Tank: "It's not my job to debuff." Yeah, right...

newtinmpls · November 2016

Soundwave wrote: »

I love to tank, but never got use to blocking attacks. I rather just stAnd there and take it, or just play my dps or healer.

I'm so "just learning" that skill.

I am usually rotating a taunt, and a few other things, and trying to get the hang of watching the "move" that signals the attack. Sometimes I get it.

Sometimes not.

I love my healer.

and Yes, I married her (see my sig).

Francis_Toliver · November 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Smashington357 wrote: »

You are wrong. It is not a tanks job to debuff. It is a tanks job to pull agro. Everything else is nice, but not part of the job's description. Just like it is not part of a healers job to restore resources. A healers job is to heal. Anything on top of that is nice, and a good healer will offer other perks, just like a good tank will offer other support to the group, but what that support is, well, that's up to the tank (or healer etc.)

The fact that you are unable to play in a group unless all members follow your idea of what they should do says a lot about you (nothing nice) and little about them. Was he holding agro? Was he holding agro on the archers and mages on the outskirts of the mobs? Then he was doing his job.

One has to ask, micro manage much?

No that's not how job markets work. It's a job of a good tank. If a tank is not doing that - then he's a bad tank and the group has moral right to - and will - complain.

Other than that, you are right. That's not something that makes the clear impossible. It's just a sign of a bad tank.

DoccEff wrote: »

Since there are still people commenting here, who didn't read or understand my whole comment, here's another summary:

- The tank never lost aggro on the boss. He even aggroed all the four adds that spawn sometimes, so I could res the dead dds. Nothing to criticise about this part.
.

Not so fast, maybe there's something to criticize about. Why were DDs dead by the time adds spawned??

Knowing the fight I'd guess the 2 DPS got tethered together, didn't run away from each other quick enough and went boom. @DoccEff am I right?

Just to point out that the poster here quoted two posts and the question about why the DD's were dead is not mine.

My only point was that pulling agro is the job of a tank. Supporting the party is the job of every party member. How each party member does this is up to them and not dictated by DoccEff or any other person in the game. While I choose to use pierce, as a tank, if someone doesn't, it doesn't make them a "bad tank" as Docceff suggests. As long as they are pulling agro and supporting the party (in whatever way they choose) then they are doing what needs to be done.

Now, is it easier if all tanks use the same skills? Sure then no one has to ask if this debuff or that buff is covered. But to be outraged enough post on the forums because some tank isn't playing the way I think he should? Childish, narrow minded and rigid are all words that come to mind.

Most times when someone starts talking in absolutes and uses phrases like "if not then he's a BAD TANK" <snicker>, I start thinking, "really? I mean REALLY?" So it's impossible to play a good tank without pierce <g>. Sounds a bit calcified to me.

Doctordarkspawn · November 2016

As someone who also runs a magicka tank, this is one of those Pugs under the 'unfathomable stupidity' catagory.

Not your job to debuff? STFU and L2P. I didn't think I'd ever need to utter those words.

code65536 · November 2016

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

If i see a 50k healt tank i roll my eyes regardess the use of debuffs or not.

You realize how stupid that sounds? Hp only takes away from resource pools. Most tank abilities only scale in damage so if you have resource management handled you can use hp as a dump stat. Don't assume you know every build.

And resource pools don't matter?! Stamina for blocking. Max stamina governs how much stamina is returned by Helping Hands for DKs. But the resource that too many tanks overlook is magicka: chains, talons, etc. My DK tank runs with 28K magicka. What that means is that I can chain a lot of enemies. It means I can liberally cast Deep Breath for AoE interrupts. It means that I can spam Igneous, which allows me to sustain stamina with zero help from the healer, allows me to stay alive even if the healer is down (I can basically eat damage equivalent to my shield with every cast, and I can do a lot of casts because of a deep magicka pool, and that gives me better survivability than a tank with a large static health pool), and Igneous spam also keeps those around the tank alive too.

I run with robust resource pools--28K magicka, 19K stamina, and 30K health--which means that I can provide a lot of utility without any hand-holding from the healer. Tanks who cripple their resource pools not only lack the resources to be useful, but also require more resource sustain help from the healer.

