Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Majic nightblade is good at two things , healing and escaping . CC and speed . Damage is abysmal compared to stamina side nightblade . These "buffs" to magic nightblade , cloak getting repaired ... Not a buff , a fix . Path , the least used ability in PVP good only for tagging targets , a minor speed buff and mostly only good healing with a transmutation set is hardly note worthy .

I've heard a lot of talk about how good op is at Majic nightblade but have never seen video or ran into them in PVP . I would like to see op in PVP or duels showing off said skill . To this day I can count on one hand the great PVP Magblades and the reason they are great has more to do with access to top line gear more then anything . A couple of them are great even with subpar sets but they all have one thing in common . They work their butts off to master rotations and struggle at fights after the element of surprise is over . They have to be great escape artists .

So how about it op ? In my years of playing it's the hardest class to manage so will you show off your skill ?

I am Kena. The below videos showcase some PvP gameplay. I've nearly perfected dueling, 1vX, ganking, bombing, tanking, healing...just about every play style on mageblade in PvP. My /played is over 184 days on FRIGHT alone. As for PvE, I hit 45k dps on Rakkhat waaaay before One Tamriel in purple TBS and Nerien'eth by using those dots and casting a Merciless proc after every 3 other abilities, then shifting it out of the rotation in favor of Impale spam during execute (keeping dots until boss death would occur before their durations would end).

I am truly trying to take an objective perspective on this class because I want the class to be healthy across the scope of the game. But I will not yield to "it'll be easier this way." Would you have another player comment here in my place?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_ApiLz3Q6o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRWX9iG-_Ms

Mojmir wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Coming from a long-time PvE and PvP mageblade with vMoL completed forever ago, parsing 45k dps with purple gear and using Refreshing Path at the time, and nearly 183 days /played on my main character.

People are whining way too much right now, fixated on the Strife cost increase and overlooking so many wonderful changes. So far you've given us attempted QoL fixes on cloak and shade for PvP, dps buffs to path for PvE, slight changes to Manifestation of Terror (more still needed), and 8% bonus single target or aoe damage dealt by wielding a fire or lightning staff.

I have noticed that staff change has been overlooked by all the mageblade whining, but it's the single biggest change for the class this patch.

Yes, the other classes will benefit from it as well, but it's a huge help to us.

Thank you specifically for not fundamentally changing Grim Focus's casting mechanics like this vocal minority is calling for, but instead tuning up dps through Path. Wise move.

I see the big picture here, from an informed and experienced perspective. Strife was cheap. The change leaves me scratching my head, but it will be inconsequential in the end. The rest of these changes have been well-placed. I hope you keep up the positive effort.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Now for a damage threshold before the Agony cc breaks so that dots don't immediately break it, an aoe PvP oriented synergy for Consuming Darkness, and further reworks to Manifestation of Terror and Soul Siphon.

This makes no sense.

Staff buffs do not benefit Mablades any more than they do Magsorcs or Magplars or MagDKs. The Major Force nerf hurts NBs more than it does Sorcs or DKs.

Providing a buff to all Magicka users via staff changes may benefit Magblades but it does not buff them in relation to other Magicka builds. Magblade still remains the worst Magicka DPS class in PvE. No one brings Nightblades raiding and that isn't going to change with this patch.

And it doesn't look to me like a "vocal minority" calling for Grim Focus changes. In fact, I see the majority of people commenting on NB threads agreeing that the ability could use some fresh thinking, including quite a few well-known end-gamers. Same story on Reddit and other ESO communities. I suspect that you refer to it as a "vocal minority" because you want to marginalize opinions that don't align with your own.

Looks to me like you're making a dog and pony show of kissing ZOS's ass in order to justify your contrarian opinions. You are the vocal minority, not the other way 'round.

And then you've got the nerve to try to *** on @Gilliamtherogue and his contributions to the community. Oy vey. This is a troll shitpost if I've ever seen one.

Feel free to offer a solid counterargument to my points instead of more fluff. Thanks.

Fact is no one has provided a logical reason to why Grim Focus in particular needs to be fundamentally altered instead of having higher dps parse values brought into the kit elsewhere.

And it's true that Gil is a prominent PvEer because he crunches numbers exceptionally well, pulls high dps with his builds, and points the rest of the PvE community in the right direction to achieve min/maxed dps with all classes. That is entirely unrelated to class combat mechanics related to PvP.

That is an objective fact. Cheers.

Reasons to remove the recast in Grim Focus to have unlimited use during the duration:

-) Combat in both pve and pvp will be working smoother as you free up time
-) The skill is extremely underperforming in pve as the damage gets effictively cut in half during recast
-) In pvp against any competent player your burst only comes from timing your Grim Focus with an ult, this change would put more pressure on your opponent till your ult is back up.
-) It does nothing except do damage thats easier to predict and dodge than even frag which already is *** obvious. For that it already has harder condition than any other burst skills around so this change wouldnt overbuff.

I´d argue that the uniqueness comes from the way its proccd not from the recast so this wouldnt be "fundamentally altering" it.

My proposition would be refresh the bow proc after shooting for the whole duration and instead make it shoot after 5 light attacks to make it not possible to cast it more often. The only thing that would change is free up one global for doing something else in pvp and boost dps in pve without hurting any side.

It would be a frag with a 25% proc chance, normalizing performance for rng for the sake of argument.

The 4 light attack model is identical to frag, taking rnb out of the equation. The proc would fire as every fourth ability.

You're literally saying you want it to be easier and less unique. Combat doesn't need to have freed up time. Spending time on Grim Focus is important. It doesn't need to be less predictable in PvP. It hits like a truck. We should have to work to make it land. And mageblade already has a ton of sustained pressure. The moment of relieved pressure when recasting this is important.

Just my perspective on it. If you people want to dumb down this class, then *** it, I give up. Make the game a *** carebear RP mmo. I don't care anymore. Sorry for enjoying class diversity and mechanical challenge.

So much for "calmly waiting"? Lol

I have been.

