The Removal of Bind on Equip from an Endgame Perspective

Carbonised · September 2016

Destruent wrote: »

It's a game, you should be able to only do what you like...

"It's a game, so please have material nodes spawn AP as well, I shouldn't be forced to get AP from pvp since I don't like pvp'ing"

"It's a game, so please have Dro-m'Athra motif and celestial motif drop from solo content. I don't like trials and I shouldn't be forced to do trials to get motifs"

"It's a game, so remove BoP from IC sets and Orsinium sets. I don't like doing IC dungeons and Wrothgar dailies, so don't force me to do it if I don't want to"

"It's a game, so remove BoP from Maelstrom weapons and Master weapons. I shouldn't have to do DSA and MA if I don't like it"

"It's a game, so have all content in the game drop all rewards. I should be forced to solo/pvp/pve/trial if I don't want to, but I still want access to everything while doing 2 % of the content"

etc etc etc

Anyway, I believe I made my point clear in the first post in this thread, the aggression and somewhat immature reponses that followed from you three so-called 'hardcore top trial raiders' was a little funny, but this is quickly spiralling towards the inconstructive, so I'm out. Enjoy your raiding.

hedna123b14_ESO · September 2016

Carbonised wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Again let me repeat myself, I'm not a bigger fan og BoP than you are, I don't like it either, but don't make trial people appear as beggars who can barely make ends meet, because that's really a l2p issue aka. learn to prioritize.

You can not come in here and tell people what to do, or how to spend their time. I do not tell PvPers to go and do undaunted pledges for their helms, neither does the game force them to anymore, their are other ways for them to do it.
So tell me, why should I have to stop doing what I like so I can buy my potions as another way of not having to farm.

Don't come in here and tell people to prioritize, who are you?

Uhm, as long as there is freedom of speech, I believe I can come in here and say pretty much what I want.

Sure, you're free to do whatever the heck you want to mate, live in vet trials if that's what you want, but no, I don't think you should get more rewards out of that than what you already get. That's a consequence of the choice you make - deal with it.

What we get now is plenty of reward for our efforts...what we will get with this new DLC is unacceptable. Also you absolutely have the freedom.of speech to say anything you want anywhere. But just as a Joe the Plumber who has a high school diploma is not capable of understanding intricacies of what it is like to be a CEO like Steve Jobs, you have zero qualifications for making judgements or statement about content you do not take a part of.

silvereyes · September 2016

Carbonised wrote: »

You want to do only trials and get rich from that, selling your 500k rings and jewels to fools like me. I disagree with that, that's all.

Personally, I'd prefer to have 200-500k gold jewels available from trials runners, in the specific set I want, than to have to wait months for a single gold jewel from the PvP vendor.

Many on here have explicitly stated that their net income from trials at present, even with these rare expensive drops, is at best slightly positive or negative. The costs of running trials over and over can be very high.

But even if that weren't the case ... what is wrong with people who repeatedly complete the hardest content in the game being rewarded for it? By contrast, farming mats and fishing are super profitable, with zero skill required.

The only explanation I can think of is envy / jealousy. Why do you want to bring others down? It's not like these are even players that would use gold for a competitive advantage in PvP. They already have access to some of the best non-PvP-specific sets in the game, gold won't buy PvP-specific sets, and they rarely PvP anyways, if at all.

hedna123b14_ESO · September 2016

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Meh, too much complaining for my tastes.

In truth, potions aren't a necessity for trials if all you care about is loot, which is probably a healthy majority of players. You can clear trials just as well without them. Now, if you're going for LB placing than use pots by all means but know that LB slot is going to come at a hefty bill attached for all those pots.

As for repairs, the amount of gold it takes to repair gear on a good trial run is 10k at best, which is very easy to make that I can't really understand the hate on this. You probably waste much more on vMA runs and you don't make ANY money on doing that but you don't complain on the repair bill on that, so how is this really any different?

You can still make money selling trial motifs so it's not like you don't have some form of income for your hard work. Seems like a lot of petty complaints IMO.

...everyone has been complaining about vMA costs. As far as what you need for trials, you don't even NEED to run purple.or gold gear, you can complete trials in blue gear, but that doesn't mean that that's the way it should be done, because I can promise you that what will take a fully specced group 45 minutes will take a substandard group 2 hours. So by running good gear and good pots I'm making it much easier and enjoyable to play.

Carbonised · September 2016

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

What we get now is plenty of reward for our efforts...what we will get with this new DLC is unacceptable. Also you absolutely have the freedom.of speech to say anything you want anywhere. But just as a Joe the Plumber who has a high school diploma is not capable of understanding intricacies of what it is like to be a CEO like Steve Jobs, you have zero qualifications for making judgements or statement about content you do not take a part of.

I know I said last reply would be the last from me in this thread, but I just couldn't let this one go by.