Tanking in ESO is a resource game. You can be an adequate tank with an oversized health pool. But you can't be a good tank.

newtinmpls · November 2016

Francis_Toliver wrote: »

Now, is it easier if all tanks use the same skills? Sure then no one has to ask if this debuff or that buff is covered.

Oh.

Thank you.

I just had my brain snap as to why some people really really really like the fact that there is a "meta".

I guess I'm weird. I like he conversation at the beginning of the dungeon about "is anyone running glowy weapons" and "Do we have talons and encase" (otherwise known as "who does the first lockdown on mobs") and such.

Highstake · November 2016

DoccEff wrote: »

Just another rant about a bad pug...

Yesterday's pledge, Fungal 2, me playing as a healer.
My group: 2 dds, cp around 250, doing the dungeon for the first time, and a tank with 580cp and 48k Hp.

At the second boss, Gamyne Bandu (the one that chains you down), I notice that she boss doesn't get the armour debuff. One DD was stam-based, and my ele drain was just debuffing her spell resistance.

After that I asked the tank, if he could please use pierce armour to debuff the boss.

The following dialogue, transcribed from the screenshot I took:

- Tank: "whick skill should i need to debuff xD?"
- Me: "the one hand shield taunt?"
- Tank: "mag tank"
- Tank: "its not my job to debuf"
- Me: "it is your job"
- Tank: "i also can deal damage"
- Tank: "but thats not my job"
- Me: "it is" (was refering to debuffing)
- Me: "all tanks in this game use it"
- Me: "i give you stam back with shards"
- Tank: "ok then have fun to find a real tank "

Then he left the group.

This guy had 580cp, which means he must have played this game for quite a while. But still, he obviously thought that he was right, when he said it's not the tanks job to debuff.
Usually, Hp numbers like 48k already make me cringe. But this guy topped it. gg.

Just to make it clear: He was just holding aggro with the magicka taunt and didn't debuff the boss, nor did he do any dps that would be worth mentioning. Yes, we could habe probably still completed the dungeon, and we didn't kick him, it was him who left, probably thinking what a fool that healer (me) must have been.

We then got a new tank pretty quick (also around 250cp and new to the dungeon), and completed the dungeon together. It wasn't the fastest run, since the others weren't that experienced, but it was still fun, because I saw that they were trying to follow the hints I gave them. If one of you reads this, thanks again.

--->TLDR:
Tank with 580cp and 48k hp said it wasn't his job to use pierce armour to debuff the boss' resistance. Then he left the group by himself, and I got just another bad pug-experience to share here.

Past week we were doing vet darkshade, tank said: "i tank", also right after: "i dont rez ppl". Its cool when we know what we are able or not to do...

UrQuan · November 2016

Francis_Toliver wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Did he keep the boss taunted?
Did you kill the boss?

I don't see thst much of an issue here.

He might not run the debuff to give your team a damage boost, but most of us can adapt to different builds. Some bosses may take longer due to group makeup and mechanics, but as long as they die I'm the end it really doesn't matter too much.

I also don't know what the OP'S attitude to this player was but I would give a word of caution to anyone brow beating folks into a meta. Be kind and offer help when folks ask for help, adjust your builds to suit the group, and don't tell folks "how" to play unsolicited, you're being toxic and it sucks to deal with you.

We're here to have fun after all, not to be micromanaged because you red a guide or because your friends did it in a certain way.

Awesome....just so correct in such a succinct post.

You're my hero

NO! He's not your hero! He's the Hero of NONE!!!

And he's also a scary demon kitty...

newtinmpls · November 2016

code65536 wrote: »

Tanking in ESO is a resource game. You can be an adequate tank with an oversized health pool. But you can't be a good tank.

I wish I could recall the thread where a NB was asking what to do about a Blazing Shield Templar in PvP and how to kill them. Most of the thread boiled down to "Not likely. Good luck with that."