I'm just fed up with people making such slack arguments. "It'll be easier this way" is such a lazy, copout reason to make such a drastic change to the class. No seasoned mageblade would support these changes unless the ONLY thing they care about is the number at the end of their PvE parse.

When someone says Grim Focus is "clunky," I know they're inexperienced at mageblade.

When someone says the recast is "unnecessary" or doesn't influence the play style heavily, I know they don't PvP on mageblade.

When someone says such a change is good because it'll make the skill easier to use, like frags, I know they 1) don't care about class diversity, and 2) don't care about skill cap or practicing to improve.

Are those people qualified to make balance decisions? Honest question.

Doesn't matter, you want argument and your stuck in your build. Ive run magblade for over 2.5 years. Your just showing how reliant you are too it's current use,hooray you mastered one skill move.meanwhile, it's sluggish (is that better than clunky?) Offer your own counter argument as a solution,so everyone else can meet you halfway.that's how discussions work,right now your just looking to argue.

I've thoroughly explored every possible build and play style for mageblade, and I've defined bombing, ganking, dueling, 1vX, healing, and tanking metas for the class for over a year. I'm not stuck anywhere, thanks, and I'll adapt to and benefit from any buff or QoL change to the class as well as anybody.

If I'm here arguing to not make Grim Focus easier to use, I'm acting directly against my own benefit.

I've already said to buff path, shade, and agony. I've provided solutions. YOU don't want to hear that though. YOU are fixated on Grim Focus.

(YOU plural, but also containing you now.)

pieratsos wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Coming from a long-time PvE and PvP mageblade with vMoL completed forever ago, parsing 45k dps with purple gear and using Refreshing Path at the time, and nearly 183 days /played on my main character.

People are whining way too much right now, fixated on the Strife cost increase and overlooking so many wonderful changes. So far you've given us attempted QoL fixes on cloak and shade for PvP, dps buffs to path for PvE, slight changes to Manifestation of Terror (more still needed), and 8% bonus single target or aoe damage dealt by wielding a fire or lightning staff.

I have noticed that staff change has been overlooked by all the mageblade whining, but it's the single biggest change for the class this patch.

Yes, the other classes will benefit from it as well, but it's a huge help to us.

Thank you specifically for not fundamentally changing Grim Focus's casting mechanics like this vocal minority is calling for, but instead tuning up dps through Path. Wise move.

I see the big picture here, from an informed and experienced perspective. Strife was cheap. The change leaves me scratching my head, but it will be inconsequential in the end. The rest of these changes have been well-placed. I hope you keep up the positive effort.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Now for a damage threshold before the Agony cc breaks so that dots don't immediately break it, an aoe PvP oriented synergy for Consuming Darkness, and further reworks to Manifestation of Terror and Soul Siphon.

This makes no sense.

Staff buffs do not benefit Mablades any more than they do Magsorcs or Magplars or MagDKs. The Major Force nerf hurts NBs more than it does Sorcs or DKs.

Providing a buff to all Magicka users via staff changes may benefit Magblades but it does not buff them in relation to other Magicka builds. Magblade still remains the worst Magicka DPS class in PvE. No one brings Nightblades raiding and that isn't going to change with this patch.

And it doesn't look to me like a "vocal minority" calling for Grim Focus changes. In fact, I see the majority of people commenting on NB threads agreeing that the ability could use some fresh thinking, including quite a few well-known end-gamers. Same story on Reddit and other ESO communities. I suspect that you refer to it as a "vocal minority" because you want to marginalize opinions that don't align with your own.

Looks to me like you're making a dog and pony show of kissing ZOS's ass in order to justify your contrarian opinions. You are the vocal minority, not the other way 'round.

And then you've got the nerve to try to *** on @Gilliamtherogue and his contributions to the community. Oy vey. This is a troll shitpost if I've ever seen one.

Feel free to offer a solid counterargument to my points instead of more fluff. Thanks.

Fact is no one has provided a logical reason to why Grim Focus in particular needs to be fundamentally altered instead of having higher dps parse values brought into the kit elsewhere.

And it's true that Gil is a prominent PvEer because he crunches numbers exceptionally well, pulls high dps with his builds, and points the rest of the PvE community in the right direction to achieve min/maxed dps with all classes. That is entirely unrelated to class combat mechanics related to PvP.

That is an objective fact. Cheers.

Making the proc reset after the cast will not change much in PVP. You rarely get more than one proc in 20 seconds in PVP when u are pressured anw. The only thing that will change is when u are the one putting constant pressure and its sort of like PVE. So why the hell does my own skill have to force me to make useless casts and give my oponents time to recover when im outplaying them? It should be rewarding me in those cases. Not punishing me.

Also making the proc reset after the cast does not degrade the skill by any means. The key mechanics of the skill ISNT THE EXTRA CAST. That skill is defined by the way u proc it cause it requires very good weaving (which is much harder in cyro cause of the lag and how buggy weaving swallow soul is) and the way you land it cause its pure dmg, has no cc attached to it and has too many counters. Thats how u know if the player using the skill is good or not. Those mechanics are still intact. You still have to weave to proc it and you still have to get it into a combo with a cc and ult/execute otherwise its not gonna do jack sh*t by its own no matter how many times u shoot it in 20 seconds.

The fact is that all you do is basically advocating not to change the skill because you dont want to degrade it and make the class easier but the fact is that your own suggestions are those that degrade the skill and make the class easier because by buffing the dmg of the class you are making merciless less useful. Right now merciless is a must for every magblade and it requires good weaving and good timing on ur combos to make it work. If you buff the crap out of every other skill u are making merciless less useful and therefore degrading the skill and making the class much easier.

Thank you for an intelligent and thought out response. We differ on perspective. I'll try to elaborate my take on these subjects.

Making the skill reset on proc will turn mageblades into Assassin's Will machine guns. They're careful with their procs right now because of the recast. That is why you only see about one proc per 10 seconds. Make this change, and you'll have 15k Assassin's Wills every 4 abilities like clockwork with no "should I shoot it? Will I be punished if I miss" thought, like frag.