Sure, I'm an ignorant derp who knows nothing about trials (I have done all trials, even some on vet mode, but for argument's sake anyway).

Well good thing I'm not a dev then, surely the guys who created this game know the "intricacies" about such a complicated and elaborate phenomenon as ESO raiding.

Oh wait, devs just turned all trial sets BoP this patch, didn't they

Qbiken · September 2016

I believe if more people like @Nifty2g who does a lot of veteran content like trials, promote that BoP isn´t a good thing, they might not change it. But the critisism needs to come out the right way (which means not as a rant) like in this thread. More of these threads pls.

DisgracefulMind · September 2016

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Meh, too much complaining for my tastes.

In truth, potions aren't a necessity for trials if all you care about is loot, which is probably a healthy majority of players. You can clear trials just as well without them. Now, if you're going for LB placing than use pots by all means but know that LB slot is going to come at a hefty bill attached for all those pots.

As for repairs, the amount of gold it takes to repair gear on a good trial run is 10k at best, which is very easy to make that I can't really understand the hate on this. You probably waste much more on vMA runs and you don't make ANY money on doing that but you don't complain on the repair bill on that, so how is this really any different?

You can still make money selling trial motifs so it's not like you don't have some form of income for your hard work. Seems like a lot of petty complaints IMO.

*sigh* Trial motifs that can be obtained by farming a trial set to normal at level 10, thus driving the prices of those motifs to near nothing, and they drop once a week per character. This, in my opinion, invalidates this point entirely.

People complain about vMA too. A lot of vMA score leaders also raid. They depend on raiding for their income to do their content. This goes deeper than just trials. It's all endgame PvE.

And the OP specifically asked for HARDMODES to drop items to sell. This gives incentive for players to do this content, and rewards players who can complete it. I really don't understand what the problem is to people with people getting rewarded for completing content /:

You work hard for high leaderboard placements in Cyrodiil and get gold + rewards. You're rewarded with things to sell or gain from in every piece of content....why can't trials be the same? What is wrong with having BoE gear in trials? We have all accepted that there's a price for wanting to push content and push leaderboards and such, but why should we have literally not one thing to sell anymore?

hedna123b14_ESO · September 2016

Carbonised wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

What we get now is plenty of reward for our efforts...what we will get with this new DLC is unacceptable. Also you absolutely have the freedom.of speech to say anything you want anywhere. But just as a Joe the Plumber who has a high school diploma is not capable of understanding intricacies of what it is like to be a CEO like Steve Jobs, you have zero qualifications for making judgements or statement about content you do not take a part of.

I know I said last reply would be the last from me in this thread, but I just couldn't let this one go by.

Sure, I'm an ignorant derp who knows nothing about trials (I have done all trials, even some on vet mode, but for argument's sake anyway).

Well good thing I'm not a dev then, surely the guys who created this game know the "intricacies" about such a complicated and elaborate phenomenon as ESO raiding.

Oh wait, devs just turned all trial sets BoP this patch, didn't they

Lol you've done all trials and even some vet modes? You do understand that the normal modes can be completed with 6 people or less? Non vet trials have the difficulty of 4 man content. Completing them does not at all make you qualified. As for the devs, that was a stupid argument to make, since if you take a look at the the state of the game there have been a plethora of decision making mistakes that were introduced that resulted in massive player losses from the game. Saying that they know what they are doing goes against the game's performance over the past few years.

Dubhliam · September 2016

Solution:

Make the Wise Mage, Quick Serpent and Immortal Warrior sets BoE.
Make motifs drop only from veteran mode trials.

GG, happy hunting.

DisgracefulMind · September 2016

Dubhliam wrote: »

Solution:
Make the Wise Mage, Quick Serpent and Immortal Warrior sets BoE.

Make motifs drop only from veteran mode trials.

GG, happy hunting.

Now this would be a really nice compromise imo. I like this a lot.

Darlon · September 2016

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Meh, too much complaining for my tastes.

In truth, potions aren't a necessity for trials if all you care about is loot, which is probably a healthy majority of players. You can clear trials just as well without them. Now, if you're going for LB placing than use pots by all means but know that LB slot is going to come at a hefty bill attached for all those pots.

As for repairs, the amount of gold it takes to repair gear on a good trial run is 10k at best, which is very easy to make that I can't really understand the hate on this. You probably waste much more on vMA runs and you don't make ANY money on doing that but you don't complain on the repair bill on that, so how is this really any different?

You can still make money selling trial motifs so it's not like you don't have some form of income for your hard work. Seems like a lot of petty complaints IMO.

*sigh* Trial motifs that can be obtained by farming a trial set to normal at level 10, thus driving the prices of those motifs to near nothing, and they drop once a week per character. This, in my opinion, invalidates this point entirely.

