Can someone explain to me what's ZOS' reasoning for not giving dragonknight a class execute? There must be an explanation. Nightblade have an execute with a stam and mag morphs, sorcerer have curse, templar have radiant, so why dragonknights have non ?

miahus wrote: »

Can someone explain to me what's ZOS' reasoning for not giving dragonknight a class execute? There must be an explanation. Nightblade have an execute with a stam and mag morphs, sorcerer have curse, templar have radiant, so why dragonknights have non ?

As a NB, I can tell you that NBs executes are borderline useless. Sorcs have a decent passive with range execute and Jesus BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAM is the best execute in this game (28 mts away).

Though, I think DKs don't and should't need an execute. DKs need better DoTs and skills that help them to use those dots (Major defile).

Because being a (m)DK is all about sustain. Doing dmg with a skill that is expensive but ticks during 6 secs or moar. Saddly, DKs DoTs are purged/outhealed

miahus wrote: »

Can someone explain to me what's ZOS' reasoning for not giving dragonknight a class execute? There must be an explanation. Nightblade have an execute with a stam and mag morphs, sorcerer have curse, templar have radiant, so why dragonknights have non ?

Dots,

miahus wrote: »

Riggsy wrote: »

miahus wrote: »

Can someone explain to me what's ZOS' reasoning for not giving dragonknight a class execute? There must be an explanation. Nightblade have an execute with a stam and mag morphs, sorcerer have curse, templar have radiant, so why dragonknights have non ?

Wrobel said DKs werent meant to have an execute. The play style was supposed to be prolonged battle-bruiser (in PVP) but sadly other classes can hang just as well and do more damage.

Thanks for the explanation. Stamina dragonknight can use weapon ability executes, how does that fit in that logic? Maybe DKs werent meant to have an execute early in the game, but 2017 ESO is a different game than 2014 ESO. Not giving dks a class execute just puts mag dks in the bad place they are in, along with the lack of a proper reliable heal. Compare mag dk to stam dk, one gets executes and very reliable heals out of class, while mag dk is still stuck in its outdated intended role. I am strictly speaking from pvp perspective. I am fairly new, so I could be wrong about somethings, feel free to correct plz.

There's ony one weapon execute and is not gud. Most stamDKs I know almost never use it

The combo crit charge -> petrify-> WB/Dizz Swing -> DBoS/Take Flight is still too good to ignore it in PvP

Veg wrote: »

miahus wrote: »

Riggsy wrote: »

miahus wrote: »

Can someone explain to me what's ZOS' reasoning for not giving dragonknight a class execute? There must be an explanation. Nightblade have an execute with a stam and mag morphs, sorcerer have curse, templar have radiant, so why dragonknights have non ?

Wrobel said DKs werent meant to have an execute. The play style was supposed to be prolonged battle-bruiser (in PVP) but sadly other classes can hang just as well and do more damage.

Thanks for the explanation. Stamina dragonknight can use weapon ability executes, how does that fit in that logic? Maybe DKs werent meant to have an execute early in the game, but 2017 ESO is a different game than 2014 ESO. Not giving dks a class execute just puts mag dks in the bad place they are in, along with the lack of a proper reliable heal. Compare mag dk to stam dk, one gets executes and very reliable heals out of class, while mag dk is still stuck in its outdated intended role. I am strictly speaking from pvp perspective. I am fairly new, so I could be wrong about somethings, feel free to correct plz.

You're right actually. PvP has changed too much. mDK needs burst damage like other classes. I don't care if its an execute or just a good burst damage ability.

I see Ferocious leap as an easy way to get burst damage and something reasonable enough for the devs to actually change. I am well aware they NEVER make these changes and are very set on keeping each class in their own roles. They don't want mDK's to have burst damage because they weren't designed to 2.5 years ago.

It's gotten to the point where we either get burst damage so we can play the class or just don't play the class. There is no other solution. Buffing our dots or getting a 5% increase to whip doesn't change anything.

We needs kill mechanics and that means we need burst damage.

Sorry, no.

It is true that the game has changed, but you now why it has changed? Because of the same DK killing potential. If developers give back the killing potential to DKs, the "nerf DK" posts will come back again, and we will be again in this endless discussion.

DKs need, more than any other class, their tools for killing to be effective, and that means DoTs and sutain should be key. Currently DoTs are bad, and sustain (without dynamic ulti gen) is crap and healing is crappier. Once that's solved, DKs will be the killing machines they were once upon a time, without being OP.