You don't need Merciless to build tempo and control and put an opponent on the defensive. However you often do need it to kill them. Missing that kill, or missing your shot entirely, should punish you. Do not mistake Merciless as part of mageblades' sustained pressure. That shot is carefully reserved for big burst moments -- spikes in the fight, followed by a slight reprieve. Making the proposed change to Merciless would give us no reason not to shoot it off every four abilities, turning it into a sustained pressure tool. And since it's more reliable than frag (I mean that we know when it'll be up next), we wouldn't worry about popping one off for simple damage. We could literally spam 4 light attacks in less than two seconds, and have it up again.

I consider weaving to be equal to sorcs having to cast abilities to proc frag because you always should be weaving abilities. Therefore I consider the methods of proccing the abilities to be irrelevant in practice. I consider the frequency with which they proc to be important -- and I've already explained that they proc with the same frequency when normalized for rng. The difference between the abilities is damage, cc, and the fact that Grim Focus requires a recast. That's really it when in combat attacking someone.

I'm all for buffing Grim Focus to make it core in PvE rotations. I'd love to see that. I won't be pleased with subtracting mechanics from the ability and dumbing it down, though. That's all. I don't see why that's so hard to relate to.

Am curious to hear your response. I hope I articulated these thoughts well enough to understand.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Majic nightblade is good at two things , healing and escaping . CC and speed . Damage is abysmal compared to stamina side nightblade . These "buffs" to magic nightblade , cloak getting repaired ... Not a buff , a fix . Path , the least used ability in PVP good only for tagging targets , a minor speed buff and mostly only good healing with a transmutation set is hardly note worthy .

I've heard a lot of talk about how good op is at Majic nightblade but have never seen video or ran into them in PVP . I would like to see op in PVP or duels showing off said skill . To this day I can count on one hand the great PVP Magblades and the reason they are great has more to do with access to top line gear more then anything . A couple of them are great even with subpar sets but they all have one thing in common . They work their butts off to master rotations and struggle at fights after the element of surprise is over . They have to be great escape artists .

So how about it op ? In my years of playing it's the hardest class to manage so will you show off your skill ?

I am Kena. The below videos showcase some PvP gameplay. I've nearly perfected dueling, 1vX, ganking, bombing, tanking, healing...just about every play style on mageblade in PvP. My /played is over 184 days on FRIGHT alone. As for PvE, I hit 45k dps on Rakkhat waaaay before One Tamriel in purple TBS and Nerien'eth by using those dots and casting a Merciless proc after every 3 other abilities, then shifting it out of the rotation in favor of Impale spam during execute (keeping dots until boss death would occur before their durations would end).

I am truly trying to take an objective perspective on this class because I want the class to be healthy across the scope of the game. But I will not yield to "it'll be easier this way." Would you have another player comment here in my place?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_ApiLz3Q6o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRWX9iG-_Ms

Damn . Your one of the people on my one hand . I'll be back after I get this foot out of mouth ...

You need to give me lessons so I understand how you do the things you do . I think I've topped out on solo learning .

I work really hard on my videos to try and help people learn the class. It's way more capable than most players seem to think right now.. Hit me up in game or in YouTube comments with questions, and I always answer. I watch notifications and PMs.

I am going to do that because you definitely know more then me with this . Can we agree this class is hardest learning curve ? I think it is and this is so frustrating for non min / max players . It is not casual friendly in my humble opinion .

I can see why you are wanting to keep it this way . I would too if I worked hard and got that successful with it .

Yes you are one of those that can make Majic out of mud gear sets ... Figures it had to be one of the top 3 Magblades of all time I decide to debate . Damnit . Damnit damnit damnit ! I'm going to eat a gallon of Icecream and making myself feel better .

xblackroxe wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Coming from a long-time PvE and PvP mageblade with vMoL completed forever ago, parsing 45k dps with purple gear and using Refreshing Path at the time, and nearly 183 days /played on my main character.

People are whining way too much right now, fixated on the Strife cost increase and overlooking so many wonderful changes. So far you've given us attempted QoL fixes on cloak and shade for PvP, dps buffs to path for PvE, slight changes to Manifestation of Terror (more still needed), and 8% bonus single target or aoe damage dealt by wielding a fire or lightning staff.

I have noticed that staff change has been overlooked by all the mageblade whining, but it's the single biggest change for the class this patch.

Yes, the other classes will benefit from it as well, but it's a huge help to us.

Thank you specifically for not fundamentally changing Grim Focus's casting mechanics like this vocal minority is calling for, but instead tuning up dps through Path. Wise move.

I see the big picture here, from an informed and experienced perspective. Strife was cheap. The change leaves me scratching my head, but it will be inconsequential in the end. The rest of these changes have been well-placed. I hope you keep up the positive effort.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Now for a damage threshold before the Agony cc breaks so that dots don't immediately break it, an aoe PvP oriented synergy for Consuming Darkness, and further reworks to Manifestation of Terror and Soul Siphon.

This makes no sense.

Staff buffs do not benefit Mablades any more than they do Magsorcs or Magplars or MagDKs. The Major Force nerf hurts NBs more than it does Sorcs or DKs.

Providing a buff to all Magicka users via staff changes may benefit Magblades but it does not buff them in relation to other Magicka builds. Magblade still remains the worst Magicka DPS class in PvE. No one brings Nightblades raiding and that isn't going to change with this patch.

And it doesn't look to me like a "vocal minority" calling for Grim Focus changes. In fact, I see the majority of people commenting on NB threads agreeing that the ability could use some fresh thinking, including quite a few well-known end-gamers. Same story on Reddit and other ESO communities. I suspect that you refer to it as a "vocal minority" because you want to marginalize opinions that don't align with your own.

Looks to me like you're making a dog and pony show of kissing ZOS's ass in order to justify your contrarian opinions. You are the vocal minority, not the other way 'round.

