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Proposed Blackrose change
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Edziu just a tip. If gap closers are a problem (and they can be) I suggest trying eternal hunt. It's perfect for creating distances and resetting positioning etc...0 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭@xellink
ok yes....just forgot after all write then just perm blockers.....just most of heavy armor players are with "perm block" while 1vs1, they are my nightmare if not just better player
after all what I have read in this thread now I think this heavy armor, black rose etc arnt problem...they are ok///just these build with nonstop block are the most annyoing etcWaffennacht wrote: »@Edziu just a tip. If gap closers are a problem (and they can be) I suggest trying eternal hunt. It's perfect for creating distances and resetting positioning etc...
and thx, I will take it to know as for good thing agains gap close spammers
while need to run away 0 -
RobTheAxe✭✭Thanks for the replies to my post all !!!!!! I'm really glad to hear it !!! I greatly look forward to making a next video!0
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Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Currently Blackrose is overperforming for stamina based builds in pvp. The set has it all, from tankiness (impen and its heavy armor), sustain (1300+ return to resources which translates into 650+ regen that cant be canceled out by blocking or sprinting), and damage (150 spell/weapon damage and 2 max stam buffs). Now, I understand what the set was meant to be, and thats a somewhat balanced hybrid/tank sustain build. Not a high burst, high sustain build. The proposed "nerfs" I would suggest is to first change one of the max stam buffs to a max magicka buff, and to reduce the constitution buff to 30% or COMPLETELY remove the 150 spell and weapon damage buff. With the changes to heavy armor in most cases blackrose is able to stack more damage than medium armor builds (200wd from wrath passive+150wd from set bonus with the 2 max stam buffs), while still sustaining and tanking better than medium armor. Remove around 1200 stam, and 150 weapon damage and you'll start to see more variety in builds again. Especially with the new sets coming out soon.
That's an excellent suggestion. If they remove the weapon damage on the five piece it would be a step in the right direction.5 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Currently Blackrose is overperforming for stamina based builds in pvp. The set has it all, from tankiness (impen and its heavy armor), sustain (1300+ return to resources which translates into 650+ regen that cant be canceled out by blocking or sprinting), and damage (150 spell/weapon damage and 2 max stam buffs). Now, I understand what the set was meant to be, and thats a somewhat balanced hybrid/tank sustain build. Not a high burst, high sustain build. The proposed "nerfs" I would suggest is to first change one of the max stam buffs to a max magicka buff, and to reduce the constitution buff to 30% or COMPLETELY remove the 150 spell and weapon damage buff. With the changes to heavy armor in most cases blackrose is able to stack more damage than medium armor builds (200wd from wrath passive+150wd from set bonus with the 2 max stam buffs), while still sustaining and tanking better than medium armor. Remove around 1200 stam, and 150 weapon damage and you'll start to see more variety in builds again. Especially with the new sets coming out soon.
That's an excellent suggestion. If they remove the weapon damage on the five piece it would be a step in the right direction.
So you want the 5 piece bonus of black rose to be "Gain 260 (in 7 heavy armor, around 210 in 5) stamina and magicka regen while taking damage." You're basically saying that you want no one to use Black Rose ever again. You realize that right?
You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points3 -
Xinthisis✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Currently Blackrose is overperforming for stamina based builds in pvp. The set has it all, from tankiness (impen and its heavy armor), sustain (1300+ return to resources which translates into 650+ regen that cant be canceled out by blocking or sprinting), and damage (150 spell/weapon damage and 2 max stam buffs). Now, I understand what the set was meant to be, and thats a somewhat balanced hybrid/tank sustain build. Not a high burst, high sustain build. The proposed "nerfs" I would suggest is to first change one of the max stam buffs to a max magicka buff, and to reduce the constitution buff to 30% or COMPLETELY remove the 150 spell and weapon damage buff. With the changes to heavy armor in most cases blackrose is able to stack more damage than medium armor builds (200wd from wrath passive+150wd from set bonus with the 2 max stam buffs), while still sustaining and tanking better than medium armor. Remove around 1200 stam, and 150 weapon damage and you'll start to see more variety in builds again. Especially with the new sets coming out soon.
That's an excellent suggestion. If they remove the weapon damage on the five piece it would be a step in the right direction.
So you want the 5 piece bonus of black rose to be "Gain 260 (in 7 heavy armor, around 210 in 5) stamina and magicka regen while taking damage." You're basically saying that you want no one to use Black Rose ever again. You realize that right?