This won't be happening anymore after update 12, since trial scaling is no longer working.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · September 2016

Carbonised wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

What we get now is plenty of reward for our efforts...what we will get with this new DLC is unacceptable. Also you absolutely have the freedom.of speech to say anything you want anywhere. But just as a Joe the Plumber who has a high school diploma is not capable of understanding intricacies of what it is like to be a CEO like Steve Jobs, you have zero qualifications for making judgements or statement about content you do not take a part of.

I know I said last reply would be the last from me in this thread, but I just couldn't let this one go by.

Sure, I'm an ignorant derp who knows nothing about trials (I have done all trials, even some on vet mode, but for argument's sake anyway).

Well good thing I'm not a dev then, surely the guys who created this game know the "intricacies" about such a complicated and elaborate phenomenon as ESO raiding.

Oh wait, devs just turned all trial sets BoP this patch, didn't they

I cant help but laugh. Yes the people who created the game know so much. And never make mistakes. How many of them are still here? How many systems have been changed since launch? Really go troll somewhere else.

Destruent · September 2016

Carbonised wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

It's a game, you should be able to only do what you like...

"It's a game, so please have material nodes spawn AP as well, I shouldn't be forced to get AP from pvp since I don't like pvp'ing"

"It's a game, so please have Dro-m'Athra motif and celestial motif drop from solo content. I don't like trials and I shouldn't be forced to do trials to get motifs"

"It's a game, so remove BoP from IC sets and Orsinium sets. I don't like doing IC dungeons and Wrothgar dailies, so don't force me to do it if I don't want to"

"It's a game, so remove BoP from Maelstrom weapons and Master weapons. I shouldn't have to do DSA and MA if I don't like it"

"It's a game, so have all content in the game drop all rewards. I should be forced to solo/pvp/pve/trial if I don't want to, but I still want access to everything while doing 2 % of the content"

etc etc etc

Anyway, I believe I made my point clear in the first post in this thread, the aggression and somewhat immature reponses that followed from you three so-called 'hardcore top trial raiders' was a little funny, but this is quickly spiralling towards the inconstructive, so I'm out. Enjoy your raiding.

1. you only need AP to buy siege-weapons and akaviri-motif and to get the sets from rewards of the worthy. You can sell your materials and then buy all of this. --> no problem
2. You can do solo-content, sell the stuff from solo-content and buy the motifs --> no problem
3. you can buy the triphies and open all the vaults in the nex patch to get those sets --> won't be a problem
4. people are constantly asking for a better system especially regarding those maelstromeweapons (token system, master weapons through pvp-rewards...) --> needs to be solved
5. as long as you get something in this 2% which can be exchanged for other things that sounds great isn't it?

the game isn't perfect in it's current state, but it's ok (or even great) for endgame-raiding atm. Why do they change something which is good? People get sets from trials without doing them and raider can get some money to buy potions. Those who sell potions get money from the raiders and can (if they need) buy equipment from raiders. What's the problem with this?

DisgracefulMind · September 2016

Darlon wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Meh, too much complaining for my tastes.

In truth, potions aren't a necessity for trials if all you care about is loot, which is probably a healthy majority of players. You can clear trials just as well without them. Now, if you're going for LB placing than use pots by all means but know that LB slot is going to come at a hefty bill attached for all those pots.

As for repairs, the amount of gold it takes to repair gear on a good trial run is 10k at best, which is very easy to make that I can't really understand the hate on this. You probably waste much more on vMA runs and you don't make ANY money on doing that but you don't complain on the repair bill on that, so how is this really any different?

You can still make money selling trial motifs so it's not like you don't have some form of income for your hard work. Seems like a lot of petty complaints IMO.

*sigh* Trial motifs that can be obtained by farming a trial set to normal at level 10, thus driving the prices of those motifs to near nothing, and they drop once a week per character. This, in my opinion, invalidates this point entirely.

This won't be happening anymore after update 12, since trial scaling is no longer working.

Good that the scaling will be gone, but they still drop from normal modes, yes? We saw what normal modes ended up being (easily completed in 15-20 minutes by pug farm groups), so those prices will still drop I'd say, and won't be any sort of sustainable income (:

Hutch679 · September 2016

If we can't sell set gear, how much you think tempers are going to cost? The only thing we will be able to sell is materials. Getting for a price jack!

Darlon · September 2016

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Darlon wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Meh, too much complaining for my tastes.

In truth, potions aren't a necessity for trials if all you care about is loot, which is probably a healthy majority of players. You can clear trials just as well without them. Now, if you're going for LB placing than use pots by all means but know that LB slot is going to come at a hefty bill attached for all those pots.

As for repairs, the amount of gold it takes to repair gear on a good trial run is 10k at best, which is very easy to make that I can't really understand the hate on this. You probably waste much more on vMA runs and you don't make ANY money on doing that but you don't complain on the repair bill on that, so how is this really any different?

You can still make money selling trial motifs so it's not like you don't have some form of income for your hard work. Seems like a lot of petty complaints IMO.