Veg wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

miahus wrote: »

Riggsy wrote: »

miahus wrote: »

Can someone explain to me what's ZOS' reasoning for not giving dragonknight a class execute? There must be an explanation. Nightblade have an execute with a stam and mag morphs, sorcerer have curse, templar have radiant, so why dragonknights have non ?

Wrobel said DKs werent meant to have an execute. The play style was supposed to be prolonged battle-bruiser (in PVP) but sadly other classes can hang just as well and do more damage.

Thanks for the explanation. Stamina dragonknight can use weapon ability executes, how does that fit in that logic? Maybe DKs werent meant to have an execute early in the game, but 2017 ESO is a different game than 2014 ESO. Not giving dks a class execute just puts mag dks in the bad place they are in, along with the lack of a proper reliable heal. Compare mag dk to stam dk, one gets executes and very reliable heals out of class, while mag dk is still stuck in its outdated intended role. I am strictly speaking from pvp perspective. I am fairly new, so I could be wrong about somethings, feel free to correct plz.

You're right actually. PvP has changed too much. mDK needs burst damage like other classes. I don't care if its an execute or just a good burst damage ability.

I see Ferocious leap as an easy way to get burst damage and something reasonable enough for the devs to actually change. I am well aware they NEVER make these changes and are very set on keeping each class in their own roles. They don't want mDK's to have burst damage because they weren't designed to 2.5 years ago.

It's gotten to the point where we either get burst damage so we can play the class or just don't play the class. There is no other solution. Buffing our dots or getting a 5% increase to whip doesn't change anything.

We needs kill mechanics and that means we need burst damage.

Sorry, no.

It is true that the game has changed, but you now why it has changed? Because of the same DK killing potential. If developers give back the killing potential to DKs, the "nerf DK" posts will come back again, and we will be again in this endless discussion.

DKs need, more than any other class, their tools for killing to be effective, and that means DoTs and sutain should be key. Currently DoTs are bad, and sustain (without dynamic ulti gen) is crap and healing is crappier. Once that's solved, DKs will be the killing machines they were once upon a time, without being OP.

All im asking for is kill mechanics like DoS > Reverse slice. Is that kill mechanic op? If it is then every single stam build is op.

mDK's would not be over powered if we F-leap was on par with DoS. Then we would have half of what stam builds have.

Also our sustain before cp system with dynamic ult will never come back. Thats a hopeless case. They wont make our dots unpurgable either that would be silly so those will never be effective.

Major defile, that's all I want on mDKs dots.

Maybe change the combustion passive into giving major defle for 3/6 secs in all the dots skills in ardent flame

@Xvorg

Xvorg wrote: »

The combo crit charge -> petrify-> WB/Dizz Swing -> DBoS/Take Flight is still too good to ignore it in PvP

That combo in its self is out dated. Stam DKs who try to do that on me always end up dying first and fore most if you crit charge me then petrify I can break free/dodge the root doesn't keep me in place long enough for you to dizzing swing me into your ultimate.
DBoS is a good ultimate but if you igneous shield/vigor it, it'll mitigate the damage while take flight all around sucks. Onslaught is the best ultimate for a stam DK or any stam class IMO as it goes through armor entirely. A combo shouldn't warrant a classes execute being removed or replaced with something different.

Xvorg wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

miahus wrote: »

Riggsy wrote: »

miahus wrote: »

Can someone explain to me what's ZOS' reasoning for not giving dragonknight a class execute? There must be an explanation. Nightblade have an execute with a stam and mag morphs, sorcerer have curse, templar have radiant, so why dragonknights have non ?

Wrobel said DKs werent meant to have an execute. The play style was supposed to be prolonged battle-bruiser (in PVP) but sadly other classes can hang just as well and do more damage.

Thanks for the explanation. Stamina dragonknight can use weapon ability executes, how does that fit in that logic? Maybe DKs werent meant to have an execute early in the game, but 2017 ESO is a different game than 2014 ESO. Not giving dks a class execute just puts mag dks in the bad place they are in, along with the lack of a proper reliable heal. Compare mag dk to stam dk, one gets executes and very reliable heals out of class, while mag dk is still stuck in its outdated intended role. I am strictly speaking from pvp perspective. I am fairly new, so I could be wrong about somethings, feel free to correct plz.

You're right actually. PvP has changed too much. mDK needs burst damage like other classes. I don't care if its an execute or just a good burst damage ability.

