Tank: "It's not my job to debuff." Yeah, right...

LadyNalcarya · November 2016

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

As someone who also runs a magicka tank, this is one of those Pugs under the 'unfathomable stupidity' catagory.

Not your job to debuff? STFU and L2P. I didn't think I'd ever need to utter those words.

What do you think about dds that only spam one ability or healers that just shoot Breath of Life or Healing Springs without anything else? Technically both do damage and heals, so...

Runkorko · November 2016

SienneYviete wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

DoccEff wrote: »

Just another rant about a bad pug...

Yesterday's pledge, Fungal 2, me playing as a healer.
My group: 2 dds, cp around 250, doing the dungeon for the first time, and a tank with 580cp and 48k Hp.

At the second boss, Gamyne Bandu (the one that chains you down), I notice that she boss doesn't get the armour debuff. One DD was stam-based, and my ele drain was just debuffing her spell resistance.

After that I asked the tank, if he could please use pierce armour to debuff the boss.

The following dialogue, transcribed from the screenshot I took:

- Tank: "whick skill should i need to debuff xD?"
- Me: "the one hand shield taunt?"
- Tank: "mag tank"
- Tank: "its not my job to debuf"
- Me: "it is your job"
- Tank: "i also can deal damage"
- Tank: "but thats not my job"
- Me: "it is" (was refering to debuffing)
- Me: "all tanks in this game use it"
- Me: "i give you stam back with shards"
- Tank: "ok then have fun to find a real tank "

.

A stamnina tank have debuf by defoult/ pierce armor. Mag tank is NOT nesesery to run with debuf but smart ones do/ and i will tell you why. Becaus most of the time dpsers in the grp run with dmg skill only and then is damn slow to kill a boss/
I wont hide it, i hate you kin alitle/ppl who tell others what they MUST do/. I dont know about your mmo xp but djudging of the way you think is not much or you learn slow. Let me help you with 3 of 4 rolles in the game / since we dont have debuffer class all, this can be done from any dd tank or healer but.... About tank role- tank need to hold agro and survive when healer is CCed or busy to outheal some dd or himself when step on ***/or aoe hits/ Do this incuding debuff? no. Is nice to have it but is not a MUST. Same with healer. Is nice /he may use reduce dmg dealing debuf to help his healings but is not his job to lower boss/mobs resistance. And there come dps/ the most "meh" role in this trio. In order to be good dps you need to deal dmg. To be able to deal dmg you need to lower boss resist. To be able to do so you need such skills on your bar. IF dpser are good players tank DONT need lower ress skills on bar because dpsers will have and use such one too.And they dont stack.So is better to tank to put some skill who benefit surviving /like aoe heal or shield or some cc skill/ instead to slot ressist debuf which DPSers in the grp MUST have.
I tried to chew it max before serv it to you. Hoppe this will help you do understand it.
And if you are dd and you stil blame tank for not using defence debuff/you are green player, troll or just tard.
So you literaly blame tank because 2 dd in grp was new players with no idea what they do. And he do right thing leaving.
Sorry

What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it.

You truly represent the eso comunity, atleast what left of it.
And using "smart" gifts wont make you smart.
The OP blame person who i`m sure carry them on his back, and then blame him when he left....
Juat another day in EsO right

UrQuan · November 2016

newtinmpls wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Have you seen him stream? Seriously, he's a scary demon kitty...

Is he fun? Is he personable? Does he actually 'splain things?

I used to try and learn from some of @Deltia 's videos - then ran into a few that were along the lines of "when you are with a perfectly optimized group" (with no explanation of what the heck that means, because apparently everyone who follows streamers knows this already) and the min-maxeness of it just lost me.

I became allergic to streamers when several-who-shall-not-be-named-by-me started claiming things that sounded a heck of a lot like sunlight was streaming out of parts unmentioned and that they and their ilk were the be-all and end-all of ESO greatness.

And then I happened to run into one of them by being ganked 3-4 times in a row in IC. I was about level 18 (something below 20) and this jerk who was CP a billion clearly went out of his/her way to troll me. Really? I could not possibly have been any kind of challenge. And I had no damn time to accumulate any telvar stones.

So likely no.... not much for streaming.

Anyway.. I'm still new to tanking, and this has been an interesting thread.

Yeah, Hero's a good streamer. I don't watch a lot of streamers because so many of them seem to be super arrogant and all about how l33t they are. In fact, I can count the number of streamers I would watch on one hand with one or two fingers left over. I would watch Hero if the demon kitty didn't freak me out...