*sigh* Trial motifs that can be obtained by farming a trial set to normal at level 10, thus driving the prices of those motifs to near nothing, and they drop once a week per character. This, in my opinion, invalidates this point entirely.

This won't be happening anymore after update 12, since trial scaling is no longer working.

Good that the scaling will be gone, but they still drop from normal modes, yes? We saw what normal modes ended up being (easily completed in 15-20 minutes by pug farm groups), so those prices will still drop I'd say, and won't be any sort of sustainable income (:

True, and to be honest, not sure how it is going to turn out, but I think the total ease of farming them like it is now will probably be gone..

And I have my doubts they will ever make the typical trial gear sets BoE (like vicious ophidean etc, they are BoP now already). And I am not sure if the other sets like silk of the sun will still be dropping in trials. If they still drop, then I firmly believe they shouldn't mess with them and leave those BoE, there's nothing wrong with that.

DisgracefulMind · September 2016

Darlon wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Darlon wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Meh, too much complaining for my tastes.

In truth, potions aren't a necessity for trials if all you care about is loot, which is probably a healthy majority of players. You can clear trials just as well without them. Now, if you're going for LB placing than use pots by all means but know that LB slot is going to come at a hefty bill attached for all those pots.

As for repairs, the amount of gold it takes to repair gear on a good trial run is 10k at best, which is very easy to make that I can't really understand the hate on this. You probably waste much more on vMA runs and you don't make ANY money on doing that but you don't complain on the repair bill on that, so how is this really any different?

You can still make money selling trial motifs so it's not like you don't have some form of income for your hard work. Seems like a lot of petty complaints IMO.

*sigh* Trial motifs that can be obtained by farming a trial set to normal at level 10, thus driving the prices of those motifs to near nothing, and they drop once a week per character. This, in my opinion, invalidates this point entirely.

This won't be happening anymore after update 12, since trial scaling is no longer working.

Good that the scaling will be gone, but they still drop from normal modes, yes? We saw what normal modes ended up being (easily completed in 15-20 minutes by pug farm groups), so those prices will still drop I'd say, and won't be any sort of sustainable income (:

True, and to be honest, not sure how it is going to turn out, but I think the total ease of farming them like it is now will probably be gone..

That will be nice that they will have some sort of worth for awhile, but I doubt it will last. Hopefully it will provide some sort of comfort level for a bit until we can figure out what to do about funding raids for our groups, but as it stands, it's looking like some serious ESO depression for endgame raiders for awhile /:

Those sets are the ones I think everyone can agree we'd like to keep in trials, at least the gold jewelry chances. The current system has been really wonderful to the health of endgame raiding. People have gotten seriously interested in raiding and running content because the system is rewarding, but if that's taken away then the interest is gone, and once more the dedicated endgame raiding guilds will be the only ones running, and we still won't be able to sustain off of it.

Silver_Strider · September 2016

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Meh, too much complaining for my tastes.

In truth, potions aren't a necessity for trials if all you care about is loot, which is probably a healthy majority of players. You can clear trials just as well without them. Now, if you're going for LB placing than use pots by all means but know that LB slot is going to come at a hefty bill attached for all those pots.

As for repairs, the amount of gold it takes to repair gear on a good trial run is 10k at best, which is very easy to make that I can't really understand the hate on this. You probably waste much more on vMA runs and you don't make ANY money on doing that but you don't complain on the repair bill on that, so how is this really any different?

You can still make money selling trial motifs so it's not like you don't have some form of income for your hard work. Seems like a lot of petty complaints IMO.

...everyone has been complaining about vMA costs. As far as what you need for trials, you don't even NEED to run purple.or gold gear, you can complete trials in blue gear, but that doesn't mean that that's the way it should be done, because I can promise you that what will take a fully specced group 45 minutes will take a substandard group 2 hours. So by running good gear and good pots I'm making it much easier and enjoyable to play.

I only ever hear about people with 500+ runs and never getting their sharpened inferno staff or whatnot, never really about the cost of doing it. Still , good runs shouldn't be costing anywhere near enough that an hour or 2 of farming can't make up.

Easier sure but enjoyable is subjective. I find trials to be a grind and find little to no enjoyment in running them. I run them purely to help guildies out, nothing more as I have everything I could want from them already. I just give my guildies whatever loot they need for XYZ reason and whatever I get that people don't want, I put in the guild bank for someone to get eventually.

I do want to add that people put too much emphasis on how this will ruin the economy of ESO but I feel guid traders themselves ruined the economy by putting some arbitrary limit on who can sell things efficiently. You can spam "WTS Gold Silk of the Sun ring" all you want in chat, but since people got stuff to do you can't stay there doing it 24/7.

timidobserver · September 2016

Silver_Strider wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Meh, too much complaining for my tastes.

In truth, potions aren't a necessity for trials if all you care about is loot, which is probably a healthy majority of players. You can clear trials just as well without them. Now, if you're going for LB placing than use pots by all means but know that LB slot is going to come at a hefty bill attached for all those pots.