I see Ferocious leap as an easy way to get burst damage and something reasonable enough for the devs to actually change. I am well aware they NEVER make these changes and are very set on keeping each class in their own roles. They don't want mDK's to have burst damage because they weren't designed to 2.5 years ago.

It's gotten to the point where we either get burst damage so we can play the class or just don't play the class. There is no other solution. Buffing our dots or getting a 5% increase to whip doesn't change anything.

We needs kill mechanics and that means we need burst damage.

Sorry, no.

It is true that the game has changed, but you now why it has changed? Because of the same DK killing potential. If developers give back the killing potential to DKs, the "nerf DK" posts will come back again, and we will be again in this endless discussion.

DKs need, more than any other class, their tools for killing to be effective, and that means DoTs and sutain should be key. Currently DoTs are bad, and sustain (without dynamic ulti gen) is crap and healing is crappier. Once that's solved, DKs will be the killing machines they were once upon a time, without being OP.

All im asking for is kill mechanics like DoS > Reverse slice. Is that kill mechanic op? If it is then every single stam build is op.

mDK's would not be over powered if we F-leap was on par with DoS. Then we would have half of what stam builds have.

Also our sustain before cp system with dynamic ult will never come back. Thats a hopeless case. They wont make our dots unpurgable either that would be silly so those will never be effective.

Major defile, that's all I want on mDKs dots.

Maybe change the combustion passive into giving major defle for 3/6 secs in all the dots skills in ardent flame

that would be a nice change. I'm pushing for something bigger. Something that can change our play-style from perma blocking to light armor burst damage.

I see Dragon leap as the solution. As it is we cannot bring down a targets health from 30k to 0 in under 5 seconds. Other classes can do this in 500-1000ms. I know this because i can do that on my stamblade and stam dk. its not easy but it is possible. This is not ganking its just acting on opportunities when your target is off guard and can take a while to pull off.

I want to be able to put on 5 burning spell weave and 5 sun and not be completely useless. I get that we still don't have any movement mechanics but we can use damage as a way to keep people from attacking us too much. At least we could if we did any damage.

Having perma blocking as the only viable play-style limits us tremendously. This is why no one plays a mDK in pvp. A magic templar can tank better than us and can still do burst damage if they want to. They really have no drawback other than no movement like us. Thats why everyone just plays templars.

Tagging @ZOS_RichLambert and @ZOS_GinaBruno as you guys have been the most responsive. Here are five suggestions--with explanations of my reasonings--I believe would make mDK competitive with the other classes while fulfilling its intended role of being a DoT-heavy class without an execute.

1: Coagulating Blood: Revert to healing for 33% of missing health, but now ignores battle spirit.

Reasoning: Dragon's Blood makes the most sense as an emergency heal that becomes more potent the closer to death the caster is. It also fulfills the role of being a sort of anti-execute for the one class which lacks an execute. If high-health builds are a concern, consider adding a flat cap to this ability so it cannot heal for more than 15k health.

2: Burning Embers: Convert the healing effect to a Heal over Time that ticks with each damage tick.

Reasoning: If Coag is made to be our burst heal, then we don't really need the burst heals from Embers. Rather, we need smaller heals to keep us topped off as Coag will be inefficient when closer to full health.

3: Flames of Oblivion: Convert this to a 15-second PBAoE that ramps up in damage every few seconds.

Reasoning: The issue with DoTs in PvP is that they are easily purged. That being said, I do NOT believe unpurgeable DoTs is the answer. Rather, PBAoE DoTs are the way to go because they can be avoided by movement, but cannot be purged. This gives mDK a method of keeping pressure on enemies while staying close to them.

4: Magma Shell: Increased duration to 15 seconds. Remove shielding effect. New effect: While active, your damage over time effects do an additional 33% damage.

Reasoning: An offensive buff to Magma Shell would simply be a terrific change for mDK. Since the Ultimate innately buffs your defense, a buff to offense means you could use it more strategically depending on the situation. Making the Ultimate increase your DoT damage would create interesting offensive potential for mDKs who maybe want to run squishier builds: Pop the ult, cast new PBAoE Flames of Oblivion, cast Burning Talons. That would hurt. But it would hurt without being stupid OP burst. And that's precisely the type of synergy mDK needs.

