Geez, this guy really shows us how disgusting these crates are:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/306479/im-so-done-with-these-crates

Their business practice can be seen as shady. Imo it starts when you sell "crowns" or "xy-points" etc, for real money to prevent putting a pricetag €, $$, or whatever on the stuff you´re selling. The deceit lies there. It´s abusing those with minor intellect.

As many game companies do it it´s the job of the player to think clearly about it. If you´re offended by it there are many things to try to stop it. Crying on the forum ain´t gonna help though.

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

"Worth" is not dependant on ZOS price tag but to how valuable they really are. Poisons for example have no worth at all since these are extremely easy to get. Same goes for pointless werewolf / vampire bites... all free and mostly easy to acquire yet they cost like 1k crowns.

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I have nothing against direct purchases. I have nothing against crown crates. ZOS can include whatever "benefit" it sees fit into its product, whether you personally believe there is no benefit to anyone but ZOS itself. You make the decision to whether or not you want to consume their product.

I absolutely will defend their right to be "stupid", smart, goofy, funny, upside down, sideways, etc etc. It is the very right they have that should be defended. The same right we all have, individuals and businesses. And ZOS should absolutely not bend to the will and logic you believe in unless they themselves want to change course.

If you think a cookie should cost as much as car then I guess there is nothing much I can argue with. Why would anyone that is actually interested in buying said cookie choose the price much higher? It seems you don't even use the crown store which makes this very easy. I can't fathom any other explanation and you don't need to answer. You just lost me completely with this "logic".

Let me try to get something through to you. It's called freedoms. F R E E D O M!

You're completely missing the point. You have "freedom" as well. The freedom to oppose this nonsense yet you defend the developers and their ridiculous thieving. God, "patriots" are annoying.

There is no patriot. I made my point clearly. ZOS should absolutely not bend to anyone's will/idea/thoughts unless they themselves decide to take a course of action with how they want to handle their business. You can say whatever you want, you can do whatever you want, you can buy all the crown crates you want. Doesn't matter to me. If internally ZOS holds a meeting and says let us keep crown crates up simply to troll all the players, then I give that decision two thumbs up. If ZOS decides to do away with crown crates then I give it two thumbs up.

Social justice warriors in an uproar because a game company put completely optional slot machine into their game......

There are. Your constant need to express how american you are is irritating and seems to be exactly the reason why you refuse to make any sense.

You haven't refuted me implying it and I don't like making assumptions but lets be honest: you don't actually buy anything from the crown store, do you? That's why you don't care and can very easily defend the freedom you're so proud of. Because your money isn't affected in any way. You just blatantly said you're fine with ZOS trolling their costumers. You're a costumer, why the hell would you not make use of that great freedom you keep preaching? That's just hypocritical on every level.

You could spend money on these crates for eternity and never get the item you want. Tell me why you as a costumer would desire this? But instead of answering you just go back to how they have the right to be as unreasonable as they like which brings nothing across. We all know that and that isn't the point of this thread. You're going in circles, trying make a point that is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

Nyx2 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

"Worth" is not dependant on ZOS price tag but to how valuable they really are. Poisons for example have no worth at all since these are extremely easy to get. Same goes for pointless werewolf / vampire bites... all free and mostly easy to acquire yet they cost like 1k crowns.

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I have nothing against direct purchases. I have nothing against crown crates. ZOS can include whatever "benefit" it sees fit into its product, whether you personally believe there is no benefit to anyone but ZOS itself. You make the decision to whether or not you want to consume their product.

I absolutely will defend their right to be "stupid", smart, goofy, funny, upside down, sideways, etc etc. It is the very right they have that should be defended. The same right we all have, individuals and businesses. And ZOS should absolutely not bend to the will and logic you believe in unless they themselves want to change course.

If you think a cookie should cost as much as car then I guess there is nothing much I can argue with. Why would anyone that is actually interested in buying said cookie choose the price much higher? It seems you don't even use the crown store which makes this very easy. I can't fathom any other explanation and you don't need to answer. You just lost me completely with this "logic".

Let me try to get something through to you. It's called freedoms. F R E E D O M!

You're completely missing the point. You have "freedom" as well. The freedom to oppose this nonsense yet you defend the developers and their ridiculous thieving. God, "patriots" are annoying.

There is no patriot. I made my point clearly. ZOS should absolutely not bend to anyone's will/idea/thoughts unless they themselves decide to take a course of action with how they want to handle their business. You can say whatever you want, you can do whatever you want, you can buy all the crown crates you want. Doesn't matter to me. If internally ZOS holds a meeting and says let us keep crown crates up simply to troll all the players, then I give that decision two thumbs up. If ZOS decides to do away with crown crates then I give it two thumbs up.

