Scale Everyone to Max CP on CP Campaigns

AzuraKin · December 2016

LeifErickson wrote: »

Everyone should be given 561 cp when they enter a cp campaign as that would make things more balanced and fair. It would also lower the barrier of entry to this game in general as if I had to grind that many cp just to be competitive I probably wouldn't play the game.

Oh and add this to dueling as well or give the option for no cp dueling.

no, in fact they should return back to pre 1t in pve, and take away all lvl scaling both in pve and pvp.

Sugaroverdose · December 2016

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Agreed, this game is too dependent on grind for competitive PvP. A little bit of progression is okay and probably necessary, but the CP gap is ridiculous.

Time played should = more skill, not better stats just because.

current CP hangup system made grind easier than ever and it's account-wide, you only need to level it once.
Maybe gear and tempers should be free?

antihero727 · December 2016

This whole I am entitled to it even though I didn't put the work or time into it attitude is crap. I personally put the time & energy into my grind and with the changes in the last few patches the grind is far less. If you don't have max CP go to Azuras, get grinding, or get dead. ZOS you have catered to the entitlement of lazy players for to long please don't give in again as it undermines my hard work & time even more than you have already. My first toon took 2 months to get to max. Now you can fast grind in under 10hr. When does it become easy enough for all noobs to shut their complaint box?

LeifErickson · December 2016

antihero727 wrote: »

When does it become easy enough for all noobs to shut their complaint box?

Are you saying I am a noob?

antihero727 · December 2016

LeifErickson wrote: »

antihero727 wrote: »

When does it become easy enough for all noobs to shut their complaint box?

Are you saying I am a noob?

If your making stupid posts about making an easy game easier and giving the time most of us put in for free to everyone, then yes. There are more populated active campaigns for new players with low levels & low CP than competive campaigns on PC NA. Why do we need to add more? This is slowly becoming star war Galaxies when the Jedi academy was accessible from the new player spawning point. Before that it took months to level a Jedi. 200k people unsubbed in 24hr and 3 months later they shut the servers down.

imenace · December 2016

i didnt care about the 'cp should be removed' till one of my friends started playing.. i leveled him up to 160cp and its pathetic really. they should atleast lower the scaling of the CP, the difference between 160 and 561 is waaaaay to much

God_flakes · December 2016

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Sure, why not? I never liked the idea of "Because I spent more time clicking virtual zombies to death to get imaginary video game points, I should be stronger than you" anyways. You can't have competitive PVP when so much of PVP boils down to whoever has grinded the most.

Then what should it be based on??? Popularity? Looks? If not the grind...then what???? You really think you should come into the game *now* and have the same competetive edge as someone who has been playing their a$$ off since beta?? Come on now

Uh...getting better at the game?

And you get better by PLAYING. You get better by doing the same thing again and again until you excel. This is the truth with ANYTHING: playing an instrument, playing a sport, playing a game. You don't get scaled up to playing Rachmaninov simply by sitting down at a piano. Ffs.

antihero727 · December 2016

imenace wrote: »

i didnt care about the 'cp should be removed' till one of my friends started playing.. i leveled him up to 160cp and its pathetic really. they should atleast lower the scaling of the CP, the difference between 160 and 561 is waaaaay to much

It's the reward for sticking with something instead of just getting it for free.

Yiko · December 2016

antihero727 wrote: »

It's the reward for sticking with something instead of just getting it for free.

It's a shame that people need a selling point like this. It's not enough to invest more time into the game (being better practiced and better equipped), you need a tremendous inherent advantage as well?

LeifErickson · December 2016

antihero727 wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

antihero727 wrote: »

When does it become easy enough for all noobs to shut their complaint box?

Are you saying I am a noob?

If your making stupid posts about making an easy game easier and giving the time most of us put in for free to everyone, then yes. There are more populated active campaigns for new players with low levels & low CP than competive campaigns on PC NA. Why do we need to add more? This is slowly becoming star war Galaxies when the Jedi academy was accessible from the new player spawning point. Before that it took months to level a Jedi. 200k people unsubbed in 24hr and 3 months later they shut the servers down.

https://youtu.be/f3WQRIiwc30?t=472

If I am a noob, what are you? Start at 7:54 if it doesn't automatically.

Taylor_MB · December 2016

antihero727 wrote: »

If your making stupid posts about making an easy game easier and giving the time most of us put in for free to everyone, then yes.