As for repairs, the amount of gold it takes to repair gear on a good trial run is 10k at best, which is very easy to make that I can't really understand the hate on this. You probably waste much more on vMA runs and you don't make ANY money on doing that but you don't complain on the repair bill on that, so how is this really any different?

You can still make money selling trial motifs so it's not like you don't have some form of income for your hard work. Seems like a lot of petty complaints IMO.

...everyone has been complaining about vMA costs. As far as what you need for trials, you don't even NEED to run purple.or gold gear, you can complete trials in blue gear, but that doesn't mean that that's the way it should be done, because I can promise you that what will take a fully specced group 45 minutes will take a substandard group 2 hours. So by running good gear and good pots I'm making it much easier and enjoyable to play.

I only ever hear about people with 500+ runs and never getting their sharpened inferno staff or whatnot, never really about the cost of doing it. Still , good runs shouldn't be costing anywhere near enough that an hour or 2 of farming can't make up.

Easier sure but enjoyable is subjective. I find trials to be a grind and find little to no enjoyment in running them. I run them purely to help guildies out, nothing more as I have everything I could want from them already. I just give my guildies whatever loot they need for XYZ reason and whatever I get that people don't want, I put in the guild bank for someone to get eventually.

I do want to add that people put too much emphasis on how this will ruin the economy of ESO but I feel guid traders themselves ruined the economy by putting some arbitrary limit on who can sell things efficiently. You can spam "WTS Gold Silk of the Sun ring" all you want in chat, but since people got stuff to do you can't stay there doing it 24/7.

I personally stopped doing vMSA at all after I got every weapon in good traits. If there were incentive to pay for the cost of doing it I might go back in.

potirondb16_ESO · September 2016

Carbonised wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Again let me repeat myself, I'm not a bigger fan og BoP than you are, I don't like it either, but don't make trial people appear as beggars who can barely make ends meet, because that's really a l2p issue aka. learn to prioritize.

You can not come in here and tell people what to do, or how to spend their time. I do not tell PvPers to go and do undaunted pledges for their helms, neither does the game force them to anymore, their are other ways for them to do it.
So tell me, why should I have to stop doing what I like so I can buy my potions as another way of not having to farm.

Don't come in here and tell people to prioritize, who are you?

Uhm, as long as there is freedom of speech, I believe I can come in here and say pretty much what I want.

Sure, you're free to do whatever the heck you want to mate, live in vet trials if that's what you want, but no, I don't think you should get more rewards out of that than what you already get. That's a consequence of the choice you make - deal with it.

We don't want to get more, we just don't want to get less than now. Is it that hard to understand?

Nope, I understand you pretty well. And I don't agree with you, and I have made it clear why I don't agree, is that hard to understand?

Also, going back a page or two in this thread, and others have made the exact same arguements like I have so it's not like I'm the only one.

Sure, I get it, you want to do only trials and get rich from that, selling your 500k rings and jewels to fools like me. I disagree with that, that's all. Can we disagree on something without feeling the need to throw a hissyfit about it?

Actually that's a pretty statement that we can make about just everything, you guys are farming world boss for motif, they should be BoP so that you cannot sell them to fool like me. Or you guys are farming mats and Temper ! They should be too !

The reality of all that is that there ain't a logic call for any of that. You are mats farming during an hour you and doing your dailies during an other and you get 100-200k a week from this... I shouldn't be undermining your work. You run during 3 hour a night, 4 time a week and you sell for 500k a week... why not ?

I mean that's how it works, if people sell item to fool like you it means you benefit from it. So why not start with that.

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Meh, too much complaining for my tastes.

In truth, potions aren't a necessity for trials if all you care about is loot, which is probably a healthy majority of players. You can clear trials just as well without them. Now, if you're going for LB placing than use pots by all means but know that LB slot is going to come at a hefty bill attached for all those pots.

As for repairs, the amount of gold it takes to repair gear on a good trial run is 10k at best, which is very easy to make that I can't really understand the hate on this. You probably waste much more on vMA runs and you don't make ANY money on doing that but you don't complain on the repair bill on that, so how is this really any different?

You can still make money selling trial motifs so it's not like you don't have some form of income for your hard work. Seems like a lot of petty complaints IMO.

That's also not working, I personnally complete vMA without using pots (535k lead) and I can't raid without them even on good sustain build. The reality is that normal trial are 100% achievable without potion even if it means taking more time to clear stuff. But veteran one... it's a cheap call to say so.

DocFrost72 · September 2016

Destruent wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

It's a game, you should be able to only do what you like...

