i'd be ok with strife nerf if they gave us a bone, like a better path of darkness, a reduce cost to concealed weapons, or an instant reapply for grim focus, but all they really did was beating on a dead horse

My thoughts about each nightblade skill in the game

Assasination:
Killers blade/ Impale need to offer something as class specific execute.
Let killers blade scale up to 450% extra damage under 25% to help PvE dps
Impale should mark the target with a sign of sithis which deals additional damage when the 3rd sign is applied

Ambush/ Lotusfan are fine

Double Take
Change this skill completely to deal damage on use and an explosion after 4 seconds that deals 30% of the damage dealt during the duration.
Mirage
This skill still deals damage upfront but applies major lifesteal to every enemy around you in a 5m radius healing you for 1.5k health when you hit them

Both morphs cost magicka but scale with your highest stats

Reaping Mark/ Piercing Mark
Let us use them on multiple targets other than that fine for their special use

Merciless Focus / Relentless Focus
Increase the duration to 30 seconds and increase
the cost by 15% and the hits needed for bow to 6 but
Every direct damage counts for it and you can fire the bow everytime you deal 6x direct damage during the duration.

Incap/ Soul Strike
Nerf the damage of incap by 5% and the 20% damage boost occures 3 seconds after the initial hit to lower the overall burst

Shadow
Cloak: just fix it and i'm fine
Concealed Weapon: Your light/ heavy attacks scale with your higher stats while this ability is on your bar
SA is fine

Twisting Path/ Restoring Path
Increase the damage of both skills by 8%

Fear/Aspect of Terror
Fear is fine very good but fine
Make Aspect of Terror an instant range fear for 1 person with a range of 18m

Shade just remove the implemented aggro and make it useable without a target.

Bolstering Darkness/ Veil of blade
Give both of them damage capabilities but make Veil of blades deal physical damage and gets a new synergy called blades of darkness which increase the damage of VoB and gives up to 4 group members minor slayer
while Bolstering Darkness deals magic damage along with the known synergy


Siphoning:
Strife revert the changes and increase damage by 12% and cost by 8%
Agony get rid of that stupid break on damage CC and increase the damage for both skills by 15% while Prolonged Suffering deals poison damage
Malefic Wrath deals its full additional damage after 5 seconds of stun

Crippling Grasp/ Debilitate
CG is fine and one of the best DoTs in the game
Debilitate could deal less disease damage over 5 seconds

Siphoning Strikes are fine

Drain Power is fine

Soul Tether is pretty good but i'd like to see a 1second longer duration

Soul Siphon should be either have a much longer duration or should have its cost reduced to 100 Ultimate

This is my opinion and my opinion only it is totally okay that you have an other opinion so please consider this before ripping this post apart

cpuScientist wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Hopefully ZOS checks out this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/311927/strife-increased-the-cost-of-this-ability-and-its-morphs-by-approximately-38/p1


Basically, Strife's main appeal is that it was dirt cheap. It didn't really have much else going for it, and even with it's dirt cheap cost it was still getting replaced by Force Pulse for most endgame PVE content. Next patch, Force Pulse/Crushing Shock will offer more damage (in addition to being a damage type that procs sets Strife can't like Ilambris, Burning Spellweave, and Winterborn) and more utility than Strife for a negligible cost increase. There's really not much reason to run Strife at this point. Hopefully the cost increase to Strife can be looked at again.


On the topic of spammables, can we talk about Concealed Weapon for a second? It's a very expensive skill with a very short range with less damage than it's stamina counterpart, Surprise Attack, and with similar magicka skills like Force Pulse. Can we see it's cost get a decrease, and/or it's secondary effect replaced with something more offensive? Seriously, the only players I know that use Concealed Weapon with good results in PVP are stamina NB gankers using the extra stealth speed to get into position more quickly. When the magicka morph of a skill is more popular with stamina builds than it is with magicka builds, something is wrong.