Time that you put in should give you more experience and skill, not a raw statistical advantage, that is not appropriate for a competitive PvP environment. If you want more power just cause you've played for longer should stick to PvE.

antihero727 wrote: »

There are more populated active campaigns for new players with low levels & low CP than competive campaigns on PC NA.

TF PC NA is the only campaign that is active and competitive 24/7, saying otherwise demonstrates significant lack of knowledge.

antihero727 wrote: »

Why do we need to add more?

OP is 3 sentences long, I'd give it a quick re-read if I was you.

---

The grind to 160cp for max gear is meh, but understandable in a game that tries to juggle PvE and PvP in largely the same manner. Temporarily giving players 561cp when they enter CP servers makes PvP about skill+build/playstyle+experience vs skill+build/playstyle+experience. Awarding player a statistical advantage just because they've played longer has no place in a competitive environment, rely on your skill, experience and confidence in your build/playstyle, not a statistical modifier you opponent won't have access to for potentially months.

Taylor_MB · December 2016

LeifErickson wrote: »

If I am a noob, what are you? Start at 7:54 if it doesn't automatically.

Some people just need every advantage. You've struck a nerve suggesting one gets taken away.

Manoekin · December 2016

LeifErickson wrote: »

antihero727 wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

antihero727 wrote: »

When does it become easy enough for all noobs to shut their complaint box?

Are you saying I am a noob?

If your making stupid posts about making an easy game easier and giving the time most of us put in for free to everyone, then yes. There are more populated active campaigns for new players with low levels & low CP than competive campaigns on PC NA. Why do we need to add more? This is slowly becoming star war Galaxies when the Jedi academy was accessible from the new player spawning point. Before that it took months to level a Jedi. 200k people unsubbed in 24hr and 3 months later they shut the servers down.

https://youtu.be/f3WQRIiwc30?t=472

If I am a noob, what are you? Start at 7:54 if it doesn't automatically.

roflllll

antihero727 · December 2016

If you feel this way why not just play a game with no character progression? That is one of the main reasons I enjoy this game. Quit trying to make this game something is was never meant to be.

Prabooo · December 2016

LOL

Ishammael · December 2016

antihero727 wrote: »

If you feel this way why not just play a game with no character progression? That is one of the main reasons I enjoy this game. Quit trying to make this game something is was never meant to be.

Never meant to be?

Everyone can have an opinion what they want... but don't be dishonest. The game launched with practically zero progression. Was that not intended? Gear sets with "5-pc" bonuses didn't even exist. The game was heavily marketed as a RvR game with Elder Scrolls setting. In fact, initial reviews roasted the PvE content while praising the RvR zone and gameplay.

CPs were added a year later, initially providing infinite progression.

While the CP system has turned into a successful part of the game, it definitely was NOT right at the 1.5-1.6 transition and as the 1.6 patch played out. It disadvantaged new players. PvP became a nightmare because a handful of players with more time were able to gather significantly higher stats for doing nothing other than kill goblins in cave. Only once the IC patch was launched (2.0) did ZoS even make an attempt at addressing imbalance.

Regardless, character progression absolutely should not restricted to gaining more stats.

What if, instead of boring % increases to dmg, stats, or regen, the CP system offered a route to further customize your build? @Manoekin has mentioned this several times. The basic premise is that CPs would alter certain skills and stats rather than blanket bonuses. For example, what if there was a CP which added an execute component to your favorite skill? Or a CP that increased fire DoT damage? Or a CP that completely modified the shape, radius, or effect of a skill? The CP tree would then be the avenue a player would utilize to shore up "weakness" in his/her class or leverage strengths.

Is any really willing to argue that a 25% damage bonus is "balanced" for all 4 classes? OR that +% healing is balanced? For that matter, does Battle Spirit "fairly" effect all classes? This is really the point of Leif's original post. The CP system, and its associated "Battle Spirit" debuff, are inherently unfair and imbalanced: new players must "grind out" missing power in a character, each classes responds differently to CPs.

Astanphaeus · December 2016

LeifErickson wrote: »

antihero727 wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

antihero727 wrote: »

If I am a noob, what are you? Start at 7:54 if it doesn't automatically.

He seems like someone not playing a stamblade. I mean, if you really ant to talk about balance, that class is probably here you should start.