"It's a game, so please have material nodes spawn AP as well, I shouldn't be forced to get AP from pvp since I don't like pvp'ing"

"It's a game, so please have Dro-m'Athra motif and celestial motif drop from solo content. I don't like trials and I shouldn't be forced to do trials to get motifs"

"It's a game, so remove BoP from IC sets and Orsinium sets. I don't like doing IC dungeons and Wrothgar dailies, so don't force me to do it if I don't want to"

"It's a game, so remove BoP from Maelstrom weapons and Master weapons. I shouldn't have to do DSA and MA if I don't like it"

"It's a game, so have all content in the game drop all rewards. I should be forced to solo/pvp/pve/trial if I don't want to, but I still want access to everything while doing 2 % of the content"

etc etc etc

Anyway, I believe I made my point clear in the first post in this thread, the aggression and somewhat immature reponses that followed from you three so-called 'hardcore top trial raiders' was a little funny, but this is quickly spiralling towards the inconstructive, so I'm out. Enjoy your raiding.

1. you only need AP to buy siege-weapons and akaviri-motif and to get the sets from rewards of the worthy. You can sell your materials and then buy all of this. --> no problem
2. You can do solo-content, sell the stuff from solo-content and buy the motifs --> no problem
3. you can buy the triphies and open all the vaults in the nex patch to get those sets --> won't be a problem
4. people are constantly asking for a better system especially regarding those maelstromeweapons (token system, master weapons through pvp-rewards...) --> needs to be solved
5. as long as you get something in this 2% which can be exchanged for other things that sounds great isn't it?

the game isn't perfect in it's current state, but it's ok (or even great) for endgame-raiding atm. Why do they change something which is good? People get sets from trials without doing them and raider can get some money to buy potions. Those who sell potions get money from the raiders and can (if they need) buy equipment from raiders. What's the problem with this?

For me, the issue lies in the "need" for potions. Again, sympathetic and you guys should all be able to raid to your heart's content, but I don't see why content that requires you to chug expensive pots is a good idea.

Change alchemy, change the need for pots, but ZoS typically doesn't go back on things. It may help to come.up with alternatives for a world.with BoP. Is BoP a good idea? No, not at all, but I'm not sure any number of player requests will change the course we're on.

hedna123b14_ESO · September 2016

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

It's a game, you should be able to only do what you like...

"It's a game, so please have material nodes spawn AP as well, I shouldn't be forced to get AP from pvp since I don't like pvp'ing"

"It's a game, so please have Dro-m'Athra motif and celestial motif drop from solo content. I don't like trials and I shouldn't be forced to do trials to get motifs"

"It's a game, so remove BoP from IC sets and Orsinium sets. I don't like doing IC dungeons and Wrothgar dailies, so don't force me to do it if I don't want to"

"It's a game, so remove BoP from Maelstrom weapons and Master weapons. I shouldn't have to do DSA and MA if I don't like it"

"It's a game, so have all content in the game drop all rewards. I should be forced to solo/pvp/pve/trial if I don't want to, but I still want access to everything while doing 2 % of the content"

etc etc etc

Anyway, I believe I made my point clear in the first post in this thread, the aggression and somewhat immature reponses that followed from you three so-called 'hardcore top trial raiders' was a little funny, but this is quickly spiralling towards the inconstructive, so I'm out. Enjoy your raiding.

1. you only need AP to buy siege-weapons and akaviri-motif and to get the sets from rewards of the worthy. You can sell your materials and then buy all of this. --> no problem
2. You can do solo-content, sell the stuff from solo-content and buy the motifs --> no problem
3. you can buy the triphies and open all the vaults in the nex patch to get those sets --> won't be a problem
4. people are constantly asking for a better system especially regarding those maelstromeweapons (token system, master weapons through pvp-rewards...) --> needs to be solved
5. as long as you get something in this 2% which can be exchanged for other things that sounds great isn't it?

the game isn't perfect in it's current state, but it's ok (or even great) for endgame-raiding atm. Why do they change something which is good? People get sets from trials without doing them and raider can get some money to buy potions. Those who sell potions get money from the raiders and can (if they need) buy equipment from raiders. What's the problem with this?

For me, the issue lies in the "need" for potions. Again, sympathetic and you guys should all be able to raid to your heart's content, but I don't see why content that requires you to chug expensive pots is a good idea.

Change alchemy, change the need for pots, but ZoS typically doesn't go back on things. It may help to come.up with alternatives for a world.with BoP. Is BoP a good idea? No, not at all, but I'm not sure any number of player requests will change the course we're on.

...because it's Endgame

Mojmir · September 2016

Ask budweiser for an endorsement, lol

Silver_Strider · September 2016

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Meh, too much complaining for my tastes.

In truth, potions aren't a necessity for trials if all you care about is loot, which is probably a healthy majority of players. You can clear trials just as well without them. Now, if you're going for LB placing than use pots by all means but know that LB slot is going to come at a hefty bill attached for all those pots.

As for repairs, the amount of gold it takes to repair gear on a good trial run is 10k at best, which is very easy to make that I can't really understand the hate on this. You probably waste much more on vMA runs and you don't make ANY money on doing that but you don't complain on the repair bill on that, so how is this really any different?

