Summoners Need Some Love

Khaos_Bane · September 2016

Memnock wrote: »

In my oppinion , the pet tree is the reason the sorc class is so limited in option compared to others. The pets don't really work in this game since they are toggles that you must put on both bars ( 3rd if you use overload ) and on top of that , without a dedicated action bar that gives you full control over your pet's actions , they are just dumb NPCs that hinder your combat more than help.

I mean , come on , i have never seen a sorc going into high end content with a pet build. Its outperformed by anything else.

To be honest , the best solution would be to have pets removed and that tree redesigned into something else , my suggestion is to make it an ICE oriented tree , since this elemental aspect is not really represented properly in the game compared to fire and lightning.

The ICE oriented tree should be on an ICE oriented skill line for the destruction staff. Have a skill line for each element of the destruction staff. This needs to be done.

Pallio · September 2016

A morph to consume the pet, add %crit/mag/SD etc. If it was better than Mage Light, problem solved. Pets are cool until you hit end game then useless.

dodgehopper_ESO · September 2016

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Memnock wrote: »

In my oppinion , the pet tree is the reason the sorc class is so limited in option compared to others. The pets don't really work in this game since they are toggles that you must put on both bars ( 3rd if you use overload ) and on top of that , without a dedicated action bar that gives you full control over your pet's actions , they are just dumb NPCs that hinder your combat more than help.

I mean , come on , i have never seen a sorc going into high end content with a pet build. Its outperformed by anything else.

To be honest , the best solution would be to have pets removed and that tree redesigned into something else , my suggestion is to make it an ICE oriented tree , since this elemental aspect is not really represented properly in the game compared to fire and lightning.

The ICE oriented tree should be on an ICE oriented skill line for the destruction staff. Have a skill line for each element of the destruction staff. This needs to be done.

I'm still hopeful they can come up with a Cryomancer type of a class, or perhaps something involving nature that would be inclusive of such skills.

Khaos_Bane · September 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Memnock wrote: »

In my oppinion , the pet tree is the reason the sorc class is so limited in option compared to others. The pets don't really work in this game since they are toggles that you must put on both bars ( 3rd if you use overload ) and on top of that , without a dedicated action bar that gives you full control over your pet's actions , they are just dumb NPCs that hinder your combat more than help.

I mean , come on , i have never seen a sorc going into high end content with a pet build. Its outperformed by anything else.

To be honest , the best solution would be to have pets removed and that tree redesigned into something else , my suggestion is to make it an ICE oriented tree , since this elemental aspect is not really represented properly in the game compared to fire and lightning.

The ICE oriented tree should be on an ICE oriented skill line for the destruction staff. Have a skill line for each element of the destruction staff. This needs to be done.

I'm still hopeful they can come up with a Cryomancer type of a class, or perhaps something involving nature that would be inclusive of such skills.

I would rather have them in staff skill line abilities so we have more fun options of mixing up skills for all classes.

FrostFallFox · September 2016

If only the pet toggles worked like magelight, and had all the negative things taken out (like dying, running off, taking aggro). Then the Twilight Matriarch could be similar to flames of oblivion and do the damage passively and heal when you activate it!

It would be beautiful

Khaos_Bane · September 2016

FrostFallFox wrote: »

If only the pet toggles worked like magelight, and had all the negative things taken out (like dying, running off, taking aggro). Then the Twilight Matriarch could be similar to flames of oblivion and do the damage passively and heal when you activate it!

It would be beautiful

Exactly. This is how it should be.

Gothren · September 2016

always amazes me the greed of others who want to get rid of skills that they do not like because you are too lazy to figure out how a summoner is supposed to play. getting rid of toggles would make pets overpowered due to chain combinations you can do with summoning skills. you are so focused on damage dealing that you do not see the other benefits of using a pet build.

Mayrael · September 2016

Gothren wrote: »

always amazes me the greed of others who want to get rid of skills that they do not like because you are too lazy to figure out how a summoner is supposed to play. getting rid of toggles would make pets overpowered due to chain combinations you can do with summoning skills. you are so focused on damage dealing that you do not see the other benefits of using a pet build.

Trust me I love pets, and yes in PvE i can find usage for them but other setups are much better... And PvP... After two weeks spent on trying to make them viable it was total mistake.

Gothren · September 2016

Mayrael wrote: »

Gothren wrote: »

always amazes me the greed of others who want to get rid of skills that they do not like because you are too lazy to figure out how a summoner is supposed to play. getting rid of toggles would make pets overpowered due to chain combinations you can do with summoning skills. you are so focused on damage dealing that you do not see the other benefits of using a pet build.

