NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I said we need PvE dps buffs.

I also said we've gotten some so far with the patch notes, and I thanked ZOS for it.

Sorry but the Mageblade buffs in 2.7 are pretty neglectable. And your argument with the 8% more damage on staffs is pretty funny due to the fact that it changes nothing in the end because everybody gets the 8% bonus.

That comment was regarding PvP.

Erynyes wrote: »

how about making the berserk buff last more than 8 sec and keep the re-apply, i think it would be good for both pve and pvp... wait scratch that, this discussion isn't about having idea, it's about forum-pvper that know it all

Are you talking about Reaper's Mark's Major Berserk, or Grim Focus' Minor Berserk? Major lasts 5s, and Minor lasts 20s. I'd be down to see Reaper's buff become more accessible. It's a staple for PvP bombing, but that's about it as far as I know. Chaining it on adds in PvE can sometimes yield a dps boost, but it's small. Otherwise I'm confused about your suggestion. Your snippy comment isn't appreciated and only adds to their toxicity.

AzuraKin wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Magblade felt more than fine to me on PTS, most people who play the game just literally have no idea what to do. The gap between skilled players and fodder is so large in ESO.

I mean strife literally only increased by 300 in cost, it used to cost under 1K.

*shrugs*

I think most players are mad at the change seeing as most of us were expecting buffs to magblade for open world pvp and are just confused on why they nerfed strife for what seems to be no reason. Magblade still has one problem in open world pvp and that's snares magblades struggle with snares and roots more than any other class. And mist form is counterproductive to magblade because all your hots stop ticking in mist form and your main defense is hots. Plus players are getting smarter, when they see you mist form they just spam ambush

hots? lol what hots? strife for 50 hps after all the mitigation/damage reduction? or mutagen that requires restro staff, is not guaranteed to land on you? nb has no real defenses.

lolwut? Mageblade is entirely designed around layering hots...


@old_mufasa I don't understand your post. They've already made good moves toward closing the mag/stam PvE dps gap, and you still provide no reasoning behind needing to alter Grim Focus to further do so.

Do you even read peoples posts? or just comment to comment?

As with all the other peoples posts on why it needs a QOL change... I have repeatedly said just as others that the current form is clunky and dated.. and you did not understand the part where I said they needed to balance all aspects of the game when it comes to stam vs magic..(something they said would happen this patch) with out some major over hauls to certain aspects of each that wont be happening with this patch.

I read everything. No one has provided a reason to overhaul Grim Focus besides "it feels bad" or "it will be easier this way." DPS can be increased elsewhere in the kit, but people are fixating on this ability for some reason. You could argue that everything in the game is "dated" at this point -- the game is old. That's nothing more than empty rhetoric. As for "clunky," it actually works smoothly if you practice with it, except I heard that doesn't function properly on console. It should be fixed there, not changed. And the recast is necessary to keep it from being OP in PvP. I'm not sure what part of that is going over people's heads.

The stam/magicka dps divide has nothing to do with Grim Focus or this thread, but I genuinely hope stam classes in general, including nightblade, receive some love to bring them into line with magicka. I also genuinely hope both variants of nightblade can be raised into line with the other classes in PvE, but I still have yet to see a solid argument for why Grim Focus, out of the whole kit, has to be fundamentally changed to achieve that end.

I guess you really do not read what's typed...

As Grim Focus issue is different from magic vs stamina issue.. and for someone who claims to know so much about it.. the fact you cant seem to differentiate the two is telling...

Example 1: the strife nerf is a direct change to the balance of our class.. and to many a change in the wrong direction. This falls under the magic vs stamina balance changes..

Example 2: is the request but many to update Grim Focus to have a more fluid feel to the skill then its current and many time buggy (on the console} system.. in like with the devs post on their current objective of this patch.. hence there change to volatile curse.. as the current system was old and clunky when dealing with only on one target spell that would do nothing if the target died before time was elapsed...

Maybe if you would actually read what others have wrote to why a update to the current system would be better then what we have and not do this childish type of argument on having each person repeat themselves you might come to understand the reasons.. but your so caught up in to arguing you can see the anything else but to argue...