And then you've got the nerve to try to *** on @Gilliamtherogue and his contributions to the community. Oy vey. This is a troll shitpost if I've ever seen one.

Feel free to offer a solid counterargument to my points instead of more fluff. Thanks.

Fact is no one has provided a logical reason to why Grim Focus in particular needs to be fundamentally altered instead of having higher dps parse values brought into the kit elsewhere.

And it's true that Gil is a prominent PvEer because he crunches numbers exceptionally well, pulls high dps with his builds, and points the rest of the PvE community in the right direction to achieve min/maxed dps with all classes. That is entirely unrelated to class combat mechanics related to PvP.

That is an objective fact. Cheers.

Reasons to remove the recast in Grim Focus to have unlimited use during the duration:

-) Combat in both pve and pvp will be working smoother as you free up time
-) The skill is extremely underperforming in pve as the damage gets effictively cut in half during recast
-) In pvp against any competent player your burst only comes from timing your Grim Focus with an ult, this change would put more pressure on your opponent till your ult is back up.
-) It does nothing except do damage thats easier to predict and dodge than even frag which already is *** obvious. For that it already has harder condition than any other burst skills around so this change wouldnt overbuff.

I´d argue that the uniqueness comes from the way its proccd not from the recast so this wouldnt be "fundamentally altering" it.

My proposition would be refresh the bow proc after shooting for the whole duration and instead make it shoot after 5 light attacks to make it not possible to cast it more often. The only thing that would change is free up one global for doing something else in pvp and boost dps in pve without hurting any side.

It would be a frag with a 25% proc chance, normalizing performance for rng for the sake of argument.

The 4 light attack model is identical to frag, taking rnb out of the equation. The proc would fire as every fourth ability.

You're literally saying you want it to be easier and less unique. Combat doesn't need to have freed up time. Spending time on Grim Focus is important. It doesn't need to be less predictable in PvP. It hits like a truck. We should have to work to make it land. And mageblade already has a ton of sustained pressure. The moment of relieved pressure when recasting this is important.

Just my perspective on it. If you people want to dumb down this class, then *** it, I give up. Make the game a *** carebear RP mmo. I don't care anymore. Sorry for enjoying class diversity and mechanical challenge.

LoL K.

You asked for reasons I gave you 4. If you can´t live with that hf.

Sorry I broke your argument down so easily?

Okay.

As you love to compare Grim Focus with Frags.

Now Grim Focus is a Frag with 20% "proc chance" ~20% more damage, no stun, and needs an extra cast to even work once.
After the change its a frag with 20% "proc chanc" ~20% more damage, no stun and needs to be cast an additional time ever 20 sec.

Being unique doesn´t mean its good. Obsidian shard is also unique (ranged knockdown with heal) and still utter ***.
Focus is too clunky for pve and does deserve a change for pvp too simple as that.

You asked for reasons, you got them. You made a point why it shouldn´t get changed, you got reasons why that is bs.
Give better arguments other than I want it to be unique then lets talk again.

It's not a 20% proc chance frag. Pay attention closely.

After the change, Grim Focus will proc after 4 light attacks.
Frag procs after 3 ability casts.
How many ability casts are contained between 4 light attack weaves?
3.
Grim Focus proc is your 4th ability cast if you shoot it after that 4th light attack weave, right as it procs.
And frag is your 4th ability cast on average if it procs on every 3rd ability cast, following its proc chance.

If the proposed change goes through, the play patterns in practice of both abilities will be identical. Frag will just deal slightly less damage and apply a cc.

And in PvP, Obsidian Shard is actually pretty good now. One of my guildies has hit 9k heals with the heal morph as a Dark Elf with an average PvP build (not stacking bonus healing). Another routinely nukes the crap out of people with the damage morph. That ability was buffed somewhat recently. You should actually test it before writing it off as bad based on stigma from before the buffs.

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Majic nightblade is good at two things , healing and escaping . CC and speed . Damage is abysmal compared to stamina side nightblade . These "buffs" to magic nightblade , cloak getting repaired ... Not a buff , a fix . Path , the least used ability in PVP good only for tagging targets , a minor speed buff and mostly only good healing with a transmutation set is hardly note worthy .

I've heard a lot of talk about how good op is at Majic nightblade but have never seen video or ran into them in PVP . I would like to see op in PVP or duels showing off said skill . To this day I can count on one hand the great PVP Magblades and the reason they are great has more to do with access to top line gear more then anything . A couple of them are great even with subpar sets but they all have one thing in common . They work their butts off to master rotations and struggle at fights after the element of surprise is over . They have to be great escape artists .

So how about it op ? In my years of playing it's the hardest class to manage so will you show off your skill ?

I am Kena. The below videos showcase some PvP gameplay. I've nearly perfected dueling, 1vX, ganking, bombing, tanking, healing...just about every play style on mageblade in PvP. My /played is over 184 days on FRIGHT alone. As for PvE, I hit 45k dps on Rakkhat waaaay before One Tamriel in purple TBS and Nerien'eth by using those dots and casting a Merciless proc after every 3 other abilities, then shifting it out of the rotation in favor of Impale spam during execute (keeping dots until boss death would occur before their durations would end).

I am truly trying to take an objective perspective on this class because I want the class to be healthy across the scope of the game. But I will not yield to "it'll be easier this way." Would you have another player comment here in my place?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_ApiLz3Q6o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRWX9iG-_Ms

Damn . Your one of the people on my one hand . I'll be back after I get this foot out of mouth ...

You need to give me lessons so I understand how you do the things you do . I think I've topped out on solo learning .

I work really hard on my videos to try and help people learn the class. It's way more capable than most players seem to think right now.. Hit me up in game or in YouTube comments with questions, and I always answer. I watch notifications and PMs.

I am going to do that because you definitely know more then me with this . Can we agree this class is hardest learning curve ? I think it is and this is so frustrating for non min / max players . It is not casual friendly in my humble opinion .

I can see why you are wanting to keep it this way . I would too if I worked hard and got that successful with it .

