FIXING SHUFFLE AND THE HEAVY ARMOR META

Xinthisis · October 2016

I'm sure there are a myriad of posts on the overperformance of stam builds, heavy armor, and shuffle/dodge chance in general. Here are a couple of changes that will fix the issues:

Make all armor skill line abilities usable only when wearing 5 pieces of that armor type. (no 5 medium, no shuffle)
Give all dodge chance a 1 second cooldown, so that players aren't dodging 4-5 attacks in a row based on luck.
Reduce the duration of shuffle to 6 seconds, if the other changes mentioned above aren't feasible.
Reevaluate the damage, sustain, and overall utility that Blackrose gives to players in pvp. I have a separate forum post discussing that sets overperformance here.

Let me know what you all think.

SRIBES · October 2016

ya

SRIBES · October 2016

Hail traveler, have you come to test your girth and length against my hand?

PrinceFabious · October 2016

If number 1 is implemented, you dont need the other ideas. 1 is all you need to fix stam

Xinthisis · October 2016

@SRIBES yeye

Xinthisis · October 2016

PrinceFabious wrote: »

If number 1 is implemented, you dont need the other ideas. 1 is all you need to fix stam

Yup, I agree. I just had to put multiple options in for discussions sake.

Ernest145 · October 2016

They should also consider a nerf to the unchained cp passive, right now it is one of the main reason a lot of builds can sustain so easily while stacking so much into damage and little to no regen.

Taylor_MB · October 2016

When you can still heavy attack + ult from stealth and instantly kill someone, the problem isn't with the tank meta.

HoloYoitsu · October 2016

I thought u were gona say to add more 1 shot undodgeable procs to break through dat heavy armor.

I am disappoint.

Xinthisis · October 2016

Ernest145 wrote: »

They should also consider a nerf to the unchained cp passive, right now it is one of the main reason a lot of builds can sustain so easily while stacking so much into damage and little to no regen.

Also a good point. I agree, it seems unchained has been in game so long that we overlook its strength.

Xinthisis · October 2016

Taylor_MB wrote: »

When you can still heavy attack + ult from stealth and instantly kill someone, the problem isn't with the tank meta.

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

I thought u were gona say to add more 1 shot undodgeable procs to break through dat heavy armor.

I am disappoint.

Thats only the highlights, you guys dont see when that 1 shot build fail ganks and gets slaughtered. lol

OdinForge · October 2016

I particularly agree with number 1.

Xinthisis · October 2016

@OdinForge yup, fastest most balanced fix imo.

olsborg · October 2016

#1 there is the solution to alot of the problems with the meta of today.

Xinthisis · October 2016

olsborg wrote: »

#1 there is the solution to alot of the problems with the meta of today.

Agreed

Jsmalls · October 2016

I agree with 1 and 3. ZoS specifically said they want players to choose to be offensive or defensive at times in the fight. This was the reason for the damage shield nerf.

So it's only fair that Stamina is given the same treatment. You want to mitigate damage using shuffle? That's fine, you have 6 seconds for it while you are mainly going defensive, but by the time you're going offensive it'll run out.

But yeah the heavy armor mitigation, plus 20% dodge chance, plus larger heals, plus decent resource sustain is a little extreme for heavy armor. #1 would be a nice touch.

Xinthisis · October 2016

@Wrobel Please take a look at this.

leepalmer95 · October 2016

PrinceFabious wrote: »

If number 1 is implemented, you dont need the other ideas. 1 is all you need to fix stam

I still don't enjoy going to light attack, ransack, bash someone and them shuffle dodging my light attack and then auto dodging my ransack + bash because for some reason when you dodge you dodge everything for like 0.5s....

Xinthisis · October 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

PrinceFabious wrote: »

If number 1 is implemented, you dont need the other ideas. 1 is all you need to fix stam

I still don't enjoy going to light attack, ransack, bash someone and them shuffle dodging my light attack and then auto dodging my ransack + bash because for some reason when you dodge you dodge everything for like 0.5s....

Thats precisely why I mentioned the one second cooldown.

DKsUnite · October 2016

PrinceFabious wrote: »

If number 1 is implemented, you dont need the other ideas. 1 is all you need to fix stam

it also kills magicka DK... do you want to punish us further?

unless Wrobel finally decides to give us major evasion on cinder storm again....

NBrookus · October 2016

DKsUnite wrote: »

PrinceFabious wrote: »

If number 1 is implemented, you dont need the other ideas. 1 is all you need to fix stam

it also kills magicka DK... do you want to punish us further?

unless Wrobel finally decides to give us major evasion on cinder storm again....

It would also be a serious nerf to pve tanks.

jhharvest · October 2016

How would the point #1 fix stam?

It would affect heavy armour (needed) and light armour (already the weakest), leaving medium (stam burst DPS) where it is. Am I missing something here?

kadar · October 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

I particularly agree with number 1.

I agree, let's make that change. What are potential drawbacks? Tanks, and magicka dps cannot then use the medium armor skill shuffle. Should they have ever been allowed to in the first place?

Asgari · October 2016

6 second shuffle would be useless..

The first idea is the only real viable option

Sypher · October 2016

Implement #1 and then give magicka DK's major evasion on their cinder storm.

/done

sirston · October 2016

let heavy armor be buff it does what its suppose to do I hated when light armor was a major meta and was better in every aspect of is brother heavy.

heres a old fourms post from my day's when light armor dk's with bats could wipe 30 men groups..
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/122856/are-7-slot-light-armor-tank-still-valid-and-is-that-staying-that-way

Xinthisis · October 2016

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

6 second shuffle would be useless..

The first idea is the only real viable option

Yeah I just put it there because it was an idea mentioned to me.

Van_0S · October 2016

I agree with no.3.
Reduce shuffle duration by 6 sec, like for immovable and harness Magicka.
Also, it returns stamina by X value for each attack it dodges.

PainfulFAFA · October 2016

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

6 second shuffle would be useless..

The first idea is the only real viable option

6 sec cd BUT a big cost reduction and a buff to % dodge chance?

Soulac · October 2016

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

6 second shuffle would be useless..

The first idea is the only real viable option

6 sec cd BUT a big cost reduction and a buff to % dodge chance?

Hell no.
It already feels like a 40% dodge chance.

Orchish · October 2016

Agree with number 1. As a heavy user i should not be able to use evasion/shuffle. Heavy is fine being tanky, but combined with shuffle it takes the biscuit.

It's like back when we had every light armour guy using the heavy armour ability unstoppable. They nerfed the ability when all they had to do back then was implement your first suggestion.