I've actually run a couple of dungeons with him in the past and he was a fun guy to run with. And that was back when I was still pretty damn new to group dungeons and making all kinds of rookie mistakes, so that should give you a good idea of his attitude lol.

Egonieser · November 2016

newtinmpls wrote: »

Well, I thought the whole tone of the quoted chat was kind of snotty, myself, but maybe I'm over-sensitive.

Yesterday I was in a random non-vet (city of Ash II) and we couldn't get past Horvantud the Fire Maw.

I'm relatively new to healing, have an OK setup, but it's only for leveling; eventually want to respec to Blazing Shield - I'm playing an Orc, so it's not the best choice for healer. Usually I do okay. I'm working my second account up, he had only about 80 CP.

My partner is honing his tanking skills, and is working on his second tank build (he was playing an Orsimer, using at least 5pc thunderbug - can't recall the rest of the build).

Anyway, till then with two random, not especially chatty peeps (we'll offer skype, but rarely does anyone take us up on it), we were doing pretty good, by which I mean all the fights were going faster than expected.

Then Horvantund, bless his evil ground-shaking heart, just wiped us.

Tried a few different things, told the DPSs to stay closer (trying to heal through red) but without the lovely convenience of Skype, it wasn't working as "close enough".

At one point, my husband, who has more experience with healers in dire straits (my god you should see Fianna Kingsley - Breton Templar - she can heal through any damn thing), came over (we switched 'puters) but still no-go.

We even re-worked our bars, asked for suggestions, and after about 5 tries it was just not going to work.

So the group broke up.

No one yelled. No one was abusive. We wished each other luck, and went on our merry ways.

No drama. Just we didn't finish that dungeon.

I mention this because the "no drama" "tried to work it out and then went on our way" really does happen sometimes.

Did happen to me the first time I healed vCoA. The group was rather mediocre but being a healer (I only run dungeons on healer) I am too harsh on myself and I really thought it was me - not being able to outheal the sheer damage everyone was getting despite my best efforts. And like you, we all acknowledged the failure and happily left.

Not the case anymore, I can now keep even the worse of pugs afloat, keep them safe (minus obvious one-shot mechanics) and carry the dungeon on my own, DPS and tanking if it gets bad. I really love it, it's empowering. I will not kick people of they are doing poorly. I find it easier to carry them than to deal with the drama of it all. Not to mention it builds my skill as a healer and group support every time.

newtinmpls · November 2016

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

A stamnina tank have debuf by defoult/ pierce armor. Mag tank is NOT nesesery to run with debuf but smart ones do/ and i will tell you why. Becaus most of the time dpsers in the grp run with dmg skill only and then is damn slow to kill a boss/

Good point. If the DPS is "only" doing "damage" then they are only the most basic DPS.

Same with Tank; same with any role.

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

I wont hide it, i hate you kin alitle/ppl who tell others what they MUST do/.

And this point has, I think, been made and over-made. I do agree, tho.

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

since we dont have debuffer class all,

Well darnitall, it never occurred to me that could be a thing. OTOH that is exactly the way I ran my Magicka DK in IC while leveling him. I had two friends that would play there; Nord Stam DK and Breton Templar Not-really-a-healer - between them they could run around with impunity.

So I thought - since they are good, I won't try and beat anyone at their own role, I will just buff and debuff and talon the mobs and it worked great.

And I must warn you - posters on this forum will give you crap about not having perfect grammar.

They are being poop-heads. Just ignore them.

newtinmpls · November 2016

Axorn wrote: »

What about templar healer who refuses to use shards and repent while other 3 person is stamina user ? says : im not responsible your sustain... /kill

Again... is this discussed, requested, whatever?

I've run with groups like that and it's very nice when the healer is a templar and they are running shards (and the shards aren't glitching, but that's another story) and repentance. Don't know what the alternatives would be or how they would be planned out.

Francis_Toliver · November 2016

Baconfat79 wrote: »

Francis_Toliver wrote: »

The job is to pull agro. The support by buff or debuff is a function for ALL party members and what form the support takes is up to the character, not anyone else. A tank that uses Solar Prison is't suddenly "not a tank" (or a good tank) simply because they don't use the ultimate you think they ought to. A tank the makes sure igneous weapons is constantly up (for the +20% damage buff), but chooses not to debuff does not suddenly become a bad tank. They are pulling agro and supporting the party. You may not LIKE it. It may make your playing stile harder, but that's your problem, not the tanks.

