Here's Why I Think One-Shot Mechanics and More HP is a good thing.

Phica_Lovic · October 2016

Disclaimer: I am not defending nor throwing ZoS under-the-bus for this topic title. This is not meant to trigger anyone, even though it will. This post is MY opinion and it is only an opinion, but as most gamers go, reading this will do probably nothing if you are set in hating this Update already. For the rest of you, the 10% of reasonable gamers, please give my arguments a listen.

We'll start with the Ridiculously high HP bosses as that is the easiest point to cover.

Bosses with millions of health-points:
Why would they do this? Because we meta-gamed so ridiculously hard, that most players simply burned through every boss, and had no idea what-the-f--k mechanics were. I've been running the new pledges lately, and an astounding number of High CP players who are experienced in the old veteran trials do not know the mechanics for the easy, normal ones. I'm talking about Vaults of Madness - the Mad Architect's 2 aoes (one is stay inside, the other is get outside, and his tells are noticeable, but not obvious), The Trinity, etc. etc.
With this increase in health, even the super-crazy dps have to take their time with the bosses and the bosses are able to actually use the skills they were given to make the dungeon difficult.

Much of this point bleeds into the second, and tougher argument:

One-shot mechanics:
I will outright say that having one-shot mechanics in any normal-mode dungeon, any delve, and even any over-land boss is absolute bull. These should not be that hard, as they are designed and aimed towards lower level players, casuals, solo-ers, and people that just want a quick, easy dungeon.
What I am referring to is that they are not only good to have, but helpful to the player-base of high dps, high CP players who consider themselves gods in this game. This is referring to those who do the Vet / hardmode dungeons, and trials.

A good example: Spindle-clutch I's final boss: The Whisperer, has not 1 but 2 one-shot mechanics (not counting the red AOE, don't be dumb - standing in red should get you killed). She throws out a ranged stun (a blue glow) and she also throws out a web-attack (it looks similar to green spit). She also has subtle, but noticeable tells for this, and these require you to either block or dodge-roll.

Before Update 12, if you got hit by something you'd take a 15k hit, and be down to 3-5k (tanks withstanding) and the healer simply casts 1 ability once or (maybe) twice and you are back at 100%. Any healer unable to do this isn't a really great healer by our standards, and even 50/50 split healers/dps are able to do this.

Without the One-Shot mechanics, this sad, burn the boss, ignore every block, every dodge roll, and every stun would continue for eternity because our healers are just good at their jobs.

Now, to summarize:
Should ZoS have added more mechanics? Maybe. But why? We didn't even know the mechanics we had right in front of us, and everyone I know thinks that the new Shadows of the Hist dungeons are too mechanic heavy.
This HP-buff, and 1-shot addition fix that dilemma. They both, in conjunction with each other, allow us to actually pay attention to the fight that we see in front of us and learn mechanics like STOPPING DPS when a snake coils, or DODGE ROLLING when a melee boss tosses something your way.

I think that NONE of these things are too difficult to ask of us. I think that the inability for dps (mostly dps complaints) to block, dodge-roll, or even stop f--king attacking is laughably sad. Being a good DPS or healer shouldn't be judge by the 20k single heal you can toss, or 30k per sec rotation you have that your fingers memorized months ago. Dungeons should keep us on our toes, and before Update 12, Tanks were the only ones even REMOTELY pulling their weight around.

Maybe I'm defending the game too adamantly, or maybe I'm actually liking what I see changing in the game. I would go as far to say that ZoS intended these things to change by using these tools, instead of the assumed laziness that I continuously hear from the player base.

So thank you ZoS, for expecting more of us than just spamming BoL and rofl stomping through bosses so fast that we can't even see their initial attacks. I will be virtuously attempting to meet those expectations, teaching new players the same, and hoping that one day we make this content also look like a joke, so that you in return can set an even higher bar for us to meet.

Phica_Lovic · October 2016

I'll also note that I thought General was a better place to post this than Dungeons, etc. because I do reference the one-shot stuff on overland, and such.

