reaction to that (no communication either) I leave. In easier vet dungeons I'll give it a try even if dps is horrible (though I've regretted that quite a few times when a dps leaves after like 30 minutes and the tank and healer have basically carried them through almost the entire dungeon).

If somebody completely ignores boss mechanics even though I've explained them in group chat in several languages more than once, and if the group keeps wiping because of it, then I start a vote to kick that person. If someone's afk for more than 5 minutes, I'd also kick them. If someone's afk at the dungeon entrance when the group reaches the first boss, I'd kick them for that, too.

The funny thing is, that the few rare times I actually get to play dps in random groups (which is my prefered role), people will often complain about my dps. And I have around 32k single-target dps self-buffed on my Stam DK (Sharpened Maelstrom weapons DW + Bow, 2 Kragh, 5 TBS, 3 VO, 7 pieces medium w. divines). Now, I know that's not perfect, but this is so ridiculous when I think about how many dps players I got in my groups when I played healer or tank who couldn't even do 10k dps.

Artemiisia · January 2017

well lets turn this around:

I just was in a group in a dungeon, where healer was pulling 10k dps as well as healing, the downside to this was the other two dps'er didn't get any buffs from the healer at all, no combat prayer, no power of light, no aggressive warhorn, no shards.

Which meant the dps'er lose both 10k dps each or even more due to that, so now I ask did dps suck here?

I dont think so at all.

I have seen tanks only taunt with inner fire, so no major fracture on bosses, thats like 10-15% dps lose.

MEBengalsFan2001 · January 2017

Stillian wrote: »

Usually i send a link for some guide on the net with skillbuild pictures, if the guy improves at least a bit we go on, if he starts bitching he is out. Unfortunately most players are really unhappy with pointing out that they deal damage that is closer to zero than to somehting that can be considered damage, and even more unhappy with someone giving them advice, so i guess votekick is a thing that happens most often.

People can train in normal dungeons before they attempt veteran ones.

#Elitism4Life

When tank is not tanking he is kicked, healer is not healing he is kicked, so why when a damage dealer does not deal damage, does not play the role he signed up as, why should this be tolerated?

Because ESO like all other MMOs are ruled by DD that have no clue how to be DD.

LadyNalcarya · January 2017

Other

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Stillian wrote: »

Usually i send a link for some guide on the net with skillbuild pictures, if the guy improves at least a bit we go on, if he starts bitching he is out. Unfortunately most players are really unhappy with pointing out that they deal damage that is closer to zero than to somehting that can be considered damage, and even more unhappy with someone giving them advice, so i guess votekick is a thing that happens most often.

People can train in normal dungeons before they attempt veteran ones.

#Elitism4Life

When tank is not tanking he is kicked, healer is not healing he is kicked, so why when a damage dealer does not deal damage, does not play the role he signed up as, why should this be tolerated?

Because ESO like all other MMOs are ruled by DD that have no clue how to be DD.

This.
Also, low dps, lets say ~15k is one thing, and 0-5k is another. And I saw a lot of the last group lately, when pugging in /z. I dont know if they bought accounts or just grinded in Skyreach, but they had no clue how to play the game and their role. Standing in red, not even being able to follow the group (had one of them getting lost in wayrest sewers while looting the zombies we killed), not using abilities at all...
Its ok to kick a healer that joined a group but doesnt plan to heal. Its ok to kick a tank that refuses to taunt.
Why its not ok to kick a dd that doesnt play his role? If a person cant even pull 10k, nothing can be fixed during a dungeon run, probably they have wrong gear, abilities (if they even use abilities lol), stats (hp stacking fake dds lol). And most importantly, almost all of them are extremely arrogant even if you're politely offering help. They think they've grinded 300-400-500 champion points and their dps is good by default, even if its doesnt reach 1k.

kylewwefan · January 2017

Other

I've had a good deal of enjoyment and frustration trying to drag lowbies through vet content. Sometimes though, it just can't be done.

I was just trying out this red mountain/ VO/ veledrith set with some very nice purple VO decisive swords. My DPS was pitiful, and the other DPS was not good either. So I switched to legendary Hundings from red mountain and it went much better.