Also, can we talk about Grim Focus/Merciless Resolve? It's just so clunky to use. It procs on four light/heavy attacks, but if the light/heavy attack is dodged it doesn't count, everybody runs Major Evasion in PVP these days and it's VERY difficult to tell when one of your light attacks gets dodged in the middle of a fight, so you can often find yourself going to use your Assassin's Will only for it not to be procced. Can we make it proc off of something like 4 direct damage attacks, or on a timer (something like 4-6 seconds)? It would help proc Assassin's Will more reliably, and would make it easier for melee magic NBs to proc it. Also, why do we have to reapply Merciless Resolve to proc Assassin's Will again? Assassin's Will's damage is on par with Crystal Fragments, yet Crystal Fragments can be feasibly procced every few seconds (and has a huge visual cue with the glowing hands to let you know when it's procced, something that Assassin's Will really needs) while you might be able to get off two Assassin's Will procs every 10-15 seconds.


Finally, can we take a look at Impale? It doesn't have the range of Radiant Destruction (nor does it have the ability to go through dodge and reflect), it doesn't start scaling up in damage when the target is at 40-50% max health like the Reverse Slice, and it doesn't have an automatic execute proc like Endless Fury and it's Explosion proc. Can we give it one of these things? By the time I get a player down to 25% health, realize he's within execute range, and then hit my Impale button, that player has likely already blocked, dodged, and/or healed out of my execute range. Even when you cancel the Impale animation by immediately blocking after you cast it, it still doesn't land in time to do execute damage. It seems so weird that the assassin class has the worst execute in the game (and that the paladin class has the best execute, but that's a discussion for another day), can we get some love?

This exactly are the problems with the class. However in addition to all of this. I am happy to see that the shades look pretty now. However they are bugged. Was that changed at all? They take group buffs, meaning the magblade that synergizes really well with necropotence and max Magicka can't use that set in a trial setting.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Is there a fix for this or is it known to you?
Also everything the guy I quoted needs to be looked at.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and everyone else.

Apparently it works perfectly, the pets (tested with a sorc aswell) does take buffs HOWEVER it does not steal it from players, it is prioritized after players always. So SPC or minor berserk goes on the pet IF less than 6 people are there (the cap for healing springs and combat prayer) if more are there like in a raid. It is fine! They never take the buff. Gotta say that's amazing that you all have it this way. Was not expecting this. Which means necropotence for me!

Revert increased cost of strife or mirror the increase cost with increase damage / heal - despite the magickasteal ability giving 400 magicka back, the increase is too much without some balance to the damage.

as people have said before, please allow a recast upon using the merciless resolve/relentless focus proc.

but I'd also like to propose that a simple light attack counter is added on top of merciless resolve on your ability bar. it gets rather easy to lose count of how many successful light attacks I've done when my light attacks just get dodged or my light attack didnt even fire off because weaving with swallow soul is kinda messed up.

I have no idea what Zenimax' understanding of a "balance-patch" or an "improvement" might be, but seriously, the current changes in the current patch notes can't be meant.

If your intent was to lower PvP burst damage while not nerfing PvE dps (especially magicka DD PvE dps and extra especially magicka NB DD PvE dps) your patch is an utter fail.

