Strife: Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 38%.

Lifecode666

What?
Why?

Isn't this the same as saying wrecking blow wil now cost 38% more, or puncture,crystal fragments, snipe or all mainskills.

Cinbri

Because for example in duels magblades don't have any sustain problems with magicka as main spammable skill is most cheapest, tho 38% nerf is overkill.

Sigma957

Well with 100 points in cost reduction strife was only 896 cost so plus the 38% is around 1,236 or so it will be.

arkansas_ESO

Cinbri wrote: »

Because for example in duels magblades don't have any sustain problems with magicka as main spammable skill is most cheapest, tho 38% nerf is overkill.

You're not just using strife though, you're still casting buffs and reapplying your very expensive annulment. In 5 light with 2k regeneration I still had to use resto heavies often on my nb. As for PVE, mag NBs already run force pulse instead of strife for damage, the only thing strife really had going for it was it's low cost.

FoolishHuman

Cinbri wrote: »

Because for example in duels magblades don't have any sustain problems with magicka as main spammable skill is most cheapest, tho 38% nerf is overkill.

Please, duels. You mean basically removing this skill from Nightblades is justified because of duels? Will that be the benchmark for balancing this game in the future?

WuffyCerulei

I wasn't a huge fan of this till some vet players (meaning they've been playing ESO way more than me) explained that Strife and morphs were fairly cheap and did a fair amount of damage. I never really paid attention to costs since I usually just keep my magicka maintained.

Cinbri

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Because for example in duels magblades don't have any sustain problems with magicka as main spammable skill is most cheapest, tho 38% nerf is overkill.

You're not just using strife though, you're still casting buffs and reapplying your very expensive annulment. In 5 light with 2k regeneration I still had to use resto heavies often on my nb. As for PVE, mag NBs already run force pulse instead of strife for damage, the only thing strife really had going for it was it's low cost.

And? As tempalr i forced to use BoL and tons of other heals because Sweeps alone won't heal me even against one target. This doesnt change fact that ability most cheapest with good enough potential. Default Sweeps 2952, WB 3240, Crystal Shards 4050, Strife - 1367 <-- see difference?

f047ys3v3n

Cinbri wrote: »

And? As tempalr i forced to use BoL and tons of other heals because Sweeps alone won't heal me even against one target. This doesnt change fact that ability most cheapest with good enough potential. Default Sweeps 2952, Strife - 1367 <-- see difference?

This is the sort of one dimensional reasoning that resulted in this change. Funnel Health was clearly under priced relative to any other heal or dps skill and yet mNB's were also the lowest dps in raids. This is because NB's only have one class DOT in cripple that did enough damage to be worth slotting, they had a week execute, gear sets did not proc well from their odd combination of damage types, and champ points don't as well help their relative balance of attack dot and skill damage. Templars had 2 dot's and, probably even after the new nerf, the best execute. Their dps was far better. Basically NB's were very much propped up by the low cost of funnel and could basically without any resource support because of it. This partially ameliorated the relatively low damage of funnel and otherwise lacking class dps DOT's, passives, and ultimates.

Also, comparing anything to BoL is unfair. BoL has been nerfed so many times it is terrible and if you are using it..... well you should find a way to not use it. Cast harness magica and use your sweeps to heal under that. Healing under a shield with HOT's is the basic method of health maintenance for magica builds and this was the case with mNB's as well because, in most situations, funnel healed less than puncturing sweeps as it hit only one enemy. BoL is a crap skill though it was once the heart of the Templar class just as Funnel will now be a crap skill though it was the heart of the NB class. The difference is, take a way funnel and you are left with very little.

I say all this but I still don't thing mTemplar will be in a very good place post patch. It will be better than mNB though. mNB is dead. Bottom line, they nerfed the lowest dps load out by removing their most used skill because it was too good while ignoring all the crap ones that made it the lowest dps load out. Dead is what it is now.

Cinbri

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

And? As tempalr i forced to use BoL and tons of other heals because Sweeps alone won't heal me even against one target. This doesnt change fact that ability most cheapest with good enough potential. Default Sweeps 2952, Strife - 1367 <-- see difference?