ArchMikem · October 2016

So youre saying normal dungeon bosses shouldnt be able to one shot you?

Phica_Lovic · October 2016

ArchMikem wrote: »

So youre saying normal dungeon bosses shouldnt be able to one shot you?

Yes, 100%. Normal should be normal, and Vet should be vet.

Drummerx04 · October 2016

A valid point, but I wonder if the same one shot mechanic mentality should also apply to full mitigated tanks holding block with 32k health and still dying instantly (selene bear attack).

I suppose in the end expecting the tank to actually dodge a few attacks isn't super unreasonable either, but still. The Possessed Mantikora in vSO - a 12 man veteran trial - doesn't hit as hard as Selene in a 4 man dungeon.

Asardes · October 2016

Yesterday we had a very inexperienced max CP DD in our pledges group. First dungeon was VCoS. He died quite a lot, in Khephidaen AoE, in some trash pulls along the way. We did the boss hard mode and pulled it trough somehow although he was dead for most of the fight. The fact that he was basically the only one dying is pretty telling that he didn't know/pay attention to the mechanics. Many people don't know/care about the dungeon mechanics and just relied on their DPS to finish them until now. It's good that some bosses have more HP and hit harder now, and some of them take reduced damage or even no damage during some phases.

Taylor_MB · October 2016

Could not agree more, more HP and more damage force you to actually pay attention instead of just pumping out your best rotation. As a tank I've had a lot of fun saving groups from wipes cause they all get 1-shotted by untauntable attacks. It is going to suck when I go back to my dps though, apart from the things I've picked up while tanking, I'm going to have to relearn a lot of mechanics.

Phica_Lovic · October 2016

Drummerx04 wrote: »

A valid point, but I wonder if the same one shot mechanic mentality should also apply to full mitigated tanks holding block with 32k health and still dying instantly (selene bear attack).

I suppose in the end expecting the tank to actually dodge a few attacks isn't super unreasonable either, but still. The Possessed Mantikora in vSO - a 12 man veteran trial - doesn't hit as hard as Selene in a 4 man dungeon.

I agree, but all a tank has to do is dodge roll, and some of the best tanks I've witnessed are dodge-rollers, instead of block, block, block, block, block, taunt, block, block, block.

Alucardo · October 2016

I'm totally fine with one shot abilities, as long as there is a good indication of when it's about to happen. Sometimes the circle is well hidden. For example, and this isn't a dungeon, but there's a world boss in Reaper's I think. He does the whole red AOE circle, and if you stand in it when it explodes, you're basically dead (if you have no shield and you're not a tank). The thing is, with all the other fire on the ground, it can be REALLY hard to see the tell. I find that kind of stuff a bit unfair. With him I generally guess when he's about to do it and stand out of the way while I watch a bunch of other people perish to his invisible instagib mechanic.

Mojmir · October 2016

2 points

1.) I appreciate the mechanics now of the normal dungeons a bit more,honestly I'm guilty of burning through them.BTW the mad architect's mechanics are hands down awesome!!! It feels like an epic fight.

2.) One shot mechanics I think are a reminder to players from the devs,that the age of glass cannons is coming to an end.I can't reccomend enough to these guys to slot harness magicka.

dsalter · October 2016

the problem is how long will it take till the CP and gear powercreep will make dungeons burnable like before? that was the main reason they were so easy to do to begin with.

Phica_Lovic · October 2016

dsalter wrote: »

the problem is how long will it take till the CP and gear powercreep will make dungeons burnable like before? that was the main reason they were so easy to do to begin with.

Well gear is still cp160 gear, and can only go up to gold. and 30 pts an update? Maybe a few months to a year? Then they'll just adjust things again, but that's all hypotheticals. I prefer to talk about the present, rather than get upset about potential future updates.

Taylor_MB · October 2016

Drummerx04 wrote: »

A valid point, but I wonder if the same one shot mechanic mentality should also apply to full mitigated tanks holding block with 32k health and still dying instantly (selene bear attack).