-The warhorn and the beast trap nerf will especially hurt NBs, (and templars, stamina and magicka builds) because they heavily rely on crit and crit damage modifiers (look at the passives).
-The same applies to Proc sets that will no longer crit. If we are already on that topic...still no viable new monster set suited for a PvE magicka NB which provides a proc suited to trigger with NB skills and with a viable 1-piece-bonus ? Small hint...1k health on Valkyn is not...I could wear Grothdarr and go melee, but then I want to deliver the same dps as a melee class in general.
-The nerf of Strife is utter sad, but not just because for dps in vMA, but for NB tanks too. In vMA I don't die because of lacking agility, I die because of running out of ressources. It was a great tool for tanks to get ressources in combination with Siphoning Attacks. Magicka NBs are already so far behind when it comes to PvE dps, that no magicka NB in PvE uses Strife für serious dpsing. The most I know already use Force Pulse + Scathing Mage or BSW.
-I assume Shadows still leech SPC buffs, because I read nothing about that topic in the notes.
-Path is still a very underwhelming DoT which does far too less dps for the magicka costs.
-I will wait for tests, but I already assume that the Grim Focus and Assassin's Will changes result in a dps nerf for that ability.
-WTF were you thinking about the magicka changes for sustain (pointed not just for NBs but for every magicka DD class)? Your changes to Drain and Soul Siphon now result in the fact, that you just halved the available magicka reg for all magicka DDs in a group/raid, because Drain and Siphon now deliver the same debuff so they can't stack anymore. This results in a reg of just 400 magicka per event. I wonder if the expensive Force Pulse will still deliver more because of it's nature that one skill execution = 3 events to proc drain, but I am wary how the change will go out, because if an event will in theory deliver just one sort of debuff and according to the mechanics it should not stack multiple times. There comes the question to my mind, what the intent of a set like Molag Kena might be after this patch ? It was already hard to sustain now, but it will be pointless after the change. Ok, my healer might wear a piece for the 1-set-bonus....

Where to the hell comes this biased opinion that magicka sustain is overpowered in PvE especially after already upping the costs in one of the last patches ?

My conclusion after reading this patch and especially about the magicka sustain, crit damage nerf and "froststaff tanking" stuff:

-If this goes live my ESOplus is cancelled.
-If this goes live I will avoid the LFG tool for PUGs like plague.
-If this goes live my guild might stop training the second boss in vMoL

This is a blatant nerf for PvE and I have no idea why.

Have to ask ZOS:

Where's the improvements you state in the caption?

Where are the balance improvements? The only balance thing is strife cost increase. Nobody's gonna use that fear morph still.

MagNB are really lackluster.
I cant really comment on the pvp part as i have given up magblade there long ago already but i have played it in trials since release of thieves guild dlc.

Since I can remember magblades only where in trial groups for the weapon crit and to make it easier for the healer. Noone ever took NBs bc of their damage.
Now with stamina erased from leaderboard run mostly and everybody running shields nobody needs NBs anymore. Their old niche is extinct.

They have 2 class spammables that are outclassed by forcepulse and nobody will give nb a precious melee spot that could be filled with a dk or templar that do far better dps.

Path hits for half the damage of every other ground aoe thats in use right now (liquid lightning, blockade, eruption).

Cripple is an okay dot maybe a little damage increase but thats really low on the priority list for magblades. Give the 2nd morph that nobody uses to stamina so they finally can also have smth going for them in pve dps.

Merciless Resolve is really clunky to use and we shouldnt be forced to use it twice making it barely worth it over 1 force pulse. Dont get me wrong its a really strong ability for burst but the way it works now is just not really efficient. Idk how to change it to be more reliable in pvp but a start would be to remove the needed 2nd recast to get a new proc.

Give smth else to concealed weapon morph thats more offensive and either up the damage or reduce the cost. Atm this skill is worthless for everybody thats not a stam ganker and just happens to have a free slot to move faster in stealth.

Either revert the strife change or give it a damage buff so it maybe is worth using over forcepulse again in pve. It most likely still wont bc you want your burning spellweave to proc but well who knows if we can find a better set to get funnel back in the game. Also fix the animation from this ability. Its extremely hard to weave which was also a point of not using it bc you often couldn't reliably proc merciless resolve with that instead of forcepulse.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Some ideas to "fix" magicka Nightblades since the Devs seem to be oblivious to their viability in end-game content.