This is the sort of one dimensional reasoning that resulted in this change. Funnel Health was clearly under priced relative to any other heal or dps skill and yet mNB's were also the lowest dps in raids. This is because NB's only have one class DOT in cripple that did enough damage to be worth slotting, they had a week execute, gear sets did not proc well from their odd combination of damage types, and champ points don't as well help their relative balance of attack dot and skill damage. Templars had 2 dot's and, probably even after the new nerf, the best execute. Their dps was far better. Basically NB's were very much propped up by the low cost of funnel and could basically without any resource support because of it. This partially ameliorated the relatively low damage of funnel and otherwise lacking class dps DOT's, passives, and ultimates.

Also, comparing anything to BoL is unfair. BoL has been nerfed so many times it is terrible and if you are using it..... well you should find a way to not use it. Cast harness magica and use your sweeps to heal under that. Healing under a shield with HOT's is the basic method of health maintenance for magica builds and this was the case with mNB's as well because, in most situations, funnel healed less than puncturing sweeps as it hit only one enemy. BoL is a crap skill though it was once the heart of the Templar class just as Funnel will now be a crap skill though it was the heart of the NB class. The difference is, take a way funnel and you are left with very little.

I say all this but I still don't thing mTemplar will be in a very good place post patch. It will be better than mNB though. mNB is dead. Bottom line, they nerfed the lowest dps load out by removing their most used skill because it was too good while ignoring all the crap ones that made it the lowest dps load out. Dead is what it is now.

This is just subjective theorycrafting. I gave you objective numbers, you can go on any eso-wiki site and compare any skills OP mentioned in his very first post and check cost-utility. For this exact reason templar's Blazing Spear won't stun enemies on use anymore.

FoolishHuman wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Because for example in duels magblades don't have any sustain problems with magicka as main spammable skill is most cheapest, tho 38% nerf is overkill.

Please, duels. You mean basically removing this skill from Nightblades is justified because of duels? Will that be the benchmark for balancing this game in the future?

There is word "example" in my post and it have meaning... #because reading too hard nowdays

Edziu

Cinbri wrote: »

Because for example in duels magblades don't have any sustain problems with magicka as main spammable skill is most cheapest, tho 38% nerf is overkill.

do you ever seen how like wet noodle is hitting this funnel health? maybe had low cost, have nice healing support but damage by this is comparable like to dk flame leash, without few class dots its just crap with damage as single skill

Cinbri

Edziu wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Because for example in duels magblades don't have any sustain problems with magicka as main spammable skill is most cheapest, tho 38% nerf is overkill.

do you ever seen how like wet noodle is hitting this funnel health? maybe had low cost, have nice healing support but damage by this is comparable like to dk flame leash, without few class dots its just crap with damage as single skill

And probably for that reason it still will be most cheapest spammable dps ability of 4 classes, but as i said 38% increase cost is too big, it should be lowered at least.

FoolishHuman

Cinbri wrote: »

There is word "example" in my post and it have meaning... #because reading too hard nowdays

What other example is there? All NB damage dealers are using Force Pulse, which is already now better for damage, noone uses strife or the morphs except healers and tanks.

Cinbri

FoolishHuman wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

There is word "example" in my post and it have meaning... #because reading too hard nowdays

What other example is there? All NB damage dealers are using Force Pulse, which is already now better for damage, noone uses strife or the morphs except healers and tanks.

Asking for example while providing example by yourself. And stop pretend that skill will cease from existent because it's cost stop being irrelevant.. Better stop right here, dude.

HuawaSepp

38% more costs and 38℅ more dmg and everything would be fine.
Even why was the skill nerfed to not double dip from crit if it douple dips from cyro debuffs...

Cinbri

HuawaSepp wrote: »

38% more costs and 38℅ more dmg and everything would be fine.
Even why was the skill nerfed to not double dip from crit if it douple dips from cyro debuffs...

Because it not double dip from cyro debuffs for more than half a year already.

HuawaSepp

Cinbri wrote: »

HuawaSepp wrote: »

38% more costs and 38℅ more dmg and everything would be fine.
Even why was the skill nerfed to not double dip from crit if it douple dips from cyro debuffs...

Because it not double dip from cyro debuffs for more than half a year already.