Saying its clunky system.. is a ligament reason.. and stream lining it and keeping it with in current balance is in line with what the devs said there goal of this patch....

Hate to break it to you.. you're in the minority .. you can argue all you want.. but a change to Grim Focus is coming.. maybe not this patch but next one it will as the devs have stated.. so instead of arguing.. maybe come up with constructive ways of streaming lining it.

Auto recast on assassin's would result in a 4-skill rotation for NBs. Boring AF

Assassin's will
LA
Skill 1
LA
Skill 2
LA
Skill 3
LA
Will-proc
Repeat

The damage for Will is balanced for PvE around double-casting every 20 seconds (for better or worse). The double cast keeps people from using it every time it comes up. If it becomes castable every 5 second, it's going to end up taking a significant damage reduction

@old_mufasa Bugginess on console warrants bug fixes, not overarching mechanical changes.

Curse isn't clunky or buggy, things dying while the curse is on them is irrelevant for dps parses, and zos isn't changing it because of clunkiness or bugginess. They're changing it to free up global cooldowns and make the rotation easier, but all they're doing is making it echo a second explosion. A comparable change to Grim Focus to free up global cooldowns would be adding a second damage echo 8 seconds after landing a proc, NOT removing the recast entirely. I could get behind a change like that.

Yup, I realize since making this thread that I'm in the minority who still values a complex, mechanically rich, and higher skill cap game. I'm all for closing the dps gap between new and seasoned players, not NOT for diluting mechanics to do so.

So there's your suggestion (my third or fourth in the thread). Make the proc echo like 8 or 10 seconds later like Curse. That's usable in pvp but won't make a difference in balance, would straight up double the damage per global cooldown of the proc in pve, and wouldn't turn mageblade into assassin's frags machine gun sorcblades.

@Rohamad_Ali "Massive buffs" refers to pvp. Mageblade is about to become way strong next patch outside of vulnerability to snares, due to the staff changes primarily. Bombers will be crazy with lightning staves -- I've already theorycrafted a build that looks like it'll hit 24k+ destro ult ticks on decently built players -- and duelers, gankers, and open world builds will be hitting harder with fire staves. The class is already stronger than people give it credit for, and we're getting a damage buff across the board. Except for dw mageblade...their lack of attention makes me sad, but hey, ZOS will be ZOS. Also I made the title dramatic because I knew it would trigger all these people.

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@old_mufasa Bugginess on console warrants bug fixes, not overarching mechanical changes.

Curse isn't clunky or buggy, things dying while the curse is on them is irrelevant for dps parses, and zos isn't changing it because of clunkiness or bugginess. They're changing it to free up global cooldowns and make the rotation easier, but all they're doing is making it echo a second explosion. A comparable change to Grim Focus to free up global cooldowns would be adding a second damage echo 8 seconds after landing a proc, NOT removing the recast entirely. I could get behind a change like that.

Yup, I realize since making this thread that I'm in the minority who still values a complex, mechanically rich, and higher skill cap game. I'm all for closing the dps gap between new and seasoned players, not NOT for diluting mechanics to do so.

So there's your suggestion (my third or fourth in the thread). Make the proc echo like 8 or 10 seconds later like Curse. That's usable in pvp but won't make a difference in balance, would straight up double the damage per global cooldown of the proc in pve, and wouldn't turn mageblade into assassin's frags machine gun sorcblades.

@Rohamad_Ali "Massive buffs" refers to pvp. Mageblade is about to become way strong next patch outside of vulnerability to snares, due to the staff changes primarily. Bombers will be crazy with lightning staves -- I've already theorycrafted a build that looks like it'll hit 24k+ destro ult ticks on decently built players -- and duelers, gankers, and open world builds will be hitting harder with fire staves. The class is already stronger than people give it credit for, and we're getting a damage buff across the board. Except for dw mageblade...their lack of attention makes me sad, but hey, ZOS will be ZOS. Also I made the title dramatic because I knew it would trigger all these people.

I understand what you explained my friend . I just hate staves . Hate them so bad on my nightblade . Wish there was a good duel wield sword build with super fast movement speed and stealth that didn't require a bomb . I'll try to explain .

