ZOS, thank you for the MASSIVE BUFFS to mageblade (I'm dead serious)

Mojmir · January 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

Still last in dps vs other mage class's and they still increasing the cost of strife.. with no compensation in damage.

But...they did compensate damage...a little. They want to buff mageblade. They're just doing incremental changes.

Buff Path and Shade, and we can come back in line with other classes easily @ZOS_GinaBruno

I'm more anxious for grim focus to be looked at,although who knows now when we'll see it since rich said it won't make the update.

T_T I don't understand why you people keep vying for Grim Focus changes.

Why is that ability suddenly so bad?

Why no appreciation for unique mechanics?

It's been for awhile and that's why I haven't used to it,it's clunky for a good rotation.

Silver_Strider · January 2017

Ok, let's be realistic here

We got 2 buffs (Path and Manifestation of Terror)
2 QoL changes (Cloak and Shades, although the change to shades can be seen as nerf in PvP as you can't stealth any more with Shades having instant aggro)
2 Nerfs (Strife and Incapacitating Strike)

We get a general buff in Fire/Lightning Staff changes
A slight nerf for DW builds
We get nerfed by Major/Minor Force changes as well as the proc sets no longer critting change

Overall result of these changes:

The rare NB tank and healer got hit with the Strife change, making those roles somewhat more difficult to pull off successfully and due to how heavily favored DK tanks and Templar healers are, this change will not help either role be more favorable at endgame content. The Path change does, at least, help them though as extra damage means things die quicker so there is that and it does up Magblade DPS a little bit.

The main issue though, are the changes to Major and Minor Force. NBs benefitted from these more than other classes and considering how important they are for endgame, if NBs don't receive something to compensate for those changes, their DPS might end up hitting an all time low.

Izaki · January 2017

Well... @Destruent a light attack + force pulse weave is about 1.1 second. That means a spectral bow proc every 5 seconds (has a 0.4 sec cast time) A bow proc can hit as hard as 65k (probably way higher for the top magblades out there) in a raid situation. On average, it crits for over 45-50k. 70% crit chance is common for a magblade. NB crit damage is typically around 80-90%. Too lazy to do the math here, bit basically you'll be doing around 7-11k DPS with the bow proc alone (more if you're real lucky on the crits). For comparison, Frags does around 4-6k on most parses. Doesn't take a genuis to see that the auto recast on bow proc is way beyond OP.

Izaki · January 2017

^ it is already 6.5% of total damage on NB with the recast. That's a lot.

Rohamad_Ali · January 2017

Weapon buffs are not class buffs . Please stop calling staffs a nightblade buff . It's not .

NightbladeMechanics · January 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Weapon buffs are not class buffs . Please stop calling staffs a nightblade buff . It's not .

It is for PvP.

Rohamad_Ali · January 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Weapon buffs are not class buffs . Please stop calling staffs a nightblade buff . It's not .

It is for PvP.

No because not all night blades use cookie cutter destro staff builds . All classes have acces to all weapons . They do not constitute a class buff .

Subversus · January 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Weapon buffs are not class buffs . Please stop calling staffs a nightblade buff . It's not .

It is for PvP.

No because not all night blades use cookie cutter destro staff builds . All classes have acces to all weapons . They do not constitute a class buff .

Exactly lmfao. 1 conclusion can clearly be drawn from this thread, OP is an absolutely terrible nightblade.

Gilliamtherogue · January 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

Still last in dps vs other mage class's and they still increasing the cost of strife.. with no compensation in damage.

But...they did compensate damage...a little. They want to buff mageblade. They're just doing incremental changes.

Buff Path and Shade, and we can come back in line with other classes easily @ZOS_GinaBruno

I'm more anxious for grim focus to be looked at,although who knows now when we'll see it since rich said it won't make the update.

T_T I don't understand why you people keep vying for Grim Focus changes.

Why is that ability suddenly so bad?

Why no appreciation for unique mechanics?

3 casts to a single damage ability = "unique mechanics". You must also think heavy attack augments like Essence Drain are "unique mechanics" too.

Your main issue against Grim Focus is you don't the rotation to be trivialized, yet the skill already requires something that most of the player base suffers tremendously from; active and high uptime weaving. The maximum speed in which you can get up the Spectral Bow is 4 seconds, which requires perfect weaves and perfect animation canceling (which no human can actively do throughout a prolonged fight due to human error). Stopping to do mechanics or making a single mistake incurs heavy operational loss on the DPS performance of this skill in its current clunky state.

