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• PC/Mac: No maintenance - July 8
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• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – July 10, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
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Update 43 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/662078/
ZOS you should do this experiment for one quarter - make all BOP and BOE fully tradable and sellable
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biovitalb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭People should play content and earn rewards! Why should some "players" who has lots of gold simply be able to get these items without even playing the content?
I completely disagree with you, sorry.
This makes no sense. Wouldn't they have to play the game to earn that gold to buy items? With that kinda of logic everything in the game should be BoP, ore, herbs, wood, tempers...everything. If you didn't play the farming game you didn't earn it.4 -
KICHZY✭✭✭✭biovitalb16_ESO wrote: »People should play content and earn rewards! Why should some "players" who has lots of gold simply be able to get these items without even playing the content?
I completely disagree with you, sorry.
This makes no sense. Wouldn't they have to play the game to earn that gold to buy items? With that kinda of logic everything in the game should be BoP, ore, herbs, wood, tempers...everything. If you didn't play the farming game you didn't earn it.
Instead of quoting me on my first post, read my others...1 -
altemriel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ones entitled to an opinion...
I still stand by my decision to keep BOE/BOP within the game, If a person cannot obtain something in-game @Wolfenbelle because of time restrictions then that is on them. You don't purchase a game and expect an option to unlock everything from the get go because "you haven't got as much time to play as others do"!
The same should imply here, If me or any other group spend our time completing Vet Trials/Dungeons why should you feel entitled to the reward for not even participating? again this is my opinion, (sorry for using lazy mofo's).
All I can suggest as a possible alternative is that with the new Craglorn supporting solo play somehow incorporate single player rewards so the more casual players have an option to obtain good items.
I somehow understand your point, and it seems to me, that this is a somehow similar topic to the threads longer time ago, asking "Why should PVEers not get access to PVP skill lines?", where I strongly replied, no - you do not play PVP - you do not get the PVP skills!
So technically the same should apply here, you do not play as a hardcore player, you should not be able to get the end game gear!
but there is the one difference, that for a casual player, to get lets say 100K or 200k gold (for which these end game sets would be sold in guild stores, I guess) requires maybe the same effort and time invested, as for a hard core players to run trials or vet dungeons more times!!
so please give us casual players some love ZOS and make this experiment happen - only for one quarter - let`s see what it will do!!!
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert
I hope this answers you question @altemriel, I watched PaxWest yesterday and what you are asking has been answered by Rich and Mike so look at the video below starting at 02:09:12 and you'll get your answer dude.
Video Link
and no I did not scout out some random video you can actually see me agreeing with them at 02:10:26
/END OF DISCUSSION
ok, I will check it out later today, thank you
1 -
altemriel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭biovitalb16_ESO wrote: »People should play content and earn rewards! Why should some "players" who has lots of gold simply be able to get these items without even playing the content?
I completely disagree with you, sorry.
This makes no sense. Wouldn't they have to play the game to earn that gold to buy items? With that kinda of logic everything in the game should be BoP, ore, herbs, wood, tempers...everything. If you didn't play the farming game you didn't earn it.
no, but @biovitalb16_ESO is right, from your perspective, the whole game should be a grinding contest. but some of us casuals do not have time for that, or do not like plain grinding.
we just play the game and enjoy the content.
what would be your counter-argument to this what I wrote yesterday (copied it bellow again)?
somehow understand your point, and it seems to me, that this is a somehow similar topic to the threads longer time ago, asking "Why should PVEers not get access to PVP skill lines?", where I strongly replied, no - you do not play PVP - you do not get the PVP skills!
So technically the same should apply here, you do not play as a hardcore player, you should not be able to get the end game gear!
But there is the one major difference, I am a total noob in PVP, but I was still easily able to unclock Rapid Maneuver and Vigor, but in this case for a casual player, to get lets say 100K or 200k gold (for which these end game sets would be sold in guild stores, I guess) requires maybe the same effort and time invested, as for a hard core players to run trials or vet dungeons more times!!Edited by altemriel on September 6, 2016 4:12AM1 -
altemriel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭at least change all BOPs to BOEs and sellable and tradable ZOS, that would be a fair deal!!!0 -
Voxicity✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Well you aren't the whole playerbase, are you?