Tanks will still use Blackrose, and hybrid builds will try to use it as well. Its a do all be all set atm, and that's why it's overperforming.1 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Currently Blackrose is overperforming for stamina based builds in pvp. The set has it all, from tankiness (impen and its heavy armor), sustain (1300+ return to resources which translates into 650+ regen that cant be canceled out by blocking or sprinting), and damage (150 spell/weapon damage and 2 max stam buffs). Now, I understand what the set was meant to be, and thats a somewhat balanced hybrid/tank sustain build. Not a high burst, high sustain build. The proposed "nerfs" I would suggest is to first change one of the max stam buffs to a max magicka buff, and to reduce the constitution buff to 30% or COMPLETELY remove the 150 spell and weapon damage buff. With the changes to heavy armor in most cases blackrose is able to stack more damage than medium armor builds (200wd from wrath passive+150wd from set bonus with the 2 max stam buffs), while still sustaining and tanking better than medium armor. Remove around 1200 stam, and 150 weapon damage and you'll start to see more variety in builds again. Especially with the new sets coming out soon.
That's an excellent suggestion. If they remove the weapon damage on the five piece it would be a step in the right direction.
So you want the 5 piece bonus of black rose to be "Gain 260 (in 7 heavy armor, around 210 in 5) stamina and magicka regen while taking damage." You're basically saying that you want no one to use Black Rose ever again. You realize that right?
Tanks will still use Blackrose, and hybrid builds will try to use it as well. Its a do all be all set atm, and that's why it's overperforming.
No way will focused tanks use black rose over reactive. Why even bring up hybrids and why would a hybrid use black rose over pelinal (can't use both)? You're kidding yourself if you think anyone will use black rose with a 5 piece bonus of Gain 260 (in 7 heavy armor, around 210 in 5) stamina and magicka regen while taking damage.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points1 -
Xinthisis✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Currently Blackrose is overperforming for stamina based builds in pvp. The set has it all, from tankiness (impen and its heavy armor), sustain (1300+ return to resources which translates into 650+ regen that cant be canceled out by blocking or sprinting), and damage (150 spell/weapon damage and 2 max stam buffs). Now, I understand what the set was meant to be, and thats a somewhat balanced hybrid/tank sustain build. Not a high burst, high sustain build. The proposed "nerfs" I would suggest is to first change one of the max stam buffs to a max magicka buff, and to reduce the constitution buff to 30% or COMPLETELY remove the 150 spell and weapon damage buff. With the changes to heavy armor in most cases blackrose is able to stack more damage than medium armor builds (200wd from wrath passive+150wd from set bonus with the 2 max stam buffs), while still sustaining and tanking better than medium armor. Remove around 1200 stam, and 150 weapon damage and you'll start to see more variety in builds again. Especially with the new sets coming out soon.
That's an excellent suggestion. If they remove the weapon damage on the five piece it would be a step in the right direction.
So you want the 5 piece bonus of black rose to be "Gain 260 (in 7 heavy armor, around 210 in 5) stamina and magicka regen while taking damage." You're basically saying that you want no one to use Black Rose ever again. You realize that right?
Tanks will still use Blackrose, and hybrid builds will try to use it as well. Its a do all be all set atm, and that's why it's overperforming.
No way will focused tanks use black rose over reactive. Why even bring up hybrids and why would a hybrid use black rose over pelinal (can't use both)? You're kidding yourself if you think anyone will use black rose with a 5 piece bonus of Gain 260 (in 7 heavy armor, around 210 in 5) stamina and magicka regen while taking damage.
You know what, screw it. leave it the way it is. I'll get some clips together on my stam dk and post it here once i unlock everything i need for it. You want to see how it overperforms firsthand, I'll show you.1 -
Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭spam gap closer, talons, spam gap closer, talons, det pot
and how to l2p counter det pot while spammed by gap closer ;P
l2p to dont touch then any heavy armor wearers, so 95% of templars and 80%+ of all dk in pvp
I don't want to sound condescending but changes in meta is difficult for majority of players to deal with. Here are a few points to help improve your game...
1. a lot of gap closers don't disable their targets, they just make you immobile such as critical charge. However, if the player is using S&B (which is abused by black rose users), there is a knockdown. Its probably not in your twitch reflex because S&B wasn't popular in PVP before. You need to dodge/block it and then CC the player. This gives you an opportunity to reset the fight. Even if you don't block it, you can break free but you will be at a massive disadvantage in a battle.
2. HA wearers consist of 33 or less percent of the players in Cyro. This means for every three players you see, you will encounter 1 HA player. HA players have less mobility, which equates to less alliance points when they are ignored. It is still possible to kill the majority of HA players and their health usually sits at 25k or so.