Trust me I love pets, and yes in PvE i can find usage for them but other setups are much better... And PvP... After two weeks spent on trying to make them viable it was total mistake.

i dont see how you have trouble with them in pvp. with a max magicka build you can have good offense and great defense. its not uncommon to have 50k magicka or more. 15k hardened ward 10k harness magicka. the main bar is mostly the same with most summoner: crystal frag, daedric prey, force pulse, twilight matriarch, and volatile familar. using the familiar and daedric prey provides you with the burst damage as you are using force pulse and crystal frags. couple that combination meteor and you can time your damage for good burst damage. the only thing you need to do is get in a habit of reapplying your shields. use immovable magicka detect or crit pots so you can constantly keep up pressure.

Apherius · September 2016

i Will test a PVE pet build . i create this , now i have to loot my Necrpotence , calcul are very positif , now if the Flying pet doesn't dead in raid with a lot of aoe , this would be a very good setup , have to test .

subtlezeroub17_ESO · September 2016

-Atronachs should have been based on staff type and not just a storm atronach.

-Should be able to summon a daedroth or spider daedra depending on morph

-Twilight Matriarch and Clannfear should be one spell depending on morph

-Scamps should be linked to a random chance summon passive.

-Summons need to be tougher and hardier

NaysaSimone · September 2016

ParaNostram wrote: »

@Memnock - pets aren't that difficult to control really. Just hold down the pet action and hit block for them to go passive, attack for them to attack the target you're aiming at.

This is actually really handy to know! My biggest annoyance with pets is while I'm chasing down an EP/AD.... my pet is chasing down a freaking fly that caught its attention

dodgehopper_ESO · September 2016

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Memnock wrote: »

In my oppinion , the pet tree is the reason the sorc class is so limited in option compared to others. The pets don't really work in this game since they are toggles that you must put on both bars ( 3rd if you use overload ) and on top of that , without a dedicated action bar that gives you full control over your pet's actions , they are just dumb NPCs that hinder your combat more than help.

I mean , come on , i have never seen a sorc going into high end content with a pet build. Its outperformed by anything else.

To be honest , the best solution would be to have pets removed and that tree redesigned into something else , my suggestion is to make it an ICE oriented tree , since this elemental aspect is not really represented properly in the game compared to fire and lightning.

The ICE oriented tree should be on an ICE oriented skill line for the destruction staff. Have a skill line for each element of the destruction staff. This needs to be done.

I'm still hopeful they can come up with a Cryomancer type of a class, or perhaps something involving nature that would be inclusive of such skills.

I would rather have them in staff skill line abilities so we have more fun options of mixing up skills for all classes.

I would rather spellcrafting, so that some skills can be weapon based, and some can be separate... for creativity reasons.

SirMewser · September 2016

Here is a comment from someone who has actually plays The Elder Scrolls franchise and would like summoning to remain.

The Sorcerer pets do need a buff, I don't expect them to be damage heavy, just more utility to counter their idiotic AI with passive effects/abilities and a conditional reaction to being damage. As for the passives, they should also be reevaluated.

Realistically the game is easy as it is, there is no fun nor player skill in pushing a button and watching a flashy animation one shot kill anything, and if they do find that fun, I feel awful sorry for those people.

The only thing majority of the people playing like is speed and flashy colors, they are easy to manipulate as they clearly seem shortsighted by saying that summoning should be scrapped.

There are two problems with removing summons in place of ice magic...
http://www.i-am-bored.com/2016/09/do-not-push-the-red-button.html

Warden is coming back (has a frost line).
Warden is coming back (has a pet line).

So there you have it, ZoS wants to add more pets, changes to the current ones can be expected, Alcast has said this many times. So wait.

Rex-Umbra · September 2016

I play my sorc with pets it's a bit gimped hoping Necro and Trinimac sets help me with 1T.

tinythinker · September 2016

Summoner Love...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY5IgZ2wC9c

But yeah, I put some ideas on the ESO Reddit this summer about pets. The issue for design is probably making sure a summoner isn't too powerful or and that the controls aren't too complex. So pets end up being frustrating for many players. In other games where you can have a dozen or two slots pets/pet control seem to be better. I like the simplified ESO bar but it adds to summoner woes.

Kelces · September 2016

It's ironic to see people claiming, the sorcerer isn't supposed to have any summoning tree included. Some even claim, bolt escape and that ability's morphs is "class defining".