That selfish attitude is the problem. You have buffs/debuffs available to you that will aid the entire group, but you choose not to use them. It doesn't make MY playing harder, it makes OUR playing harder. If you are playing in a group, then you should do whatever benefits the group the most. There is a reason that most tanks use Pierce Armor and Warhorn...they help the group as a whole. You say to keep igneous weapons up to help DPS. That's great, do it! It doesn't mean that you can't also use Pierce Armor to debuff...they aren't mutually exclusive. If you choose not to debuff the boss, you are passing up a chance to do something that benefits the entire group. Stop being selfish, and be a team player.

Hahahahahahahahaha

Curragraigue · November 2016

It is bizarre to me that a tank whether magicka or stamina would not use pierce armour. You want sword an board for the added mitigation, it is relatively cheap skill and applies for a fair period of time, provides a taunt and applies a breach for both physical and spell resistances. It is a total no brainer for me and is the mandatory skill on all of the magicka and stamina tanks I run in PvE.

Having said that the tank was taunting and there did not seem to be any issues with killing the boss so not sure why the healer needed to complain.

Doctordarkspawn · November 2016

code65536 wrote: »

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

why not run Ransack & Reaping Mark?

Minor Resolve isn't much--a mere couple percent of mitigation. Tanks typically have more than enough mitigation already. Furthermore, there are other sources of Minor Resolve, such as Combat Prayer from a healer or if you run Mirage as a nightblade tank, and these buffs don't stack. Using Pierce instead of Ransack is as much about the uselessness of Ransack as it is about the usefulness of Pierce.

As for Reaper's Mark, the main downside is that it's a separate skill. There's limited bar space, and in the heat of combat, it's simply easier to cast one skill to taunt and debuff instead of doing two casts. As for the side benefits, the assassination passives are not very useful for a tank, and the heal isn't that important since you already get so much healing from Funnel and Sap plus whatever heals are coming from the healer.

That said, I do run Reaper's Mark if I'm using the ranged taunt instead of the melee taunt. For example, for the final boss of FG2, I do all my taunts from range and use my Mark to handle debuffing the boss.

Honestly I run Ransack on my tank, but only because with it I reach armorcap with monster helms.

When the CP cap raises enough that I can hit it without it I'll likely go back to pierce armor. Magicka tanks that dont use pierce armor are actually lowering DPS, for group and themselves, since most of them are active ability-based, and are screwing their own sustain to boot.

Doctordarkspawn · November 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

As someone who also runs a magicka tank, this is one of those Pugs under the 'unfathomable stupidity' catagory.

Not your job to debuff? STFU and L2P. I didn't think I'd ever need to utter those words.

What do you think about dds that only spam one ability or healers that just shoot Breath of Life or Healing Springs without anything else? Technically both do damage and heals, so...

I think their not doing their job.

Spaming breath of life is *** distribution of heals and is about as effective as bailing out a ship with a bucket. Use of smart healing abilities allways tops it and gives the other roles time and space to do their jobs.

DD's who spam one ability and nothing else are not doing their job by default, DPS is raised by buffstaffing, dot stacking, then main attacks. The more they work at a rotation and the more that encompases the higher that DPS shoots. If your pulling -under- 10 K on anything but a final boss on vet? You are not doing your job.

A tank who keeps aggro and does not support his team through debuffs (Pierce armor and class specific buffs like Igneous, standard, what have you) is only doing half his job. That's my stance.

The difference, is you call it technically in the letter of the job, I define it by the spirit of the job. The spirit of the DD is to do as much damage as possible, their not. The spirit of a tank is to absorb damage and support his team, their not. The spirit of a healer is to heal the time smartly and give them room to do their jobs. Their not.

Dont know how i can make it any more plain.

raj72616a · November 2016

a tank needs to taunt, hold aggro, pull mobs to concentrate in a convenient position for the dps to AOE, block charged attacks, interrupt channel abilities, dodge instakill attacks, self heal, self sustain, buff the party if such skills are available, debuff mobs if such skills are available, off-heal if the healer is down, and help with dps in his spare time aside from above duties.

i tank. i can't do all of those, but i aspire to. so no, i don't think it's acceptable for a tank to just taunt, cast ward, and hold block.

idk · November 2016

xblackroxe wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

Smashington357 wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

> Honestly if you couldn't burn the boss without that minor debuff and had to make a forum post about this i feel sorry for your dps.