I'm sure many do that, but we're talking big numbers here.
And why would they take the risk that the majority of players will just happily go about playing all kinds of content, when they can just give people a concrete reason to play that content?
Edited by Voxicity on September 6, 2016 12:49PM1 -
altemriel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Well you aren't the whole playerbase, are you?
I'm sure many do that, but we're talking big numbers here.
And why would they take the risk that the majority of players will just happily go about playing all kinds of content, when they can just give people a concrete reason to play that content?
of course not, but neither are you 0 -
AmberLaTerra✭✭✭✭
Then remove the Cyro helm seller. Let you pure PvP people have to actually run the content to get the helms and grind out the inpen trait. Let's see just how much rage that idea brings out as it is what you are all supporting PVE having to deal with.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
CP 365 Nord DK DPS EP
CP 365 Imperal DK Stam Tank EP
Level 9 Imperial Stam Templar EP
Cp 365 Khajiit Stam Blade EP
For the glory of the Pact1 -
Mortehl✭✭✭I stopped reading after 'unneeded exclusivity' when I realized this was another waambulance post for easy free loot in disguise.0
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altemriel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭AmberLaTerra wrote: »
Then remove the Cyro helm seller. Let you pure PvP people have to actually run the content to get the helms and grind out the inpen trait. Let's see just how much rage that idea brings out as it is what you are all supporting PVE having to deal with.
yes!!0 -
Peekachu99✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The change only "hurts" a very vocal minority who are worried they can no longer exploit a broken market. Your poor little friend needs gear? Good, carry him through a dungeon. It's all tradeable in group. I finished off all my Hist sets in less than a week (with good traits), doing one or two dungeons a night. Teamwork and participation. Most of the stuff won't even need the absurd gear and attendance checks seen (but unnecessary) for trials, so more variety and accessibility for all. Again, the only people whingeing are those who can't exploit time-poor players who now might actually have a shot at BIS--by doing content that provides said rewards, as it should be.
I'm a PC xfer, 9 trait crafter and I came to console with mountains of gold. Would I rather have farmed most of my CP 160 rings and necklaces rather than spending hundreds of thousands of gold to equip 4 main toons with jewlery? Umm, yeah, I would have. But the option wasn't available and BOE was all there was.
I honestly hope that this change and one Tamriel is the smoke before the fire of ZoS incinerating their abomination of a trading system. Convenience is key and nothing about the current system is convenient for either buyers or sellers.
I think radically changes are coming for trading, and that's even better news buried amid the drama.
0 -
Peekachu99✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭KingYogi415 wrote: »No, they need to stop taking a hammer to the meta people enjoy and leave things as they are.
These huge meta shift's push away long time players and ruin the game.
We always hear these kinds of veiled mass-abandonment threats--Heck, I've even made them myself before (passionate players often swing quite wildly on the mood pendulum when changes are introduced). It never amounts to anything. And we're still here.
Change is good. We should see how it pans out before shrieking that the sky is falling.0 -
visionality✭✭✭✭✭Disagreed.
I think it's good at there is some stuff you really have to earn yourself. First of all, it gives you a feeling of acomplishment when you earn yourself a full set of something you wanted for a long time, second it also forces players to equip themselves in a wider variety of sets as not everybody can or wants to play the same content. Also the group exchange for loot helps a lot to farm missing set pieces if you run with friends or halfway nice people.
That being said, I disagree with the RNG disaster Zenimax is doing on loot drops, handing out "rewards" that are totally worthless due to their traits (just got a vDSA master destro staff with powered - painful...). If people wouldn't get so much garbage on a farming run, they wouldn't feel their time so badly wasted.0 -
sluice✭✭✭✭People need to work (aka grind for their stuff). I'm fine with that.
But some stuff is just too painful to get right now.