Social justice warriors in an uproar because a game company put completely optional slot machine into their game......

There are. Your constant need to express how american you are is irritating and seems to be exactly the reason why you refuse to make any sense.

You haven't refuted me implying it and I don't like making assumptions but lets be honest: you don't actually buy anything from the crown store, do you? That's why you don't care and can very easily defend the freedom you're so proud of. Because your money isn't affected in any way. You just blatantly said you're fine with ZOS trolling their costumers. You're a costumer, why the hell would you not make use of that great freedom you keep preaching? That's just hypocritical on every level.

You could spend money on these crates for eternity and never get the item you want. Tell me why you as a costumer would desire this? But instead of answering you just go back to how they have the right to be as unreasonable as they like which brings nothing across. We all know that and that isn't the point of this thread. You're going in circles, trying make a point that is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

Not quite true. You would eventually have enough gems to buy any item, it's just that it MIGHT take a while.

greyman wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Kodrac wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

Because they're a scam.

There is no scam without a deceit.

I believe the deceit in this case is not giving the odds.

That is not deceit. It may be a bit opaque, but it hardly constitutes deceit.

Trust me, if you think these things are a scam, your life is going to be one giant crap sandwich.

de·ceit
dəˈsēt/
noun
the action or practice of deceiving someone by concealing or misrepresenting the truth.

I think not publishing drop rates absolutely qualifies as concealing the truth, YMMV.

That's pretty thin to be honest. While they're not giving us the exact drop rates, they have never ever 'concealed' the fact that you only have a chance to get the items you want.

My main problem is not that we don't know the drop rates. I take issue with the fact that they can be changed, all the way down to a per-account level of granularity, at any point in time without telling the players. Are they going to do that? I don't know, but nothing is stopping them and we have no way of telling if they do.

If I was ZOS and wanted to milk as much money as possible I would keep the drop rates high the first couple of weeks while everyone is building spreadsheets and whatnot. Then, once the initial furor dies down you slowly lower the chance of better drops. Those spreadsheets are now getting high marks for search terms like "ESO crown crate drop rates" and no one is keeping them updated past the first rush.

Even better, lets throw some machine learning tech at the problem, profile people's behavior and adjust the drop rates individually to maximize return. Is this in their plan? Again, I don't know, but this kind of thing is actively done today by companies all over the world and ZOS has given us no assurances that they are not.

They are concealing quite a bit about how the crate drops work or what they are using to set them on the back end.

driosketch wrote: »

MFW I post mathematical proof of false advertising on the previous page and people are still quibbling over the definition of deceit.

Hmm, good catch, I missed that. You should post links back to previous posts in huge threads like this, it's easy to miss one.

wayfarerx wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

MFW I post mathematical proof of false advertising on the previous page and people are still quibbling over the definition of deceit.

Hmm, good catch, I missed that. You should post links back to previous posts in huge threads like this, it's easy to miss one.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3569141#Comment_3569141

FloppyTouch wrote: »

I got a mount after a few boxes got the 15 bundle was not a rip off imo

what mount did you get in said purchase?

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Let me try to get something through to you. It's called freedoms. F R E E D O M! If someone or a company wants to make a cookie that costs $55,342.58 then they have every right to do so! There is no "I think or you think", there is only whatever they want to do they absolutely should (under rules and regulations of course, but i digress). The FREE MARKET will then decide whether selling a $55,342.58 cookie is viable. People will either buy it or not. That is a beautiful system of freedoms where a business has its freedoms and then the consumer has their freedoms!

Nobody is arguing that ZOS doesn't have the right to do this--i.e., nobody is saying that they CAN'T. We are saying that ZOS SHOULDN'T. Just as ZOS has every freedom to implement a dumb system and advocate for it (advertise), we have every freedom to not only refuse to participate, but to also to advocate against it.

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

There is no patriot. I made my point clearly. ZOS should absolutely not bend to anyone's will/idea/thoughts unless they themselves decide to take a course of action with how they want to handle their business. You can say whatever you want, you can do whatever you want, you can buy all the crown crates you want. Doesn't matter to me. If internally ZOS holds a meeting and says let us keep crown crates up simply to troll all the players, then I give that decision two thumbs up. If ZOS decides to do away with crown crates then I give it two thumbs up.

How exactly do you think ZOS makes their decisions, hmm? They flip a coin? Throw a dart on the board? Or maybe they have people crunching numbers, figuring out whether the profit from the big spenders is worth the cost of losing customers that they alienate? They may decide that this cost is acceptable, and if that's what they decide, then so be it. But there is nothing wrong with reminding ZOS of this cost, and it is absurd to think that ZOS shouldn't take into account what their customers think, since we are the ones funding their paychecks.

