brandonv516 wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

My lvl 3 lost Imperial child raised by Argonians has no right to the "cosmetic title" my noble and liniaged dunmer earned by killing all the generals that spawn at dolmens.

Or the cosmetic skins, mementos, pets, etc. that your dunmer also earned, but the child still has access.

The vast majority of cosmetics shared between alts are bought in the crown store using account based crowns. (And even then, the current memento system isn't exactly well implemented, just seems like it's what was easiest to do.) By that same token what about quests. Imagine only being able to do an alchemy writ once a day per account, not per character. Of course writ completion is also an achievement. So if you argue for the achievement to be account wide, why not the cool down? Somethings work better being left character based.

brandonv516 wrote: »

I'm sure many will disagree but I've felt this way for awhile.

ZoS already allows dyes, mementos, skins, and many other things to be shared for the entire account.

Let us just take the next step and allow achievements (including titles earned) to be shared account-wide.

Discuss.

Just do it like they do in WoW. Have the achievement itself lit up as completed on all characters, but mousing over the achievement you can see whether or not it has been completed by the currently logged in character.

And Motifs that is to Master writs

brandonv516 wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

My lvl 3 lost Imperial child raised by Argonians has no right to the "cosmetic title" my noble and liniaged dunmer earned by killing all the generals that spawn at dolmens.

Or the cosmetic skins, mementos, pets, etc. that your dunmer also earned, but the child still has access.

The vast majority of cosmetics shared between alts are bought in the crown store using account based crowns. (And even then, the current memento system isn't exactly well implemented, just seems like it's what was easiest to do.) By that same token what about quests. Imagine only being able to do an alchemy writ once a day per account, not per character. Of course writ completion is also an achievement. So if you argue for the achievement to be account wide, why not the cool down? Somethings work better being left character based.

Quests provide more than cosmetics (i.e. gold, xp, items). There is no room for the comparison you made. This thread is a suggestion for cosmetics being account wide.

I've already said in this thread that I'm okay with titles not being account wide. I simply want achievements to be tracked by the account.

Artis wrote: »

@Sigtric @newtinmpls @ValkynSketha @Dubhliam @Hallothiel @lordrichter @Tavore1138 @Giles.floydub17_ESO and others if I forgot somebody.

Turns out the new update will have account-wide houses that will bring account-wide achievements and titles. Moreover, the system is such that houses are gated behind achievements (for example, DC manor behind the Hero of the Daggerfall Covenant) and it is possible that characters who didn't earn those houses can enter them. I know that of course none of you will use titles and houses on characters that haven't earned them and will make sure that every character will have a sum of gold needed to buy a house before that character can enter it.

However, I'd like to see a thread where either of you or preferrably all of you protest against such system. I mean, in this thread quite a few people are convinced that you are hypocrites and just want others to suffer for some reason. But now is a perfect opportunity for each of you to show your integrity. So I could I get a link to thread or specific comments, where you are arguing that houses and titles associated with owning manors shouldn't be account-wide?

If there's no such thread/comments yet, then maybe you didn't know, so here's the link to the patch notes: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/311708/pts-patch-notes-v2-7-0-homestead/p1

So you can create your thread(s) or comment now.

Please send links whenever you post your point of view on the issue.

Thank you.

That and this are two completely different things entirely. ZoS is creating account-wide housing that indirectly grants account-wide titles and achievements. Homestead was conceptually an account-wide thing. Armor dyes were conceptually an account-wide thing. One Tamriel allowing you to play your character in any alliance zone and do all of their quests with friends at any level was conceptually an account-AND-alliance-wide thing. . .