Ishammael · December 2016

Astanphaeus wrote: »

He seems like someone not playing a stamblade. I mean, if you really ant to talk about balance, that class is probably here you should start.

Leif has a mTemplar, mDK, mSorc, sNB.

arkansas_ESO · December 2016

God_flakes wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Sure, why not? I never liked the idea of "Because I spent more time clicking virtual zombies to death to get imaginary video game points, I should be stronger than you" anyways. You can't have competitive PVP when so much of PVP boils down to whoever has grinded the most.

Then what should it be based on??? Popularity? Looks? If not the grind...then what???? You really think you should come into the game *now* and have the same competetive edge as someone who has been playing their a$$ off since beta?? Come on now

Uh...getting better at the game?

And you get better by PLAYING. You get better by doing the same thing again and again until you excel. This is the truth with ANYTHING: playing an instrument, playing a sport, playing a game. You don't get scaled up to playing Rachmaninov simply by sitting down at a piano. Ffs.

That's my point entirely: you get better by PLAYING, not by grinding. Rachmaninov didn't become a master at his craft by pressing one key on the piano a million times (like grinding in ESO), he got better through learning new things, from learning how the piano works and how to compose his own pieces. Again, he himself got better. You're confusing your virtual character getting stronger with you the player getting better at the game, when in reality you haven't changed at all. If you don't believe me, go craft yourself some white CP10 gear and respec to where you only have 300 CP, and then go PVP. You'll notice your performance will significantly drop, because you're not a good player, you've just been playing a strong character.

NBrookus · December 2016

What's next? Scale everyone in trials and dungeons to max CP? Then you might as well not have CP, you go from level 49 to 25%+ more powerful.

CP is broken and overpowered. That needs to be addressed, not band-aiding it.

LeifErickson · December 2016

NBrookus wrote: »

What's next? Scale everyone in trials and dungeons to max CP? Then you might as well not have CP, you go from level 49 to 25%+ more powerful.

CP is broken and overpowered. That needs to be addressed, not band-aiding it.

I agree, but it's better they do something rather than nothing. This is just a possible solution.

God_flakes · December 2016

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Sure, why not? I never liked the idea of "Because I spent more time clicking virtual zombies to death to get imaginary video game points, I should be stronger than you" anyways. You can't have competitive PVP when so much of PVP boils down to whoever has grinded the most.

Then what should it be based on??? Popularity? Looks? If not the grind...then what???? You really think you should come into the game *now* and have the same competetive edge as someone who has been playing their a$$ off since beta?? Come on now

Uh...getting better at the game?

And you get better by PLAYING. You get better by doing the same thing again and again until you excel. This is the truth with ANYTHING: playing an instrument, playing a sport, playing a game. You don't get scaled up to playing Rachmaninov simply by sitting down at a piano. Ffs.

That's my point entirely: you get better by PLAYING, not by grinding. Rachmaninov didn't become a master at his craft by pressing one key on the piano a million times (like grinding in ESO), he got better through learning new things, from learning how the piano works and how to compose his own pieces. Again, he himself got better. You're confusing your virtual character getting stronger with you the player getting better at the game, when in reality you haven't changed at all. If you don't believe me, go craft yourself some white CP10 gear and respec to where you only have 300 CP, and then go PVP. You'll notice your performance will significantly drop, because you're not a good player, you've just been playing a strong character.

And playing affords me both cp and pvp rank!!! What is the point of either if you just scale every Tom, *** and Harry right off the bat?

arkansas_ESO · December 2016

God_flakes wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Sure, why not? I never liked the idea of "Because I spent more time clicking virtual zombies to death to get imaginary video game points, I should be stronger than you" anyways. You can't have competitive PVP when so much of PVP boils down to whoever has grinded the most.

Then what should it be based on??? Popularity? Looks? If not the grind...then what???? You really think you should come into the game *now* and have the same competetive edge as someone who has been playing their a$$ off since beta?? Come on now

Uh...getting better at the game?

And you get better by PLAYING. You get better by doing the same thing again and again until you excel. This is the truth with ANYTHING: playing an instrument, playing a sport, playing a game. You don't get scaled up to playing Rachmaninov simply by sitting down at a piano. Ffs.