I will repeat what I have been repeating in a few threads now.
Say you are looking at a specific weapon. We will take a Maelstrom Inferno Staff - sharpened for this example.
Yours odds of getting this staff in 1 vMA run is 1.04% (1 out of 96 possible drops).
Now what about if you run vMA 100 times? You should get it right? No! Because with RNG you have still have 1.04% chance of getting this item EVERY run. What we can calculate though is the chance of getting that staff after X runs. Because obviously the more vMA runs you do, the more chance you have of getting that staff.
Let's take a very high amount of runs: 100. Without going into all of the mathematics, the probability of getting 1 Sharpened staff in 100 drops is 64.14%.
Now you might think! 64% That's good. Please remember that this is from 100 drops and there is still a 35.86% chance of NOT getting this staff within those 100 runs. Do you want to invest 100+ hours to have 35% of not getting the item you are seeking?
The biggest frustration is with RNG you never know what is going to happen. You may run 1000+ runs and you will never get that staff with the current system.
Other interesting probabilities:Odds of getting that Sharpened Inferno Staff:
1 run: 1.04%
5 runs: 5%
10 runs: 9.75%
20 runs: 18.55%
50 runs: 36.97%
100 runs: 64.14%
150 runs: 78.53%
200 runs: 87.14%
300 runs: 95.39%
1000 runs: 99.997%PSN: sluiceqc (NA-PS4) CP: 551+
I strictly play on Daggerfall Covenant for when it comes to PvPDaggerfall Covenant
sluice - Orc Sorcerer (50)
Anýa - Bosmer Nightblade (0..50)
Aldmeri Dominion (PvE only)
Arýä - Altmer Sorcerer (50)
Marksar - Breton Templar (50)
Maksar - Bosmer Nightblade (50)
sluice - Imperial Dragonknight (0..50) R.I.P.
Ebonheart Pact
Can't-Heal-Stupid - Argonian Templar (0..50)
#VMATOKENSYSTEM #TRAITCHANGE
(vMA) drop table and probability0 -
Voxicity✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AmberLaTerra wrote: »
Then remove the Cyro helm seller. Let you pure PvP people have to actually run the content to get the helms and grind out the inpen trait. Let's see just how much rage that idea brings out as it is what you are all supporting PVE having to deal with.
''Pure PvP people''
I actually spend more time outside of Cyrodiil than inside 0 -
Voxicity✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Well you aren't the whole playerbase, are you?
I'm sure many do that, but we're talking big numbers here.
And why would they take the risk that the majority of players will just happily go about playing all kinds of content, when they can just give people a concrete reason to play that content?
of course not, but neither are you
Correct. But the majority of players don't do content for the fun. They do it because they want to earn gear, and making gear BOP means they have to run the content more and for longer. Thus prolonging the life of the game for the MAJORITY of people.2 -
Soleya✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Well you aren't the whole playerbase, are you?
I'm sure many do that, but we're talking big numbers here.
And why would they take the risk that the majority of players will just happily go about playing all kinds of content, when they can just give people a concrete reason to play that content?
of course not, but neither are you
Correct. But the majority of players don't do content for the fun. They do it because they want to earn gear, and making gear BOP means they have to run the content more and for longer. Thus prolonging the life of the game for the MAJORITY of people.
If your not playing the game to enjoy it, then your doing it wrong.
Games are meant to be fun, not mindless boring slogs.
The day I stop enjoying content, will be the day I quit playing.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭While I don't like the changes made to the trials gear that drops BoE ATM, Ibiovitalb16_ESO wrote: »People should play content and earn rewards! Why should some "players" who has lots of gold simply be able to get these items without even playing the content?
I completely disagree with you, sorry.
This makes no sense. Wouldn't they have to play the game to earn that gold to buy items? With that kinda of logic everything in the game should be BoP, ore, herbs, wood, tempers...everything. If you didn't play the farming game you didn't earn it.
Trial gear is usually the best gear in the game. Though Zos has a history is messing this up we actually have good trial gear ATM.