Eh, it's not exactly a minor debuff.

-30% Armor reduction, 30% magic armor reduction if you take pierce over ranksack.
-One of two taunts in the game
-Lasts for 15s
It's part of the S+B line, which is most common for tanks due to the amazing blocking passives.

I occasionally use the ranged taunt for enemies that aren't safe to approach. (Volenfall last boss, Ash II Titan boss) but Pierce Armor/Ransack is Substantially better than Inner Fire/Inner Beast.

Where are you getting 30%? Its a 8k debuff do you have a list of every bosses physical and spell resist? Because Ive never seen one. And at what point do you reach the armor penetration cap? I know there is one and factoring in my spell and armor penetration I'm sure im well past it and it becomes useless. I run sharpened as do most DPS plus CP and destruction staff passives I honestly don't see the debuff are useful. Not to the point of creating a forum post over a single pug if he held aggro then he did fine.

A taunt will reduce this by 8,000, or 16% additional damage taken.

1. Major Fracture and Breach a 5,2k, not 8000
2. Destruction staff passives are ONLY for destro staff abilities

Nevertheless is any tank not running these debufs in pve completely useless.

Again, we are talking about Fungal 2. His important is the debuff for such short boss fights.

We aren't talking about a leaderboard run in a vet trial. Most groups do not have those debuffs on the mage in vAA. Well, I expext most do not.

Are you for real?

I would not expect some pug tank to run alkosh/ebon or the healer to apply infallible or powerof the light on rach mob but a tank not running pierce armor? You sacrifice nothing using this skill as you need a taunt anyways so please.
Major Breach and Major Fracture are the most basic debuff that id expect even from a pug tank.

@xblackroxe

Umm yes, for real. I think the discussion the OP had is rather silly.

Ij a game that many 4 man dungeons do. It require a tank it's silly to have such a discussion about which which taunt a tank NEEDS to use in fungal grotto.

Good dps ain't gonna really care which taunt is used in fungal grotto. The. OSS is going to die fast regardless.

@cbaudersub17_ESO my statement is correct that the person you quoted is correct. It's easy to make a generalization like you did that covers the one in a million one off but it's also not very relevant to the conversation

This is not about neither about Fungal or vet dungeons or normal dungeons or whatever. Its also not about the dps being good or bad.

This is soley about tanks. And there is zero reason to run Inner Fire/Rage over Pierce Armor. And if you like Inner Fire/Rage soo much then use both. If a tank is only required to taunt and survive from your perspective than they will have enough spots on their bar for both anyways.

Then we clearly agree on taunt priority.

idk · November 2016

code65536 wrote: »

As for Reaper's Mark, the main downside is that it's a separate skill. There's limited bar space, and in the heat of combat, it's simply easier to cast one skill to taunt and debuff instead of doing two casts. As for the side benefits, the assassination passives are not very useful for a tank, and the heal isn't that important since you already get so much healing from Funnel and Sap plus whatever heals are coming from the healer.

That said, I do run Reaper's Mark if I'm using the ranged taunt instead of the melee taunt. For example, for the final boss of FG2, I do all my taunts from range and use my Mark to handle debuffing the boss.

Good point. However, if the tank moves away from the last boss it pulls her out of her deadly aoe allowing melee dps to do their work and the tank can still use pierce armor. The room is large enough to pull her both directions easily. Something tells me you already know this.

code65536 · November 2016

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Honestly I run Ransack on my tank, but only because with it I reach armorcap with monster helms.

Armor cap is overrated. No tank needs armor cap, and this is especially true after Thieves Guild. The CP revamp in that update means that there is now so much mitigation from the red tree that tanks can be well below the armor cap and be just fine. Furthermore, the most taxing trial--vMoL--has mechanics that will completely ignore your armor rating and kill you if you fail the mechanic.

The result of all this is that nobody cares about reaching the armor cap any more. You don't need it for any content in the game, and the opportunity cost of reaching the armor cap in terms of gear and skill choices is too high to justify the negligible benefit.

code65536 · November 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Good point. However, if the tank moves away from the last boss it pulls her out of her deadly aoe allowing melee dps to do their work and the tank can still use pierce armor. The room is large enough to pull her both directions easily. Something tells me you already know this.

