PTS Feedback Thread for Dragonknight Balance Improvements

tinythinker · January 2017

Armitas wrote: »

Talk to us ZOS. There is only have 1 week to change cDB and test it. The community doesn't have any patience left for this to flop. Talk to us, for once talk to your community about what you are thinking.

That post from Rich is it for now. Might get a follow-up. Might not. No ESO Live. We can post on this forum and send in-game feedback.

IcyDeadPeople · January 2017

Areloth wrote: »

I tested it in cyrodiil.
It's really not that bad as you might think.
I hav 43k magicka, my 19.2k heal was with around 25% magicka.
When I cast a shield at full magicka and then use dragon blood it heals already for around 5k.

Consider that you get crits now!

43k magicka - if I have like 50% its 21.5k magicka missing, 33% of it is 7095 heal.
Now 50% less: 3547 heal
+12% draconic ability
+25% minor mending
+ 8% coagulating blood
+ 5% champion points
=+50% --> 5321 heal
now it can crit, so +64%
--> 8726 heal

with heavy armor even more.

but believe me, somehow it is healing way more than it says...I am not sure if battle spirit is really affecting it. For me it looks pretty OP - test it. I had to logg out after an hour of testing.

Test it before hating Zeni too much.

Yes, I didn't take notes on the numbers yet, but after dueling a few hours I noticed at least a few cases where hitting dragon blood once healed me almost to full health. (at 24k health, 36k magicka, and spell damage around 4k). There were times when it didn't heal much, and it requires some keeping an eye on your magicka bar, but overall it is more helpful on PTS than live.

However, as others mentioned, it seems making force pulse non-reflectable will have a bigger impact on magicka DK than the changes to DK class abilities.

EDIT: just saw this

KisoValley wrote: »

It's funny the people defending the change to Cdb when it's bugged atm and is ignoring battle spirit lol

Just wait until battle spirit gets its hand on Cdb.

IxskullzxI · January 2017

@IcyDeadPeople
That person is wrong. Battle spirit is affecting it.

Armitas · January 2017

One thing I see happening with this reflect change is that Sorcs will move away from lit staves to gain the single target damage buff of a fire staff to put extra damage on force shock, overload, and shards. This means that while we are rooted from encase after encase and mortar after mortar, while we try to find our way into the sorc mine fortress we are going to be hit by + 8% force shocks. If several DK's start to drop wings from their bar then eventually we will see fire staff weaving added to the mix. This is a really bad change.

Xvorg · January 2017

Armitas wrote: »

One thing I see happening with this reflect change is that Sorcs will move away from lit staves to gain the single target damage buff of a fire staff to put extra damage on force shock, overload, and shards. This means that while we are rooted from encase after encase and mortar after mortar, while we try to find our way into the sorc mine fortress we are going to be hit by + 8% force shocks. If several DK's start to drop wings from their bar then eventually we will see fire staff weaving added to the mix. This is a really bad change.

With AoE dmg increase, and minor vulnerability, I think that mDK and mageblade are going to move to lit staff.

IcyDeadPeople · January 2017

MrGorv wrote: »

BTW, apart from all the changes to DK abilities, there is an indirect nerf to the Flame Lash morph. CC cooldown is increased and that means that Power Lash can proc only every 7 seconds instead of every 5. At this point, I think, its damage deserves reconsideration along with damage of base ability.

Unfortunately, this is what I have been using for my main self-heal. No resto staff, as I'm running S&B + destro and on live server I get more mileage out of Flame Lash and Deep Breath than CDB.

Armitas · January 2017

Xvorg wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

One thing I see happening with this reflect change is that Sorcs will move away from lit staves to gain the single target damage buff of a fire staff to put extra damage on force shock, overload, and shards. This means that while we are rooted from encase after encase and mortar after mortar, while we try to find our way into the sorc mine fortress we are going to be hit by + 8% force shocks. If several DK's start to drop wings from their bar then eventually we will see fire staff weaving added to the mix. This is a really bad change.

With AoE dmg increase, and minor vulnerability, I think that mDK and mageblade are going to move to lit staff.

Good point. I wonder how that draw essence heal will be with the aoe buff.

Xvorg · January 2017

Armitas wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

One thing I see happening with this reflect change is that Sorcs will move away from lit staves to gain the single target damage buff of a fire staff to put extra damage on force shock, overload, and shards. This means that while we are rooted from encase after encase and mortar after mortar, while we try to find our way into the sorc mine fortress we are going to be hit by + 8% force shocks. If several DK's start to drop wings from their bar then eventually we will see fire staff weaving added to the mix. This is a really bad change.