UrQuan · November 2016

Francis_Toliver wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Smashington357 wrote: »

You are wrong. It is not a tanks job to debuff. It is a tanks job to pull agro. Everything else is nice, but not part of the job's description. Just like it is not part of a healers job to restore resources. A healers job is to heal. Anything on top of that is nice, and a good healer will offer other perks, just like a good tank will offer other support to the group, but what that support is, well, that's up to the tank (or healer etc.)

The fact that you are unable to play in a group unless all members follow your idea of what they should do says a lot about you (nothing nice) and little about them. Was he holding agro? Was he holding agro on the archers and mages on the outskirts of the mobs? Then he was doing his job.

One has to ask, micro manage much?

No that's not how job markets work. It's a job of a good tank. If a tank is not doing that - then he's a bad tank and the group has moral right to - and will - complain.

Other than that, you are right. That's not something that makes the clear impossible. It's just a sign of a bad tank.

DoccEff wrote: »

Since there are still people commenting here, who didn't read or understand my whole comment, here's another summary:

- The tank never lost aggro on the boss. He even aggroed all the four adds that spawn sometimes, so I could res the dead dds. Nothing to criticise about this part.
.

Not so fast, maybe there's something to criticize about. Why were DDs dead by the time adds spawned??

Knowing the fight I'd guess the 2 DPS got tethered together, didn't run away from each other quick enough and went boom. @DoccEff am I right?

Just to point out that the poster here quoted two posts and the question about why the DD's were dead is not mine.

Huh? No, I quoted one post, and it wasn't yours. The post that I quoted included quotes from two other posts, but neither of them was yours either. I'm just a little confused as to why you felt you needed to point out that you weren't involved in that...

dbrand001 · November 2016

Tank: I didnt know I was supposed to hold block.

Baconfat79 · November 2016

I get that some ppl want to play their way, and don't want to told what to do. That's fine. The point still stands that you should be doing whatever is in your power to help the group as a whole. If you have the ability to debuff a boss, why would you not do so? "I don't wanna" is not a valid argument. Would you rather fight a boss with 18k resistance or fight a boss with 13k resistance? It's as simple as that.

Francis_Toliver · November 2016

Baconfat79 wrote: »

Francis_Toliver wrote: »

Baconfat79 wrote: »

In these 4-man dungeons, it absolutely is the tank's job to provide debuffs...and also to provide Warhorn as often as possible. Tanking is more than just taunting the boss and staying alive. If you disagree with that, you are a bad tank. Why would you not want to do everything possible to help your group perform better?

Your assumption that the only support a tank can give are those things you have listed is erroneous. Yes, a good tank will offer more support then simply taunting enemies, but the fact that you think you have the one true and only right way to offer that support is....funny.

When did I say that those things are the only support a tank can give? Oh, right...I didn't. Learn to read.

You are correct, you did not say these were the only support a tank can give. You said a tank's job is to provide debuffs and warhorn as often as possible.

It isn't.

A tank that doesn't pvp will not have warhorn and in a 4 man dungeon is not required to have it as per the description of a tank. A tank that chooses to add buffs instead of debuffs is also a tank as per the job description. The job is to pull agro. The support by buff or debuff is a function for ALL party members and what form the support takes is up to the character, not anyone else. A tank that uses Solar Prison is't suddenly "not a tank" (or a good tank) simply because they don't use the ultimate you think they ought to. A tank the makes sure igneous weapons is constantly up (for the +20% damage buff), but chooses not to debuff does not suddenly become a bad tank. They are pulling agro and supporting the party. You may not LIKE it. It may make your playing stile harder, but that's your problem, not the tanks.

@Elloa is a good example of a healer that stopped running a templar simply because she didn't want to be a resource battery. She runs a DK healer and so she doesn't have to hear the whining about not offering shards or repentance. Is she a good healer? Yep. Does she heal as per the meta's idea of what a healer should do? Don't know or care. She gets the job done. The specifics are up to her. If you want a resource battery don't run with a DK healer. If you do, and expect to get your resources from them you will be disappointed.

In either case, the idea of coming on the forums and posting how ignorant they are because the don't do it your way, well that's just silly.