I suppose in the end expecting the tank to actually dodge a few attacks isn't super unreasonable either, but still. The Possessed Mantikora in vSO - a 12 man veteran trial - doesn't hit as hard as Selene in a 4 man dungeon.

Maybe it will force tanks to spec more heavily into tanking instead of also being expected to dps?

My blazing shield templar can survive Selena's bear and an enraged atro in vICP, with shield + block. All it takes is 1 BoL from healer and back to full HP (although I did end up dodging Selena, much easier and it's good it ads variety to strategies).

dsalter · October 2016

Phica_Lovic wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

the problem is how long will it take till the CP and gear powercreep will make dungeons burnable like before? that was the main reason they were so easy to do to begin with.

Well gear is still cp160 gear, and can only go up to gold. and 30 pts an update? Maybe a few months to a year? Then they'll just adjust things again, but that's all hypotheticals. I prefer to talk about the present, rather than get upset about potential future updates.

get where you come from but without some sort of "barrier" AKA soft caps, the power creep WILL run it's course anew. maybe next update? maybe next year? it only takes some small pushes every so often to shift things

Vildebill · October 2016

Agree fully on all your arguments. So many groups you have run with that doesn't know mechanics just because bosses are so nukeable nowadays. A lot of the dungeon bosses has great mechanics that is really fun, i hate skipping them.

And the best part with the new SotH dungeons that were so ranted on is the one shot mechanics, that you HAVE to learn and avoid them to be able to complete it. Sure, normal dungeons can be the catered cakewalk people want, but the vet ones should be as hard as these new ones, or like the old vet dungeons were when they were released.

Carbonised · October 2016

One shotting and millions of hp bosses are still only covering up the fundamental flaw of this game that consists of no caps and a stack and burn meta that has been here since forever.

And while large hp pools don't bother me too much, I'm not a fan of the various one shotting mechanisms at all. I find them stressful, punishing, and many people will make you feel horrible if you die to them even once or twice.

If I were to redesign the dungeons and their mechanisms, I would focus a lot more on the importance of tactics and intelligent setup.

We have so many different ways to spec now, and it's sort of "anything goes, max DPS is most important". I would rather see some dungeons having heavy resistances. Some to physical, some to fire, some to frost etc. I'm even saying this as a magDK whose only attacks are flame. Everyone has a possibility to switch a few skills around and have an entirely new setup. With my magdk I could use those class skills that are not fire based, I could switch for a frost or lightning staff and use my weapon line, I could eqip a resto staff and go offhealing etc.

Other dungeons would have heavy crit resistances, some would have very high physical resistances, or spell resistances (requiring high penetration), while others would have very little (meaning high penetration would be wasted here). Some would require mostly aoe's while others would require mostly single targets.

The possibilities are many, and with a set up that was more in favour of intelligent tactics and skill/weapon swapping, you would actually have to change your setup for the various dungeons and trials, instead of perhaps changing 1 or 2 skills around at most, and go with your usual 2 bar 5 skill rotation in each and every dungeon in this game. The variety alone would make for a much more enjoyable experience for me than various hoop jumping mechanisms or one shotters.

Phica_Lovic · October 2016

Carbonised wrote: »

One shotting and millions of hp bosses are still only covering up the fundamental flaw of this game that consists of no caps and a stack and burn meta that has been here since forever.

And while large hp pools don't bother me too much, I'm not a fan of the various one shotting mechanisms at all. I find them stressful, punishing, and many people will make you feel horrible if you die to them even once or twice.

If I were to redesign the dungeons and their mechanisms, I would focus a lot more on the importance of tactics and intelligent setup.

We have so many different ways to spec now, and it's sort of "anything goes, max DPS is most important". I would rather see some dungeons having heavy resistances. Some to physical, some to fire, some to frost etc. I'm even saying this as a magDK whose only attacks are flame. Everyone has a possibility to switch a few skills around and have an entirely new setup. With my magdk I could use those class skills that are not fire based, I could switch for a frost or lightning staff and use my weapon line, I could eqip a resto staff and go offhealing etc.