The reason people arguing against you in this thread isn't because we want you to suffer or do more or even that we care about you in any way shape or form. It's because you're asking for something that would conceptually change so many aspects of achievements as though it's some easy fix; like the new intern Paul McGreggor who just started working 2 days ago just has to open a config.txt file somewhere and change "Achievementunlock=character" to "Achievementunlock=account." But that isn't how it is, that would require resources and time for a change that quite frankly adds little to absolutely no impact on the game at all, EXCEPT that you guys would no longer be crying about it. And you know what? Let's say they do put the time and effort into it. What do you get out of it? What is it that you're actually trying to achieve by championing this cause of global achievements? Are you sad because you were out adventuring, and some new player walked by and saw someone next to you had a Master Angler title, and said, "YER NOT A MASTA ANGRLAr LIK DAT GUY?" and you couldn't flash your own Master Angler title and achievement right there on the spot? Like ffs short of the obvious (thread title) I have no idea what you're actually hoping to accomplish. The only argument any of you fools have put TOWARD it is like . . . "but . . . but mom I did it once before!" as if that in itself means anything other than you've done it before. It makes you sound entitled. THAT is why people are against you. You have to put forth actual reasoning when you say why you want something, instead of just "Well we didn't have this before so it's about time we have it now! Woo! Everyone bandwagon agree on me!" That's the sort of attitude that gets people to revolt against you even if you had good intent.

Only reason why housing titles will be account wide because manors will, ZOS just cant separate it.
Also mix of account wide and character wide achievements is stupid because this is a fake account wide you still wil lbe bounded to one character. You wont have an alt with hight reward titles? Just dont use it then, I know atleast 1 MMO with titles and achievements separate one from enother, your achievements is account wide, but you still must do it for each character if you want a title (only exception is legacy titles). Separate traits and motifs is fine - you can use it like craft char.
OMG people year 2017 and we still bounded to one char by achievements.

ClandestineFox wrote: »

The reason people arguing against you in this thread isn't because we want you to suffer or do more or even that we care about you in any way shape or form.

Which is what kind've annoys me. You're like "we're happy, so don't change anything", instead of "I'll support your request because it at most will only slightly inconvenience me, but other people seem to really want it."
As far as this aspect goes, it's like someone seeing a character creator with limited hairstyles and go, "I really want a green hair color. I have ideas I want to implement, and it would be really cool."
And you're like, "Nah. I don't like green hair, so instead of helping and supporting others, and just not using green hair--or even just staying out of the conversation-- I'm going to actively argue against green hair."
Coding-wise, I know it's not like that. This is referring to the unnecessarily rude mindset that people are coming in here with.

ClandestineFox wrote: »

It's because you're asking for something that would conceptually change so many aspects of achievements as though it's some easy fix; like the new intern Paul McGreggor who just started working 2 days ago just has to open a config.txt file somewhere and change "Achievementunlock=character" to "Achievementunlock=account." But that isn't how it is, that would require resources and time for a change that quite frankly adds little to absolutely no impact on the game at all, EXCEPT that you guys would no longer be crying about it.

I doubt most people actually think that (or at least I never did). And, if they did it right, the achievements should be an extension of the data, not core data itself. The motif checklists should be reading character data to know whether or not to light up, NOT having Shalidor's Library and Crafting Stations read Achievement data.
And honestly, the core of everything we want really just relies on how the achievement looks on the list + the rewards. It wouldn't be that hard to switch it so titles are checked in the same way as dyes, and for the achievement in general to light up, even if the separate motifs and skyshard descriptions stay grayed out.
And note that I'm considering difficulty relative to the stuff that they did creating the game and adding new content. I know enough PHP to understand the logical connections of referencing different data, but I'm sure they're using more complex languages. Doing all that to MySQL databases and PHP code wouldn't be too hard. Just tedious, long coding. For them to create the achievement databases, motif systems, and item generation and saves, I expect there to be A LOT more data for them to go through, but I also expect them to be good at it and know what they're doing.
And, considering they switched Horse Training from horses to characters, and Champion Points from characters to accounts, it may be somewhat different, but not an altogether new task for them.

