Bad players voting to kick from group in dungeons

Blackfyre20 · November 2016

For the second time this week I have been kicked from a group for "not being a tank." In the latest instance I got kicked after the first two bosses of blessed crucible which we handled fine as a group. Was messaged by a dps who had been using dizzying swing during the fight that i should not queue if i'm not a tank. Couple things, just because I am using a staff to contribute to dps does not mean i cant tank. With sorc shields and inner fire can tank most vet dungeons just fine. I'm just trying to level undaunted and queue is quicker as a tank, and get dungeons done quick by also doing dps (more than one of the dps in our group). So don't kick me because you see i have a staff and immediately blame me for any problems of the group while you are dpsing with dizzying swing.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · November 2016

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

For the second time this week I have been kicked from a group for "not being a tank." In the latest instance I got kicked after the first two bosses of blessed crucible which we handled fine as a group. Was messaged by a dps who had been using dizzying swing during the fight that i should not queue if i'm not a tank. Couple things, just because I am using a staff to contribute to dps does not mean i cant tank. With sorc shields and inner fire can tank most vet dungeons just fine. I'm just trying to level undaunted and queue is quicker as a tank, and get dungeons done quick by also doing dps (more than one of the dps in our group). So don't kick me because you see i have a staff and immediately blame me for any problems of the group while you are dpsing with dizzying swing.

I often have this problem with one of my friends when we are running. They always want to kick people if those people arent doing what my friend thinks they should be doing. Im not sure why. If we are getting through the dungeon without issues, who cares what anyone is doing?

And before anyone ask, yes I have friends.

SolarCat02 · November 2016

I have kicked people for queuing as tank when they aren't a tank. I have no qualms about doing it. I do wait until the first boss first, of course, to verify!

Most recently, last Saturday. Fake tank ran in and engaged the optional first boss of Crypt of Hearts I (veteran). My healing drew the most aggro, and that particular boss can easily one-shot me, so in between trying to kite him while keeping fake tank alive while he stood in the ice AoE... One slip up and I was dead on the floor. Fake tank would promptly flee from the boss, pulling him out of the AoE ultimates on the floor, not even kiting him around the edges of them like I had been doing. One of the other DPS would rez me, and immediately I would end up with aggro again.

I didn't queue to healtank, and two deaths on an optional boss was not in my game plan. KICKED.

Next tank was also a dps-queued-as-tank, by his own admission. We wouldn't have been able to tell otherwise, he held aggro (and survived it) like a pro, and was clearly wearing Ebon. Heck, he and I even had a good Warhorn rotation going. Over the next three hours we ran five dungeons with his dps tank, three veteran hardmodes plus a quick mechanics run to teach him Crypt of Shadows, and his first successful run of veteran City of Ash II as a finisher.

Don't queue for a role you are not intending to fulfill. If you queue as tank, then at least hold the boss still, keep his aggro (and make sure it won't kill you). If you queued as healer, you signed up for the responsibility to help your group keep their health bars full. If you queued as dps, you have committed to causing as much damage as you are capable of causing. If you are in my group doing a role other than the one you signed up for, make sure the one you DID sign up to perform is done first. (And for goodness sake, don't interfere with the tank's taunting either. For all the "tanks" I have found that don't know what a taunt is, I never expected to ever run into dps taunting as part of their rotation... But now I know not to assume that either.)

WhitePawPrints · November 2016

Tanking is more than just surviving bosses. Tanks must hold the aggro of the bosses.

I have a DPS and I'd say more than half of my dungeons that I enter by using Group Finder, the tank is not a real tank. I find that out because my DPS does more damage than the rest of the group, so who get's the agro? Me. I did not queue for a tank, so I should not be holding the agro, and the fake tank WILL be kicked.

I don't care what weapons you use, but if you do not have one of the two taunts on then you're not a tank. If you had a taunt on and have to rely on dodging and running away from the boss, then you're a bad tank. If you just stand there with a shield blocking, then you're still a bad tank.

Nifty2g · November 2016

Why are you calling them bad players if you're not even doing the role correctly?

dday3six · November 2016

So you're faux-tanking cause f-being a team player, but the team that kicked you is bad?

I wonder why...

code65536 · November 2016

There are only three things I expect from the tank in a Group Finder PUG.

Hold aggro
Position correctly (i.e., don't kite the boss around, out of my ground AoEs)
Don't die

If your non-tank setup means that you're dying too much or that you can't stand your ground and hold the boss steady, then you're not a tank and should be kicked.

Otherwise, as long as you do all three of those things, I couldn't care less how you do it.

A full tank is overkill in any normal dungeon and in some vet dungeons. If non-tank setup means that you can do all three of those things and make a substantial contribution to the group's overall DPS, then that's what you should do. And if anyone kicks you for it, then they're an idiot.

montiferus · November 2016

This is a major hot topic for me as my first character ever was a tank and now I have DPS as well but tanking is near and dear to me.