SienneYviete · November 2016

71c9f53b65ff7a31fdb75e706b3ad0fc181961d52699562c3d8db2a82b8ee303.jpg

learn 2 tank

newtinmpls · November 2016

Francis_Toliver wrote: »

[
You're my hero

UrQuan wrote: »

NO! He's not your hero! He's the Hero of NONE!!!

And he's also a scary demon kitty...

Hmm...sounds adorable.

UrQuan · November 2016

newtinmpls wrote: »

Francis_Toliver wrote: »

[
You're my hero

UrQuan wrote: »

NO! He's not your hero! He's the Hero of NONE!!!

And he's also a scary demon kitty...

Hmm...sounds adorable.

Have you seen him stream? Seriously, he's a scary demon kitty...

code65536 · November 2016

newtinmpls wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Tanking in ESO is a resource game. You can be an adequate tank with an oversized health pool. But you can't be a good tank.

I wish I could recall the thread where a NB was asking what to do about a Blazing Shield Templar in PvP and how to kill them. Most of the thread boiled down to "Not likely. Good luck with that."

This is a thread about PvE tanking. I don't see the relevance of bringing in PvP tanking which has very different objectives and very different enemies.

That said, blazing shield tanks do work in PvE (and is arguably the only type of oversized-health tank that makes sense), but they are still less effective at supporting the group than a high-resource tank.

(And I will reiterate what I said earlier in the thread, since the discussion has segued somewhat: The tank in the OP was wrong, but a random dungeon group is not the appropriate place for the OP to press unsolicited advice like that.)

newtinmpls · November 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Have you seen him stream? Seriously, he's a scary demon kitty...

Is he fun? Is he personable? Does he actually 'splain things?

I used to try and learn from some of @Deltia 's videos - then ran into a few that were along the lines of "when you are with a perfectly optimized group" (with no explanation of what the heck that means, because apparently everyone who follows streamers knows this already) and the min-maxeness of it just lost me.

I became allergic to streamers when several-who-shall-not-be-named-by-me started claiming things that sounded a heck of a lot like sunlight was streaming out of parts unmentioned and that they and their ilk were the be-all and end-all of ESO greatness.

And then I happened to run into one of them by being ganked 3-4 times in a row in IC. I was about level 18 (something below 20) and this jerk who was CP a billion clearly went out of his/her way to troll me. Really? I could not possibly have been any kind of challenge. And I had no damn time to accumulate any telvar stones.

So likely no.... not much for streaming.

Anyway.. I'm still new to tanking, and this has been an interesting thread.

Tryxus · November 2016

Some pics of my Tank Phantasm of Tryxus, with just the food buff:

Stats:

Skills (ohoh, look what I'm running on my front bar: Pierce Armor. Handy huh?

)

Now why am I showing this? Because I build this tank based around 3 main principles that other very exp tanks have taught me:

- Taunting: Having both the ranged taunt Inner Fire as well as the melee Pierce Armor are ofc must have. Espec Pierce Armor since it provides very useful debuffs that I can apply while taunting. So I really don't see why a tank shouldn't slot and use this (other than being stubborn)
- Resource Management (special mention, Houligan

I was paying attention while you explained this to someone else in the guild back then): A tank needs to squeeze out as much Resources as possible, hence it's better to go for a 5-1-1 setup for the Undaunted passives as well as running full Infused gear with tri-stat glyphs. As a tank you need Stam for blocking and Magicka for buffs and support while ofc having a solid Health pool
- Group Support: as a tank, you're on the front lines while the DPSers focus on their rotation and squeeze out as much damage as possible while the healer focuses on keeping everyone alive. This leaves it up to the tank to provide the necessary support to the group members as well as any additional debuff you can apply to the boss

And I build this tank around these ideas: I have both taunts on both my bars (even as a Magicka tank, the melee taunt is a must have), I'm wearing full Infused Tri-Stat armor with 5pc Seducer for Magicka Management and Siphoning Attacks for Stamina management and I provide support for the group with Ebon, Warden, heals from Refreshing Path and Sap Essence, Minor Maim debuff from Shade, etc...

This is what tanking is all about: the group support should be there on a tank so that the DPSers can focus on their rotation and the healer on keeping everyone alive. The debuffing is in the tank's job description.