That's why some of us are trying to think of some alternatives to at least compromise (like showing them on the character selection pages). They already grab information of each character on the page, and an achievement list already exists. No, it's not going to make it extremely simple, but it's also not going to be difficult for them to do, and it will increase some of their players' enjoyment while having "little to absolutely no impact on the game" itself. So, you could try following through with the beliefs you state (that it has little-to-no impact on you) and so stop arguing with us, and either let ZOS do it or ignore it?

ClandestineFox wrote: »

What is it that you're actually trying to achieve by championing this cause of global achievements? Are you sad because you were out adventuring, and some new player walked by and saw someone next to you had a Master Angler title, and said, "YER NOT A MASTA ANGRLAr LIK DAT GUY?" and you couldn't flash your own Master Angler title and achievement right there on the spot?

Um...from what I've read the biggest "prestige nazis" are the ones arguing to keep titles separate (and actually care what class you got it on). What we're (or at least I'm) trying accomplish?
#1) A relief for completionists that want to have alts. (Explanation in spoilers for length.)
#2) Because it shouldn't be a barrier for some light fun and creativity.
For some of us, earning a title or costume, or something can inspire us to make new characters. If I'm already willing to give up a character slot for it, and I've already completed the task on another character. I shouldn't have to do a ton of extra work if I one day decide that I do want to use a special title. If I get some great idea for a character with certain gear, a certain title and a certain look, I want to be able to do that pretty easily. Titles are the only thing that won't carry over (I can use my crafter to make gear for them), and the completionist in me will tell me that (even if I don't like the content or it was SUPER time consuming) 90% isn't good enough and that, if I completed it before, I have no reason not to complete it again.

ClandestineFox wrote: »

The only argument any of you fools have put TOWARD it is like . . . "but . . . but mom I did it once before!" as if that in itself means anything other than you've done it before. It makes you sound entitled. THAT is why people are against you. You have to put forth actual reasoning when you say why you want something, instead of just "Well we didn't have this before so it's about time we have it now! Woo! Everyone bandwagon agree on me!" That's the sort of attitude that gets people to revolt against you even if you had good intent.

1) Well, be sure to read the spoiler tags, since that will explain at least my views to you.
2) "I did it before" is going to be the core, because why else would someone want to change the scope of an achievement?
That's like saying "I want money." And someone else going "Your only argument for wanting money is that you want to spend money at some point. Yeah a couple of you said Save for Retirement, or Pay Your Bills, but that's all just spending money."
So our supporting arguments are answering "WHY don't we want to repeat achievements that we've already done once?" And the arguments against it are to answer "Why should we have to repeat achievements completed on other characters?"
And, some of us have given arguments on that. And most of the arguments against it are things that you could personally do even if it became account-wide. The people arguing against it simply don't want OTHERS to have a freedom.

TL;DR: For some of us (at least me), the exact point is that it barely affects you or the game balance, but it can greatly affect enjoyment and playstyle for those of us who care (mainly completionists, but others as well). Instead of focusing on arguing with the people fussing about extra stuff like skyshards being account-wide, try paying more attention to those of us willing to compromise and that DO give reasons why we want this change and either support us or let the thread die.

ClandestineFox wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

My lvl 3 lost Imperial child raised by Argonians has no right to the "cosmetic title" my noble and liniaged dunmer earned by killing all the generals that spawn at dolmens.

Or the cosmetic skins, mementos, pets, etc. that your dunmer also earned, but the child still has access.

The vast majority of cosmetics shared between alts are bought in the crown store using account based crowns. (And even then, the current memento system isn't exactly well implemented, just seems like it's what was easiest to do.) By that same token what about quests. Imagine only being able to do an alchemy writ once a day per account, not per character. Of course writ completion is also an achievement. So if you argue for the achievement to be account wide, why not the cool down? Somethings work better being left character based.

Quests provide more than cosmetics (i.e. gold, xp, items). There is no room for the comparison you made. This thread is a suggestion for cosmetics being account wide.