I like lotus fan , concealed weapon , double take and cloak . I like shadow image for escape . If your brilliant mind can think of a theory craft build involving those abilities in PVP for a Magblade that works , I'll never complain about Magblade ever again . No bombs .

I'm on it buddy.

Mojmir wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@old_mufasa Bugginess on console warrants bug fixes, not overarching mechanical changes.

Curse isn't clunky or buggy, things dying while the curse is on them is irrelevant for dps parses, and zos isn't changing it because of clunkiness or bugginess. They're changing it to free up global cooldowns and make the rotation easier, but all they're doing is making it echo a second explosion. A comparable change to Grim Focus to free up global cooldowns would be adding a second damage echo 8 seconds after landing a proc, NOT removing the recast entirely. I could get behind a change like that.

Yup, I realize since making this thread that I'm in the minority who still values a complex, mechanically rich, and higher skill cap game. I'm all for closing the dps gap between new and seasoned players, not NOT for diluting mechanics to do so.

So there's your suggestion (my third or fourth in the thread). Make the proc echo like 8 or 10 seconds later like Curse. That's usable in pvp but won't make a difference in balance, would straight up double the damage per global cooldown of the proc in pve, and wouldn't turn mageblade into assassin's frags machine gun sorcblades.

@Rohamad_Ali "Massive buffs" refers to pvp. Mageblade is about to become way strong next patch outside of vulnerability to snares, due to the staff changes primarily. Bombers will be crazy with lightning staves -- I've already theorycrafted a build that looks like it'll hit 24k+ destro ult ticks on decently built players -- and duelers, gankers, and open world builds will be hitting harder with fire staves. The class is already stronger than people give it credit for, and we're getting a damage buff across the board. Except for dw mageblade...their lack of attention makes me sad, but hey, ZOS will be ZOS. Also I made the title dramatic because I knew it would trigger all these people.

So instead of making it like frags you want it to be more like curse? Lol

Just the echo part. You'd still have the recast mechanic, you'd just use it less frequently. The skill would still be quite different, but yes, if we have to change Grim Focus in some way, I'd prefer this change to gutting the mechanics entirely.

thankyourat wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Auto recast on assassin's would result in a 4-skill rotation for NBs. Boring AF

Assassin's will
LA
Skill 1
LA
Skill 2
LA
Skill 3
LA
Will-proc
Repeat

The damage for Will is balanced for PvE around double-casting every 20 seconds (for better or worse). The double cast keeps people from using it every time it comes up. If it becomes castable every 5 second, it's going to end up taking a significant damage reduction

I'm not so sure it would need a damage reduction because it doesn't hit much harder than crystal frag and even if the merciless auto recast itself it would still require alot more player input than crystal frag

It would 100% need a damage reduction for PvP should such a change go through.

Kena, if you weren't so arrogant you might be worth listening to more. Not everyone plays like you do and not everyone plays on PC with low latency. Your title for this post is just silly. There are no MASSIVE buffs to mageblades, just one to all magicka classes courtesy of the destro staff changes. Though I do like the buff to Path, it's hardly massive.

Like you, I have opinions: on the nerf to strife (unnecessary, but I can live with it). I also think Grim Focus is unnecessarily clunky and unreliable - particularly on console and when in a laggy PVP server/dungeon. It needs to be changed for the benefit of all players and not left as it is because of one. Concealed weapon also needs looking at as no one uses it as an active ability. It would also be great if you could activate Shadow Image without a target, but that may be making it too easy.

@thankyourat That's a fair point.

The way I see it, sorc applies really low sustained damage pressure but high and easily applied burst damage. Mageblades apply really strong sustained damage pressure and slightly lower and more difficult to apply burst damage. Grim Focus is a major source of burst, and the extra micromanagement that it requires prevents it from being incorporated into our sustained damage rotations. This is from a PvP perspective. If we had frag, we'd be op af in my opinion.