The best solution is to only force Grim Focus's cast every 20 seconds, and Spectral Bow merely resets after use, where an additional 4 LA or HA must be done before it can be activated again. After 20 seconds the Minor Berserk fades and you must recast again before you are allowed to use Spectral Bow after 4 LA's. This hardly trivializes the skill, retaining the unique mechanics, and rewarding active weaving throughout difficult content and gives a player a sense of skill progression to actively better themselves to stop missing weaves.

NightbladeMechanics · January 2017

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

Still last in dps vs other mage class's and they still increasing the cost of strife.. with no compensation in damage.

But...they did compensate damage...a little. They want to buff mageblade. They're just doing incremental changes.

Buff Path and Shade, and we can come back in line with other classes easily @ZOS_GinaBruno

I'm more anxious for grim focus to be looked at,although who knows now when we'll see it since rich said it won't make the update.

T_T I don't understand why you people keep vying for Grim Focus changes.

Why is that ability suddenly so bad?

Why no appreciation for unique mechanics?

3 casts to a single damage ability = "unique mechanics". You must also think heavy attack augments like Essence Drain are "unique mechanics" too.

Your main issue against Grim Focus is you don't the rotation to be trivialized, yet the skill already requires something that most of the player base suffers tremendously from; active and high uptime weaving. The maximum speed in which you can get up the Spectral Bow is 4 seconds, which requires perfect weaves and perfect animation canceling (which no human can actively do throughout a prolonged fight due to human error). Stopping to do mechanics or making a single mistake incurs heavy operational loss on the DPS performance of this skill in its current clunky state.

The best solution is to only force Grim Focus's cast every 20 seconds, and Spectral Bow merely resets after use, where an additional 4 LA or HA must be done before it can be activated again. After 20 seconds the Minor Berserk fades and you must recast again before you are allowed to use Spectral Bow after 4 LA's. This hardly trivializes the skill, retaining the unique mechanics, and rewarding active weaving throughout difficult content and gives a player a sense of skill progression to actively better themselves to stop missing weaves.

Mmmm said with zero appreciation for the PvP side of the game. At least I'm trying to offer a middle ground to bring your precious parses up to par.

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Weapon buffs are not class buffs . Please stop calling staffs a nightblade buff . It's not .

It is for PvP.

No because not all night blades use cookie cutter destro staff builds . All classes have acces to all weapons . They do not constitute a class buff .

Since when is destro mageblade cookie cutter in PvP? There were all of...2 or 3 ever in the last year until I publicized mine after the One Tamriel patch? No. lol

And do the destro changes not increase the class's capabilities? They do. Therefore although the changes aren't internal to the class, they do in fact buff the class.

NightbladeMechanics · January 2017

Subversus wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Weapon buffs are not class buffs . Please stop calling staffs a nightblade buff . It's not .

It is for PvP.

No because not all night blades use cookie cutter destro staff builds . All classes have acces to all weapons . They do not constitute a class buff .

Exactly lmfao. 1 conclusion can clearly be drawn from this thread, OP is an absolutely terrible nightblade.

Flawless logic m8

Destruent · January 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Well... @Destruent a light attack + force pulse weave is about 1.1 second. That means a spectral bow proc every 5 seconds (has a 0.4 sec cast time) A bow proc can hit as hard as 65k (probably way higher for the top magblades out there) in a raid situation. On average, it crits for over 45-50k. 70% crit chance is common for a magblade. NB crit damage is typically around 80-90%. Too lazy to do the math here, bit basically you'll be doing around 7-11k DPS with the bow proc alone (more if you're real lucky on the crits). For comparison, Frags does around 4-6k on most parses. Doesn't take a genuis to see that the auto recast on bow proc is way beyond OP.

NB-parses from mashinat: bow procc 3k (6%) DPS at first bos vMoL

Sorc-pars from YOLO: 4.2k DPS (~8%) from crystal fragment procc

so it is doing less DPS, but it takes 2 casts to get there...sorcs only need one cast for more DPS.

Gilliamtherogue · January 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Mmmm said with zero appreciation for the PvP side of the game. At least I'm trying to offer a middle ground to bring your precious parses up to par.