1. Keep the cost increase of strife, but reduce the animation time by 40%.
2. Change Impale/Killer's blade to scale similar to Radiant Destruction. NOT on resources remaining but with up to 250-300% increased damage at low health.
3. Fix the issue with refreshing/lingering path and change it to a DoT.
4. Change Grim Focus and its morphs to proc every 4 Light/Heavy attacks for the duration of the buff, meaning we only need apply it when the actual buff runs out. Can change it to say 12 seconds from 20 seconds for the buff duration.
5. DON'T touch Siphoning attacks. For the love of the Nine please don't.
6. Provide Concealed Weapon with the Empower buff but remove its movement speed bonus.
7. Crippling Grasp - increase this abilities DoT by 10% and make the projectile apply its effect instantly.
8. Power Extraction - Provide a small HoT to this morph since it's useless with the block cost changes

This should allow Nightblades to be viable in end game content as DPS while giving some extra benefits for PvP without being too OP.

So right now with the increase, my force pulse costs 1965 and my funnel costs 1358, it is still cheaper by a margin sure. But magicksteal now just brings it back to the 900 something it used to be... Yay no benefit to to us from that skill whatsoever.

Siphoning attacks is a strong sustain tool, HOWEVER!!! it does not provide any kind of DPS bonus to us, so in trials that's basically dropped for DPS and hope your healers can sustain you, and they could before with the use of eledrain, siphoning and orbs. See they could stack and each gave you more than 400... Now does that magicksteal scale up past 160 and give more than that with say CP or can it CRIT? anything or is it fixed solely at 400 which is LESS that any of the 2 we had before. The magickasteal will if a Templar is in the group be amazing in AOE, unless you can only get 1 a second globally or is it one person enemy?

I guess the point is we need to have more recovery built in now but the recovery on jewelry is quite weak and the weapon glyphs to deal magic damage and steal magicka are also astoundingly weak. Whereas the spell damage glyphs are strong. No sets come with recovery either.....

One thing i keep seeing is that this model of discussion is flawed...

why does strife need a nerf you ask? Why not give it more damage if the cost goes up?

Well they did but not under the nightblade topic, right?

because it just got an 8% boost to damage and healing from staves.

i see the changes to staves as a major impact to any magica attack skill that helps tpo keep in perspective other changes.

It feels like big picture they did several things at once:
they gave magica an 8% buff to part of their base attack schemes by the staff changes
they have also then dialed back in some classes or most classes the some "always use and often spam"
it seems some cases they wont put the dial backs in and so these get a defacto buff in some areas.

Those ingredients all cometogether to make a recipe thats not crazy talk when it comes to closing the balance gaps.

Now, a good rtecipe is fine and all but if the ingredients arent right and dont work well the end product may still taste bad and no matter what no recipe will be tasty for everyone... so...

So the idea of a "talk about nightblade changes" kinda steers us to talking about the strife changes AS IF there wasn't the 8% uptick in damage and heal.

So to those opposed to the change looked at in isolation: What should have been done to strife given its gain of 8% in damage (and thus the follow-up heals)?

For me, every magica nightblade i have runs strife/morphs and uses them in combat because of the ongoing heal. its a valuable part of the mixture esp for solo content rotation. i may spam force pulse more in the rotation for some but strife is a go-to every rotation.

Now, i can see where the HOT aspect could be less significant or trivial for well grouped content but frankly thats not the whole of the game.

Do most magica nightblades not slot strife/morphs for solo content?

STEVIL wrote: »

One thing i keep seeing is that this model of discussion is flawed...

why does strife need a nerf you ask? Why not give it more damage if the cost goes up?

Well they did but not under the nightblade topic, right?

because it just got an 8% boost to damage and healing from staves.

i see the changes to staves as a major impact to any magica attack skill that helps tpo keep in perspective other changes.

It feels like big picture they did several things at once:
they gave magica an 8% buff to part of their base attack schemes by the staff changes
they have also then dialed back in some classes or most classes the some "always use and often spam"
it seems some cases they wont put the dial backs in and so these get a defacto buff in some areas.

Those ingredients all cometogether to make a recipe thats not crazy talk when it comes to closing the balance gaps.

Now, a good rtecipe is fine and all but if the ingredients arent right and dont work well the end product may still taste bad and no matter what no recipe will be tasty for everyone... so...