Other dungeons would have heavy crit resistances, some would have very high physical resistances, or spell resistances (requiring high penetration), while others would have very little (meaning high penetration would be wasted here). Some would require mostly aoe's while others would require mostly single targets.

The possibilities are many, and with a set up that was more in favour of intelligent tactics and skill/weapon swapping, you would actually have to change your setup for the various dungeons and trials, instead of perhaps changing 1 or 2 skills around at most, and go with your usual 2 bar 5 skill rotation in each and every dungeon in this game. The variety alone would make for a much more enjoyable experience for me than various hoop jumping mechanisms or one shotters.

Vet dungeons and vet content should be punishing. I believe that is the point of end-game. No caps and burn meta have little to nothing to do with what I was talking about, and I think you went off on your own tangent about what you'd like to see implemented.

To argue against you, having dungeons with high crit resistances or any resistances at all would render some people useless. They can't respec right there, or maybe they dont want to change around their CP if a random dungeon pops. Some DKs can only use disease, and others can only use flame. What? Have a flame DK with a flame set, carry around a frost staff? NO thanks.

EDIT: People would not only have to carry around new sets that avoid crit or any damage proc at all (flame sets specifically) and people would be constantly learning and re-learning their rotations. Why not just learn to block and dodge roll?

Asardes · October 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

2.) One shot mechanics I think are a reminder to players from the devs,that the age of glass cannons is coming to an end.I can't recommend enough to these guys to slot harness magicka.

If it's oneshot it doesn't matter if you have 17-18K - typical DD, 26.6K - my tank build, with 0 points in health or 45K health - tanks that put most of their points in health. It's still one shot. So you can be a "glass cannon" and still survive if you pay attention and counter the mechanics. There's no harness magicka for stamina builds - those have to dodge. And even harness magicka damage shield can't save you from most one shot attacks, especially if they are physical.

One interesting example is Mighty Chudan's spit attack. It's one shot or close to that even if it's blocked. But it can be reflected, with devastating results. My DK tank simply flaps its wings at that, and a few days ago I saw a 195K crit on her in the combat scrolling text (I don't use addons yet). The crit is +50% so it was something like ~120K without the critical multiplier, because I also have about 20 points in precise strikes. Dragon fire scale adds 20% to the damage. So the base damage was around 100K, since bosses can't crit. Mitigation from resistance is at most 50% so even the 45K health tank would have killed at once if not blocking. And the boss does 4-5 of those attacks in rapid succession, so unless the healer spams BoL at the tank all the way he will go down unless he dodges or reflects them. Reflect is better though, because it causes huge damage. I once took 1/3 of the health of the ghost version of the same boss during Na-Kesh fight, because the DDs were occupied with other things, probably blowing the statue and some runaway adds - most were CCd by me.

WhiteMage · October 2016

I've been farming for rattlecage lately (vVoM) and my greatest (only?) source of entertainment is watching my group-mates get 1-shotted by either of his two simple mechanics. I don't explain it unless someone explicitly asks for it and in more than 30 runs, only 2 have asked. All sorts of people have gotten killed, some 500+, but many sub-300. The 500+ players learn real quick that standing wherever is bad while it can take the others a few tries. It's my favorite boss in the game and I never get tired of watching the glass shatter... though I probably shouldn't take so much joy out of watching my group-mates die given I'm the healer.

There was a VO stam DD (who died once) that said "Wow, they added new mechanics to this fight? Awesome!" I laughed telling him there were no new mechanics, he was just used to burning the boss before it ever got a chance to appear.

Many excellent changes to the "new" vet dungeons for the most part. It was very nice to see a group that breezed through the dungeon struggle on the hard mode boss in Spindle1 when the periodic stun would 1-shot the dps. It was very refreshing to come up with a strategy on the fly even when the group was so stellar before that point. What we ended up doing is stand at 90 degree angles of the boss and when she would turn to face someone, they dodge to avoid the attack. Worked like a charm.