A skill revolved around weaving, which is hard enough to do when performance issues and being constantly pressured is happening, getting tuned up to have less fluff casts? Nah, I have appreciation for PvP and the change I've suggested would aid both PvE and PvP without making the skill over powered by any stretch. The only time the Spectral Bow gets in the line of being over tuned is in small man/dueling. Still, being pressured immediately lowers the efficiency of this skill and my suggestion aids it.

You're the one too focused on your own personal play style and preference to compromise.

NightbladeMechanics · January 2017

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Mmmm said with zero appreciation for the PvP side of the game. At least I'm trying to offer a middle ground to bring your precious parses up to par.

A skill revolved around weaving, which is hard enough to do when performance issues and being constantly pressured is happening, getting tuned up to have less fluff casts? Nah, I have appreciation for PvP and the change I've suggested would aid both PvE and PvP without making the skill over powered by any stretch. The only time it Spectral Bow gets in the line of being over tuned is in small man/dueling. Still, being pressured immediately lower the efficiency of this skill and my suggestion aids it.

You're the one too focused on your own personal play style and preference to compromise.

My play style spans all builds and play archetypes within the mageblade class. I've also played the other three classes.

In my opinion, lag should not weigh into balance decisions, as lag is not a feature of the game. But that's another debate entirely.

Your suggestion would "aid" PvE and PvP by degrading an intended class mechanic which we've all played around for years, making the class objectively easier to play and less unique from other class play patterns. I can't get behind watering down the game. Where's the fun in making everything easier?

Rohamad_Ali · January 2017

Meh one of those guys that argues even when wrong . No further interest in reading this nonsense .

NightbladeMechanics · January 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Meh one of those guys that argues even when wrong . No further interest in reading this nonsense .

We're debating opinion. I simply won't yield when the only argument made against me is "but it'll be easier this way." I can't get behind watering the game down.

Rohamad_Ali · January 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Meh one of those guys that argues even when wrong . No further interest in reading this nonsense .

We're debating opinion. I simply won't yield when the only argument made against me is "but it'll be easier this way." I can't get behind watering the game down.

No "we" are not debating opinion . Weapons are not class buff . A monster helmet may buff a Templar , a Sorc , a Nord or a DK but no one in their right mind goes around calling a monster helmet "a class buff" . Same with weapons . That is just nonsense to every vet here .

Mojmir · January 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Mmmm said with zero appreciation for the PvP side of the game. At least I'm trying to offer a middle ground to bring your precious parses up to par.

A skill revolved around weaving, which is hard enough to do when performance issues and being constantly pressured is happening, getting tuned up to have less fluff casts? Nah, I have appreciation for PvP and the change I've suggested would aid both PvE and PvP without making the skill over powered by any stretch. The only time it Spectral Bow gets in the line of being over tuned is in small man/dueling. Still, being pressured immediately lower the efficiency of this skill and my suggestion aids it.

You're the one too focused on your own personal play style and preference to compromise.

My play style spans all builds and play archetypes within the mageblade class. I've also played the other three classes.

In my opinion, lag should not weigh into balance decisions, as lag is not a feature of the game. But that's another debate entirely.

Your suggestion would "aid" PvE and PvP by degrading an intended class mechanic which we've all played around for years, making the class objectively easier to play and less unique from other class play patterns. I can't get behind watering down the game. Where's the fun in making everything easier?

Grim focus has already been changed before from haste,to aid pvp and pve. Well guess what? After almost a year, it's needs to be tweaked. It's clunky as hell recasting it,not firing it.

Gilliamtherogue · January 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Mmmm said with zero appreciation for the PvP side of the game. At least I'm trying to offer a middle ground to bring your precious parses up to par.

A skill revolved around weaving, which is hard enough to do when performance issues and being constantly pressured is happening, getting tuned up to have less fluff casts? Nah, I have appreciation for PvP and the change I've suggested would aid both PvE and PvP without making the skill over powered by any stretch. The only time it Spectral Bow gets in the line of being over tuned is in small man/dueling. Still, being pressured immediately lower the efficiency of this skill and my suggestion aids it.

You're the one too focused on your own personal play style and preference to compromise.

My play style spans all builds and play archetypes within the mageblade class. I've also played the other three classes.