It is, and I like that.

But it's not an insurmountable learning curve. That's what I like about it. It's entirely doable and rewarding when learned and practiced.

I'm for enhancing dynamic and rewarding mechanics in all classes. For example, I am absolutely ecstatic about the new Curse change -- the one where we keep the 3.5s delay but have another echo at 8.5s after cast. The fact that the delay between the first explosion and the echo is longer than the delay between the cast and the first explosion makes for some really strong mind games with the opponent, and gives time for casting shields and prepping another combo before the echo goes off. That is a really strong new mechanic, and I'm looking forward to using it.

That curse change was difficult to get use to on test center for me. I was use to blasting dps on Sorc and then going defense if the target wasn't down while regenerating . It completely borked up my line of thinking .

Yes, it creates a more complex line of thinking! I'm excited for it. You can still play the same way, but now the new echo gives you options. The fact that you have 5 seconds between the first explosion and its echo gives time for a moment of defense and then preparing the next combo, and it leaves the inattentive enemy guessing when the curse will go off again. We'll have to make decisions of whether to recast curse to get an explosion 1.5s sooner, or to let the echo go through. And our opponents will have to pay attention to when we do or don't cast curse to refresh it, and time their defense accordingly.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Majic nightblade is good at two things , healing and escaping . CC and speed . Damage is abysmal compared to stamina side nightblade . These "buffs" to magic nightblade , cloak getting repaired ... Not a buff , a fix . Path , the least used ability in PVP good only for tagging targets , a minor speed buff and mostly only good healing with a transmutation set is hardly note worthy .

I've heard a lot of talk about how good op is at Majic nightblade but have never seen video or ran into them in PVP . I would like to see op in PVP or duels showing off said skill . To this day I can count on one hand the great PVP Magblades and the reason they are great has more to do with access to top line gear more then anything . A couple of them are great even with subpar sets but they all have one thing in common . They work their butts off to master rotations and struggle at fights after the element of surprise is over . They have to be great escape artists .

So how about it op ? In my years of playing it's the hardest class to manage so will you show off your skill ?

I am Kena. The below videos showcase some PvP gameplay. I've nearly perfected dueling, 1vX, ganking, bombing, tanking, healing...just about every play style on mageblade in PvP. My /played is over 184 days on FRIGHT alone. As for PvE, I hit 45k dps on Rakkhat waaaay before One Tamriel in purple TBS and Nerien'eth by using those dots and casting a Merciless proc after every 3 other abilities, then shifting it out of the rotation in favor of Impale spam during execute (keeping dots until boss death would occur before their durations would end).

I am truly trying to take an objective perspective on this class because I want the class to be healthy across the scope of the game. But I will not yield to "it'll be easier this way." Would you have another player comment here in my place?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_ApiLz3Q6o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRWX9iG-_Ms

Damn . Your one of the people on my one hand . I'll be back after I get this foot out of mouth ...

You need to give me lessons so I understand how you do the things you do . I think I've topped out on solo learning .

I work really hard on my videos to try and help people learn the class. It's way more capable than most players seem to think right now.. Hit me up in game or in YouTube comments with questions, and I always answer. I watch notifications and PMs.

I am going to do that because you definitely know more then me with this . Can we agree this class is hardest learning curve ? I think it is and this is so frustrating for non min / max players . It is not casual friendly in my humble opinion .

I can see why you are wanting to keep it this way . I would too if I worked hard and got that successful with it .

It is, and I like that.

But it's not an insurmountable learning curve. That's what I like about it. It's entirely doable and rewarding when learned and practiced.

I'm for enhancing dynamic and rewarding mechanics in all classes. For example, I am absolutely ecstatic about the new Curse change -- the one where we keep the 3.5s delay but have another echo at 8.5s after cast. The fact that the delay between the first explosion and the echo is longer than the delay between the cast and the first explosion makes for some really strong mind games with the opponent, and gives time for casting shields and prepping another combo before the echo goes off. That is a really strong new mechanic, and I'm looking forward to using it.

That curse change was difficult to get use to on test center for me. I was use to blasting dps on Sorc and then going defense if the target wasn't down while regenerating . It completely borked up my line of thinking .

Yes, it creates a more complex line of thinking! I'm excited for it. You can still play the same way, but now the new echo gives you options. The fact that you have 5 seconds between the first explosion and its echo gives time for a moment of defense and then preparing the next combo, and it leaves the inattentive enemy guessing when the curse will go off again. We'll have to make decisions of whether to recast curse to get an explosion 1.5s sooner, or to let the echo go through. And our opponents will have to pay attention to when we do or don't cast curse to refresh it, and time their defense accordingly.

I suppose if players are really good at managing those resources they can time those dps bursts around the echo and still maintain pressure . It will be an interesting update for certain . Guess it's time to change the line of thinking anyways as its coming soon .

I've watched many of your nightblade videos and you work hard to maintain dps like the rest of us . You don't ever get jealous of stamina one shot gankered builds ?

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Coming from a long-time PvE and PvP mageblade with vMoL completed forever ago, parsing 45k dps with purple gear and using Refreshing Path at the time, and nearly 183 days /played on my main character.

People are whining way too much right now, fixated on the Strife cost increase and overlooking so many wonderful changes. So far you've given us attempted QoL fixes on cloak and shade for PvP, dps buffs to path for PvE, slight changes to Manifestation of Terror (more still needed), and 8% bonus single target or aoe damage dealt by wielding a fire or lightning staff.

I have noticed that staff change has been overlooked by all the mageblade whining, but it's the single biggest change for the class this patch.

Yes, the other classes will benefit from it as well, but it's a huge help to us.

Thank you specifically for not fundamentally changing Grim Focus's casting mechanics like this vocal minority is calling for, but instead tuning up dps through Path. Wise move.