You can still make money selling trial motifs so it's not like you don't have some form of income for your hard work. Seems like a lot of petty complaints IMO.

*sigh* Trial motifs that can be obtained by farming a trial set to normal at level 10, thus driving the prices of those motifs to near nothing, and they drop once a week per character. This, in my opinion, invalidates this point entirely.

People complain about vMA too. A lot of vMA score leaders also raid. They depend on raiding for their income to do their content. This goes deeper than just trials. It's all endgame PvE.

And the OP specifically asked for HARDMODES to drop items to sell. This gives incentive for players to do this content, and rewards players who can complete it. I really don't understand what the problem is to people with people getting rewarded for completing content /:

You work hard for high leaderboard placements in Cyrodiil and get gold + rewards. You're rewarded with things to sell or gain from in every piece of content....why can't trials be the same? What is wrong with having BoE gear in trials? We have all accepted that there's a price for wanting to push content and push leaderboards and such, but why should we have literally not one thing to sell anymore?

If a game needs to give you an incentive to run content, other than gear, then that game has failed at providing meaningful content. Honestly how I feel about that statement.

ESO has failed at providing this, so the players turned to another alternative in the form of playing ESO as an economic fueled MMO, where supply and demand is king. That supply, however, is now in danger of being cut off or distributed out in such a way that they'll be no more demand for it, leaving people without their happy alternative anymore. Is it sad? Sure because now there's virtually nothing to keep end game PvEers playing but it also isn't the end of the world either. People will find an alternative again and ESO will continue on in that direction

Autolycus · September 2016

Carbonised wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Again let me repeat myself, I'm not a bigger fan og BoP than you are, I don't like it either, but don't make trial people appear as beggars who can barely make ends meet, because that's really a l2p issue aka. learn to prioritize.

You can not come in here and tell people what to do, or how to spend their time. I do not tell PvPers to go and do undaunted pledges for their helms, neither does the game force them to anymore, their are other ways for them to do it.
So tell me, why should I have to stop doing what I like so I can buy my potions as another way of not having to farm.

Don't come in here and tell people to prioritize, who are you?

Uhm, as long as there is freedom of speech, I believe I can come in here and say pretty much what I want.

Sure, you're free to do whatever the heck you want to mate, live in vet trials if that's what you want, but no, I don't think you should get more rewards out of that than what you already get. That's a consequence of the choice you make - deal with it.

Sounds to me like you don't have much experience with the rewards themselves, mate. You're acting like the rewards for hardmode trials is incredibly lucrative, and we're all swimming in gold, wiping our asses with hours of your time. The removal of BoE gear from dungeons and trials is not a choice that any of us made - that's the point of the whole thread. The day that ZOS makes a change that forces you to spend hours of your valuable time each week doing content you don't want to do (like running around in circles picking flowers), you'll be here whining too.

I'm sure you'll be a little butthurt when some troll comes and tells you to get over it too. But the simple fact that you think the rewards for trials are good enough already is proof that you are ignorant to the subject itself. You have no credibility towards the topic, imho, since you are willing to spout impolite remarks to people over a concept with which you clearly lack understanding.

Sallington · September 2016

Carbonised wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Again let me repeat myself, I'm not a bigger fan og BoP than you are, I don't like it either, but don't make trial people appear as beggars who can barely make ends meet, because that's really a l2p issue aka. learn to prioritize.

You can not come in here and tell people what to do, or how to spend their time. I do not tell PvPers to go and do undaunted pledges for their helms, neither does the game force them to anymore, their are other ways for them to do it.
So tell me, why should I have to stop doing what I like so I can buy my potions as another way of not having to farm.

Don't come in here and tell people to prioritize, who are you?

Uhm, as long as there is freedom of speech, I believe I can come in here and say pretty much what I want.

Sure, you're free to do whatever the heck you want to mate, live in vet trials if that's what you want, but no, I don't think you should get more rewards out of that than what you already get. That's a consequence of the choice you make - deal with it.

We don't want to get more, we just don't want to get less than now. Is it that hard to understand?

Nope, I understand you pretty well. And I don't agree with you, and I have made it clear why I don't agree, is that hard to understand?

Also, going back a page or two in this thread, and others have made the exact same arguements like I have so it's not like I'm the only one.

Sure, I get it, you want to do only trials and get rich from that, selling your 500k rings and jewels to fools like me. I disagree with that, that's all. Can we disagree on something without feeling the need to throw a hissyfit about it?

What does ANYBODY gain from this change? It's just ZOS fixing what isn't broken.

So you don't want people running vet trials to make money? That's petty.

Nifty2g · September 2016

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

It's a game, you should be able to only do what you like...