5: Ultimate Generating Passive: One of the consistent comments left in DK feedback is that the class lacks sustain. I am all for Battle Roar being our primary method of sustain. That being said, I do NOT want the class to go back to Banners every 10 seconds for infinite sustain. Rather, I would like to see one of our passives be updated to grant Minor Heroism while we have a DoT on an enemy. Simple and straightforward, but I think it would go a long way.

miahus wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

There's ony one weapon execute and is not gud. Most stamDKs I know almost never use it

The combo crit charge -> petrify-> WB/Dizz Swing -> DBoS/Take Flight is still too good to ignore it in PvP

I think there is more than just one weapon execute. There is the 2h execute, dw have slaughter passive, and bow have poison injection. A DK dot that works similar to poison injection's dot wouldn't be a bad idea don't you think?

I don't consider the DW passive as an execute (though steelnado is closer to it), while a dot that executes needs some help from another skill.

edit. Nevertheless, there should be a way to combine poison inject and venomous claw. That combo would be Ozom

Kilandros wrote: »

Tagging @ZOS_RichLambert and @ZOS_GinaBruno as you guys have been the most responsive. Here are five suggestions--with explanations of my reasonings--I believe would make mDK competitive with the other classes while fulfilling its intended role of being a DoT-heavy class without an execute.

1: Coagulating Blood: Revert to healing for 33% of missing health, but now ignores battle spirit.

Reasoning: Dragon's Blood makes the most sense as an emergency heal that becomes more potent the closer to death the caster is. It also fulfills the role of being a sort of anti-execute for the one class which lacks an execute. If high-health builds are a concern, consider adding a flat cap to this ability so it cannot heal for more than 15k health.

2: Burning Embers: Convert the healing effect to a Heal over Time that ticks with each damage tick.

Reasoning: If Coag is made to be our burst heal, then we don't really need the burst heals from Embers. Rather, we need smaller heals to keep us topped off as Coag will be inefficient when closer to full health.

3: Flames of Oblivion: Convert this to a 15-second PBAoE that ramps up in damage every few seconds.

Reasoning: The issue with DoTs in PvP is that they are easily purged. That being said, I do NOT believe unpurgeable DoTs is the answer. Rather, PBAoE DoTs are the way to go because they can be avoided by movement, but cannot be purged. This gives mDK a method of keeping pressure on enemies while staying close to them.

4: Magma Shell: Increased duration to 15 seconds. Remove shielding effect. New effect: While active, your damage over time effects do an additional 33% damage.

Reasoning: An offensive buff to Magma Shell would simply be a terrific change for mDK. Since the Ultimate innately buffs your defense, a buff to offense means you could use it more strategically depending on the situation. Making the Ultimate increase your DoT damage would create interesting offensive potential for mDKs who maybe want to run squishier builds: Pop the ult, cast new PBAoE Flames of Oblivion, cast Burning Talons. That would hurt. But it would hurt without being stupid OP burst. And that's precisely the type of synergy mDK needs.

5: Ultimate Generating Passive: One of the consistent comments left in DK feedback is that the class lacks sustain. I am all for Battle Roar being our primary method of sustain. That being said, I do NOT want the class to go back to Banners every 10 seconds for infinite sustain. Rather, I would like to see one of our passives be updated to grant Minor Heroism while we have a DoT on an enemy. Simple and straightforward, but I think it would go a long way.

Love all of these suggeations, especially the minor heroism one. Additionally, I always thought that the "last stand" passive in the CP tree should have been a DK passive.

Re: magma shell. An alternative buff to this skill would be to simply reduce the ultimate cost to 150 or so.

Re: burning embers. If they revert dragon Blood to a 33% missing health heal exempted from battle spirit I think the heal portion of this skill can be simply removed. Replace it with a minor debuff like defile, fracture, or some such.

Ash cloud: make this skill useful again outside of PvE DPS rotations by adding major evasion while standing in cinder storm. Keep eruption as is.

Wings need to be fixed. Too many problems to even list.

Kilandros wrote: »

Tagging @ZOS_RichLambert and @ZOS_GinaBruno as you guys have been the most responsive. Here are five suggestions--with explanations of my reasonings--I believe would make mDK competitive with the other classes while fulfilling its intended role of being a DoT-heavy class without an execute.

1: Coagulating Blood: Revert to healing for 33% of missing health, but now ignores battle spirit.

Reasoning: Dragon's Blood makes the most sense as an emergency heal that becomes more potent the closer to death the caster is. It also fulfills the role of being a sort of anti-execute for the one class which lacks an execute. If high-health builds are a concern, consider adding a flat cap to this ability so it cannot heal for more than 15k health.