3. There is a misconception that HA translates to a lot more armor and damage mitigation. IT does not. There is a cap for resistances. However, what HA gains is 1) more HP regen and healing received 2) more HP 3) Increased damage on the condition they get hit. Wrath starts off weak and gets stronger. Therefore it becomes more favourable for HA users to build for sustain and drag fights to maximise the effect of Wrath.
Burst users usually start with a small advantage of surprise while dragging a battle increases disadvantage against a burst damage user. Sustained damage users like longer battles. If the battle is dragging for too long, you are probably going to lose, so leave. reset the fight when you feel the battle is too long but whether the other player allows it is a matter of both player's skill.
5. HA users have less critical damage, which means switching away some of the impenetrable trait from your armor will help you against them. However, the metagame hasn't shift because it cost people to switch their armor out completely and hence most players still run impen and spike damage, giving HA a slight advantage at the moment. But metas do catch up over time, a watch and wait approach to balancing is more prudent.
This is the best run down of how to adapt ive seen so far.
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Barlthump✭✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »I don't understand a couple of things about the heavy Armour and sword + board skill-lines (includes Black Rose opinion). I believe Black Rose is an issue but there are also issues with S+B and Heavy Armour that extenuate the Black Rose Issue.
- 1: Why does Sword and Board have an increase to weapon damage passive?
- 2: Why does heavy Armour grant weapon damage after taking damage?
- 3: Why should black rose grant both damage and sustain?
- 4: Why should bashing with Sword and Board cost less?
1: I have the same opinions about Sword and Board passives giving you weapon damage. Why should the Defensive weapon skill-line be granting you more damage? If you want more damage you should be using 2H or DW which are more offensive weapon skill-lines. I personally would much rather see the amount of damage you can block increased instead of weapon damage.
2: Heavy Armour getting more damage over-time also kind of seem's not necessary. You pick up heavy Armour to be tanky. I'd much rather see heavy Armour grant more resistances over-time while you take damage instead. I don't think it's right that heavy Armour can become competitive in damage to light or medium Armour wearers over-time in a fight when heavy Armour is suppose to be the tanky Armour skill-line.
3: I'm not a fan of Black Rose because it gives you damage as well as very good sustain. It's the complete package set for heavy Armour. Heavy Armour users should have to decide between damage vs resource sustain. This set has a lot of both and it's kind of over-kill in my opinion.
4: I don't understand why Bashing should cost less stamina compared to other weapon types. I find it funny that ZOS thinks its easier to bash someone with a giant heavy shield then it is compared to the other weapon types. I'm fine with the extra damage because your getting hit by a big heavy shield.
Personally i think this "light attack, ability, bash" rotation should be abolished. Bashing should be used not to gain a dps boost. Bashing should be used tactically to interrupt ability's and such. So in my opinion i'd much rather see the increase to bash damage be increased by double but only proc when you successfully interrupt an attack.
These are my opinions and concerns about heavy Armour which includes my opinion on Black Rose also.
1) the weapon damage it gives is not even too much.
2) the state resistances are in this game for pvp is negligible. Sharpened weapons + cp brings a heavy armor tank to almost nover resistances.
3) once again 100 weapon damage doesn't change much.
4) well if you ever enter PvE, you would know why bashing is important. But you probably PvP all day long so I can't blame you. Let me explain:
Once upon a time you would regen stam while blocking, but PvP idiots abused it. Then some other PvP idiots whined about it so tanks took a huge hit and couldn't regen stamina while blocking trials. Now some PvP idiots want bashing to cost more. So tanks would suffer again cause they can't bash bosses and adds channeling.Edited by Barlthump on September 21, 2016 4:51PM1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Currently Blackrose is overperforming for stamina based builds in pvp. The set has it all, from tankiness (impen and its heavy armor), sustain (1300+ return to resources which translates into 650+ regen that cant be canceled out by blocking or sprinting), and damage (150 spell/weapon damage and 2 max stam buffs). Now, I understand what the set was meant to be, and thats a somewhat balanced hybrid/tank sustain build. Not a high burst, high sustain build. The proposed "nerfs" I would suggest is to first change one of the max stam buffs to a max magicka buff, and to reduce the constitution buff to 30% or COMPLETELY remove the 150 spell and weapon damage buff. With the changes to heavy armor in most cases blackrose is able to stack more damage than medium armor builds (200wd from wrath passive+150wd from set bonus with the 2 max stam buffs), while still sustaining and tanking better than medium armor. Remove around 1200 stam, and 150 weapon damage and you'll start to see more variety in builds again. Especially with the new sets coming out soon.
That's an excellent suggestion. If they remove the weapon damage on the five piece it would be a step in the right direction.
