Xinthisis wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

If you run heavy, ANY heavy armor, for dps.....nm for now.


Ooook. 1800÷4= 450 not 650.

Stam poison breaks any Heavy armor build unless dot heavy or Heavy attack is spammed. Heavy attack takes 3 seconds to charge and can be dodged easy.

Medium armor cost reduction almost negates stam poison.

Black Rose is fine. Your complaint is with heavy armor in general it sounds like. If anything heavy armor should have reduced movement speed.

Can keep going but think This is enough. Dont be mad your NB doesnt have a spammable regen source. Siphon is awesome.

You do realize regen tics every 2 seconds right?
Stam poison breaks heavy armor? So now we're bringing in mechanics that arent related to armor now? K

The lengths people will go to defend things that are obviously too strong.

"We need magicka versions" smfh, thats not why magicka is crap. That's a whole separate discussion.

Wasnt mathing right, my bad. Still doesnt change the fact your beef is with heavy armor, not black rose

NB's QQing about Black Rose *rolls eyes*.

Black Rose is fine.

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Xinthisis wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

If you run heavy, ANY heavy armor, for dps.....nm for now.


Ooook. 1800÷4= 450 not 650.

Stam poison breaks any Heavy armor build unless dot heavy or Heavy attack is spammed. Heavy attack takes 3 seconds to charge and can be dodged easy.

Medium armor cost reduction almost negates stam poison.

Black Rose is fine. Your complaint is with heavy armor in general it sounds like. If anything heavy armor should have reduced movement speed.

Can keep going but think This is enough. Dont be mad your NB doesnt have a spammable regen source. Siphon is awesome.

You do realize regen tics every 2 seconds right?
Stam poison breaks heavy armor? So now we're bringing in mechanics that arent related to armor now? K

The lengths people will go to defend things that are obviously too strong.

"We need magicka versions" smfh, thats not why magicka is crap. That's a whole separate discussion.

Wasnt mathing right, my bad. Still doesnt change the fact your beef is with heavy armor, not black rose

Seems like most people that are disagreeing with me aren't mathing right, or taking into consideration how actual combat in cyrodiil plays out. Kinda funny how that happens.

All I'm asking for is a rebalancing. If people truly are using it as a sustain set, then lets leave the sustain aspects of it alone. Get rid of the wd and spell damage, and since everyone is always complaining about how magicka gets no love. Make it a universal set by making one of the stam buffs a mag buff.

Or we can just leave it as is and watch the 5 black rose, 5 dreugh (max stam set), 2 monster helm stam builds dominate cyrodiil next patch.

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

I think a better option would be to buff light and medium armor sustain and damage output.

I think ZOS should add more cost reduction and regeneration to light armor. Also Magicka in general needs a buff so adding spell damage would work.

Medium is already pretty darn good so I would be very conservative with any increases it gets. Particularly what those increases would be.

Blackrose and heavy armor in general are fine imo, it's just when wearing this set it highlights the need for buffs to light armor and medium to a lesser extent.

Are you insane?! Time to kill is already stupid low and the power creep from the new sets is beyond excessive. As the CP cap keeps increasing this game is becoming more and more dominated by the burst meta.

Ttk is stupidly low huh? I guess you didn't play this game last year when 1.6 dropped and stam builds could pull 50k wb's out of stealth. Also are you saying that light armor wearer's (i e Magicka builds) are a part of this burst meta? Try playing a Magicka dk and tell me you have burst. Sure sorcs and NB can burst but that doesn't have anything to do with power creep or CP caps, it's in their class design.

This post was about Blackrose, and I find trying to kill players using reactive armor much more difficult to finish off since the way I kill them is wearing them down then cc then try to burst, and resource management is part of that which has become much more difficult since UD 11 dropped.

Seems like a QQ post. I have been playing with BR set for quite sometime now, its a great dueling set and thats it. When you go against anything over 3+ players and you start dodge rolling and spamming your cleanse & buffs that stamina regen goes out the window. It's a great sustain set but limited by being non craftable. Problem is not the set, the Heavy Armor passives which is stupid good for the meta atm.

All the nightblades complaining now that people are moving to tankier builds and can't be one shot. Think about it, Black Rose has been in the game forever and wasn't messed with and no one complained.

Then they changed the traits, and made the tweak to sharpened that we are all so familiar with now. It reverted the game back to 1.6 ish of the stam nightblades. Everyone got sick of being so squishy and moved to heavy armor builds that allow you to survive a bit better.

Now all the nightblades demanding nerfs. Funny.

Resource sustain is out of control with the current CP system. Fengrush talked about it on his stream, why should he be able to duel with only 550 recovery and have no resource issues? This allows people to get away with wearing heavy armor and worry less about the tradeoffs. The weapon damage you get from HA and BR is laughable.

As for the whole magicka vs stamina part, isn't desert rose the magicka equivalent of black rose? I honestly can't recall what Desert Rose does or what the set bonuses are and I'm too lazy to look them up. I just know I have a piece of it in the bank and considered gearing out my nightblade in it.

Vaoh wrote: »

Rage_Killin wrote: »

Black rose is fine.

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Black rose is fine.

The fact that these two identical posts got 20+ and 10 agrees respectively, is downright disappointing.

There are a ton of people actually crutching on Black Rose right now. And why wouldn't they? This set is good enough to turn bad players into dangerous players. Really sad tbh.