And this is exactly why I prefer the ranged taunt for that fight. I need to range her to pull her out of the AoE. A traditional tank would typically use both taunts for that fight: one for when you're kiting, and one for debuffing. A nightblade tank has the luxury of doing the debuff from range.

EvilCroc · November 2016

I don't like visual effect or pierce armor. Theese light purple particles are awful. Ransack is neutral and matches all classes visual style. So no, armor debuff is not tank's job.

DannyLV702 · November 2016

You should send him a link to this thread lol

Mojmir · November 2016

DoccEff wrote: »

Just another rant about a bad pug...

Yesterday's pledge, Fungal 2, me playing as a healer.
My group: 2 dds, cp around 250, doing the dungeon for the first time, and a tank with 580cp and 48k Hp.

At the second boss, Gamyne Bandu (the one that chains you down), I notice that she boss doesn't get the armour debuff. One DD was stam-based, and my ele drain was just debuffing her spell resistance.

After that I asked the tank, if he could please use pierce armour to debuff the boss.

The following dialogue, transcribed from the screenshot I took:

- Tank: "whick skill should i need to debuff xD?"
- Me: "the one hand shield taunt?"
- Tank: "mag tank"
- Tank: "its not my job to debuf"
- Me: "it is your job"
- Tank: "i also can deal damage"
- Tank: "but thats not my job"
- Me: "it is" (was refering to debuffing)
- Me: "all tanks in this game use it"
- Me: "i give you stam back with shards"
- Tank: "ok then have fun to find a real tank "

Then he left the group.

This guy had 580cp, which means he must have played this game for quite a while. But still, he obviously thought that he was right, when he said it's not the tanks job to debuff.
Usually, Hp numbers like 48k already make me cringe. But this guy topped it. gg.

Just to make it clear: He was just holding aggro with the magicka taunt and didn't debuff the boss, nor did he do any dps that would be worth mentioning. Yes, we could habe probably still completed the dungeon, and we didn't kick him, it was him who left, probably thinking what a fool that healer (me) must have been.

We then got a new tank pretty quick (also around 250cp and new to the dungeon), and completed the dungeon together. It wasn't the fastest run, since the others weren't that experienced, but it was still fun, because I saw that they were trying to follow the hints I gave them. If one of you reads this, thanks again.

--->TLDR:
Tank with 580cp and 48k hp said it wasn't his job to use pierce armour to debuff the boss' resistance. Then he left the group by himself, and I got just another bad pug-experience to share here.

Was he using a bow too? Lol

Apokalypt · November 2016

I am a CP 330 DK Stamtank. I am able to tank vAA and vHRC (haven`t tried Sanctum and MoL on veteran yet)
Whenever I am in a dungeon, no matter if it is a "speedrun" on normal or a vet clear. I ALWAYS do all the tank jobs!

I hold aggro, I gather all mobs with chains, I debuff most of them etc.
So I guarantee, that I almost never make mistakes, no matter the circumstances. Everything below vAA is a no-fail zone for me. And I am not even max CP.

IMO a good tank, does all of these things in every group dungeon. It shows routine, experience and dedication. Also it makes the group happier when you can clear the dungeons faster.

And not to forget, 4-man dungeons even on vet (non-dlc) are faceroll for good tanks, it is easy to do all group supports and tank stuff without breaking a sweat....

xblackroxe · November 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

Smashington357 wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

> Honestly if you couldn't burn the boss without that minor debuff and had to make a forum post about this i feel sorry for your dps.

Eh, it's not exactly a minor debuff.

-30% Armor reduction, 30% magic armor reduction if you take pierce over ranksack.
-One of two taunts in the game
-Lasts for 15s
It's part of the S+B line, which is most common for tanks due to the amazing blocking passives.

I occasionally use the ranged taunt for enemies that aren't safe to approach. (Volenfall last boss, Ash II Titan boss) but Pierce Armor/Ransack is Substantially better than Inner Fire/Inner Beast.

Where are you getting 30%? Its a 8k debuff do you have a list of every bosses physical and spell resist? Because Ive never seen one. And at what point do you reach the armor penetration cap? I know there is one and factoring in my spell and armor penetration I'm sure im well past it and it becomes useless. I run sharpened as do most DPS plus CP and destruction staff passives I honestly don't see the debuff are useful. Not to the point of creating a forum post over a single pug if he held aggro then he did fine.