I've already said in this thread that I'm okay with titles not being account wide. I simply want achievements to be tracked by the account.

Artis wrote: »

@Sigtric @newtinmpls @ValkynSketha @Dubhliam @Hallothiel @lordrichter @Tavore1138 @Giles.floydub17_ESO and others if I forgot somebody.

Turns out the new update will have account-wide houses that will bring account-wide achievements and titles. Moreover, the system is such that houses are gated behind achievements (for example, DC manor behind the Hero of the Daggerfall Covenant) and it is possible that characters who didn't earn those houses can enter them. I know that of course none of you will use titles and houses on characters that haven't earned them and will make sure that every character will have a sum of gold needed to buy a house before that character can enter it.

However, I'd like to see a thread where either of you or preferrably all of you protest against such system. I mean, in this thread quite a few people are convinced that you are hypocrites and just want others to suffer for some reason. But now is a perfect opportunity for each of you to show your integrity. So I could I get a link to thread or specific comments, where you are arguing that houses and titles associated with owning manors shouldn't be account-wide?

If there's no such thread/comments yet, then maybe you didn't know, so here's the link to the patch notes: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/311708/pts-patch-notes-v2-7-0-homestead/p1

So you can create your thread(s) or comment now.

Please send links whenever you post your point of view on the issue.

Thank you.

That and this are two completely different things entirely. ZoS is creating account-wide housing that indirectly grants account-wide titles and achievements. Homestead was conceptually an account-wide thing. Armor dyes were conceptually an account-wide thing. One Tamriel allowing you to play your character in any alliance zone and do all of their quests with friends at any level was conceptually an account-AND-alliance-wide thing. . .

The reason people arguing against you in this thread isn't because we want you to suffer or do more or even that we care about you in any way shape or form. It's because you're asking for something that would conceptually change so many aspects of achievements as though it's some easy fix; like the new intern Paul McGreggor who just started working 2 days ago just has to open a config.txt file somewhere and change "Achievementunlock=character" to "Achievementunlock=account." But that isn't how it is, that would require resources and time for a change that quite frankly adds little to absolutely no impact on the game at all, EXCEPT that you guys would no longer be crying about it. And you know what? Let's say they do put the time and effort into it. What do you get out of it? What is it that you're actually trying to achieve by championing this cause of global achievements? Are you sad because you were out adventuring, and some new player walked by and saw someone next to you had a Master Angler title, and said, "YER NOT A MASTA ANGRLAr LIK DAT GUY?" and you couldn't flash your own Master Angler title and achievement right there on the spot? Like ffs short of the obvious (thread title) I have no idea what you're actually hoping to accomplish. The only argument any of you fools have put TOWARD it is like . . . "but . . . but mom I did it once before!" as if that in itself means anything other than you've done it before. It makes you sound entitled. THAT is why people are against you. You have to put forth actual reasoning when you say why you want something, instead of just "Well we didn't have this before so it's about time we have it now! Woo! Everyone bandwagon agree on me!" That's the sort of attitude that gets people to revolt against you even if you had good intent.

I'm thinking you've got this impression that everyone for 'account-wide achievements' in this thread are entitled little brats.

This is not such. I never said it would be an easy task to change. I know it would require work on the developers end and would likely change the system altogether. What's so wrong with that? It's simply not good the way it is.

I like to complete things. I like to see results. That's why I'm for this. In my original post, I used logic to explain why I think it should be done. It might not be logical to you but that's okay because this is a discussion.

This does require you to read a little bit before replying though. So please don't come here and say I only want this because "my mom did it once". That type of response is immature and it makes you look incompetent.

I also support account-bound, even though I don't find achievements very interesting. Part of the fun of MMOs is achieving something you work towards, and I, contrary to some, am of the view that I as a player rather than my characters achieve things in-game. I've always found it kinda lame that my progress is not acknowledged anymore when I switch characters.

This account vs. character debate is ultimately a matter of taste - people who are really into the indivuality of their characters, and those who aren't.