The other DPS was still trash, but the dungeon still went much smoother anyways. Because I'm awesome.

Stopnaggin · January 2017

Teach them and keeps trying

Try to help them, if they don't listen or get pissy about trying to help I just leave. I don't expect anything when using gf, high cp or low some people just don't get it and don't want to think there is a better way. I never call em out in group, I will whisper and ask what setup they are using and offer suggestions. If they have a fairly good setup I can adjust my own to fill in the gaps.

As for the poll kinda one sided isn't it? Been in with bad tanks and healers just as often, so yeah.

Dr_Resilient · January 2017

Other

In dungeons I play only as a Healer. First, I try to coordinate the group, if it doesn't work, I vote to kick, if it doesn't work, I leave. I have only a few minutes/day to play, I will not waste it with these people.

PurifedBladez · January 2017

I out dps a Stam sorc with a nb pvp build in a dungeon yesterday. He died on last boss and left right after. I felt bad, I wish he hadn't left lol, no one cared and it was super easy.

Jeremy · January 2017

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

akl77 wrote: »

Fungal 2 second boss ties you down, how do you solo? Mazzatune how do you solo when you got green poison?
If you really a pro, you actually can tell if the group dps will work from attacking 1st group of mobs, you'll know by judging the speed of things die, and you'll know if they can beat the boss down the road.

I have seen players who could consistently survive being chained down on the second boss in Fungal Grotto II. I asked him/her how they were doing it but I didn't get a straight answer - just something about using potions. Not sure if the player was BSing me or not because I tried to use potions while chained down and they did squat.

But there are ways to live through that move without killing the add. I have seen it myself.

@Jeremy th e player was probably just wearing Eternal Warrior set or some other tanking set like this one..
(2 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken

(3 items) Gain Minor Aegis at all times, reducing your damage taken from Dungeon and Trial Monsters by 5%.

(4 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

(5 items) When you die, you instead turn into a statue for 3 seconds and gain 200 Ultimate. While a statue you are immune to all negative effects but can still be healed. This effect can occur once every 10 minutes.

(5 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken

I had considered this. But it couldn't be it because this player survived being chained down multiple times during the same fight. So any effect that can occur only once every 10 minutes doesn't explain it.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2017

This is really only relevant if I am tanking pledges. If I am DPSing, I can carry an AFK DPS through any pledge if the support is good. If I am healing, I can usually adjust to put out enough DPS to carry some pretty low DPS through anything save DLC dungeons, and maybe a couple others with real DPS checks.

If tanking, it can be frustrating no doubt. I will never start with an unknown group on DLC dungeons or some of the harder vet dungeons like Darkshade or COA. Pretty much everything else can be tanked indefinitely, so that is usually what I will do to give the pugs a clear. Thanks to Combat Metrics, I can see what the group DPS. When I am pug tanking, I have a decent idea what its going to take to clear most stuff. Whether we go onto harder stuff usually depends on the group damage number. The average group DPS on pug runs is usually between 20-25k which is going to cause roadblocks on certain stuff.

I will always offer suggestions if people want them, but I certainly wont force it on people. I have never initiated a group kick, and would only vote to group kick someone if they were clearly not attempting to play the role for which they queued.

NordSwordnBoard · January 2017

Teach them and keeps trying

I'll help anybody willing to listen, but we are not going to the top of the WGT for only one key.

I don't bother with asking about others' skills and gear because I'm not going to re-invent the wheel for someone while two other people wait. Opinions are like... everybody's got one - I came here to fight, but not argue.

It really helps to have your own tank and healer toons to log on to avoid the AF timer. When the hist hits the fan and its clearly better to start anew than keep trying, you are less frustrated about quitting knowing the que will get you right back into it.

Morbash · January 2017

Teach them and keeps trying

I usually offer advice. If they refuse it and take over 30 minutes to kill one boss, I bid the group farewell and take my leave. Then I search for another group in zone. No big deal.