So the idea of a "talk about nightblade changes" kinda steers us to talking about the strife changes AS IF there wasn't the 8% uptick in damage and heal.

So to those opposed to the change looked at in isolation: What should have been done to strife given its gain of 8% in damage (and thus the follow-up heals)?

For me, every magica nightblade i have runs strife/morphs and uses them in combat because of the ongoing heal. its a valuable part of the mixture esp for solo content rotation. i may spam force pulse more in the rotation for some but strife is a go-to every rotation.

Now, i can see where the HOT aspect could be less significant or trivial for well grouped content but frankly thats not the whole of the game.

Do most magica nightblades not slot strife/morphs for solo content?

I only slot strife. I refuse to use sorcbeam on a magblade. I have a sorc if I wanna see that tired animation.

But @STEVIL what is this boost they are getting?

Put funnel back to healing two again and boost damage 10 percent for swallow soul then the cost increase seems justified.

My thoughts on Magicka NB for PTS and current One Tamriel Live. I played my Magicka NB a lot between 1.6 and One Tamriel, and I played him longest last night on PTS doing duels.

First impression
The change to the cost of strife is insignificant in application, and for such a high damaging ability it probably shouldn't be as cheap as it is. Builds relying on the super low cost of it will definitely be hurting. On PTS in duels I could no longer sustain my magicka in heavy seducer fighting the worst of the worst heavy stam proc builds, especially if fasalla was used. Builds I'd have no issue fighting against on the live server with my current setup, the biggest cost is shields and I could always rest easy knowing that my damage spam was cheap to not hurt my sustain.

I scrapped my heavy seducer and threw on some light armor, switched some of my CP around. I changed my mundus around, switched food buff to include regen, changed to dampen magicka for a bigger shield. Aside from a change in shield morph, I changed one other skill to help compensate for lower resistances in crazy fights. But my skill bar looks almost identical to what it is on live.

The end result is that I gained a lot more damage, increased my base regen (cost reduction is comparable) thus increasing my sustain. My shield-based defense increased while my resistance naturally lowered in LA, but casting less shield is nice on my resources. The cost increase to strife became irrelevant for many reasons, and I'm enjoying the extra damage I can do.

Magicka NB is mostly fine
Magicka NB is still perfectly fine for the most part in PvP when it comes to 1v1 situations. I'm sure open world performance will vary depending on build and circumstance, but no PTS testing will accurately determine that. I have no issues PvPing open world on live with my magnb either alone or in a duo or small group when heavily outnumbered.

By comparison stamplar feels extremely underwhelming compared to magnb in every way and more.

---

Swallow soul vs force pulse
Swallow soul on a destro staff is still in my eyes better than force pulse. The cost is still much less and the damage is very close, not to mention your healing increases with swallow soul, among other benefits. Force pulse can't be reflected anymore, but it was already easy to deal with wings as magnb.

Concealed weapon vs strife
Other little issues that I have with the class is that concealed weapon is pretty underwhelming compared to swallow soul. The cost of concealed weapon is still higher than strife, and limited in range with not many extra benefits.

Soul harvest is underwhelming
Soul harvest as an individual ultimate is underwhelming in application, especially when you can just save up ultimate for EoTS and get off a good burst combo. In most duels vs anyone magicka or stamina, I'm doing strong enough damage without my ultimate. Soul harvest just doesn't do enough damage, and you can cast merciless resolve and swallow soul during the run-time of EoTS for better damage.

The trap morph of fear is still inferior to mass hysteria
The trap morph of fear needs some serious creativity put into it, no reason to drop mass hysteria. Not much really needs to be said otherwise, it's just not good.

Mirage
This morph could use a little bit of a buff (not to evasion, but to the defense granted by the buff) to make it worth slotting over either the other morph or just another skill. Major evasion was nerfed by 5% which doesn't make a huge difference in application. Still worth using in a 1v1 scenario but pretty lackluster in open world pvp, at least from my builds perspective.