Baconfat79 · November 2016

Francis_Toliver wrote: »

Baconfat79 wrote: »

Francis_Toliver wrote: »

Baconfat79 wrote: »

In these 4-man dungeons, it absolutely is the tank's job to provide debuffs...and also to provide Warhorn as often as possible. Tanking is more than just taunting the boss and staying alive. If you disagree with that, you are a bad tank. Why would you not want to do everything possible to help your group perform better?

Your assumption that the only support a tank can give are those things you have listed is erroneous. Yes, a good tank will offer more support then simply taunting enemies, but the fact that you think you have the one true and only right way to offer that support is....funny.

When did I say that those things are the only support a tank can give? Oh, right...I didn't. Learn to read.

You are correct, you did not say these were the only support a tank can give. You said a tank's job is to provide debuffs and warhorn as often as possible.

It isn't.

A tank that doesn't pvp will not have warhorn and in a 4 man dungeon is not required to have it as per the description of a tank.

I am a tank that doesn't PvP. I devoted 5 hours over the course of a weekend to unlocking Warhorn, and my groups perform better because of it. Is it "required?" No. Does it help the entire group? Absolutely.

Baconfat79 · November 2016

Francis_Toliver wrote: »

The job is to pull agro. The support by buff or debuff is a function for ALL party members and what form the support takes is up to the character, not anyone else. A tank that uses Solar Prison is't suddenly "not a tank" (or a good tank) simply because they don't use the ultimate you think they ought to. A tank the makes sure igneous weapons is constantly up (for the +20% damage buff), but chooses not to debuff does not suddenly become a bad tank. They are pulling agro and supporting the party. You may not LIKE it. It may make your playing stile harder, but that's your problem, not the tanks.

That selfish attitude is the problem. You have buffs/debuffs available to you that will aid the entire group, but you choose not to use them. It doesn't make MY playing harder, it makes OUR playing harder. If you are playing in a group, then you should do whatever benefits the group the most. There is a reason that most tanks use Pierce Armor and Warhorn...they help the group as a whole. You say to keep igneous weapons up to help DPS. That's great, do it! It doesn't mean that you can't also use Pierce Armor to debuff...they aren't mutually exclusive. If you choose not to debuff the boss, you are passing up a chance to do something that benefits the entire group. Stop being selfish, and be a team player.

Oompuh · November 2016

I'm way too lazy to read through 5 pages about what a tank's job is. A tank's job is to hold agro and take the boss's damage, that is correct. BUT THATS NOT ENOUGH. If you dont buff, debuff, cc, maim, and support your group with heals and resources, you aren't tanking to your full potential and your group should get someone who can, enough said.

newtinmpls · November 2016

Baconfat79 wrote: »

That selfish attitude is the problem. You have buffs/debuffs available to you that will aid the entire group, but you choose not to use them. It doesn't make MY playing harder, it makes OUR playing harder. If you are playing in a group, then you should do whatever benefits the group the most. There is a reason that most tanks use Pierce Armor and Warhorn...they help the group as a whole. Stop being selfish, and be a team player.

Really...?

Since he never once mentioned the skills/rotations/build that he actually uses, you have no idea how he tanks, what buffs/debuffs he applies.

If you want to say "I take thus and such way" then by all means do. I think @Tryxus did a lovely job a few posts up.

If you want to ask "what is/are your builds/rotations as a tank, by all means ask.

The current (and I suppose it's not "current") meta is to maximize one "active" stat (i.e. you see people referring to "magicka this" and "stamina that"). So I could (theoretically) see a sorc/magicka/pet/tank build where they poured everything into pets, shields, used Resto staff to maximize magicka return/regen and so on. Possibly the magicka taunt would be better for that build. Don't know, haven't tried it.

And if the group already has (from whoever) the same buffs/debuffs that the S&B taunt does, then maybe it would be better not to use it - to be doing something ELSE such that the total support of the group is still good.

I do not think there is one true right and only way to ... anything.

Baconfat79 · November 2016

ITT: more bads than I can count.