That's my point entirely: you get better by PLAYING, not by grinding. Rachmaninov didn't become a master at his craft by pressing one key on the piano a million times (like grinding in ESO), he got better through learning new things, from learning how the piano works and how to compose his own pieces. Again, he himself got better. You're confusing your virtual character getting stronger with you the player getting better at the game, when in reality you haven't changed at all. If you don't believe me, go craft yourself some white CP10 gear and respec to where you only have 300 CP, and then go PVP. You'll notice your performance will significantly drop, because you're not a good player, you've just been playing a strong character.

And playing affords me both cp and pvp rank!!! What is the point of either if you just scale every Tom, *** and Harry right off the bat?

Because if a PVP game is to be competitive, fights have to be determined more by a player's skill than something arbitrary like XP gained. Making PVP a matter of who has grinded more, instead of who is actually the better player, does not make for good gameplay, and serves to only scare off new players. My question is: why are you so afraid of a fair fight? Are you so unconfident in your skills as a player that you can't fathom being able to do well in PVP without a raw damage advantage over most of the playerbase?

Chuga_Rei · December 2016

I'm just not buying the fair fight argument. like many have said if you don't want a cp advantage go to the non cp campaign.

Is this even an issue? Is it upsetting to you the Random's in your 1vx vids aren't all capped?

how does this play out when zos raises the cap? Does the player have to put the points in every time they zone in? If not, do they just forfeit the passives?

I guess I just am missing the practicality in all this and how it would even be implemented. This feels like just another thread of complaints from the usual suspects.

If zos only has so much human capital to expend on balance issues and fixes is it best spent on this?

Chuga_Rei · December 2016

To further add to my point, when I really think of balance in this game, I can think of a dozen things they should fix before they even touch CP. if I had a say in where zos allocated hours on the clock it would be in reworking sets and abilities.

Just my 2 cents.

Derra · December 2016

Chuga_Rei wrote: »

I'm just not buying the fair fight argument. like many have said if you don't want a cp advantage go to the non cp campaign.

Is this even an issue? Is it upsetting to you the Random's in your 1vx vids aren't all capped?

how does this play out when zos raises the cap? Does the player have to put the points in every time they zone in? If not, do they just forfeit the passives?

I guess I just am missing the practicality in all this and how it would even be implemented. This feels like just another thread of complaints from the usual suspects.

If zos only has so much human capital to expend on balance issues and fixes is it best spent on this?

The nonCP campaign is simply not fun for some people because it´s an entirely different game played there.

Chuga_Rei · December 2016

Right, a game without cp or any of its imbalances. Isn't that what this is about?

im not sure what sort of balance the OP is really after when in the long list of imbalances handing a bunch of people with 1/10th the time played of the OP is going to make some grand difference if he's just 1 shotting them with a proc set or roasting them 6 at a time with eots.

Like I said before, if you want to provider a baseline for everyone that's fine by me, go for it. But a naturally occurring cp difference is the least of this games balance issues.

Derra · December 2016

The game just has different imbalances on non cp campaigns.

Going purely based on popularity players enjoy the CP imbalances more than they do the nonCP ones. If they hadn´t made azura nonCP (which was the most popular campaign prior to it´s no cp change) i think nonCP would be even less popular.

Chuga_Rei · December 2016

Derra wrote: »

The game just has different imbalances on non cp campaigns.

Going purely based on popularity players enjoy the CP imbalances more than they do the nonCP ones. If they hadn´t made azura nonCP (which was the most popular campaign prior to it´s no cp change) i think nonCP would be even less popular.

If we are going off popularity it's pretty obvious @Lord_Hev is beating the OP handily. So it's safe to assume that most disagree with the implementation of some sort of free cp welfare system

LeifErickson · December 2016

Chuga_Rei wrote: »

This feels like just another thread of complaints from the usual suspects.

I complain because I care about the game, enjoy it a lot, and want to see it become better. You are probably right that things like sets need to be balanced first, this is just an imbalance I think needs more attention. However, it appears that people in this community like and enjoy this imbalance.

As for moving to the no cp campaign, I know you know I use to play there exclusively. However, all the things that are "balanced for cp" (if you call it balance) like poisons, proc sets, shield breaker, etc. are completely overpowered in Azuras and it makes it no longer fun for me because of these things. Not to mention all the brand new players that go there (the Japanese zergs) who don't know how to play the game yet and are not fun to fight because of it.