Well, good to know. Then the heal is just very crapy.
You can't even wear heavy armor cause you need healing ward spam for survival.
By dueling a mag dk for 12min i saw how impossible it is to win against him.
Heavy armor + good sustain + good heals, no need for shields + reflecting my attacks, so i can't try to burst him.
Well and against stam dds there is just no possibility to survive.

In case of PVE as by far the lowest dps i think there is no need for discussion.
The best lorkaj run on eu was just with templars sorcs and dks...

arkansas_ESO

Cinbri wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Because for example in duels magblades don't have any sustain problems with magicka as main spammable skill is most cheapest, tho 38% nerf is overkill.

You're not just using strife though, you're still casting buffs and reapplying your very expensive annulment. In 5 light with 2k regeneration I still had to use resto heavies often on my nb. As for PVE, mag NBs already run force pulse instead of strife for damage, the only thing strife really had going for it was it's low cost.

And? As tempalr i forced to use BoL and tons of other heals because Sweeps alone won't heal me even against one target. This doesnt change fact that ability most cheapest with good enough potential. Default Sweeps 2952, WB 3240, Crystal Shards 4050, Strife - 1367 <-- see difference?

Swallow Soul does not have the Empower from Wrecking Blow, the AOE from Sweeps, or the damage of Crystal Fragments. I'm not sure why Strife should have a similar cost to these skills when it doesn't have the same damage potential as them.

Brrrofski

Thing is, magica NB is bottom two in PvP currently along with stamplar.

It's pretty low down in PvE DPS too.

Why did it need ANY nerfs? Why decide when it's at it's lowest, that it's a good time to nerf it further?

Also no mention on merciless resolve being fixed so it actually procs the spectral bow reliably. Absolute joke.

Reorx_Holybeard

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Because for example in duels magblades don't have any sustain problems with magicka as main spammable skill is most cheapest, tho 38% nerf is overkill.

You're not just using strife though, you're still casting buffs and reapplying your very expensive annulment. In 5 light with 2k regeneration I still had to use resto heavies often on my nb. As for PVE, mag NBs already run force pulse instead of strife for damage, the only thing strife really had going for it was it's low cost.

And? As tempalr i forced to use BoL and tons of other heals because Sweeps alone won't heal me even against one target. This doesnt change fact that ability most cheapest with good enough potential. Default Sweeps 2952, WB 3240, Crystal Shards 4050, Strife - 1367 <-- see difference?

Swallow Soul does not have the Empower from Wrecking Blow, the AOE from Sweeps, or the damage of Crystal Fragments. I'm not sure why Strife should have a similar cost to these skills when it doesn't have the same damage potential as them.

But it still doesn't. With the 38% cost increase it only has a base cost of 1886 Magicka which is is significantly cheaper than other Magicka spammables. Frankly I'm surprised it took them this long to increase its cost...

Cronopoly

38% What The #$%! This must have been the Biggest Problem ESO faces. Yet Destro Ulti...nvm.

Waiting for PTS so i can test my SAP tank to see if she is gutted... Siphoning is my bread and butter for regen. I'd hate to put more into resources as my damage is ridiculously low as is. I'd like to help the group out a little in dungeons...(while agro is my main concern of course) but still.

Rex-Umbra

Pretty pissed as a Magicka Tank, Magicka was hard to get back as it was because S/B heavy attacks did not give you Magicka though Ill try switching from Sword and Board to Frost staff to help with sustain.

leepalmer95

Concealed will only cost like 200-250 more now for 20%~ increase damage.

Force pulse will cost a bit more but now can't be reflected.

ssewallb14_ESO

This happens every patch. Changing things that aren't broken, aren't imbalanced, and no one wanted. See engine guardian nerf for another example.

kojou

The cost increase should have come with a damage buff, or have it heal 2 allies again. The last few people that were running funnel will stop now...

Sugaroverdose

Cinbri wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Because for example in duels magblades don't have any sustain problems with magicka as main spammable skill is most cheapest, tho 38% nerf is overkill.

You're not just using strife though, you're still casting buffs and reapplying your very expensive annulment. In 5 light with 2k regeneration I still had to use resto heavies often on my nb. As for PVE, mag NBs already run force pulse instead of strife for damage, the only thing strife really had going for it was it's low cost.