A taunt will reduce this by 8,000, or 16% additional damage taken.

1. Major Fracture and Breach a 5,2k, not 8000
2. Destruction staff passives are ONLY for destro staff abilities

Nevertheless is any tank not running these debufs in pve completely useless.

Again, we are talking about Fungal 2. His important is the debuff for such short boss fights.

We aren't talking about a leaderboard run in a vet trial. Most groups do not have those debuffs on the mage in vAA. Well, I expext most do not.

Are you for real?

I would not expect some pug tank to run alkosh/ebon or the healer to apply infallible or powerof the light on rach mob but a tank not running pierce armor? You sacrifice nothing using this skill as you need a taunt anyways so please.
Major Breach and Major Fracture are the most basic debuff that id expect even from a pug tank.

@xblackroxe

Umm yes, for real. I think the discussion the OP had is rather silly.

Ij a game that many 4 man dungeons do. It require a tank it's silly to have such a discussion about which which taunt a tank NEEDS to use in fungal grotto.

Good dps ain't gonna really care which taunt is used in fungal grotto. The. OSS is going to die fast regardless.

@cbaudersub17_ESO my statement is correct that the person you quoted is correct. It's easy to make a generalization like you did that covers the one in a million one off but it's also not very relevant to the conversation

This is not about neither about Fungal or vet dungeons or normal dungeons or whatever. Its also not about the dps being good or bad.

This is soley about tanks. And there is zero reason to run Inner Fire/Rage over Pierce Armor. And if you like Inner Fire/Rage soo much then use both. If a tank is only required to taunt and survive from your perspective than they will have enough spots on their bar for both anyways.

Then we clearly agree on taunt priority.

On what exactly do we agree? I didn't say this was my view. All I said was if your view on things is that a tank should only taunt and survive then there is even less of an excuse not use pierce armor on your bars because you dont have anything else on them anyways.

Enslaved · November 2016

As someone who have both stamina and magicka tank builds I must say that if you do not debuff, you do not do your job as it should be done. I can understand that tank is not wearing ebon in regular dungeons, but if you do not warhorn and debuff you ain't really tanking.

G0ku · November 2016

Smashington357 wrote: »

Honestly if you couldn't burn the boss without that minor debuff and had to make a forum post about this i feel sorry for your dps. You're talking about Fungal Grotto thats faceroll easy get over it. Most tanks use the morph that buff their physical resistance and most DPS i run with are magika so i'm not even sure how it helps you.

G0ku · November 2016

Woeler wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

Smashington357 wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

> Honestly if you couldn't burn the boss without that minor debuff and had to make a forum post about this i feel sorry for your dps.

Eh, it's not exactly a minor debuff.

-30% Armor reduction, 30% magic armor reduction if you take pierce over ranksack.
-One of two taunts in the game
-Lasts for 15s
It's part of the S+B line, which is most common for tanks due to the amazing blocking passives.

I occasionally use the ranged taunt for enemies that aren't safe to approach. (Volenfall last boss, Ash II Titan boss) but Pierce Armor/Ransack is Substantially better than Inner Fire/Inner Beast.

Where are you getting 30%? Its a 8k debuff do you have a list of every bosses physical and spell resist? Because Ive never seen one. And at what point do you reach the armor penetration cap? I know there is one and factoring in my spell and armor penetration I'm sure im well past it and it becomes useless. I run sharpened as do most DPS plus CP and destruction staff passives I honestly don't see the debuff are useful. Not to the point of creating a forum post over a single pug if he held aggro then he did fine.

A taunt will reduce this by 8,000, or 16% additional damage taken.

1. Major Fracture and Breach a 5,2k, not 8000
2. Destruction staff passives are ONLY for destro staff abilities

Nevertheless is any tank not running these debufs in pve completely useless.

Tanks are useless in 4 man dungeons

WalksonGraves · November 2016

code65536 wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

If i see a 50k healt tank i roll my eyes regardess the use of debuffs or not.

You realize how stupid that sounds? Hp only takes away from resource pools. Most tank abilities only scale in damage so if you have resource management handled you can use hp as a dump stat. Don't assume you know every build.