With AoE dmg increase, and minor vulnerability, I think that mDK and mageblade are going to move to lit staff.

Good point. I wonder how that draw essence heal will be with the aoe buff.

No idea, remember that it will be a cap for +6 enemies hit.

In the case of mDK, 75 point in thaum are standard so tghe real buff to whip could reach 15% extra dmg

Standard, fiery breath, Inferno?, volatile armor, talons?, Inhale, Magma Armor and Ash clod will receive a boost from lit staff. Besides that, full heavy lit is a DoT, and destro touch is a DoT WITH a stun (insert whip here)

MaxwellC · January 2017

I still wish ZOS would address our sustain I mean jeez it would be nice to get a blanket cost reduction across all skills by like 200-300 magic and on top of that I'd still love flames of Oblivion returning to it's glorious AoE form but to only increase damage against DoT (while ofc damaging the enemy) but with no negative side effects because hurricane from sorc.
I still want helping hands to give me 10% back as well.

Cinderstorm should finally give us major evasion especially since it's been nerf'd + both cinder storm and eruption needs a increase in it's diameter by 2 meters. Reduce the cost of standard of might to 200 and shifting standard to 150. Allow changes to have a higher x n y axis because pulling people off of keeps is fun and it shouldn't be about Imma stand at the edge of the keep raining fire while generally nothing can happen to me.

Stamden · January 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

I still wish ZOS would address our sustain I mean jeez it would be nice to get a blanket cost reduction across all skills by like 200-300 magic

This is a big one. DKs have significantly higher costs on abilities (and ult, usually) when compared to other classes. So many utility skills cost upwards of 4k Magicka to cast.

NBs complain about the strife cost increase, while post-nerf it's still cheaper than almost all DK skills lol.

MagmaRoc · January 2017

The heal is ok but its honestly situational like if im really low on resources. Also My opinion on ash cloud such an unused ability does not do what we need it to. I would honestly just get rid of it overall and finally replace it with an execute for dk. It can be like a Dragon animation or just teeth and bite, efffect can be does x amount of damage when enemies are at low health does (x%increaded) amount of damage

A magicka Morph can be heals for 10-20% of damage done when enemy is executed only.

Stamina Morph (maybe) grants major savagery while slotted. (or) Simply applies a dot.

the leap ultimate is amazing now i honestly love it.

Battle Roar i like to know how much im getting back now

Please really consider this. Dk are the only class that doesnt have a class executes and you always ignore it. Every class can do damage and execute or be tanky and execute but dk. We need something to finish of the low health players before they heal up back to full with out always relying on weapon execute.

MaxwellC · January 2017

@MagmaRoc
You must not PvE a lot because ash clouds morph eruption is one of the main sets you'd use as a mag dk for PvE. The heal is not ok, if my resources are low the last thing I'd want to use is coag as it costs way too much and the heal is pretty bad unless you're barely scraping by (like 5%-10% magicka left).

Flames of oblivion just needs to go back to where it was in regards to the major savagery but also provide major prophecy as it does not but change that mage light reskin back to the proud AoE (without negative effects). Cautercize could be used in place of but it should instead give magicka back to the player or better yet when killing the target 50% of the targets remaining magicka gets consumed by you when you kill a target. That would be cool imo.

To be it seemed like battle roar wasn't changed but the amount of stamina I get back is terrible. What we really need is for some defiles maybe with noxious breath and engulfing flames.

Sanct16 · January 2017

@ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

Make Dragonblood a heal-over-time effect like Vigor. (If you want to keep the %missing health part make it pulse every 2 seconds for 8 seconds, each tick healing for 33%missing health). This would bring the healingoutput per cost more in line with other heals without buffing mDKs healing output too much so theyd be unkillable but allow them to be more offensive when being pressured. In PvE this shouldn't matter too much but in PvP the biggest problem mDKs have is that once you drop low health you can't heal out of execute range which means you have to *spam* heals and mistform around a tree until you have an ultimate up. A Stamclass in the same situation would just put Vigor and Rally up and focus down the attackers.
Proactive heals are way superior to reactive heals in this meta where being at 50% health means you will get oneshot if you get feared. The lack of a good HoT that can be used on demand (flame lash is nice but situational) also pretty much forces Dk into permablocking as otherwise you wouldnt even be able to outheal a single guy even if you spam Dragonblood.

ZoM_Head · January 2017

Armitas wrote: »

One thing I see happening with this reflect change is that Sorcs will move away from lit staves to gain the single target damage buff of a fire staff to put extra damage on force shock, overload, and shards. This means that while we are rooted from encase after encase and mortar after mortar, while we try to find our way into the sorc mine fortress we are going to be hit by + 8% force shocks. If several DK's start to drop wings from their bar then eventually we will see fire staff weaving added to the mix. This is a really bad change.