Aether & Ophidian should not be available for purchase.
OP has not offered any justification others than for an experiment.0 -
Saucy_Jack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Peekachu99 wrote: »Again, the only people whingeing are those who can't exploit time-poor players who now might actually have a shot at BIS--by doing content that provides said rewards, as it should be.
I'm a PC xfer, 9 trait crafter and I came to console with mountains of gold. Would I rather have farmed most of my CP 160 rings and necklaces rather than spending hundreds of thousands of gold to equip 4 main toons with jewlery? Umm, yeah, I would have. But the option wasn't available and BOE was all there was.
As someone who's in five trading guilds and as someone who's relatively "time-poor", I would LOVE it if people offered to sell loot from places that I simply don't have time to slog through again and again and again and again - first to learn the mechanics, and then to get good slots/traits - but for which I DO have the gold to spend.
We're not talking about Olympic medals or Nobel prizes here; we're talking about gearsets. Why shouldn't they be sellable? Because a player didn't "earn it"? If a player's willing to drop multiple hundreds of thousands of gold - that took a long time to save up - then you bet your arse that players "earned" anything they can afford. Which, in my opinion, should also include trial/dungeon/arena gearsets, if people are willing to sell excess pieces.ALL HAIL SNUGGLORR THE MAGNIFICENT, KING OF THE RNG AND NIRN'S ONE TRUE GOD! Also, become a Scrub-scriber! SJ Scrubs: Playing games badly to make you feel better about yourself.5 -
KingYogi415✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Peekachu99 wrote: »KingYogi415 wrote: »No, they need to stop taking a hammer to the meta people enjoy and leave things as they are.
These huge meta shift's push away long time players and ruin the game.
We always hear these kinds of veiled mass-abandonment threats--Heck, I've even made them myself before (passionate players often swing quite wildly on the mood pendulum when changes are introduced). It never amounts to anything. And we're still here.
Change is good. We should see how it pans out before shrieking that the sky is falling.
Not a threat, never said I was leaving. Facts are huge meta shifts like this drive away long time players.
I'm a realest. I don't look at a cup and say whether it's half empty or full, I say it's full of urine and don't want to drink it.Edited by KingYogi415 on September 6, 2016 7:58PM0 -
KingYogi415✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Peekachu99 wrote: »The change only "hurts" a very vocal minority who are worried they can no longer exploit a broken market. Your poor little friend needs gear? Good, carry him through a dungeon. It's all tradeable in group. I finished off all my Hist sets in less than a week (with good traits), doing one or two dungeons a night. Teamwork and participation. Most of the stuff won't even need the absurd gear and attendance checks seen (but unnecessary) for trials, so more variety and accessibility for all. Again, the only people whingeing are those who can't exploit time-poor players who now might actually have a shot at BIS--by doing content that provides said rewards, as it should be.
I'm a PC xfer, 9 trait crafter and I came to console with mountains of gold. Would I rather have farmed most of my CP 160 rings and necklaces rather than spending hundreds of thousands of gold to equip 4 main toons with jewlery? Umm, yeah, I would have. But the option wasn't available and BOE was all there was.
I honestly hope that this change and one Tamriel is the smoke before the fire of ZoS incinerating their abomination of a trading system. Convenience is key and nothing about the current system is convenient for either buyers or sellers.
I think radically changes are coming for trading, and that's even better news buried amid the drama.
is this satire? How can other people magically farm BOE items, that you can't?
I have Millions of gold and I have never bought a single set piece for over 50k. I bought my first ever 16 gold tempers yesterday. When I wanted something I went out a farmed it.
If you hate the guild trading system so much, maybe find another game, rather then cry about how bad things are.
Now when you want a set from trials, I hope your already geared with purple trials jewelry, because the broke trials runners won't be carrying though to your prize.0 -
MaxBat✭✭✭I'll tell you why the OP's idea has merit - and it has more to do with me than some poor level 35 newbie who just started the game.