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Social justice warriors in an uproar because a game company put completely optional slot machine into their game......

Lemmings in an uproar because some customers who are voting with their wallet are trying to convince other customers to do the same. Have you considered moving to Russia or China? I heard that authoritarian regimes really like that kind of blind obedience in their subjects.

I was told to check the website for announcements on non crate related content but couldn't find any. Does anyone know where the new dlc/expansion announcement page is? I've played and subbed since launch on pc and eagerly await news of gameplay content to come. Been kinda low on that for a while now. Is the funding there for it or is it crates/housing/crates/2 dungeons/crates from here on out?

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

"Worth" is not dependant on ZOS price tag but to how valuable they really are. Poisons for example have no worth at all since these are extremely easy to get. Same goes for pointless werewolf / vampire bites... all free and mostly easy to acquire yet they cost like 1k crowns.

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I have nothing against direct purchases. I have nothing against crown crates. ZOS can include whatever "benefit" it sees fit into its product, whether you personally believe there is no benefit to anyone but ZOS itself. You make the decision to whether or not you want to consume their product.

I absolutely will defend their right to be "stupid", smart, goofy, funny, upside down, sideways, etc etc. It is the very right they have that should be defended. The same right we all have, individuals and businesses. And ZOS should absolutely not bend to the will and logic you believe in unless they themselves want to change course.

If you think a cookie should cost as much as car then I guess there is nothing much I can argue with. Why would anyone that is actually interested in buying said cookie choose the price much higher? It seems you don't even use the crown store which makes this very easy. I can't fathom any other explanation and you don't need to answer. You just lost me completely with this "logic".

Let me try to get something through to you. It's called freedoms. F R E E D O M!

You're completely missing the point. You have "freedom" as well. The freedom to oppose this nonsense yet you defend the developers and their ridiculous thieving. God, "patriots" are annoying.

There is no patriot. I made my point clearly. ZOS should absolutely not bend to anyone's will/idea/thoughts unless they themselves decide to take a course of action with how they want to handle their business. You can say whatever you want, you can do whatever you want, you can buy all the crown crates you want. Doesn't matter to me. If internally ZOS holds a meeting and says let us keep crown crates up simply to troll all the players, then I give that decision two thumbs up. If ZOS decides to do away with crown crates then I give it two thumbs up.

Social justice warriors in an uproar because a game company put completely optional slot machine into their game......

There are. Your constant need to express how american you are is irritating and seems to be exactly the reason why you refuse to make any sense.

You haven't refuted me implying it and I don't like making assumptions but lets be honest: you don't actually buy anything from the crown store, do you? That's why you don't care and can very easily defend the freedom you're so proud of. Because your money isn't affected in any way. You just blatantly said you're fine with ZOS trolling their costumers. You're a costumer, why the hell would you not make use of that great freedom you keep preaching? That's just hypocritical on every level.

You could spend money on these crates for eternity and never get the item you want. Tell me why you as a costumer would desire this? But instead of answering you just go back to how they have the right to be as unreasonable as they like which brings nothing across. We all know that and that isn't the point of this thread. You're going in circles, trying make a point that is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

You keep going in circles because you keep equating what ZOS should do in your mind with what is "supposed" to work for customers as you think it should. DO NOT BUY CROWN CRATES IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE SYSTEM! It is really not more complicated than that.

What more do you want from anyone here or even ZOS? ZOS doesn't even want you buying crown crates if you don't want to, that's why it's OPTIONAL!

Yes I am American. To confirm for you there.

You avoided the question again. You don't need to tell me what I can do, I know that myself.

Again: "you don't actually buy anything from the crown store, do you?"

"You could spend money on these crates for eternity and never get the item you want. Tell me why you as a costumer would desire this?"

I'm telling you very clearly what I want but it seems you're afraid to answer. This is just really poor argumentation...

I really wish I could explain to your face exactly what I mean. Because the answer keeps soaring over your head. I don't have any desire to get a stupid mount so I don't play with crown crates. Crown crates aren't in my way of enjoying ESO so I don't whine about it. Objectively, crown crates prevent no one from enjoying ESO, they are a completely optional. If ZOS put the game behind crown crates and it was the only way to enjoy it, I would quietly no longer play ESO. If you desire you want a mount then you must accept the system which crown crates currently work. That's my answer. No one disrespect ZOS, and no one whine like ESO was ruined by some optional side gag.

A big thing about RPG's is cosmetics. People spend a lot of time customizing their characters. It is preventing people from enjoying eso. They are screwing over people looking for specific things (not necessarily an apex mount) and this is intended. Yet people are trying harder to justify these then Matt Firor himself. He talks about everything but crates until the last 6 words.

MMORPG: Why now add these to ESO, several years on?