VonSwaego · January 2017

I run a dps tank, and my healer can't deal some good dps too. Don't really care what the dps is doing most of the time. We can two man most vet dungeons. We will help/ drag anyone through dungeons. Unless your a 561 elitist, then your kicked immediately. You know who you are.

Toast_STS · January 2017

Other

Happened to me the other day. My guildy wanted the helm from arx so we queued in as a healer (me) and a tank. Took the two random dps we got 5 Mins to clear the first mob so I quickly respecced to full DPS and basically soloed the dungeon and just let the dps die.

They gave me some kowtows after killing the end boss and we parted ways.

akl77 · January 2017

Leave the group yourself

Toast_STS wrote: »

Happened to me the other day. My guildy wanted the helm from arx so we queued in as a healer (me) and a tank. Took the two random dps we got 5 Mins to clear the first mob so I quickly respecced to full DPS and basically soloed the dungeon and just let the dps die.

They gave me some kowtows after killing the end boss and we parted ways.

Arx don't count, it can be soloed easily even on vet.

The poll is for what do you do when dps can't pass the boss like fungal 2 second boss, mazzautun, and the situations if your dps suck your group can't pass it.
Do you kick or leave or stay stuck for the whole night.

mvffins · January 2017

Leave the group yourself

Teach them? Not happening most the time time it's due to bad skill point allocation or a bad set, which they usually aren't prepared to fix in dungeon.

Kick the bad dps? Having to kick someone creates a cold environment with the rest of the group, and since there are 2 dpss they just might not be working well together hence hard to tell which one to kick sometimes.

mvffins · January 2017

Leave the group yourself

ArchMikem wrote: »

I have an example from my Guild's past attempt in Vet Wayrest Sewers.

tl;dr, give your group a few minutes to discuss strategy, instead of angrily hitting the kick button.

Totally sucks when the problem is someone in your guild. It's kind of why I go silent sometimes in guild chat when others ask for help as I don't want to be the one to say your not strong enough to do trials yet lol.

Chadak · January 2017

Teach them and keeps trying

I usually apologize for sucking, because the DPS doing the sucking is probably me.

BlanketFort · January 2017

Teach them and keeps trying

I've been on both situations. I was happy when my group stuck it through and worked as a team. I was also happy to help and stick around, especially when I know that it would take a long time to find a replacement.

The most I've waited, so far, is about an hour. Sure, I lost plenty of resources and had to repair gear, but I found the challenge fun for me.

The only time I'll leave is if I have to, due to real life obligations, or if the group refuses to work together, like being salty and uncooperative when talking mechanics and strategy.

SaRuZ · January 2017

It's even worse when they don't do their job. Tank taunts boss, healer heals tank, dps deal with adds as priority. That's how it should be.

As a tank 90% of time I have to pull aggro from boss & adds because DPS stand there hacking away at the boss while the healer has to do the dance of life away from the adds swarming him/her.

Deal.With.The.Ads DD's!

Also, I notice a lot of DPS are glass cannon's with no self heals slotted. Even I have vigor & dark deal. C'mon

visionality · January 2017

Other

It really depends on the dungeon and the situation.

If it's one of the easier dungeons and the DDs are lacking damage but not brains, I normally mention the dps-problem when it starts showing and give a hint or two on what skills to use and what mechanics to look out for. Putting a bit more dps on my own skill bar normally is enough to solve the problem and do the dungeon.

If the DDs are lacking skill AND brain, I just leave. Explaining wouldn't change anything because they think their low damage is due to bad tanking or bad healing, and kicking is not really my way of doing things. (Also as a healer or tank you quickly get a new group, so why bother with idiots?)

If the dungeon is just not doable without proper dps, I again leave. Kicking two bad DDs only gives you a very high chance to get two other bad DDs again, so essentially you're just wasting time.

Oh, and normally I don't do "heavy duty"-dungeons with random groups at all.