I have not slottted wings since DB Update, since the second i cast it in a 1v1 situation i still got hit, knocked down and took full damage from frag procs. Granted it works...sometimes but 50% chance for it not to do anything just made me drop that skill all together.

Sharee · January 2017

MagmaRoc wrote: »

Also My opinion on ash cloud such an unused ability does not do what we need it to. I would honestly just get rid of it overall and finally replace it with an execute for dk.

Ash cloud would actually be great in PvP if only it did what it is supposed to do according to the tooltip. As it is, it is way too easy to simply ignore - blob groups have rapids spammers, stam builds just roll out of it, sorcs bolt out of it... rarely if ever do you see anyone's movement reduced by 70% which is the ability's main purpose.

But imagine how useful it would be if it affected all movement, not just walking. Roll dodge distance reduced by 70%, bolt escape range reduced by 70%, and rapids not removing the speed debuff while in the area... (or hey, maybe it would even disable these abilities within the AOE, negate-style, now how's that for an idea!)

It would be an amazing ability.

Armitas · January 2017

ZoM_Head wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

One thing I see happening with this reflect change is that Sorcs will move away from lit staves to gain the single target damage buff of a fire staff to put extra damage on force shock, overload, and shards. This means that while we are rooted from encase after encase and mortar after mortar, while we try to find our way into the sorc mine fortress we are going to be hit by + 8% force shocks. If several DK's start to drop wings from their bar then eventually we will see fire staff weaving added to the mix. This is a really bad change.

I have not slottted wings since DB Update, since the second i cast it in a 1v1 situation i still got hit, knocked down and took full damage from frag procs. Granted it works...sometimes but 50% chance for it not to do anything just made me drop that skill all together.

What did you replace it with?

Vynn · January 2017

Sanct16 wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

Make Dragonblood a heal-over-time effect like Vigor. (If you want to keep the %missing health part make it pulse every 2 seconds for 8 seconds, each tick healing for 33%missing health). This would bring the healingoutput per cost more in line with other heals without buffing mDKs healing output too much so theyd be unkillable but allow them to be more offensive when being pressured. In PvE this shouldn't matter too much but in PvP the biggest problem mDKs have is that once you drop low health you can't heal out of execute range which means you have to *spam* heals and mistform around a tree until you have an ultimate up. A Stamclass in the same situation would just put Vigor and Rally up and focus down the attackers.
Proactive heals are way superior to reactive heals in this meta where being at 50% health means you will get oneshot if you get feared. The lack of a good HoT that can be used on demand (flame lash is nice but situational) also pretty much forces Dk into permablocking as otherwise you wouldnt even be able to outheal a single guy even if you spam Dragonblood.

I think dragonblood is needed as a burst heal. What should be made a HoT is the heal tick from embers instead of it applying when the DoT ends.

Stamden · January 2017

Armitas wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

One thing I see happening with this reflect change is that Sorcs will move away from lit staves to gain the single target damage buff of a fire staff to put extra damage on force shock, overload, and shards. This means that while we are rooted from encase after encase and mortar after mortar, while we try to find our way into the sorc mine fortress we are going to be hit by + 8% force shocks. If several DK's start to drop wings from their bar then eventually we will see fire staff weaving added to the mix. This is a really bad change.

I have not slottted wings since DB Update, since the second i cast it in a 1v1 situation i still got hit, knocked down and took full damage from frag procs. Granted it works...sometimes but 50% chance for it not to do anything just made me drop that skill all together.

What did you replace it with?

Tears

IxskullzxI · January 2017

Yeah a hot on db isnt the direction it should go, imo. A hot isnt going to save you from getting ganked or get you out of execute range. Not when the dk has no mobility.

Vynn · January 2017

Sharee wrote: »

MagmaRoc wrote: »

Also My opinion on ash cloud such an unused ability does not do what we need it to. I would honestly just get rid of it overall and finally replace it with an execute for dk.

Ash cloud would actually be great in PvP if only it did what it is supposed to do according to the tooltip. As it is, it is way too easy to simply ignore - blob groups have rapids spammers, stam builds just roll out of it, sorcs bolt out of it... rarely if ever do you see anyone's movement reduced by 70% which is the ability's main purpose.

But imagine how useful it would be if it affected all movement, not just walking. Roll dodge distance reduced by 70%, bolt escape range reduced by 70%, and rapids not removing the speed debuff while in the area... (or hey, maybe it would even disable these abilities within the AOE, negate-style, now how's that for an idea!)