So you want the 5 piece bonus of black rose to be "Gain 260 (in 7 heavy armor, around 210 in 5) stamina and magicka regen while taking damage." You're basically saying that you want no one to use Black Rose ever again. You realize that right?
Tanks will still use Blackrose, and hybrid builds will try to use it as well. Its a do all be all set atm, and that's why it's overperforming.
No way will focused tanks use black rose over reactive. Why even bring up hybrids and why would a hybrid use black rose over pelinal (can't use both)? You're kidding yourself if you think anyone will use black rose with a 5 piece bonus of Gain 260 (in 7 heavy armor, around 210 in 5) stamina and magicka regen while taking damage.
You know what, screw it. leave it the way it is. I'll get some clips together on my stam dk and post it here once i unlock everything i need for it. You want to see how it overperforms firsthand, I'll show you.
Do it, and don't you dare show some CP 300 gettin rekt as if it's evidence of anything2 -
Xinthisis✭✭✭✭@Waffennacht Just something to start, if it doesn't start at 5:32 skip to it if you like. I've only just started using the build but its obvious that Blackrose is involved. If you want a better showcasing of it check out lemurs youtube. It is overperforming. Remove the weapon damage and make one max stamina buff changed to max magicka. I have other clips where I'm tanking 20+ and am able to survive to kill the squishies, until i get bursted during a delayed fear cc break. I didn't upload those due to my UI potentially revealing some other key parts of lemurs build which i wont do. Trust me though, Blackrose is definitely overperforming. If not its cool, I'll just keep running it and probably finding more ways to break the game even more.
@Erock25 Btw here you go. Something just to start. I'll get some clips tanking 20+ and killing the squishes spamming beam from the back now that I fixed some things.
https://youtu.be/SLZApazsO7k?t=5m32s 0 -
Xinthisis✭✭✭✭Lemur Video of the build. He plays it much better than I do. Not saying its all blackrose, but blackrose is definitely a big deal with its effectiveness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaKTz3hShuw 0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lemur Video of the build. He plays it much better than I do. Not saying its all blackrose, but blackrose is definitely a big deal with its effectiveness.
To know whether it is definitely a big deal or not, you would need to have a comparative video that keeps everything the same except missing the black rose 5-piece bonus.
Until you do that, you can never be sure whether the "big deal" is the 260 regen and 150 damage bonus of BR or something else. Personally, i am fairly sure it is the latter. Because 260 regen is nothing, and 150 damage is one jewelry enchant.
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Xinthisis✭✭✭✭Lemur Video of the build. He plays it much better than I do. Not saying its all blackrose, but blackrose is definitely a big deal with its effectiveness.
To know whether it is definitely a big deal or not, you would need to have a comparative video that keeps everything the same except missing the black rose 5-piece bonus.
Until you do that, you can never be sure whether the "big deal" is the 260 regen and 150 damage bonus of BR or something else. Personally, i am fairly sure it is the latter. Because 260 regen is nothing, and 150 damage is one jewelry enchant.
Then you obviously don't understand how min maxing and the scaling in this game works. Like I said, I only ask for the change with the mindset of balance. I'll still run lemurs build and people can continue to wonder how and why someone can tank 20+ and sustain while killing people. Good luck out there.1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lemur Video of the build. He plays it much better than I do. Not saying its all blackrose, but blackrose is definitely a big deal with its effectiveness.
To know whether it is definitely a big deal or not, you would need to have a comparative video that keeps everything the same except missing the black rose 5-piece bonus.
Until you do that, you can never be sure whether the "big deal" is the 260 regen and 150 damage bonus of BR or something else. Personally, i am fairly sure it is the latter. Because 260 regen is nothing, and 150 damage is one jewelry enchant.
Then you obviously don't understand how min maxing and the scaling in this game works. Like I said, I only ask for the change with the mindset of balance. I'll still run lemurs build and people can continue to wonder how and why someone can tank 20+ and sustain while killing people. Good luck out there.
Just for illustration, my magicka DK's cost of blocking (with shield) is exactly 1200. If i equipped black rose, in a 30 second fight, it would allow me whole 3 extra blocks.
Black rose is not a big deal for tanking 20+, equipping block cost reduction enchants, traits, skills and champ passives is. Combined with the overpowered healing of vigor, of course, and the fact that on a 40K stamina DK build every cast of igneous shield pays the stamina cost of the next vigor.Edited by Sharee on September 26, 2016 10:41AM3 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Try telling that to Kodi and the rest of the stamsorcs. Does it provide transparent burst? Not necessarily. But it synergizes so well with Vildreth and Vipers. Yes it is a problem.Malibulove wrote: »Some huge misconceptions in this thread. Black Rose is very much an Outlast build more than a Burst build, it provides nothing to help you 100>0 somebody right out the gate, and everything to help you empty their stamina/magicka while retaining your own.