Literally all of the "strongest" builds are heavy armor Stamina builds using this set. In action, it is a beast of a set that gives you everything you need and much more.

If it wasn't so strong, we wouldn't see it used by all of the meta players. I suggest removing that overkill weapon/spell damage bonus and reducing the resource gain to 30-35%. Simple.

Who are you to say literally all of the strongest builds are using black rose?

The issues with this set just show how unbalanced things are with the game. With more additions of sets like this, you really can be everything all in one. A massive tank who takes little damage while dishing out a ton in return. These sets are what ruin PVP IMO, things need to come back how they used to be where you had to sacrifice one area to be the best in another. Not everything all in one package.

Nevermind.

Xinthisis wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

I think a better option would be to buff light and medium armor sustain and damage output.

I think ZOS should add more cost reduction and regeneration to light armor. Also Magicka in general needs a buff so adding spell damage would work.

Medium is already pretty darn good so I would be very conservative with any increases it gets. Particularly what those increases would be.

Blackrose and heavy armor in general are fine imo, it's just when wearing this set it highlights the need for buffs to light armor and medium to a lesser extent.

Are you insane?! Time to kill is already stupid low and the power creep from the new sets is beyond excessive. As the CP cap keeps increasing this game is becoming more and more dominated by the burst meta.

The burst meta is a meta because you cant drain the resources of people like you once could due to the change in the scaling of the game(no more softcaps, and cp being increasingly defensive). Once upon a time skilled players could run high sustain builds and kill players by draining their stamina, cc them, and ending it while they lay on the ground. Currently cc is mostly used to unleash a 1 shot combo. Not to drain players of their stam. Any player with a somewhat average knowledge of the game is not going to die due to poor stamina management. No. They die because the only way to kill players now is to burst them. whether thats from 100-0 or using dots then drop an ult to take them from 60-0 on the tankier players.

Poisons? Works for me. Don't need high burst if you take all their resources.

Xinthisis wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Xinthisis wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

If you run heavy, ANY heavy armor, for dps.....nm for now.


Ooook. 1800÷4= 450 not 650.

Stam poison breaks any Heavy armor build unless dot heavy or Heavy attack is spammed. Heavy attack takes 3 seconds to charge and can be dodged easy.

Medium armor cost reduction almost negates stam poison.

Black Rose is fine. Your complaint is with heavy armor in general it sounds like. If anything heavy armor should have reduced movement speed.

Can keep going but think This is enough. Dont be mad your NB doesnt have a spammable regen source. Siphon is awesome.

You do realize regen tics every 2 seconds right?
Stam poison breaks heavy armor? So now we're bringing in mechanics that arent related to armor now? K

The lengths people will go to defend things that are obviously too strong.

"We need magicka versions" smfh, thats not why magicka is crap. That's a whole separate discussion.

Wasnt mathing right, my bad. Still doesnt change the fact your beef is with heavy armor, not black rose

Seems like most people that are disagreeing with me aren't mathing right, or taking into consideration how actual combat in cyrodiil plays out. Kinda funny how that happens.

All I'm asking for is a rebalancing. If people truly are using it as a sustain set, then lets leave the sustain aspects of it alone. Get rid of the wd and spell damage, and since everyone is always complaining about how magicka gets no love. Make it a universal set by making one of the stam buffs a mag buff.

Or we can just leave it as is and watch the 5 black rose, 5 dreugh (max stam set), 2 monster helm stam builds dominate cyrodiil next patch.

You have to be hit to proc resources. You cannot shield, dodgeroll, use shuffle, etc.

Once you stop getting hit, you don't get resources, which leads to several strategies. For example, attack someone else while the black rose wearer depletes their resources. Once resources are depleted, 4sec is 2x more than anyone needs to burst them down (if geared properly).

Of course, wrath is also on hit and same strat applies. Further, you can heavily heal debuff a black rose wearer and hit with big hits instead of many hits to keep their weapon damage down. Not much different than killing blazing shield spammers with heavy attacks.

Robbmrp wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

The issues with this set just show how unbalanced things are with the game. With more additions of sets like this, you really can be everything all in one. A massive tank who takes little damage while dishing out a ton in return. These sets are what ruin PVP IMO, things need to come back how they used to be where you had to sacrifice one area to be the best in another. Not everything all in one package.

@Robbmrp Do me a favor and go compare the mitigation % of 5h/2m to 5m/2h. This idea of heavy users being this massive tank is flat out wrong.

@Erock25 Why should people wear medium armor when they can stack heavy armor and do just as much damage as they could with 5 Medium armor passives? It's not just about mitigation. It's about having the best DPS, Healing and resistance with heavy armor and these unbalanced sets instead of having to choose which you want, and what you want to give up.

@Robbmrp What makes you say heavy armor does just as much damage as medium? That's wrong. Fully stacked Wrath passive is like 200 weapon dmg which doesn't come close to 12% weapon dmg boost from 5 medium, not to mention the crit which does help you in PVP even if the affects are diminished. This is ignoring the fact that Wrath buff frequently falls off. Go record yourself in different scenarios in PVP and watch your Wrath buff .... 6 seconds go by without taking dmg all the time. Heavy armor also doesn't have the best healing. It's about the same amount of healing as medium BUT that isn't including the extra crit from medium. The base level of Vigor is just about even with heavy armor healing passives and medium armor increased weapon dmg.

I didn't know vali + eternal hunt + viper was black rose?

Black Rose is fine.