2: Burning Embers: Convert the healing effect to a Heal over Time that ticks with each damage tick.

Reasoning: If Coag is made to be our burst heal, then we don't really need the burst heals from Embers. Rather, we need smaller heals to keep us topped off as Coag will be inefficient when closer to full health.

3: Flames of Oblivion: Convert this to a 15-second PBAoE that ramps up in damage every few seconds.

Reasoning: The issue with DoTs in PvP is that they are easily purged. That being said, I do NOT believe unpurgeable DoTs is the answer. Rather, PBAoE DoTs are the way to go because they can be avoided by movement, but cannot be purged. This gives mDK a method of keeping pressure on enemies while staying close to them.

4: Magma Shell: Increased duration to 15 seconds. Remove shielding effect. New effect: While active, your damage over time effects do an additional 33% damage.

Reasoning: An offensive buff to Magma Shell would simply be a terrific change for mDK. Since the Ultimate innately buffs your defense, a buff to offense means you could use it more strategically depending on the situation. Making the Ultimate increase your DoT damage would create interesting offensive potential for mDKs who maybe want to run squishier builds: Pop the ult, cast new PBAoE Flames of Oblivion, cast Burning Talons. That would hurt. But it would hurt without being stupid OP burst. And that's precisely the type of synergy mDK needs.

5: Ultimate Generating Passive: One of the consistent comments left in DK feedback is that the class lacks sustain. I am all for Battle Roar being our primary method of sustain. That being said, I do NOT want the class to go back to Banners every 10 seconds for infinite sustain. Rather, I would like to see one of our passives be updated to grant Minor Heroism while we have a DoT on an enemy. Simple and straightforward, but I think it would go a long way.

Yes
yes
yes
yes
yes


please

@Trayyacakes
Nope to both of them (dragon's blood changes) that is way too OP.
All it needs to do for both versions of dragon's blood is heal based off of Max health,Max Magicka, or Max stamina (taking into to count max health/mag for coag and max health/max stam for green dragons). It will utilize one of those resources not both and be able to heal starting at 35-40% + allow it to crit. This in it's self will give it a base heal that you know what it will be (unmodified by buffs/CP that is) and you will have the potential to get more depending on your crit or location i.e. being near a keep (PvP passive increases healing while near a keep).

Inferno aka Flames of Oblivion needs to go back to an AoE but apply 20% more DoT damage you deal but only what your DK abilities do as having everything give 20% more damage would be OP. If possible it would be nice to have minor intellect while having it slotted alongside the crit we receive or we could even get minor magicka steal instead when the target is damaged by it.

As someone say, a dk execute is useless, and a real DK don't want it, same devs.
What a magicka DK must have to be on pair to otehr classes is:
1- *DoTs that apply MAJOR DEFILE, they want magicka DK rely on DoTs to pressure an enemy, but in the current state of the game, they are useless. They get cleanse, they get OUTHEALED, this is not possible! If I put 3 dots on an enemy (and I am using 3 skill slots just to pressure 1 enemy), they must do something, but right now, they get outhealed by everything. Major Defile is what Magicka dk need, PVP will be influenced, PVE won't be touched because major defile is useless on mobs!
2- COAGULATING BLOOD still need to be reviewed, I don't know with what, but since DK already have a BAD healing, i don't get why make it worse, we already spend a lot of magicka to use basic skills, and ok a DK with bad regeneration will get a good heal, but, after i heal my self, where is my magicka? I won't be able to heal again my self for a while (YEAH I HAVE ULT AND POTS EVERY 45 SEC), so for 45 secs I won't be able to do damage and heal, i just can hope to hold block for 45 seconds.. guys and ZOS, this is how it will be the things.. You really want to force a class to run out of resources to get a heal and then don't be able to get back resources to continue the fight?This is jjust a mechanic that is good to think about it, but in practice isn't possible.
Rework coagulating dragonblood for something else (I won't ask 0 cost on a heal, because is insane and it means endless heals when on low magicka, there are many options, HoT, heal that scale on max pool (magicka or health), heal that have a basic value + a % value based on missing magicka or health, heal that cleans and ignore cyrodiil debuff. choose or make a new one but that is decent, not a troll, I DON'T WANT A COPY OF BoL).
@Woeler @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert
I doubt you will make changes in time.. but keep these advices, because is what a mDK lack.