Caligamy_ESO · November 2016

@Tryxus

Nice NB tank,

this is actually my favorite class/build to play right now, and looks like we've got similar setups except I am Stamina based with Magicka Recovery from mundus. Out of curiosity why not run Ransack & Reaping Mark? You get the major fracture and major breach for 20 seconds, assassination passives, and healing/major berserk for a moment when your mark dies.

Runkorko · November 2016

DoccEff wrote: »

Just another rant about a bad pug...

Yesterday's pledge, Fungal 2, me playing as a healer.
My group: 2 dds, cp around 250, doing the dungeon for the first time, and a tank with 580cp and 48k Hp.

At the second boss, Gamyne Bandu (the one that chains you down), I notice that she boss doesn't get the armour debuff. One DD was stam-based, and my ele drain was just debuffing her spell resistance.

After that I asked the tank, if he could please use pierce armour to debuff the boss.

The following dialogue, transcribed from the screenshot I took:

- Tank: "whick skill should i need to debuff xD?"
- Me: "the one hand shield taunt?"
- Tank: "mag tank"
- Tank: "its not my job to debuf"
- Me: "it is your job"
- Tank: "i also can deal damage"
- Tank: "but thats not my job"
- Me: "it is" (was refering to debuffing)
- Me: "all tanks in this game use it"
- Me: "i give you stam back with shards"
- Tank: "ok then have fun to find a real tank "

.

A stamnina tank have debuf by defoult/ pierce armor. Mag tank is NOT nesesery to run with debuf but smart ones do/ and i will tell you why. Becaus most of the time dpsers in the grp run with dmg skill only and then is damn slow to kill a boss/
I wont hide it, i hate you kin alitle/ppl who tell others what they MUST do/. I dont know about your mmo xp but djudging of the way you think is not much or you learn slow. Let me help you with 3 of 4 rolles in the game / since we dont have debuffer class all, this can be done from any dd tank or healer but.... About tank role- tank need to hold agro and survive when healer is CCed or busy to outheal some dd or himself when step on ***/or aoe hits/ Do this incuding debuff? no. Is nice to have it but is not a MUST. Same with healer. Is nice /he may use reduce dmg dealing debuf to help his healings but is not his job to lower boss/mobs resistance. And there come dps/ the most "meh" role in this trio. In order to be good dps you need to deal dmg. To be able to deal dmg you need to lower boss resist. To be able to do so you need such skills on your bar. IF dpser are good players tank DONT need lower ress skills on bar because dpsers will have and use such one too.And they dont stack.So is better to tank to put some skill who benefit surviving /like aoe heal or shield or some cc skill/ instead to slot ressist debuf which DPSers in the grp MUST have.
I tried to chew it max before serv it to you. Hoppe this will help you do understand it.
And if you are dd and you stil blame tank for not using defence debuff/you are green player, troll or just tard.
So you literaly blame tank because 2 dd in grp was new players with no idea what they do. And he do right thing leaving.
Sorry

alexkdd99 · November 2016

Smashington357 wrote: »

DoccEff wrote: »

And there they are, the people who probably didn't even read all of my post and defend a player who has obviously no idea how to play, doesn't take any advice on it, and then leaves the group with a cheeky wink-smiley...

Its an easy dungeon you didn't have to try and dictate everything the guy does. IF he held aggro you were just power tripping. I've seen tanks that don't even taunt count your blessings

How was he "power tripping"? The guy left on his own. Also just because there are worse tanks does not make this one good.

Lazy tank is what the guy was plain and simple.

Dictate everything the guy does by asking him to debuff the boss? Exaggerating aren't we?

Edit: also all these people are acting as if op kicked the guy. Asking a tank who is only using 1 skill plus block to use 2 skills is not much. Stop being so lazy people. I always encourage people to ask if they want me to use something different. The guy was simply lazy and didn't want to do anything.

SublimeSparo · November 2016

Tonnopesce wrote: »

If i see a 50k healt tank i roll my eyes regardess the use of debuffs or not.