I see the big picture here, from an informed and experienced perspective. Strife was cheap. The change leaves me scratching my head, but it will be inconsequential in the end. The rest of these changes have been well-placed. I hope you keep up the positive effort.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Now for a damage threshold before the Agony cc breaks so that dots don't immediately break it, an aoe PvP oriented synergy for Consuming Darkness, and further reworks to Manifestation of Terror and Soul Siphon.

This makes no sense.

Staff buffs do not benefit Mablades any more than they do Magsorcs or Magplars or MagDKs. The Major Force nerf hurts NBs more than it does Sorcs or DKs.

Providing a buff to all Magicka users via staff changes may benefit Magblades but it does not buff them in relation to other Magicka builds. Magblade still remains the worst Magicka DPS class in PvE. No one brings Nightblades raiding and that isn't going to change with this patch.

And it doesn't look to me like a "vocal minority" calling for Grim Focus changes. In fact, I see the majority of people commenting on NB threads agreeing that the ability could use some fresh thinking, including quite a few well-known end-gamers. Same story on Reddit and other ESO communities. I suspect that you refer to it as a "vocal minority" because you want to marginalize opinions that don't align with your own.

Looks to me like you're making a dog and pony show of kissing ZOS's ass in order to justify your contrarian opinions. You are the vocal minority, not the other way 'round.

And then you've got the nerve to try to *** on @Gilliamtherogue and his contributions to the community. Oy vey. This is a troll shitpost if I've ever seen one.

Feel free to offer a solid counterargument to my points instead of more fluff. Thanks.

Fact is no one has provided a logical reason to why Grim Focus in particular needs to be fundamentally altered instead of having higher dps parse values brought into the kit elsewhere.

And it's true that Gil is a prominent PvEer because he crunches numbers exceptionally well, pulls high dps with his builds, and points the rest of the PvE community in the right direction to achieve min/maxed dps with all classes. That is entirely unrelated to class combat mechanics related to PvP.

That is an objective fact. Cheers.

Reasons to remove the recast in Grim Focus to have unlimited use during the duration:

-) Combat in both pve and pvp will be working smoother as you free up time
-) The skill is extremely underperforming in pve as the damage gets effictively cut in half during recast
-) In pvp against any competent player your burst only comes from timing your Grim Focus with an ult, this change would put more pressure on your opponent till your ult is back up.
-) It does nothing except do damage thats easier to predict and dodge than even frag which already is *** obvious. For that it already has harder condition than any other burst skills around so this change wouldnt overbuff.

I´d argue that the uniqueness comes from the way its proccd not from the recast so this wouldnt be "fundamentally altering" it.

My proposition would be refresh the bow proc after shooting for the whole duration and instead make it shoot after 5 light attacks to make it not possible to cast it more often. The only thing that would change is free up one global for doing something else in pvp and boost dps in pve without hurting any side.

It would be a frag with a 25% proc chance, normalizing performance for rng for the sake of argument.

The 4 light attack model is identical to frag, taking rnb out of the equation. The proc would fire as every fourth ability.

You're literally saying you want it to be easier and less unique. Combat doesn't need to have freed up time. Spending time on Grim Focus is important. It doesn't need to be less predictable in PvP. It hits like a truck. We should have to work to make it land. And mageblade already has a ton of sustained pressure. The moment of relieved pressure when recasting this is important.

Just my perspective on it. If you people want to dumb down this class, then *** it, I give up. Make the game a *** carebear RP mmo. I don't care anymore. Sorry for enjoying class diversity and mechanical challenge.

LoL K.

You asked for reasons I gave you 4. If you can´t live with that hf.

Sorry I broke your argument down so easily?

Okay.

As you love to compare Grim Focus with Frags.

Now Grim Focus is a Frag with 20% "proc chance" ~20% more damage, no stun, and needs an extra cast to even work once.
After the change its a frag with 20% "proc chanc" ~20% more damage, no stun and needs to be cast an additional time ever 20 sec.

Being unique doesn´t mean its good. Obsidian shard is also unique (ranged knockdown with heal) and still utter ***.
Focus is too clunky for pve and does deserve a change for pvp too simple as that.

You asked for reasons, you got them. You made a point why it shouldn´t get changed, you got reasons why that is bs.
Give better arguments other than I want it to be unique then lets talk again.

It's not a 20% proc chance frag. Pay attention closely.

After the change, Grim Focus will proc after 4 light attacks.
Frag procs after 3 ability casts.
How many ability casts are contained between 4 light attack weaves?
3.
Grim Focus proc is your 4th ability cast if you shoot it after that 4th light attack weave, right as it procs.
And frag is your 4th ability cast on average if it procs on every 3rd ability cast, following its proc chance.

If the proposed change goes through, the play patterns in practice of both abilities will be identical. Frag will just deal slightly less damage and apply a cc.

And in PvP, Obsidian Shard is actually pretty good now. One of my guildies has hit 9k heals with the heal morph as a Dark Elf with an average PvP build (not stacking bonus healing). Another routinely nukes the crap out of people with the damage morph. That ability was buffed somewhat recently. You should actually test it before writing it off as bad based on stigma from before the buffs.

Thanks for confirming that you just read the first line of my comment and didn´t even bother to even gaze over it.

Why try and constructively discuss with such a person?

xblackroxe wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Coming from a long-time PvE and PvP mageblade with vMoL completed forever ago, parsing 45k dps with purple gear and using Refreshing Path at the time, and nearly 183 days /played on my main character.

People are whining way too much right now, fixated on the Strife cost increase and overlooking so many wonderful changes. So far you've given us attempted QoL fixes on cloak and shade for PvP, dps buffs to path for PvE, slight changes to Manifestation of Terror (more still needed), and 8% bonus single target or aoe damage dealt by wielding a fire or lightning staff.

I have noticed that staff change has been overlooked by all the mageblade whining, but it's the single biggest change for the class this patch.

Yes, the other classes will benefit from it as well, but it's a huge help to us.

Thank you specifically for not fundamentally changing Grim Focus's casting mechanics like this vocal minority is calling for, but instead tuning up dps through Path. Wise move.