Phica_Lovic · October 2016

WhiteMage wrote: »

I've been farming for rattlecage lately and my greatest (only?) source of entertainment is watching my group-mates get 1-shotted by either of his two simple mechanics. I don't explain it unless someone explicitly asks for it. All sorts of people have gotten killed, some 500+, but many sub-300. The 500+ players learn real quick that standing wherever is bad while it can take the others a few tries. It's my favorite boss in the game and I never get tried of watching the glass shatter... though I probably shouldn't take so much joy out of watching my group-mates die given I'm the healer.

There was a VO stam DD (who died once) that said "Wow, they added new mechanics to this fight? Awesome!" I laughed telling him there were no new mechanics, he was just used to burning the boss before it ever got a change to appear.

Many excellent changes to the "new" vet dungeons for the most part. It was very nice to see a group that breezed through the dungeon struggle on the hard mode boss in Spindle1 when the periodic stun would 1-shot the dps. It was very refreshing to come up with a strategy on the fly even when the group was so stellar before that point. What we ended up doing is stand at 90 degree angles of the boss and when she would turn to face someone, they dodge to avoid the attack. Worked like a charm.

^ This. This is exactly what should be happening. Problem and a solution. I also did the same in the Mad Architect fight, it's hilarious.

Gargath · October 2016

One-Shot mechanics is fine, if only we'd have some counter mechanics we could use against. Roll-dodge isn't best option at least not in all situations. Bash and interrupt seems the best.
A good example is Blackheart Heaven dungeon and the boss First Mate Wavecutter, if tank (or anyone close enough) will not interrupt his attack, boss can wipe all group in one shot. He does this special bending move before attack which can be bashed easily - bot not all people still know that. Yesterday I was a healer in group and had to bash this boss myself once the tank died because he didn't know the mechanics. Even when we killed boss and I explained the rules, tank was surprised he was one-shot. That was his explanation for his death, that he was unable to respond - wrong.
So yes, I like the one-shot mechanics but need a clear knowledge of how to avoid these attacks or what to do to prevent them. Some bosses aren't so predictable like the First Mate Wavecutter, sadly.

FrostFallFox · October 2016

I just feel bad for people who can't rofl stomp.

Asardes · October 2016

Yep, some interrupts are unpredictable in effect. For example the penultimate boss in VCoS, Dranos Valedor. I indeed bash him and he interrupts his attack, but he still does plenty of damage. Also this boss has the curious habit of skidding on the floor once he's bash interrupted. Also Velidreth does a heavy attack that can sometimes be interrupted, but still does a lot of damage. I've been one shotted by that one countless times. If I have low health I simply roll dodge it. IMO Velidreth is by far the hardest dungeon boss to tank because of this.

Rune_Relic · October 2016

Nothing unreasonable in your thoughts OP.

Ultra casual here.
I have no objection to one shot mechanics....BUT....
Normal modes need obvious, exaggerated telegraphs...
...so learners recognise the telegraphs and can stay alive easy enough by roll or block.
Moving to vet, those telegraphs should be speeded up and toned down.

Essentially thats the only thing that should really seperate VET and NORMAL IMHO.
That way, new players are familiar with everything, but they have to be on their toes and concentrate more or they will wipe.
They have to coordinate better or they will wipe.

Thats where experience, training and skill comes into the equation for vet players and content.
Timing, observation and understanding should become much much more important.
You still have to (need to) be able to learn all this beforehand though.

SanderBuraas · October 2016

I am not very fond of being one-shot by a boss. However, if the skills were reworked to be damage over time or have the damage output be spread across several projectiles, it would be fine.

For the damage over time variant, you can survive, but it requires a lot of healing during. As for the multiple projectiles, if you block and/or dodge most of them, you will also survive.