I'm getting sick of getting a drop at a trial that the exact same as the other THREE previous versions of the item that I have in my bank. Now, I can trade it, yeah. Right then. To the people in my party. But if we all have them, then I might as well have just got a few crafting materials for my trouble.
Or maybe I decide to keep it (say it's the first item of its kind I get) in hopes of getting the rest. Instead, I get three or four more of the item because, dammit, that makes sense, right?
Please, give me a chance to sell this stuff off.
Edited by MaxBat on September 6, 2016 8:07PM"Funny that magic doesn't work when a mace caves in your skull."
Playing on a PC, NA Server, since that very first day ...3 -
MaxBat✭✭✭Saucy_Jack wrote: »Peekachu99 wrote: »Again, the only people whingeing are those who can't exploit time-poor players who now might actually have a shot at BIS--by doing content that provides said rewards, as it should be.
I'm a PC xfer, 9 trait crafter and I came to console with mountains of gold. Would I rather have farmed most of my CP 160 rings and necklaces rather than spending hundreds of thousands of gold to equip 4 main toons with jewlery? Umm, yeah, I would have. But the option wasn't available and BOE was all there was.
As someone who's in five trading guilds and as someone who's relatively "time-poor", I would LOVE it if people offered to sell loot from places that I simply don't have time to slog through again and again and again and again - first to learn the mechanics, and then to get good slots/traits - but for which I DO have the gold to spend.
We're not talking about Olympic medals or Nobel prizes here; we're talking about gearsets. Why shouldn't they be sellable? Because a player didn't "earn it"? If a player's willing to drop multiple hundreds of thousands of gold - that took a long time to save up - then you bet your arse that players "earned" anything they can afford. Which, in my opinion, should also include trial/dungeon/arena gearsets, if people are willing to sell excess pieces.
This right here.
Bound items of any kind doesn't make sense to me. It's even more frustrating when I give up an entire day to run three trials, wait while people get together, get their friends together, find an experienced tank, find another heals, only to have the same damn bow drop for me every single trial (true story).
C'mon, really?
And honestly, people are selling crafted sets that are as good as or better than some of this stuff. And if what you need is to be the special snowflake, then have Zeni give you a special achievement or slap a title on your character.
To the OP, thanks for posting this. Bound stuff needs to go.
Edited by MaxBat on September 6, 2016 8:16PM"Funny that magic doesn't work when a mace caves in your skull."
Playing on a PC, NA Server, since that very first day ...4 -
KingYogi415✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭New Players: Please make everything in the game BOE
ZOS: Alright, better make ALL PVE content BOP. WHOO balance!Edited by KingYogi415 on September 6, 2016 8:22PM0 -
potirondb16_ESO✭✭✭Thanks @KICHZY for the video link !
I can't agree with the answer we've receive, since a lot player actually went Inside the trial in order to experience the content due to that new popularity of the gear which was available in it and it's been one of the amazing conclusion of Shadow of the Hist for me. More player then ever were actually organizing open group and it opens the door for an outstanding attractivity and outstanding participation to those trial as well.
The fact that everything could be made BoE is in my opinion a NO GO since the people who were actually doing the trial and were actually creating that participation were likely to look after BoP gear which is why those people created team. So everything behind the BoE scenario is just as bad and will end-up creating only a bigger market for reseller over anything else.
In order to create a balance inbetween Financial incentive (normal mode farmer) and experimentation incentive (Veteran trial team formation) they need to cover both aspect at hand. Gives normal mode weaker Financial incentive while trying to retain the population who's been going at it. And created more experimentation incentive, (unique gear, unique type of bonus, etc., special source of income) in order to encourage people to run veteran mode type trial.
The biggest step there is Inside this game is going from a 4-man core group to a 12-man core group able to run veteran trial and i'm not yet talking HM. They need to encourage people to do so and I believe they got a pretty nice opening for 1-man core with vMA, a pretty good one too with vDSA, now they need to keep that balance for trial as well.
Edited by potirondb16_ESO on September 6, 2016 9:06PM1