And resource pools don't matter?! Stamina for blocking. Max stamina governs how much stamina is returned by Helping Hands for DKs. But the resource that too many tanks overlook is magicka: chains, talons, etc. My DK tank runs with 28K magicka. What that means is that I can chain a lot of enemies. It means I can liberally cast Deep Breath for AoE interrupts. It means that I can spam Igneous, which allows me to sustain stamina with zero help from the healer, allows me to stay alive even if the healer is down (I can basically eat damage equivalent to my shield with every cast, and I can do a lot of casts because of a deep magicka pool, and that gives me better survivability than a tank with a large static health pool), and Igneous spam also keeps those around the tank alive too.

I run with robust resource pools--28K magicka, 19K stamina, and 30K health--which means that I can provide a lot of utility without any hand-holding from the healer. Tanks who cripple their resource pools not only lack the resources to be useful, but also require more resource sustain help from the healer.

Tanking in ESO is a resource game. You can be an adequate tank with an oversized health pool. But you can't be a good tank.

Your mistake is thinking tank = dk. Dks have *** resource management.

Gargath · November 2016

Woeler wrote: »

There are too many "tanks" in this game that have no clue.

Oh and ransack is for dummies. Be a man, use pierce armor ffs.

For dummies you say?
So for what situations the Ransack is better?

xblackroxe · November 2016

Gargath wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

There are too many "tanks" in this game that have no clue.

Oh and ransack is for dummies. Be a man, use pierce armor ffs.

For dummies you say?
So for what situations the Ransack is better?

PVE? None
PVP? Every

Doctordarkspawn · November 2016

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Honestly I run Ransack on my tank, but only because with it I reach armorcap with monster helms.

Armor cap is overrated. No tank needs armor cap, and this is especially true after Thieves Guild. The CP revamp in that update means that there is now so much mitigation from the red tree that tanks can be well below the armor cap and be just fine. Furthermore, the most taxing trial--vMoL--has mechanics that will completely ignore your armor rating and kill you if you fail the mechanic.

The result of all this is that nobody cares about reaching the armor cap any more. You don't need it for any content in the game, and the opportunity cost of reaching the armor cap in terms of gear and skill choices is too high to justify the negligible benefit.

@code65536

So what would you say is around the armor to shoot for while going all in on hardy and elemental defender? I'm just curious. I like second opinions.

I'm just talking general ballpark, 30 K, 31 K, what? What's the armor point where you should start going all in on Hardy and Elemental Defender?

Glamdring · November 2016

Really OP? FG2? just burn the bosses down.

Tonnopesce · November 2016

WalksonGraves wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

If i see a 50k healt tank i roll my eyes regardess the use of debuffs or not.

You realize how stupid that sounds? Hp only takes away from resource pools. Most tank abilities only scale in damage so if you have resource management handled you can use hp as a dump stat. Don't assume you know every build.

And resource pools don't matter?! Stamina for blocking. Max stamina governs how much stamina is returned by Helping Hands for DKs. But the resource that too many tanks overlook is magicka: chains, talons, etc. My DK tank runs with 28K magicka. What that means is that I can chain a lot of enemies. It means I can liberally cast Deep Breath for AoE interrupts. It means that I can spam Igneous, which allows me to sustain stamina with zero help from the healer, allows me to stay alive even if the healer is down (I can basically eat damage equivalent to my shield with every cast, and I can do a lot of casts because of a deep magicka pool, and that gives me better survivability than a tank with a large static health pool), and Igneous spam also keeps those around the tank alive too.

I run with robust resource pools--28K magicka, 19K stamina, and 30K health--which means that I can provide a lot of utility without any hand-holding from the healer. Tanks who cripple their resource pools not only lack the resources to be useful, but also require more resource sustain help from the healer.

Tanking in ESO is a resource game. You can be an adequate tank with an oversized health pool. But you can't be a good tank.

Your mistake is thinking tank = dk. Dks have *** resource management.

Agree that tanks are not only DK's but as i read the only tank that benefits from a large health pool are templars But what group support skills this type of tank have?
As a dk i can give a lot of buffs/debuffs and with a single warhorn cast i can refill my resource pool entirely while helping the whole group.
A mag Templar tank can stay alive ok but then?

DRXHarbinger · November 2016

Axorn wrote: »

What about templar healer who refuses to use shards and repent while other 3 person is stamina user ? says : im not responsible your sustain... /kill

Because repentance if you're a healer does very little. If you're a max stam build you get a much much bigger boost and you're right in the middle of the fight where are the healer won't be in range in most cases.

It is definitely better to run repentance on a stam dps. Give it a test and see how much more stam you get back.