In my opinion, lag should not weigh into balance decisions, as lag is not a feature of the game. But that's another debate entirely.

Your suggestion would "aid" PvE and PvP by degrading an intended class mechanic which we've all played around for years, making the class objectively easier to play and less unique from other class play patterns. I can't get behind watering down the game. Where's the fun in making everything easier?

I've played the game at the top tier for the game's life, helping shape the meta to what it is every patch. I have every class in both specs and see how each of them perform and the Nightblade class as a whole is under performing more than any other class in like comparison. Grim Focus is a huge part in why both Stamina and Magicka DPS are underwhelming. One of their core mechanics revolves around a skill that is so grossly under performing that you have an entire thread telling you that your thoughts on the skill are wrong. Stamina builds don't even use the skill in end game DPS if a healer is applying Minor Berserk, because the 2 cast per damage loses out to repeating your spammable. THAT is diluted, watered down, poor gameplay. If you want more skill based game play then you need to incentivize dynamic and rewarding mechanics, which Grim Focus does not capitalize on much unless you are playing solo without Minor Berserk. That is not a well balanced skill when it's only good in 10% of the game.

pieratsos · January 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@LeifErickson made a poignant point today regarding nightblade PvE balance:

He said that sorc PvE dps parses jumped with the introduction of Illambris.

And that if one class's dps jumped due to a 2pc set, then why fundamentally alter another class's unique mechanics to close the gap?

Because sorcs are also getting buffed now? Have u seen curse? Try to compete with that.

usmcjdking · January 2017

It's a very strong skill, no one is denying that, what is being brought to developer attention is that it is hugely inefficient for such a key skill.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@LeifErickson made a poignant point today regarding nightblade PvE balance:

He said that sorc PvE dps parses jumped with the introduction of Illambris.

And that if one class's dps jumped due to a 2pc set, then why fundamentally alter another class's unique mechanics to close the gap?

Because in the case of MNB and Merciless Resolve, a class defining PVE skill, it's nearly more efficient to simply not cast it at all.

brandonv516 · January 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

People are whining way too much right now, fixated on the Strife cost increase and overlooking so many wonderful changes. So far you've given us attempted QoL fixes on cloak and shade for PvP, dps buffs to path for PvE, slight changes to Manifestation of Terror (more still needed), and 8% bonus single target or aoe damage dealt by wielding a fire or lightning staff.

Please just explain how Shades has been buffed. I don't see it.

NightbladeMechanics · January 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Meh one of those guys that argues even when wrong . No further interest in reading this nonsense .

We're debating opinion. I simply won't yield when the only argument made against me is "but it'll be easier this way." I can't get behind watering the game down.

No "we" are not debating opinion . Weapons are not class buff . A monster helmet may buff a Templar , a Sorc , a Nord or a DK but no one in their right mind goes around calling a monster helmet "a class buff" . Same with weapons . That is just nonsense to every vet here .

This debate is about Grim Focus, not semantics in referring to weapon line buffs. You missed the point.

usmcjdking wrote: »

It's a very strong skill, no one is denying that, what is being brought to developer attention is that it is hugely inefficient for such a key skill.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@LeifErickson made a poignant point today regarding nightblade PvE balance:

He said that sorc PvE dps parses jumped with the introduction of Illambris.

And that if one class's dps jumped due to a 2pc set, then why fundamentally alter another class's unique mechanics to close the gap?

Because in the case of MNB and Merciless Resolve, a class defining PVE skill, it's nearly more efficient to simply not cast it at all.

Is merciless a class defining pve ability? Because with a healer in the back of the raid pressing 3 every other ability to give everyone minor berserk, and only pvpers speaking up in its defense, it's sure feeling like a class defining pvp ability right now.

@Gilliamtherogue you say you want dynamic and rewarding mechanics and skill based gameplay, yet you're advocating turning mageblade into a sorc who casts frag every 4 abilities. You have been influential in the game because you crunch numbers and memorize dps rotations. This does not make you an authority on class diversity or gameplay mechanics.

NightbladeMechanics · January 2017

brandonv516 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

People are whining way too much right now, fixated on the Strife cost increase and overlooking so many wonderful changes. So far you've given us attempted QoL fixes on cloak and shade for PvP, dps buffs to path for PvE, slight changes to Manifestation of Terror (more still needed), and 8% bonus single target or aoe damage dealt by wielding a fire or lightning staff.