If you use group finder and queue as a tank and do none of the things a tank is supposed to do you should ABSOLUTELY be kicked from the group. As "code" mentioned above if you do not do the 3 things he mentioned you are utterly worthless and wasting everyone's time.

I've noticed this trend more and more lately and its infuriating. Some of these new hard mode dungeons require a tank. Last boss of Wayrest 1 HM comes to mind. Can't tell you how many times I've puged it to find the "tank" has no taunt and zero ability to survive. Nobody likes to wait in a queue but to try and jump the system because you have no patience makes it harder for everyone.

To come here on a forum to try and find sympathy for this behavior just shows how much you are missing the point.

PS - You would have been nuked by the final boss BTW on hard mode. Her attacks hit hard. They probably realized this and that is why they kicked you.

disintegr8 · November 2016

Don't queue as a tank unless you are going to hold aggro (taunt the boss) and have high health so that the healer can focus on keeping the DPS alive instead of you.

Queuing as a tank to get into dungeons faster is no excuse, regardless of how good your DPS is, a tank can do next to no damage and still be good at his role.

I have seen fake tanks coming in with less than 20k health, transforming into a werewolf in every fight and waiting for someone else to start every fight. The other day I had a tank running away from the first mob in Spindleglutch II, back towards the entrance to the dungeon, with 2 NPC's chasing him.

The sooner the group finder does some basic checks before allowing people to queue in roles, the better.

raj72616a · November 2016

maybe you can try using an addon to check your own dps and the total group dps, to see how much damage you are contributing, as a heavy armor magicka tank.

if you are grouping with bad dps and deal 50% damage of the group by yourself, yea, just continue to dps. but if you are only doing 10% or less, why dont you use a shield and pierce armor instead? the resistance debuff from Pierce Armor will contribute to more damage than your destro staff skills

Paneross · November 2016

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

For the second time this week I have been kicked from a group for "not being a tank." In the latest instance I got kicked after the first two bosses of blessed crucible which we handled fine as a group. Was messaged by a dps who had been using dizzying swing during the fight that i should not queue if i'm not a tank. Couple things, just because I am using a staff to contribute to dps does not mean i cant tank. With sorc shields and inner fire can tank most vet dungeons just fine. I'm just trying to level undaunted and queue is quicker as a tank, and get dungeons done quick by also doing dps (more than one of the dps in our group). So don't kick me because you see i have a staff and immediately blame me for any problems of the group while you are dpsing with dizzying swing.

Um........don't que as a tank if you're not a tank. Problem solved.

alexkdd99 · November 2016

I dont care what people are trying to do. If you do not have a taunt on/hold aggro and you queue as a tank, you are gone. I realize you said you were using inner fire, but I'm sure there was a reason you were kicked if it happened more than once.

Best solution is to not queue as a tank if you aren't a tank. Stop trying to bypass queue and wait like the rest of us. Or actually make a tank? That's what I did when I got tired of waiting. The people who queue for roles they can't adequately do, deserve to be kicked.

KingYogi415 · November 2016

I can't stand running with tanks who dont dps.

I just put black rose on my stam sorc with a taunt and im golden. I have sword and board for the DLC dungeons, still off bar duel wield vma weapons to dps.

Sounds like your shields got cut through and you had to be replaced.

Cheers!

Lukums1 · November 2016

I have to chime in LOL.

This has happened even to me. Stereotype INCOMING - "Flawless Conqueror"

But with one major difference, we always run 4-3 man groups in vet dungeons I never run with PUGS too painful.

But when a Pug does decide to take a crack at one of us and attempts to boot we all start laughing.

The immediately boot the person who tried to kick one of us good fun LOL.

AzuraKin · November 2016

any dps should be able to stand ground and withstand almost any attack from a boss if they know the fight (and alll players should ideally know fight). case in point. flesh attronach boss in vet VoM. tank dies, i on my white geared nb (17k health, 10k resist, dw weapons) held aggro from dps alone, sat next to healer and between his heals and my self heals stayed alive and never moved from spot.

ForsakenSin · November 2016

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

For the second time this week I have been kicked from a group for "not being a tank." In the latest instance I got kicked after the first two bosses of blessed crucible which we handled fine as a group. Was messaged by a dps who had been using dizzying swing during the fight that i should not queue if i'm not a tank. Couple things, just because I am using a staff to contribute to dps does not mean i cant tank. With sorc shields and inner fire can tank most vet dungeons just fine. I'm just trying to level undaunted and queue is quicker as a tank, and get dungeons done quick by also doing dps (more than one of the dps in our group). So don't kick me because you see i have a staff and immediately blame me for any problems of the group while you are dpsing with dizzying swing.