And? As tempalr i forced to use BoL and tons of other heals because Sweeps alone won't heal me even against one target. This doesnt change fact that ability most cheapest with good enough potential. Default Sweeps 2952, WB 3240, Crystal Shards 4050, Strife - 1367 <-- see difference?

1 cast to heal 15k, soo undepowered

Toc de Malsvi

Strife was over-performing incredibly. It is reasonable to ask why some other changes were not made to balance this. However Strife was way to cheap for the amount of damage and healing it gave. Just comparing it to Concealed Weapon is very revealing as to its power.


Skill: - - - - - - - - - - Strife: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Concealed Weapon:
Cost: - - - - - - - - - -1367 base - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 2700 base
Damage: - - - - - - - 740 base - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -822 base
Healing: - - - - - - - -(925) - 25%x5ticks(10s) - - - -0
Range: - - - - - - - - - 28m - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -5m
Utility: - - - - - - - - - healing/ranged dmg - - - - - - - Stun if attacking from stealth, 25% movement speed while stealthed


To summarize Strife costs 51% of Concealed Weapon, yet deals 90% of the damage, heals for more than the damage it causes, and has 560% of the range of Concealed Weapon. Strife gives up the ability to stun from stealth... that is it.

It was massively better and due for a cost increase, increasing the damage of the skill wouldn't balance it only make it the best skill in the entire game.

NB's are on the bottom of the DPS tier, and they could use some love there possibly. Buffing Strife's damage is not the answer. NB's have the most utility and any strong buff to their damage would likely put them over the top.

xXSilverDragonXx

ZOS hates magicka toons. They live in dragon age where mages are evil and must not be allowed to roam the world. They are slowly taking our power away so that we will be no danger to anyone. Yep. I'm calling it. Soon we'll be required to report to the mages circle, not the mages guild, where our toons will be put on lockdown and forced to roam the fade for all eternity if we want any kind of actual activity in this game.

Khaos_Bane

FoolishHuman wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Because for example in duels magblades don't have any sustain problems with magicka as main spammable skill is most cheapest, tho 38% nerf is overkill.

Please, duels. You mean basically removing this skill from Nightblades is justified because of duels? Will that be the benchmark for balancing this game in the future?

Probably that and PvP, yeah.

Toc de Malsvi

Magicka characters dominate top end game PVE.

Magicka got an 8% increase across the board with Destro staff changes.

Magicka gets a staff that removes pressure from their stamina pool in PVP by allowing them to block using Magicka and increases the amount blocked and decreases the cost to block.

Magicka has most powerful AOE burst ultimate in the game that is currently being abused in PVP, and it received a 5% nerf, but then an 8% buff if you are using a Lighting staff including another 8% when you proc concussed on players.

Oh yeah, ZOS hates Magicka...uhuh...

MythicEmperor

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

FoolishHuman wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Because for example in duels magblades don't have any sustain problems with magicka as main spammable skill is most cheapest, tho 38% nerf is overkill.

Please, duels. You mean basically removing this skill from Nightblades is justified because of duels? Will that be the benchmark for balancing this game in the future?

Probably that and PvP, yeah.

Dueling is a terrible thing to base game balance upon. It is meant purely for testing builds against one another and was never intended to be a platform for game balance. PvE has always been the primary focus of most MMO's and should remain the standard of balance across all skills. That being said, playing a magblade, as it currently stands in trials and vet pledges, is ESO's equivalent of shooting yourself in the foot before a footrace.

xXSilverDragonXx

Honestly thought it is still on the cheap side. It does damage and heals. While I still think ZOS hates magicka and wants to nerf us into the ground, this might look like a big hit but when I looked at the actual numbers, it wasn't bad because unlike other skills that heal this one does do damage as well. So it is more bang for you cost. Sort of like the templars puncturing sweeps. They give you heals and do damage. They aren't dirt cheap but they have double utility. I think they are on par with that now. Actually they might cost less still. And templars don't get to be ranged. This is a ranged skill for NB. I can use it without ever getting anywhere near the target IIRC. Sweeps you have to be pretty close, often in most bosses damage range if they are melee.