Please just explain how Shades has been buffed. I don't see it.

QoL stands for quality of life. In shade's case, the change is merely aesthetic. Don't twist my words.

Edit: though on the subject, I'd love to see some sort of pve-oriented shade buff. It's already a very long lasting dot. Make them not steal SPC, increase damage and attack speed, and we're in business.

NightbladeMechanics · January 2017

I'd love to see funnel health, refreshing path, and veil be adored in pve raids. Extra hots and mitigation and damage for everybody. Let's talk about fixing and buffing shade, buffing path, and buffing consuming darkness to compete in today's trials instead of demanding frag procs. Heck, maybe even agony could be made into another trial-viable dot to add to the rotation. Mageblades have a ton of dots. Bring them up to par.

Mojmir · January 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I'd love to see funnel health, refreshing path, and veil be adored in pve raids. Extra hots and mitigation and damage for everybody. Let's talk about fixing and buffing shade, buffing path, and buffing consuming darkness to compete in today's trials instead of demanding frag procs. Heck, maybe even agony could be made into another trial-viable dot to add to the rotation. Mageblades have a ton of dots. Bring them up to par.

Once again, it's not an issue of making it instacast, stop comparing it to sorcs, it's an entirely differently class.the issue is continuity. How smooth it is in casting, BTW, I see no issue with veil in my raids, it's the most asked for defensive ultimate in our vet trial runs next to novas.

willlienellson · January 2017

Look, I'm a really smart guy. Okay? I went to top schools. Top schools. Ask anybody okay?
We have a problem with nightblade. We do. It's a huge problem. I have people calling me, saying please do something about NB, you must do something about NB. It's true.
Magica nightblades aren't winning. We don't win anymore. But we're going to start winning because we're getting buffed. We're getting huge buffs and we're going to be doing so much winning, okay? Trust me, I'm a really smart guy.

-OP

Rohamad_Ali · January 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

Look, I'm a really smart guy. Okay? I went to top schools. Top schools. Ask anybody okay?
We have a problem with nightblade. We do. It's a huge problem. I have people calling me, saying please do something about NB, you must do something about NB. It's true.
Magica nightblades aren't winning. We don't win anymore. But we're going to start winning because we're getting buffed. We're getting huge buffs and we're going to be doing so much winning, okay? Trust me, I'm a really smart guy.

-OP

I trust you .

ixie · January 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

People are whining way too much right now, fixated on the Strife cost increase and overlooking so many wonderful changes. So far you've given us attempted QoL fixes on cloak and shade for PvP, dps buffs to path for PvE, slight changes to Manifestation of Terror (more still needed), and 8% bonus single target or aoe damage dealt by wielding a fire or lightning staff.

Please just explain how Shades has been buffed. I don't see it.

QoL stands for quality of life. In shade's case, the change is merely aesthetic. Don't twist my words.

Edit: though on the subject, I'd love to see some sort of pve-oriented shade buff. It's already a very long lasting dot. Make them not steal SPC, increase damage and attack speed, and we're in business.

I see the change to shade attacking as soon as it's cast as a nerf, it brings you out of stealth and means you can't pre-cast it even in pve

NightbladeMechanics · January 2017

Glad to see you all have solid arguments to stand on.

tribbsb16_ESO wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

People are whining way too much right now, fixated on the Strife cost increase and overlooking so many wonderful changes. So far you've given us attempted QoL fixes on cloak and shade for PvP, dps buffs to path for PvE, slight changes to Manifestation of Terror (more still needed), and 8% bonus single target or aoe damage dealt by wielding a fire or lightning staff.

Please just explain how Shades has been buffed. I don't see it.

QoL stands for quality of life. In shade's case, the change is merely aesthetic. Don't twist my words.

Edit: though on the subject, I'd love to see some sort of pve-oriented shade buff. It's already a very long lasting dot. Make them not steal SPC, increase damage and attack speed, and we're in business.

I see the change to shade attacking as soon as it's cast as a nerf, it brings you out of stealth and means you can't pre-cast it even in pve

Ah yes, I forgot that change. While this will have minor effects on play patterns, though, it won't have a long term impact on the performance of class in my opinion. We will see after the patch.