I often have this problem with one of my friends when we are running. They always want to kick people if those people arent doing what my friend thinks they should be doing. Im not sure why. If we are getting through the dungeon without issues, who cares what anyone is doing?

And before anyone ask, yes I have friends.

@vyndral13preub18_ESO

We spoke about this...many..many... times..... the voices in your head are not your friends...

acw37162 · November 2016

If you use group finder and que as a tank be prepared to be a tank.

Three other people are expecting a tank.

I personally don't give two *** what type of armor or weapon your wearing so long as you can preform your role. If you can't I'm not a vote to kick kinda guy, I'll just leave.

If you want to DPS tank get three friends or shout around the enclave for like minded individuals looking for a player such as yourself.

Otherwise don't complain about fandoms you find in group finder when your trying to game the que system for your own benefit.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam · November 2016

KingYogi415 wrote: »

I can't stand running with tanks who dont dps.

I just put black rose on my stam sorc with a taunt and im golden. I have sword and board for the DLC dungeons, still off bar duel wield vma weapons to dps.

Sounds like your shields got cut through and you had to be replaced.

Cheers!

Haha my exact setup especially in dungeons. Majority are just do DPS not special mechanics and like you I as the tank do DPS too.

Not sure all the rage towards OP so long as he's taunting and not dieing then he's golden for a pug. The standard is very low in pugs.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · November 2016

ForsakenSin wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

For the second time this week I have been kicked from a group for "not being a tank." In the latest instance I got kicked after the first two bosses of blessed crucible which we handled fine as a group. Was messaged by a dps who had been using dizzying swing during the fight that i should not queue if i'm not a tank. Couple things, just because I am using a staff to contribute to dps does not mean i cant tank. With sorc shields and inner fire can tank most vet dungeons just fine. I'm just trying to level undaunted and queue is quicker as a tank, and get dungeons done quick by also doing dps (more than one of the dps in our group). So don't kick me because you see i have a staff and immediately blame me for any problems of the group while you are dpsing with dizzying swing.

I often have this problem with one of my friends when we are running. They always want to kick people if those people arent doing what my friend thinks they should be doing. Im not sure why. If we are getting through the dungeon without issues, who cares what anyone is doing?

And before anyone ask, yes I have friends.

@vyndral13preub18_ESO

We spoke about this...many..many... times..... the voices in your head are not your friends...

That is what they say too. But i know better then to trust the voices in my head.

Yinmaigao · November 2016

AzuraKin wrote: »

any dps should be able to stand ground and withstand almost any attack from a boss if they know the fight (and alll players should ideally know fight). case in point. flesh attronach boss in vet VoM. tank dies, i on my white geared nb (17k health, 10k resist, dw weapons) held aggro from dps alone, sat next to healer and between his heals and my self heals stayed alive and never moved from spot.

Not trying to call you out, or say anything derogatory, but why are you using "white gear" in a vet dungeon D;

Trust me, I know they are easy... but it just seems kinda.... ***... to knowingly go into a dungeon gimped.

This whole thread is about pulling your weight/contributing the most you can to the group.

That having been said, usually when I get a bad group in group finder (that 100k xp & random garbage pulls me in every time) I just grit my teeth, swap some skills, and go into solo mode. Easier to carry the group than deal with the drama.

Doctordarkspawn · November 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

Why are you calling them bad players if you're not even doing the role correctly?

This mentality is why people dont wanna do dungeons. "Meta or die". I have a tank build that can put out steady warhorns, has debuffs like pierce and crusher enchants, and decent DPS with self sustained heals to boot, am I a bad tank because I'm not a DK? No, because that's friggin stupid.

I've seen successfully tanking dungeons since Tamriel Unlimited with a templar tank and I dont intend to stop. When ZOS gives sample builds or even rigid classes then people have the right to say how tanking should or shouldn't be done. Until then, confining the two rolls that have the greatest flexibility in acheving their goal is stupid.

Blackfyre20 · November 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

Why are you calling them bad players if you're not even doing the role correctly?

So just got back around to reading everyone's responses. I want to be clear with my initial post, I was holding aggro of all bosses in place. There was no kiting around or anything. We did not wipe at all, so I don't understand the issue. My biggest problem is being called a bad tank by dps who are not doing their own role and are putting out poor dps. And everyone else in the group just goes along with the vote because one player is convinced that he/she knows everything.

Blackfyre20 · November 2016

Oh and also I get the whole "it has happened more than once so you must be doing something wrong" thing but the first time I was kicked before we made it to the first boss.