Since achievements have little influence on gameplay, I'm not too bothered by it, unlike some other characterbound mechanics...

petraeus1 wrote: »

I also support this, even though I don't find achievements very interesting. Part of the fun of MMOs is achieving something you work towards, and I, contrary to some, am of the view that I as a player rather than my characters achieve things in-game. I've always found it kinda lame that my progress is not acknowledged anymore when I switch characters.

This account vs. character debate is ultimately a matter of taste - people who are really into the indivuality of their characters, and those who aren't.

Since achievements have little influence on gameplay, I'm not too bothered by it, unlike some other characterbound mechanics...

This is really the best explanation

It just happened that the original achieves were designed to be tied to the characters and I happen to like that. Gives me more cookies when playing alts.

No.

AlnilamE wrote: »

But working on getting achievements completed on multiple characters is part of what makes having alts fun in this game. I don't really care about min/maxing and I take my time.

If I was no longer able to track achievements in the way I can now, that would indeed be very detrimental to my gaming experience. So if you want to track account-wide achievement from the character select screen, that is fine with me, but keep the individual achievements as they are now. Otherwise I will oppose it with everything I can.

The part about the "green hair" was more particularly about the rewards for the achievements, more specifically the titles, and was more directed toward the people that oppose the idea because "Why should character X get to use titles that character Y earned?"
Instead of trying support something that doesn't affect them much, or even (like you) having conditional agreement, they want to prevent EVERYONE from having an option, because they won't use it. Much like the person who doesn't like green hair, they can support the ability to use titles, but just not use "unearned" titles for their characters.

The whole thing was mainly toward the person I was quoting. In their post, they:
- talked about not caring about the people "in any way shape or form"
- called us fools and constantly talked down to us like we can't possibly have any idea what we're asking for
- Basically admitted that they argue simply because they feel that we're "entitled." Not because they honestly think it would be bad for the overall community or want to hear and understand us.

It's very possible that since I was directing my comments to that person and people who share their views, I wasn't clear about who was referring to, and I apologize. I can try to look at my post again and clear some stuff up (or add a note at the top) that explains that it's not for everyone.

I never intended it to mean anything toward the people looking for valid compromises. As long as this is a discussion on figuring out a system that everyone can agree to, and everyone is open to compromise, I feel like we can have an idea that a lot of the community can agree to, and have a good solid plan to suggest to ZOS, that won't give them much backlash and can help the community.
When someone else comes in and says "You want that, but I like this. Let's make a plan so that we both enjoy the game." I have great respect for them, I enjoy a discussion or debate, and I'm happy to compromise. It's the people that say "You want that, but I like this. So, you're stupid and entitled, and should just suck it up" that make me mad.

I'm about to head out for a bit, but when I get back on, I'll make sure to edit the old post and clarify.

Dubhliam wrote: »

Don't make achievements account wide.

The solution would be to make a "hard" achievement progress that tracks character progress followed by a "account" progress that accumulates all achievements from all characters.
Then, make achievement links have individual character and time details.

Something like this:

I like that idea a lot.

Waseem wrote: »

yeah achievements needs to be account wide.. if you earned that here, you earned it and thats it, you got it. no need to rinse and repeat it.. take emperorhip/master angler/tamriel hero.. earning those achievements require a huge ammount of time investment, why to do it again?

Because you want to? Like, I have the General Executioner on 2 characters, working on a third. So she's the one I take out when I'm focusing on dolmens.

I have Treasure Hunter (loot 1000 chests) on 3 characters, so moving on to the others.

I got Master Angler on my Nightblade. She still needs some fish in the DLC zones, but once she's done that, if I go fishing, it will NOT be on her.

If they have to put in account-wide achievements, they need to make it a completely separate section from where the achievements currently are on a character (ie, character select menu). Otherwise, if you want to know at a glance which dungeons you are missing on a character, for example, you will have to hover over everything.