MF: ESO is a living, breathing service and as such we make changes to it every quarter or so – new content, new systems, fixes, balance changes, etc. Just over a year ago we changed the game’s primary revenue model from subscription-required to subscription-optional, for example. This coming Update, we will drop character level requirements for exploring content, which is a large change to the game that we think will make the game more socially enabled and make it easier for players to find friends and group with them. We are committed to keeping the game fresh and interesting for players for the life of the game, so we will add new systems from time to time – Crown Crates is an example of this.


Read more at http://www.mmorpg.com/elder-scrolls-online/interviews/all-about-the-crown-crates-coming-in-one-tamriel-1000011112#erKgVCbKlYBsBwtc.99

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

"Worth" is not dependant on ZOS price tag but to how valuable they really are. Poisons for example have no worth at all since these are extremely easy to get. Same goes for pointless werewolf / vampire bites... all free and mostly easy to acquire yet they cost like 1k crowns.

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I have nothing against direct purchases. I have nothing against crown crates. ZOS can include whatever "benefit" it sees fit into its product, whether you personally believe there is no benefit to anyone but ZOS itself. You make the decision to whether or not you want to consume their product.

I absolutely will defend their right to be "stupid", smart, goofy, funny, upside down, sideways, etc etc. It is the very right they have that should be defended. The same right we all have, individuals and businesses. And ZOS should absolutely not bend to the will and logic you believe in unless they themselves want to change course.

If you think a cookie should cost as much as car then I guess there is nothing much I can argue with. Why would anyone that is actually interested in buying said cookie choose the price much higher? It seems you don't even use the crown store which makes this very easy. I can't fathom any other explanation and you don't need to answer. You just lost me completely with this "logic".

Let me try to get something through to you. It's called freedoms. F R E E D O M!

You're completely missing the point. You have "freedom" as well. The freedom to oppose this nonsense yet you defend the developers and their ridiculous thieving. God, "patriots" are annoying.

There is no patriot. I made my point clearly. ZOS should absolutely not bend to anyone's will/idea/thoughts unless they themselves decide to take a course of action with how they want to handle their business. You can say whatever you want, you can do whatever you want, you can buy all the crown crates you want. Doesn't matter to me. If internally ZOS holds a meeting and says let us keep crown crates up simply to troll all the players, then I give that decision two thumbs up. If ZOS decides to do away with crown crates then I give it two thumbs up.

Social justice warriors in an uproar because a game company put completely optional slot machine into their game......

There are. Your constant need to express how american you are is irritating and seems to be exactly the reason why you refuse to make any sense.

You haven't refuted me implying it and I don't like making assumptions but lets be honest: you don't actually buy anything from the crown store, do you? That's why you don't care and can very easily defend the freedom you're so proud of. Because your money isn't affected in any way. You just blatantly said you're fine with ZOS trolling their costumers. You're a costumer, why the hell would you not make use of that great freedom you keep preaching? That's just hypocritical on every level.

You could spend money on these crates for eternity and never get the item you want. Tell me why you as a costumer would desire this? But instead of answering you just go back to how they have the right to be as unreasonable as they like which brings nothing across. We all know that and that isn't the point of this thread. You're going in circles, trying make a point that is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

You keep going in circles because you keep equating what ZOS should do in your mind with what is "supposed" to work for customers as you think it should. DO NOT BUY CROWN CRATES IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE SYSTEM! It is really not more complicated than that.

What more do you want from anyone here or even ZOS? ZOS doesn't even want you buying crown crates if you don't want to, that's why it's OPTIONAL!

Yes I am American. To confirm for you there.

You avoided the question again. You don't need to tell me what I can do, I know that myself.

Again: "you don't actually buy anything from the crown store, do you?"

"You could spend money on these crates for eternity and never get the item you want. Tell me why you as a costumer would desire this?"

I'm telling you very clearly what I want but it seems you're afraid to answer. This is just really poor argumentation...

I really wish I could explain to your face exactly what I mean. Because the answer keeps soaring over your head. I don't have any desire to get a stupid mount so I don't play with crown crates. Crown crates aren't in my way of enjoying ESO so I don't whine about it. Objectively, crown crates prevent no one from enjoying ESO, they are a completely optional. If ZOS put the game behind crown crates and it was the only way to enjoy it, I would quietly no longer play ESO. If you desire you want a mount then you must accept the system which crown crates currently work. That's my answer. No one disrespect ZOS, and no one whine like ESO was ruined by some optional side gag.

That side gag is now the main attraction, feature, source of new fun, from here on out. Please show a little respect and do not label it a side gag. Folks at ZOS are working to ensure that all resources are poured into fun boxes going forward. Don't belittle their commitment.