ArgoCye wrote: »

Kena, if you weren't so arrogant you might be worth listening to more. Not everyone plays like you do and not everyone plays on PC with low latency. Your title for this post is just silly. There are no MASSIVE buffs to mageblades, just one to all magicka classes courtesy of the destro staff changes. Though I do like the buff to Path, it's hardly massive.

Like you, I have opinions: on the nerf to strife (unnecessary, but I can live with it). I also think Grim Focus is unnecessarily clunky and unreliable - particularly on console and when in a laggy PVP server/dungeon. It needs to be changed for the benefit of all players and not left as it is because of one. Concealed weapon also needs looking at as no one uses it as an active ability. It would also be great if you could activate Shadow Image without a target, but that may be making it too easy.

Meh. Doesn't change the integrity of what I'm saying. I'm a straightforward person who does in fact have a ton of experience on the class and a perspective that spans both PvP and PvE. I won't pander around people's feelings, just not in my personality, sorry.

I also 100% do not think that the game should be balanced around lag. Lag is unfortunate, but it's not a game feature. ZOS should work to remove it from the game, not balance around it. That's my take anyways. Sorry if you struggle to use abilities like GF because of lag.

EDIT: And there were massive buffs to mageblades in PvP. PvE needs some love still. What do you think of the suggestion I made a bit higher up in the comments?

thankyourat wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@thankyourat That's a fair point.

The way I see it, sorc applies really low sustained damage pressure but high and easily applied burst damage. Mageblades apply really strong sustained damage pressure and slightly lower and more difficult to apply burst damage. Grim Focus is a major source of burst, and the extra micromanagement that it requires prevents it from being incorporated into our sustained damage rotations. This is from a PvP perspective. If we had frag, we'd be op af in my opinion.

ArgoCye wrote: »

Kena, if you weren't so arrogant you might be worth listening to more. Not everyone plays like you do and not everyone plays on PC with low latency. Your title for this post is just silly. There are no MASSIVE buffs to mageblades, just one to all magicka classes courtesy of the destro staff changes. Though I do like the buff to Path, it's hardly massive.

Like you, I have opinions: on the nerf to strife (unnecessary, but I can live with it). I also think Grim Focus is unnecessarily clunky and unreliable - particularly on console and when in a laggy PVP server/dungeon. It needs to be changed for the benefit of all players and not left as it is because of one. Concealed weapon also needs looking at as no one uses it as an active ability. It would also be great if you could activate Shadow Image without a target, but that may be making it too easy.

Meh. Doesn't change the integrity of what I'm saying. I'm a straightforward person who does in fact have a ton of experience on the class and a perspective that spans both PvP and PvE. I won't pander around people's feelings, just not in my personality, sorry.

I also 100% do not think that the game should be balanced around lag. Lag is unfortunate, but it's not a game feature. ZOS should work to remove it from the game, not balance around it. That's my take anyways. Sorry if you struggle to use abilities like GF because of lag.

EDIT: And there were massive buffs to mageblades in PvP. PvE needs some love still. What do you think of the suggestion I made a bit higher up in the comments?

I agree I feel it would be op but honestly I feel like crystal frag is op lol. I think alot of our pressure is actually coming from skoria without it magblade pressure is nothing special it's pretty much just like any other destro build on another class. The way I'm thinking of it is On a magblade build using skoria an auto recast merciless would be op but on a build not using skoria it would be pretty balanced. Honestly I think as a whole the magblade community is starting to rely on skoria kind of like when proxy det was around

Skoria is a lot of power. Speaking from personal experience, I've never felt reliant on it or had a problem killing without it, but I could see people growing accustomed to having that extra burst. I've replaced a piece with 1pc Kena in many duels after people complained about Skoria, and I use Pirate Skeleton or Bloodspawn more often in open world. I'm actually using 2pc Kena on my PvP specs now, testing for next patch. Not impressed with that, though.

How would you compare mageblade pressure to other classes when all are playing without procs? In my opinion it's still pretty high. I wouldn't call mageblade reliant on the set, but I definitely see your point.

Add a DoT to Grim Focus and it's morphs; If I have to cast it twice, I want 2 damaging effects out of it. In a PvP setting, Grim Focus is used mostly as the killing blow so really the DoT is irrelevant but for PvE, that DoT will really help out tremendously.