"It's a game, so please have material nodes spawn AP as well, I shouldn't be forced to get AP from pvp since I don't like pvp'ing"

"It's a game, so please have Dro-m'Athra motif and celestial motif drop from solo content. I don't like trials and I shouldn't be forced to do trials to get motifs"

"It's a game, so remove BoP from IC sets and Orsinium sets. I don't like doing IC dungeons and Wrothgar dailies, so don't force me to do it if I don't want to"

"It's a game, so remove BoP from Maelstrom weapons and Master weapons. I shouldn't have to do DSA and MA if I don't like it"

"It's a game, so have all content in the game drop all rewards. I should be forced to solo/pvp/pve/trial if I don't want to, but I still want access to everything while doing 2 % of the content"

etc etc etc

Anyway, I believe I made my point clear in the first post in this thread, the aggression and somewhat immature reponses that followed from you three so-called 'hardcore top trial raiders' was a little funny, but this is quickly spiralling towards the inconstructive, so I'm out. Enjoy your raiding.

1. you only need AP to buy siege-weapons and akaviri-motif and to get the sets from rewards of the worthy. You can sell your materials and then buy all of this. --> no problem
2. You can do solo-content, sell the stuff from solo-content and buy the motifs --> no problem
3. you can buy the triphies and open all the vaults in the nex patch to get those sets --> won't be a problem
4. people are constantly asking for a better system especially regarding those maelstromeweapons (token system, master weapons through pvp-rewards...) --> needs to be solved
5. as long as you get something in this 2% which can be exchanged for other things that sounds great isn't it?

the game isn't perfect in it's current state, but it's ok (or even great) for endgame-raiding atm. Why do they change something which is good? People get sets from trials without doing them and raider can get some money to buy potions. Those who sell potions get money from the raiders and can (if they need) buy equipment from raiders. What's the problem with this?

For me, the issue lies in the "need" for potions. Again, sympathetic and you guys should all be able to raid to your heart's content, but I don't see why content that requires you to chug expensive pots is a good idea.

Change alchemy, change the need for pots, but ZoS typically doesn't go back on things. It may help to come.up with alternatives for a world.with BoP. Is BoP a good idea? No, not at all, but I'm not sure any number of player requests will change the course we're on.

The title states "from an end game perspective" I am obviously talking about the 1%, well the whole competitive end game, the progression crowed. This might not make a lot of sense to you, but believe me if you were involved you'd understand, which is why I am asking the community to be sympathetic. I know the developers lately have been very invovled with the endgame crowed, possibly seeking insight to what its like to raid in ESO, I'm unsure. But I know for a fact they are a lot more involved

silvereyes · September 2016

Silver_Strider wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

This gives incentive for players to do this content, and rewards players who can complete it.

If a game needs to give you an incentive to run content, other than gear, then that game has failed at providing meaningful content.

That makes no sense. The content is interesting in its own right the first few times, and gear is obviously an incentive. However, once you have all your desired gear, why would you keep playing the content if it is going to perpetually drain your gold?

Adding a consumable incentive like gold or BoE gear that can be sold adds to replay value, even after you have all your gear. This thread is specifically about end-game, which by definition, implies replayability. BoP gear drops don't provide that, but it hardly implies that the content isn't meaningful.

For 12 person Trials especially, participation is always going to be a challenge, just due to the logistics of organizing 12 people in a group. This BoP change will reduce replayability, reducing participation and making it even harder to find 11 others to group with. After finally revitalizing trials in SoH, this represents a step in the opposite direction. It's hardly surprising that people would object.

Mojomonkeyman · September 2016

As someone who only enjoys PvP I feel OP is talking about first world problems. A very rich man failing to realize that others have never been in the advantageous position he is/was in.

Everytime I step into a dungeon I feel the strong urge to shut down the PC and do something else, I really don`t enjoy group PvE. So I have to grind tv stones, flowers, whatever (translation: stuff I really hate to do) approx. 1-2 hours per day just to be able to finance supplements and gear upgrades for what I enjoy to do (PvP). This is reality since the game started.

To create such an uproar just because you will be put a similar position I am in, after 2,5 years of eso`s existence, while still keeping the advantage of being able to acquire sets I never get to see, is kinda stunning.

Nifty2g · September 2016

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

As someone who only enjoys PvP I feel OP is talking about first world problems. A very rich man failing to realize that others have never been in the advantageous position he is/was in.

Everytime I step into a dungeon I feel the strong urge to shut down the PC and do something else, I really don`t enjoy group PvE. So I have to grind tv stones, flowers, whatever (translation: stuff I really hate to do) approx. 1-2 hours per day just to be able to finance supplements and gear upgrades for what I enjoy to do (PvP). This is reality since the game started.

To create such an uproar just because you will be put a similar position I am in, after 2,5 years of eso`s existence, while still keeping the advantage of being able to acquire sets I never get to see, is kinda stunning.

If you look at my screenshot, it will show you how much gold I have, pretty impressive huh?