I see the big picture here, from an informed and experienced perspective. Strife was cheap. The change leaves me scratching my head, but it will be inconsequential in the end. The rest of these changes have been well-placed. I hope you keep up the positive effort.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Now for a damage threshold before the Agony cc breaks so that dots don't immediately break it, an aoe PvP oriented synergy for Consuming Darkness, and further reworks to Manifestation of Terror and Soul Siphon.

This makes no sense.

Staff buffs do not benefit Mablades any more than they do Magsorcs or Magplars or MagDKs. The Major Force nerf hurts NBs more than it does Sorcs or DKs.

Providing a buff to all Magicka users via staff changes may benefit Magblades but it does not buff them in relation to other Magicka builds. Magblade still remains the worst Magicka DPS class in PvE. No one brings Nightblades raiding and that isn't going to change with this patch.

And it doesn't look to me like a "vocal minority" calling for Grim Focus changes. In fact, I see the majority of people commenting on NB threads agreeing that the ability could use some fresh thinking, including quite a few well-known end-gamers. Same story on Reddit and other ESO communities. I suspect that you refer to it as a "vocal minority" because you want to marginalize opinions that don't align with your own.

Looks to me like you're making a dog and pony show of kissing ZOS's ass in order to justify your contrarian opinions. You are the vocal minority, not the other way 'round.

And then you've got the nerve to try to *** on @Gilliamtherogue and his contributions to the community. Oy vey. This is a troll shitpost if I've ever seen one.

Feel free to offer a solid counterargument to my points instead of more fluff. Thanks.

Fact is no one has provided a logical reason to why Grim Focus in particular needs to be fundamentally altered instead of having higher dps parse values brought into the kit elsewhere.

And it's true that Gil is a prominent PvEer because he crunches numbers exceptionally well, pulls high dps with his builds, and points the rest of the PvE community in the right direction to achieve min/maxed dps with all classes. That is entirely unrelated to class combat mechanics related to PvP.

That is an objective fact. Cheers.

Reasons to remove the recast in Grim Focus to have unlimited use during the duration:

-) Combat in both pve and pvp will be working smoother as you free up time
-) The skill is extremely underperforming in pve as the damage gets effictively cut in half during recast
-) In pvp against any competent player your burst only comes from timing your Grim Focus with an ult, this change would put more pressure on your opponent till your ult is back up.
-) It does nothing except do damage thats easier to predict and dodge than even frag which already is *** obvious. For that it already has harder condition than any other burst skills around so this change wouldnt overbuff.

I´d argue that the uniqueness comes from the way its proccd not from the recast so this wouldnt be "fundamentally altering" it.

My proposition would be refresh the bow proc after shooting for the whole duration and instead make it shoot after 5 light attacks to make it not possible to cast it more often. The only thing that would change is free up one global for doing something else in pvp and boost dps in pve without hurting any side.

It would be a frag with a 25% proc chance, normalizing performance for rng for the sake of argument.

The 4 light attack model is identical to frag, taking rnb out of the equation. The proc would fire as every fourth ability.

You're literally saying you want it to be easier and less unique. Combat doesn't need to have freed up time. Spending time on Grim Focus is important. It doesn't need to be less predictable in PvP. It hits like a truck. We should have to work to make it land. And mageblade already has a ton of sustained pressure. The moment of relieved pressure when recasting this is important.

Just my perspective on it. If you people want to dumb down this class, then *** it, I give up. Make the game a *** carebear RP mmo. I don't care anymore. Sorry for enjoying class diversity and mechanical challenge.

LoL K.

You asked for reasons I gave you 4. If you can´t live with that hf.

Sorry I broke your argument down so easily?

Okay.

As you love to compare Grim Focus with Frags.

Now Grim Focus is a Frag with 20% "proc chance" ~20% more damage, no stun, and needs an extra cast to even work once.
After the change its a frag with 20% "proc chanc" ~20% more damage, no stun and needs to be cast an additional time ever 20 sec.

Being unique doesn´t mean its good. Obsidian shard is also unique (ranged knockdown with heal) and still utter ***.
Focus is too clunky for pve and does deserve a change for pvp too simple as that.

You asked for reasons, you got them. You made a point why it shouldn´t get changed, you got reasons why that is bs.
Give better arguments other than I want it to be unique then lets talk again.

It's not a 20% proc chance frag. Pay attention closely.

After the change, Grim Focus will proc after 4 light attacks.
Frag procs after 3 ability casts.
How many ability casts are contained between 4 light attack weaves?
3.
Grim Focus proc is your 4th ability cast if you shoot it after that 4th light attack weave, right as it procs.
And frag is your 4th ability cast on average if it procs on every 3rd ability cast, following its proc chance.

If the proposed change goes through, the play patterns in practice of both abilities will be identical. Frag will just deal slightly less damage and apply a cc.

And in PvP, Obsidian Shard is actually pretty good now. One of my guildies has hit 9k heals with the heal morph as a Dark Elf with an average PvP build (not stacking bonus healing). Another routinely nukes the crap out of people with the damage morph. That ability was buffed somewhat recently. You should actually test it before writing it off as bad based on stigma from before the buffs.

Thanks for confirming that you just read the first line of my comment and didn´t even bother to even gaze over it.

Why try and constructively discuss with such a person?

But...I responded to each of your points line by line.

I am going to give my thoughts on why I think grim focus should NOT be changed.

A few days ago I was on my dual wield sorc and was dueling @Zendran who is an exceptional mageblade dueler. In my opinion, when faced with a very exceptional mageblade, beating that player on a magicka sorc is very hard. The reason being is that the magicka nightblade can maintain almost 100% uptime on pressure while the sorc has to constantly stack shields and spend minutes waiting for that small window to which the sorc can put some pressure back (DW sorc, but I feel this is true with staff sorc as well). When I do beat a good mageblade on my sorc, they will often tell me after the fight that they had over x million damage on me throughout the whole fight. There is more to it than that, such as a good player like @Zendran should and will never miss blocking a frag or dodging it because of things like siphoning attacks and being able to keep the pressure up, but this is the main thing. While some of this pressure is partly because of how strong valkyn is, it is mainly because of the way that the nightblade works in relation to sorc. The only time in the fight when the mageblade is not putting on pressure is when they have to reapply buffs. If grim focus was changed to what people have said earlier in this thread, part of that time of not having to rebuff up would be gone, in turn making the fight even harder for the sorc. I personally feel that magicka nightblade is one of if not the best dueling class in the game (#1 in my opinion but stam sorc can be good as well). While some may say that dueling doesn't matter, it has its effects on open world pvp too.