You'd love my blazing shield tank then lol. 65- 70k hp
Maintains Major Fracture & Breach and Minor Fracture up pretty much 100%,
doesn't need healing or purging, is pretty much unkillable and can res quickly if everyone is down
Buffs group with ebon and minor sorcery
Pumps out Aggressive warhorns using Invigorating drain and major heroism and from using ritual and PotL
Pulls pretty crazy aoe dps and decent single target ( for a tank )

Really fun to play

So easy to tank Cradle of shadows hm on it's comedy, can even res the whole team if needed lol

code65536 · November 2016

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

why not run Ransack & Reaping Mark?

Minor Resolve isn't much--a mere couple percent of mitigation. Tanks typically have more than enough mitigation already. Furthermore, there are other sources of Minor Resolve, such as Combat Prayer from a healer or if you run Mirage as a nightblade tank, and these buffs don't stack. Using Pierce instead of Ransack is as much about the uselessness of Ransack as it is about the usefulness of Pierce.

As for Reaper's Mark, the main downside is that it's a separate skill. There's limited bar space, and in the heat of combat, it's simply easier to cast one skill to taunt and debuff instead of doing two casts. As for the side benefits, the assassination passives are not very useful for a tank, and the heal isn't that important since you already get so much healing from Funnel and Sap plus whatever heals are coming from the healer.

That said, I do run Reaper's Mark if I'm using the ranged taunt instead of the melee taunt. For example, for the final boss of FG2, I do all my taunts from range and use my Mark to handle debuffing the boss.

SienneYviete · November 2016

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

DoccEff wrote: »

Just another rant about a bad pug...

Yesterday's pledge, Fungal 2, me playing as a healer.
My group: 2 dds, cp around 250, doing the dungeon for the first time, and a tank with 580cp and 48k Hp.

At the second boss, Gamyne Bandu (the one that chains you down), I notice that she boss doesn't get the armour debuff. One DD was stam-based, and my ele drain was just debuffing her spell resistance.

After that I asked the tank, if he could please use pierce armour to debuff the boss.

The following dialogue, transcribed from the screenshot I took:

- Tank: "whick skill should i need to debuff xD?"
- Me: "the one hand shield taunt?"
- Tank: "mag tank"
- Tank: "its not my job to debuf"
- Me: "it is your job"
- Tank: "i also can deal damage"
- Tank: "but thats not my job"
- Me: "it is" (was refering to debuffing)
- Me: "all tanks in this game use it"
- Me: "i give you stam back with shards"
- Tank: "ok then have fun to find a real tank "

.

A stamnina tank have debuf by defoult/ pierce armor. Mag tank is NOT nesesery to run with debuf but smart ones do/ and i will tell you why. Becaus most of the time dpsers in the grp run with dmg skill only and then is damn slow to kill a boss/
I wont hide it, i hate you kin alitle/ppl who tell others what they MUST do/. I dont know about your mmo xp but djudging of the way you think is not much or you learn slow. Let me help you with 3 of 4 rolles in the game / since we dont have debuffer class all, this can be done from any dd tank or healer but.... About tank role- tank need to hold agro and survive when healer is CCed or busy to outheal some dd or himself when step on ***/or aoe hits/ Do this incuding debuff? no. Is nice to have it but is not a MUST. Same with healer. Is nice /he may use reduce dmg dealing debuf to help his healings but is not his job to lower boss/mobs resistance. And there come dps/ the most "meh" role in this trio. In order to be good dps you need to deal dmg. To be able to deal dmg you need to lower boss resist. To be able to do so you need such skills on your bar. IF dpser are good players tank DONT need lower ress skills on bar because dpsers will have and use such one too.And they dont stack.So is better to tank to put some skill who benefit surviving /like aoe heal or shield or some cc skill/ instead to slot ressist debuf which DPSers in the grp MUST have.
I tried to chew it max before serv it to you. Hoppe this will help you do understand it.
And if you are dd and you stil blame tank for not using defence debuff/you are green player, troll or just tard.
So you literaly blame tank because 2 dd in grp was new players with no idea what they do. And he do right thing leaving.
Sorry

What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it.

Julianos · November 2016

What about templar healer who refuses to use shards and repent while other 3 person is stamina user ? says : im not responsible your sustain... /kill