Increase the healing component of Strife from 25% to 30%. I'll survive the cost increase if I'm given SOMETHING to compensate for it.

Change Debilitate morph of Cripple to a Stamina morph that does Disease Damage. Seriously, this needs to be a thing.

Make Power Extraction grant empower. No one really uses Power Extraction when Steel Tornado outperforms it in every way and it wouldn't change a thing in PvP because Stamblade already gets Empowered by Ambush so really it would be more of a PvE change to give Stamblade a nice alternative from Spin to Win in the AoE department.

Have Concealed Weapon grant an increase in spell crit chance/damage just for slotting it.

I like the changes to Path but I would like to see some sort of extra utility added to Twisting because it still doesn't do high enough damage to compare to other similar class based skills. Minor Breech, a snare, or even just allowing allies to get the Major Expedition buff from it would at least be something.

Brrrofski wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Magblade felt more than fine to me on PTS, most people who play the game just literally have no idea what to do. The gap between skilled players and fodder is so large in ESO.

I mean strife literally only increased by 300 in cost, it used to cost under 1K.

*shrugs*

The point is, why nerf it? Mageblade is behind others classes, so they nerf it? At the time, the path buff wasn't there. That buff still doesn't help mageblades in PvP. So class skill wise, they were still nerfed. Yes inferno got buffed, but that isn't a magica NB only thing. Sorcs, who are better for PvP mostly, got that too.

If the cloak fix is good it would mean good things for Magblade open world. I don't really feel as if Magblade is behind other classes in PvP, and if they actually are not by very much at all. I use refreshing path sometimes in PvP and it's really strong with the right build.

I can see new players having a hard time managing the merciless resolve proc, I don't think it should recast itself but they could probably increase the length the buff lasts a little. But they did say they had more notes incoming so maybe they have more Magblade changes planned that will paint a better picture as to why they touched strife.

Yeh, I think merciless is fine as it is. I find the mechanic fine. But as I've mentioned, it's bugged on Xbox. Makes the proc noise but doesn't actually proc.

But compare a destro resto NB to a sorc. Sorc has better survivability due to using two shields (although NB does work better with heavy armor), better mobility with streak (cloak is very situational when it does work) and far better burst.

Curse, crushing shock weave, endless fury and procced frag can nuke a lot of people in like 5 seconds. On a NB you're putting on cripple, then weaving swlow soul 4 times before your nuke. Which, a lot of good players know is coming. So you need to cc before firing. Agony can break on a cripple dot so you need to fear, which means getting close.

Honestly, sustain is the only thing a NB has going for it over a sorc. Class ultimates are better for PvP, but destro ult is far superior on most situations anyway. Fear is a better cc then a sorc has, but does require more risk.

Shadow Image + Cloak >>>>>>>>> Streak

How does cloak help you escape from aoes and roots and snares? It doesn't. On stamblade it's awesome. Kiting around then using it. On a mageblade it just isn't great.

Image is nice. But you can only use it once to create distance. Then you need to be within 28 metres again.

By itself cloak doesn't do much, in conjunction with shadow image however, you can kite people much better than a sorc can.

There is no huge buff for mBlade DPS (even path is not a huge buff, it is powerfull but not for dps, grasp/blackade are better). However, in 2.7 they will be more sustain in fight than the others class (Aloha magicksteal), they will be the only class who can take Kena thx to their siphonning (with stam sorc/stamblade maybe).

LeifErickson wrote: »

Also, I don't know where this mdks are gods at dueling came from, but I don't agree. I don't think mdks are very good at dueling at all.

Its a stupid misconception.

Ishammael wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Also, I don't know where this mdks are gods at dueling came from, but I don't agree. I don't think mdks are very good at dueling at all.

Its a stupid misconception.

It really isn't. Magdk is probably the best dueling class in the game. They just have too much crowd control and battle roar will pretty much give them a new fight every time they cast a ultimate. Plus all the dots they stack on you really start to add up and cost you resources to relieve the pressure. Magdk is definitely top tier in dueling, dks in general are top tier