In another situation, I have dueled him on my stamblade as well. I focus on being as elusive as possible on my stamblade, so when @Zendran fights me he has to make those assassins wills count. 9 times out of 10 I will dodge it if he doesn't try to set it up correctly. If what people want grim focus to change to happens, then it won't even be a big deal if he misses one since he doesn't have to relive pressure to get another up.

While you may say that this perspective only has pvp in mind, balance should always be done with pvp in mind first. This is because the devs can balance pve in different ways such as changing the actual content, introducing sets that benefit specific classes more (Illabris, Soulshine, Spell Power Cure on a mageblade, etc.), changing what the skills actually do in pve (negate, ambush), the competitiveness of pvp, gear having more of an effect on dps than skill, and the fact that pve is the same thing over and over again making it easier while pvp is always different and involves fighting enemies that can reason.

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Yes you are one of those that can make Majic out of mud gear sets ... Figures it had to be one of the top 3 Magblades of all time I decide to debate . Damnit . Damnit damnit damnit ! I'm going to eat a gallon of Icecream and making myself feel better .

Now I want ice cream...

Who are the other two mageblades in your mind?

I don't want to throw PC names around and start a who's best war but from when I was on Ps4 , this is one .

I ask out of curiosity. I've nothing to prove. Watching now.

EDIT: Pretty good for being limited by console controllers. He manages some good fear and impale animation cancels with bar swap and dodge roll, and prioritizes targets well. The damage he's taking looks so low though. How many CP does he have? I ask so I can compare his stats to those of his opponents.

pieratsos wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

I am going to give my thoughts on why I think grim focus should NOT be changed.

A few days ago I was on my dual wield sorc and was dueling @Zendran who is an exceptional mageblade dueler. In my opinion, when faced with a very exceptional mageblade, beating that player on a magicka sorc is very hard. The reason being is that the magicka nightblade can maintain almost 100% uptime on pressure while the sorc has to constantly stack shields and spend minutes waiting for that small window to which the sorc can put some pressure back (DW sorc, but I feel this is true with staff sorc as well). When I do beat a good mageblade on my sorc, they will often tell me after the fight that they had over x million damage on me throughout the whole fight. There is more to it than that, such as a good player like @Zendran should and will never miss blocking a frag or dodging it because of things like siphoning attacks and being able to keep the pressure up, but this is the main thing. While some of this pressure is partly because of how strong valkyn is, it is mainly because of the way that the nightblade works in relation to sorc. The only time in the fight when the mageblade is not putting on pressure is when they have to reapply buffs. If grim focus was changed to what people have said earlier in this thread, part of that time of not having to rebuff up would be gone, in turn making the fight even harder for the sorc. I personally feel that magicka nightblade is one of if not the best dueling class in the game (#1 in my opinion but stam sorc can be good as well). While some may say that dueling doesn't matter, it has its effects on open world pvp too.

In another situation, I have dueled him on my stamblade as well. I focus on being as elusive as possible on my stamblade, so when @Zendran fights me he has to make those assassins wills count. 9 times out of 10 I will dodge it if he doesn't try to set it up correctly. If what people want grim focus to change to happens, then it won't even be a big deal if he misses one since he doesn't have to relive pressure to get another up.

While you may say that this perspective only has pvp in mind, balance should always be done with pvp in mind first. This is because the devs can balance pve in different ways such as changing the actual content, introducing sets that benefit specific classes more (Illabris, Soulshine, Spell Power Cure on a mageblade, etc.), changing what the skills actually do in pve (negate, ambush), the competitiveness of pvp, gear having more of an effect on dps than skill, and the fact that pve is the same thing over and over again making it easier while pvp is always different and involves fighting enemies that can reason.

So you are saying dont make any changes cause magblades are already good in duelling. The funny thing is that mDKs are demigods in duelling. That by itself should tell you how bad it is to balance around duelling. All classes are good in duelling. There is no class balance in duelling. There is always going to be someone that can counter ur build. It doesnt mean its balanced.

He used duels as an example to make a point which impacts PvP as a whole. Would you rather ZOS balance around zerging, or around dps parses? You can't limit balance decisions to small portions of the game and exclude others, else you end up with train wreck changes like the original Haunting Curse...

willlienellson wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

He asked who I am. Go read his response to learning.

He? I quoted 4 pages of your insanely self-aggrandizing disdainful comments to almost everyone from your first post on.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

You're the one reacting with attitude to the idea of someone knowing what he's talking about better than you.

Thank you for proving my point. I haven't even taken a stance, made an argument, or given any indication of what I know or don't know. I'm just astounded that you exist. You're a caricature.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Would you get butthurt that a doctor gives you medical advice?.

LMAO! Thanks for that. Really. lol.

Yes he, go back and read what part I was replying to. And you're a troll.. Nice constructive input.

willlienellson wrote: »

Like I said,

willlienellson wrote: »

I quoted 4 pages of your insanely self-aggrandizing disdainful comments to almost everyone from your first post on.

Jesus christ, do I have to spell this out for you?

The first part you quoted was "I am Kena" followed by a couple of quotes from the same comment. Those were replying to @Rohamad_Ali when he asked who I am. I told him who I am.

Everything else I said about myself is true, whether you like it or not, and I only said it when challenged. People demanded qualifications for the things I had stated, so I provided them. That's how the world works.

Stop being unnecessarily antagonistic.