Everyone, who played the previous games probably remembers, that only two of the classes we had there, are also in ESO:
Nightblade and Sorcerer

Here is the definition of the sorcerer according to Morrowind and Oblivion for example.

Would it really be conducive, to ignore all the historical background of this class and completely remove conjuration, just because it doesn't turn out the way some expect it to be?

I would rather see some slight improvement to this tree, as others already mentioned. Anything else would hardly make sense and that's probably an understatement considering what is to come, chronologically speaking. Think about it...

jircris11 · September 2016

Memnock wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Conjuration has always been my favorite school in previous Elder Scrolls games. I don't want it removed like you two are calling for just because it doesn't perform well presently.

@Memnock - pets aren't that difficult to control really. Just hold down the pet action and hit block for them to go passive, attack for them to attack the target you're aiming at. Also, rumor has it ZOS is saving frost for the redesigned Warden class down the road.

I mean, come on, Necromancy isn't in the game and isn't coming anytime soon, don't remove my Daedric summoning too!

Compared to other games with pet classes , the pet control here is super limited , can't control the battle field as i was able to do with my warlock in WOW , or AION , where the pets are an integral part of the class's combat style.

Also , i think i was not clear enough on the removal of the pets thing , but i think that they should be removed from the sorc tree and moved into their own general tree that everyone has access to , this way everyone who wants to has access to them ,but a class is not burdened with a tree that has skills that occupy unnecessary slots and are kind of a novelty thing only used for very specific stuff and once you hit end game in either pvp or pve , you kind of feel like you are at a disadvantage if you use them.

Someone in another thread suggested moving the pets along with their passives into the soul magic tree , that way , all 4 classes can use them and the sorc has its own stuff that can be used, since they are the only class that don't have a spamable skill , maybe a pet can be replaced with one and some other kind of utility thing for the other pet.

gw2, necro summons have the MOST limted controls i have seen. i cant stop them from chasing any red name within the radius.

Gothren · September 2016

would be really nice and useful for the storm atronach to be able to move. i mean come on... he has 2 legs after all.

ParaNostram · September 2016

SirMewser wrote: »

Here is a comment from someone who has actually plays The Elder Scrolls franchise and would like summoning to remain.

The Sorcerer pets do need a buff, I don't expect them to be damage heavy, just more utility to counter their idiotic AI with passive effects/abilities and a conditional reaction to being damage. As for the passives, they should also be reevaluated.

Realistically the game is easy as it is, there is no fun nor player skill in pushing a button and watching a flashy animation one shot kill anything, and if they do find that fun, I feel awful sorry for those people.

The only thing majority of the people playing like is speed and flashy colors, they are easy to manipulate as they clearly seem shortsighted by saying that summoning should be scrapped.

There are two problems with removing summons in place of ice magic...
http://www.i-am-bored.com/2016/09/do-not-push-the-red-button.html
Warden is coming back (has a frost line).

Warden is coming back (has a pet line).

So there you have it, ZoS wants to add more pets, changes to the current ones can be expected, Alcast has said this many times. So wait.

Your tone is implying that the rest of us don't "actually play the Elder Scrolls franchise". I've played summoners and necromancers since Morrowind's launch and have gone back to play Daggerfall and Arena.

AnviOfVai · September 2016

The summoners skill line should not be removed! It just needs to be improved. Ha that rhymed. There are builds out there for PVPers to use on their pets just find the one that suits you. Yes its not the best PVP skill to use, but if you use it correctly it can be one of the most fun *not the most powerful* skill lines in the game. I always have both my pets out, and using storm Arch ultimate and then suddenly your monster helm activates as well, you have the other pvpers running around frantically trying to get away from you as there are 4 pets after them hahaha

The pets could do with being on one bar so not to use up my other attacks. On this build I only have two attacks wall lightning and dadric curse. Bolt lightning is my way of getting away and stunning players so my pets can have ago at them. They also could do with being TOLD what to do, control over them would be better too, sometimes i look around and think oioi my pet is active but he not here... where is it?! I would love to be able to click on the twilight/clanfear in the skills section and have:

Auto Attack (attacks anyone they want)
Attack (Stops auto attack and attacks the player you are hitting)
Call Back
Dismiss
Stop Attacking

(there would need to be a quick access bar for you to be able to select easily and quickly what you want to do)

They could also deal with more health, to constantly have to keep healing them uses so much magika its draining.

Blobsky · September 2016

Personally I absolutely love the pet builds available in game... but it is a very niche playstyle that is not easy to catch on to... this was first ever day on a per sorc relying mostly on the burst from the scamp curse ulti and frag

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4BwQmzU2LU