Mayrael · November 2016

Im not against kicking folks from groups, but sometimes its unavoidable. When you are queued to be a tank, be a tank! Most of the time there is no problems with healers, they do what they do heal... It would be nice to have some buffs/debufs but its rather optional in dungs. But tanks? TBH ive swichted from being a healer to being a tank, and since then dungs seem to be much easier (maybe I was a terrible healer). Generaly I have two setups, full tank created to survive any boss without healer (60k health, 40k shields, self heal from low health to almost full in 3s, great resource managment, 2 taunts + guard to defend weakest team member) and dps tank (37k health 10-15k dps). Most dungs I run with second setup as its more than enough to be a tank + its makes easier to run through content as almost all of my skills are aoes, but sometimes you need real tank (like Ash Titan in CoAII, take boss and adds agro and run arround, while healer and dpses do their job).

TLDR. Since im in groups with unkilable tank, that can also support dpses when its needed (Direfrost) I have much better overall experience with pugs. CP or lvl doesnt matter that much rly, the most important is skill of a player. If you go through content without problems there is no need to whine. Few days ago ive done Direfrost 3 times to kill last boss. First two times was with 300+ cp players, last one was with one lvl 37 nb, one 130cp dps and caped healer. And gues what? Last time was almost no death run. Its all about focus, discipline and will to learn.

FoolishHuman · November 2016

As a healer it really sucks to not have a tank to keep aggro from you, it is the worst. The others probably won't even notice that I have to heal myself the most and run around in circles all the time.
That said, you can be a tank with a magicka or stamina setup and any class you want. The OP said she/he was using inner fire, which is a taunt, so I don't see why people here are saying a kick was justified.

Lord Valar · November 2016

And the baddest thing maybe : to be kicked because you don't know the dungeons....
But how the hell can you learn the strat if every stupid group is not explaining and just kicking you -_-

failkiwib16_ESO · November 2016

Lord Valar wrote: »

And the baddest thing maybe : to be kicked because you don't know the dungeons....
But how the hell can you learn the strat if every stupid group is not explaining and just kicking you -_-

@Lord Valar join a pve guild and get more friends, and organize a group without using the grouping tool.

Grouping Tool & Pugs: people expect you to live up to a certain standard within your chosen role.

Most pugs and grouping tool users want 2 pledge keys, they skip optional bosses that are needed for quest or achievement etc. is NOT good when you are new and inexperienced - when you are with equally skilled and experienced players, that want to pick up the quest in the dungeon and explore, kill all bosses and get achievements will give you a much better experience.

SHADOW2KK · November 2016

Lord Valar wrote: »

And the baddest thing maybe : to be kicked because you don't know the dungeons....
But how the hell can you learn the strat if every stupid group is not explaining and just kicking you -_-

Get friends maybe?

Nifty2g · November 2016

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Why are you calling them bad players if you're not even doing the role correctly?

So just got back around to reading everyone's responses. I want to be clear with my initial post, I was holding aggro of all bosses in place. There was no kiting around or anything. We did not wipe at all, so I don't understand the issue. My biggest problem is being called a bad tank by dps who are not doing their own role and are putting out poor dps. And everyone else in the group just goes along with the vote because one player is convinced that he/she knows everything.

You are effectively doing the exact same thing, which is why I said what I did.

You are not doing the role correctly just because you hold taunt, that isn't what tanking is all about, and it's a little ignorant to say so, you are there to hold agro and provide group support and buffs, you are there to provide placement on bosses to help the DD and healers with their roles.

So right now you are half arseing your role, taking short cuts doing it how YOU want to be doing it, but yet you create a thread about this DD effectively doing the same thing you are but as a different role.

Don't you think this is a little hypocritical?

SHADOW2KK · November 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Why are you calling them bad players if you're not even doing the role correctly?

So just got back around to reading everyone's responses. I want to be clear with my initial post, I was holding aggro of all bosses in place. There was no kiting around or anything. We did not wipe at all, so I don't understand the issue. My biggest problem is being called a bad tank by dps who are not doing their own role and are putting out poor dps. And everyone else in the group just goes along with the vote because one player is convinced that he/she knows everything.

You are effectively doing the exact same thing, which is why I said what I did.

You are not doing the role correctly just because you hold taunt, that isn't what tanking is all about, and it's a little ignorant to say so, you are there to hold agro and provide group support and buffs, you are there to provide placement on bosses to help the DD and healers with their roles.

So right now you are half arseing your role, taking short cuts doing it how YOU want to be doing it, but yet you create a thread about this DD effectively doing the same thing you are but as a different role.

Don't you think this is a little hypocritical?

Ironic isn`t it?

LadyNalcarya · November 2016

Well if that was vet blessed crucible, maybe they just figured you could be easily oneshotted by last boss' fire geysers as a dd with inner fire. Perhaps you could survive with a lot of kiting and running, but that would make dd's job much harder than it should be.
Maybe they just wanted to do the pledge.