It would be an amazing ability.

I would like it to apply the movement effect on the burst as a debuff instead of a ground effect. It just isnt big enough for the ground effect to be a hindrance.

old_mufasa · January 2017

Zos... what happened to addressing are MANA sustain issue.. you guys posted months ago that you would be addressing it with this patch.. and yet NOTHING at all is done to address it...

Adenoma · January 2017

Honestly, if they changed burning embers to a HOT rather than a heal-on-end/recast it would go a long way. MagDKs suffer from having both a poor burst heal and having a poor understanding of their heal status. For example, I just apply a lot of burning embers in 1vX, but I often can't tell for sure how much is left on the timer and how large of a burst heal that will provide. Likewise, inhale is a variable heal that's sometimes got a difficult to predict heal based on number of opponents and resists. At the same time on live, we have cDB which gives us a poor burst heal option.

I think it's worth changing BE so that it provides an active HOT like rally. This will allow better resource maintenance because you have a better idea of your health, it'll make more sense for new players, and it'll act a lot more like vigor - that's a luxury that stamina builds have where they have predictable burst and HOt options.

Xvorg · January 2017

Adenoma wrote: »

Honestly, if they changed burning embers to a HOT rather than a heal-on-end/recast it would go a long way. MagDKs suffer from having both a poor burst heal and having a poor understanding of their heal status. For example, I just apply a lot of burning embers in 1vX, but I often can't tell for sure how much is left on the timer and how large of a burst heal that will provide. Likewise, inhale is a variable heal that's sometimes got a difficult to predict heal based on number of opponents and resists. At the same time on live, we have cDB which gives us a poor burst heal option.

I think it's worth changing BE so that it provides an active HOT like rally. This will allow better resource maintenance because you have a better idea of your health, it'll make more sense for new players, and it'll act a lot more like vigor - that's a luxury that stamina builds have where they have predictable burst and HOt options.

Actually, a couple of times I've got killed because of BE and lag.

Armitas · January 2017

cDB won't work as a vigor clone. Vigor works because of it's heal speed and it's coupling with dodge roll and LoS. mDK can't do any of that. We still need a solid up front heal. cDB needs to hit at least 4k non crit in a moderate build. I think it should also come with a hot after the cast so that it's actually better than Blessing of Restoration or at least as efficient giving the cost difference.

Another possibility is that cDB also gives a bubble that scales up based on how much magicka you have and any remaining bubble is consumed as a heal just like healing ward. So if you get ganked at 100% magicka you cast cDB and get a bubble to fight under while you play for powerlash heals and burning embers heal. Any shield left when the timer ends turns into a heal. The shield would need to be just as powerful at 100% magicka as the heal is at low magicka. At 50% you get a good amount of both and at either extremes you either get a strong bubble or a strong heal. Just a thought in case they don't want to spend the time to revamp the skill.

Keep in mind that such a bubble can be strong in light armor or heavy armor, as a light armor build will stack bastion and have high sustain and a heavy armor build will stack hardy/elemental defender which works by mitigating before shields.

MagmaRoc · January 2017

@MaxwellC

Like i said the heal situational.

i only pve with my magicka dkand ash cloud just doesnt do what i want it to. Another dot is nice yes but it is the most unused skill in the dk line up.

Vanzen · January 2017

How on earth someone came up with the idea that Wings wont reflect destro attacks anymore ?!

I though this patch was about buffing DK, and all I see is nerf !

Can someone tell me how we stand a chance vs sorc now ?

(And yes I still love wings ! ) Stand on bridge's ramp under tower spamming harness/wings and see what it does ...

Bandit1215 · January 2017

Areloth wrote: »

Just tested dragon blood on pts...I manage to get 19.2k heals on light armor. The heal bonuses and the cp make the heal pretty good. Test it before judging

Yeah but how much magicka did you have when you used it(I'm assuming you used coagulating). If you had below 20% magicka to get a 19k heal, then it doesn't matter. You shouldnt have to have terrible sustain in order to get a HEAL.

CaliMade · January 2017

i think there trying to do to much with dragonsblood. just simply increase it to 50% of your missing health (25% in pvp) and leave the crit chance in.

Wings....fu/k it its broken.

Hutch679 · January 2017

No response from ZOS on this yet. Wow... shocking lol

Armitas · January 2017

Fengrush made a good point that 'all our sets are based on spell power, not max magicka'. Many farmed BSW 300x for their gear and now it's max magicka we have to stack. The best max magicka set is locked on having pets (necropentence). I think the most consolidated 5piece max magicka set we could get is 3 grace of the ancients (4%mag) and 2 will power. All of which take up our "any armor type" slots.