Carbonised · October 2016

Phica_Lovic wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

One shotting and millions of hp bosses are still only covering up the fundamental flaw of this game that consists of no caps and a stack and burn meta that has been here since forever.

And while large hp pools don't bother me too much, I'm not a fan of the various one shotting mechanisms at all. I find them stressful, punishing, and many people will make you feel horrible if you die to them even once or twice.

If I were to redesign the dungeons and their mechanisms, I would focus a lot more on the importance of tactics and intelligent setup.

We have so many different ways to spec now, and it's sort of "anything goes, max DPS is most important". I would rather see some dungeons having heavy resistances. Some to physical, some to fire, some to frost etc. I'm even saying this as a magDK whose only attacks are flame. Everyone has a possibility to switch a few skills around and have an entirely new setup. With my magdk I could use those class skills that are not fire based, I could switch for a frost or lightning staff and use my weapon line, I could eqip a resto staff and go offhealing etc.

Other dungeons would have heavy crit resistances, some would have very high physical resistances, or spell resistances (requiring high penetration), while others would have very little (meaning high penetration would be wasted here). Some would require mostly aoe's while others would require mostly single targets.

The possibilities are many, and with a set up that was more in favour of intelligent tactics and skill/weapon swapping, you would actually have to change your setup for the various dungeons and trials, instead of perhaps changing 1 or 2 skills around at most, and go with your usual 2 bar 5 skill rotation in each and every dungeon in this game. The variety alone would make for a much more enjoyable experience for me than various hoop jumping mechanisms or one shotters.

Vet dungeons and vet content should be punishing. I believe that is the point of end-game. No caps and burn meta have little to nothing to do with what I was talking about, and I think you went off on your own tangent about what you'd like to see implemented.

To argue against you, having dungeons with high crit resistances or any resistances at all would render some people useless. They can't respec right there, or maybe they dont want to change around their CP if a random dungeon pops. Some DKs can only use disease, and others can only use flame. What? Have a flame DK with a flame set, carry around a frost staff? NO thanks.

EDIT: People would not only have to carry around new sets that avoid crit or any damage proc at all (flame sets specifically) and people would be constantly learning and re-learning their rotations. Why not just learn to block and dodge roll?

There are different means of achieving "punishment" One shot mechanism and circus hhoop jumping, like Cradle and Velidreth, isn't the only one, you know. And judging from the response, many people don't like those mechanisms either, especially when you spice it up with RNG mazes.

Accept that some people disagree with you. I don't like one shotting mechanisms. I find them stressful, and I play this game to relax, not to be stressed out. Not all of us are adrenaline junkies, and I would like to advocate for a system that required more deliberate thought in terms of finding out your own builds strengths and weaknesses, the strengths of weaknesses of various dungeons, and then matching those. I mean, when was the last time someone ever changed their skills, gear or rotation out for anything? You wear the same gear and use the same skills and rotation for pretty much everything in this game. It's boring.

Go play anything DnD based, there's a gaming system that knew how to apply that (Baldur's Gate etc).

And caps and burn meta has everything to do with what you write here. If it weren't for this, we wouldn't have seen all the inflated HP pools and 1-shot mechanisms and Hist dungeon mechanics overload, as it wouldn't have been necessary without it.

And no, it would not render "some people useless" That's hyperbole and just plain wrong. I play as a MagDK, I know what I'm talking about. Yet, even if a boss had 100 % flame immunity, I bet you I could change stuff around somewhat easily and still be of use. Not all my skills are flame based, some deal magic damage. You switch your flame staff out for a frost or lightning, and suddenly you have an entire weapon line not flame based. It's even easier for other classes and stam builds that have more options.

Yes, it would require you to perhaps look into mroe sets than chasing the same 2-3 BiS over and over again.

Yes, it would mean you had to explore some skills and setups you usually scoff at as useless, since perhaps they might just have some use against specific enemies.

Yes, it would mean changing your skill bar around every now and then, instead of relying on the same old rotation that your fingers know in your sleep.