MEBengalsFan2001 · January 2017

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Stillian wrote: »

Usually i send a link for some guide on the net with skillbuild pictures, if the guy improves at least a bit we go on, if he starts bitching he is out. Unfortunately most players are really unhappy with pointing out that they deal damage that is closer to zero than to somehting that can be considered damage, and even more unhappy with someone giving them advice, so i guess votekick is a thing that happens most often.

People can train in normal dungeons before they attempt veteran ones.

#Elitism4Life

When tank is not tanking he is kicked, healer is not healing he is kicked, so why when a damage dealer does not deal damage, does not play the role he signed up as, why should this be tolerated?

Because ESO like all other MMOs are ruled by DD that have no clue how to be DD.

This.
Also, low dps, lets say ~15k is one thing, and 0-5k is another. And I saw a lot of the last group lately, when pugging in /z. I dont know if they bought accounts or just grinded in Skyreach, but they had no clue how to play the game and their role. Standing in red, not even being able to follow the group (had one of them getting lost in wayrest sewers while looting the zombies we killed), not using abilities at all...
Its ok to kick a healer that joined a group but doesnt plan to heal. Its ok to kick a tank that refuses to taunt.
Why its not ok to kick a dd that doesnt play his role? If a person cant even pull 10k, nothing can be fixed during a dungeon run, probably they have wrong gear, abilities (if they even use abilities lol), stats (hp stacking fake dds lol). And most importantly, almost all of them are extremely arrogant even if you're politely offering help. They think they've grinded 300-400-500 champion points and their dps is good by default, even if its doesnt reach 1k.

These players are within the casual crowd that would not use the forums or other media to improve.

I maybe only a lowly level 16 ATM, but it is because I am taking my time in each area completing all quest, finding all skyshards, using the crafting tables to improve my skill with crafting, and I know that when I hit end game my goal is to be a tank so I am learning what I can about my abilities now to see how they will help me or hinder me as a tank later on when I do hit end game. Many players just rush and do the things to get to end game without grinding for skyshards for instance whicha actually can hurt them if they don't have enough skill points.

deepseamk20b14_ESO · January 2017

Teach them and keeps trying

I always try to teach them the fight and go over rotations with their build. I generally will do this 4 or 5 times. If by then we can't beat the boss and the person can't get their rotation down I politely bow out and tell them good luck. This happened the other day when I plugged a selenes group for a pledge. I already did the dungeon several times that day farming the monster helm and this one group never faced selene. I tried several times to explain what they needed to do but we couldn't beat her on hard mode. I told them to do it without reading the book and we did it. I told them to take note of how we did it so next time they do that dungeon it should be easier for them.

Iselin · January 2017

Leave the group yourself

If DPS sucks and it's going to take a bit longer than usual I just grin and bear it.

But when you're at the Planar Inhibitor, you ask the low level players if they know the fight, they say nothing, and no one other than me closes portals and we wipe twice due to adds, as happened to me yesterday, I just wish them luck and leave.

AtraisMachina · January 2017

I do pretty much everything tbh. Just depends on my mood and their attitude. Some people are very willing to listen and change stuff up on the go. Some people dont have extras skill points and some are just morons who refuse to do anything that resembles meta. Just depands.

Wifeaggro13 · January 2017

Other

akl77 wrote: »

The healer and tank are awesome, but your group's dps sucks bad and can't beat the boss with the dps output, what do you do?

Example: vet fungal 2 2nd boss, cradle, Mazzatun, icp, coa 2, darkshade 2 2nd last boss, etc.

Get rid of your tank and healer because they are rarely needed in vr dungeons , pick 2 more good dps and zerg the dungeon the Zos way

abelsgmx · July 2018

Vote to kick them

I don't have care when is a low CP dps but when CP is high enough... Internet is your best friend, there are a lot of guides around

Drdeath20 · July 2018

Leave the group yourself

Its not elitism. There are vet dungeons that just cant be done with bad dps. Sometimes I just might stick around depending on how bad the rest of the team is, what dungeon were running and what kind of mood im in. More often than not after a few super long trash mob pulls my 15 minute time penalty is up and im gone.

I gave up trying to teach people with bad dps under 10k. If you have less than average 10k-20k dps than atleast you can be coached.