And yes, I believe that would be a much more interesting system, and provide more variation than what we see now.
And it wouldn't even require HP pools through the roof or 1-shot mechanisms.

PS: and before someone goes off into their knee-jerk "l2p" response to everything, I do know how to play, and how to avoid one shots in this game. VoM last boss is among the easiest ones, really. I farmed there 10+ times a day last couple of days. Just because I know how to "l2p" most dungeons, and are actually decent at it, doesn't mean I find it entertaining or fun at all.

Phica_Lovic · October 2016

Gargath wrote: »

One-Shot mechanics is fine, if only we'd have some counter mechanics we could use against. Roll-dodge isn't best option at least not in all situations. Bash and interrupt seems the best.
A good example is Blackheart Heaven dungeon and the boss First Mate Wavecutter, if tank (or anyone close enough) will not interrupt his attack, boss can wipe all group in one shot. He does this special bending move before attack which can be bashed easily - bot not all people still know that. Yesterday I was a healer in group and had to bash this boss myself once the tank died because he didn't know the mechanics. Even when we killed boss and I explained the rules, tank was surprised he was one-shot. That was his explanation for his death, that he was unable to respond - wrong.
So yes, I like the one-shot mechanics but need a clear knowledge of how to avoid these attacks or what to do to prevent them. Some bosses aren't so predictable like the First Mate Wavecutter, sadly.

That is true, I agree. But before update 12 there were at LEAST 2 of these 1 shot boss bash mechanics (not counting CoS, which I find to be difficult AND mechanic heavy, maybe even borderline too much). But one of these one shot boss BASH mechanics IS actually in blackheart haven, (the one with all hagravens, she throws a huge purple one-shot at the entire group) so that mechanic ISN'T new, and isn't even new to the dungeon.

DocFrost72 · October 2016

Wholehearted agree from me OP. You specifically had me when you said that normal dungeons should not one shot. I get difficulty needs to exist, and that is why we have vet dungeons and hardmode challenges. Normal dungeons (after 1T) are actually a GREAT way to train new players. Teaching them how to read bosses, why not to stand in the stupid, and how to effectively target prioritize in trash packs will serve them, and their eventual group mates, far better than "stack, burn, lol, move on".

Phica_Lovic · October 2016

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Wholehearted agree from me OP. You specifically had me when you said that normal dungeons should not one shot. I get difficulty needs to exist, and that is why we have vet dungeons and hardmode challenges. Normal dungeons (after 1T) are actually a GREAT way to train new players. Teaching them how to read bosses, why not to stand in the stupid, and how to effectively target prioritize in trash packs will serve them, and their eventual group mates, far better than "stack, burn, lol, move on".

Thank you for your input. I am a firm believer that normal should stay normal because Elder Scrolls (not that ESO isn't great and attract new players) is a specific series that people will always want to "pick-up" and there ALWAYS needs to be an easy path / low-road for those players to take and learn.

mrs_gibbs · October 2016

WhiteMage wrote: »

There was a VO stam DD (who died once) that said "Wow, they added new mechanics to this fight? Awesome!" I laughed telling him there were no new mechanics, he was just used to burning the boss before it ever got a chance to appear.

I thought you were talking about me for a second. lol. I ran this a couple days ago and seen the glass shatter and ghosts for the first time. I had NO idea that boss had those mechanics. I thought they added them with One Tamriel. There were really cool! Probably my favorite attack in the game now.

idk · October 2016

I agree adding HP to the bosses is a good thing. The dungeons were far to easy.

As for mechanics, I'm glad the latest additions to the 4 man dungeons are mechanic driven. The 4 man group is a team that must work together and this merely strengthens that. Although the older dungeons are fine as they are. Having to deal with mechanics while still dishing out the damage/heals strengthens a players skills.

I have one seem a one shot mechanic in a normal dungeon that is not easily avoidable. OPs example using Spindleclutch, boss only one shots players who allow it. It's avoidable. It's a mechanic and an easy me to work with.