Nobody uses Black Rose as a "DPS 1-shot build", you lose a sizable amount of Stamina, Weapon Damage, and Crit Rating by being in Heavy Armor. Real gankbuilds are all using Medium armor 5-pieces in conjunction with Viper's Sting. The Max Stamina and Weapon Damage set bonuses are just to give the set some semblance of Stats, Compared to NMG, Eternal Hunt, Shield Breaker, Marksman, etc.. the passive stats are nothing.
The benefit Black Rose provides is giving characters the resources to live long enough while being mobile, but the trade-off has always been the loss of DPS. Look at any Heavy vs Medium 2H builds, the players running Black Rose will always have lower Weapon Damage, Regeneration, Crit, and Max Stamina.
Not to say you can't kill people with Black Rose, far from it, but there's a clear trade-off. If I equipped Black Rose on my StamSorc I would lose 700~ Weapon damage right out the gate, but then if I equipped Black Rose it wouldn't be because I needed more DPS it would be because I needed more sustain/survivability.
STAM IS COMPLETELY IMBALANCED.
We are just pawns for the powers that be. How do players not see it? They make so mich money from meta chasers. In a couple updates they will switch back to Mag as the meta. And make money all over again.
We are all just lemmingsEdited by Darnathian on September 26, 2016 12:21PM1 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Waffennacht Just something to start, if it doesn't start at 5:32 skip to it if you like. I've only just started using the build but its obvious that Blackrose is involved. If you want a better showcasing of it check out lemurs youtube. It is overperforming. Remove the weapon damage and make one max stamina buff changed to max magicka. I have other clips where I'm tanking 20+ and am able to survive to kill the squishies, until i get bursted during a delayed fear cc break. I didn't upload those due to my UI potentially revealing some other key parts of lemurs build which i wont do. Trust me though, Blackrose is definitely overperforming. If not its cool, I'll just keep running it and probably finding more ways to break the game even more.
@Erock25 Btw here you go. Something just to start. I'll get some clips tanking 20+ and killing the squishes spamming beam from the back now that I fixed some things.https://youtu.be/SLZApazsO7k?t=5m32s
I'm sure you'll be able to get better clips eventually, but there was nothing that stands out in that video. There are literally 1000's of videos where someone not wearing blackrose does something more impressive. I know blackrose is strong, but the math and comparing to other sets proves that it isn't so strong that it deserves a nerf. What happened was that the pvp meta was to build your character so that you could kill an opponent in one rotation of skills. People reacted to this shifting meta and started wearing heavy armor and stacking a bit more defense. Of course the "kill you in one rotation crowd" is going to be upset and try and nerf one of the best sets that people use that can combat their play style.Edited by Erock25 on September 26, 2016 2:00PMYou earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points4 -
SwaminoNowlino✭✭✭✭✭Just an FYI, after the AMA it is revealed that Black Rose is getting Jewelry in One TamrielOf course without multiple pieces of heavy who cares but this will make people freak out . Could combine it with imperial physique alsoEdited by SwaminoNowlino on September 26, 2016 3:04PMXbox NA : CP 160 StamPlar, MagNB, MagSorc, StamSorc, StamDK, StamNB, Level 10 MagDK & MagPlar, StamWarden, MagWarden
"We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome." - The Balance Lord Wrobel
- And now it sure does, better learn how to bash folks!
I get by with a little help from logic.0 -
Xinthisis✭✭✭✭@Waffennacht Just something to start, if it doesn't start at 5:32 skip to it if you like. I've only just started using the build but its obvious that Blackrose is involved. If you want a better showcasing of it check out lemurs youtube. It is overperforming. Remove the weapon damage and make one max stamina buff changed to max magicka. I have other clips where I'm tanking 20+ and am able to survive to kill the squishies, until i get bursted during a delayed fear cc break. I didn't upload those due to my UI potentially revealing some other key parts of lemurs build which i wont do. Trust me though, Blackrose is definitely overperforming. If not its cool, I'll just keep running it and probably finding more ways to break the game even more.
@Erock25 Btw here you go. Something just to start. I'll get some clips tanking 20+ and killing the squishes spamming beam from the back now that I fixed some things.https://youtu.be/SLZApazsO7k?t=5m32s
I'm sure you'll be able to get better clips eventually, but there was nothing that stands out in that video. There are literally 1000's of videos where someone not wearing blackrose does something more impressive. I know blackrose is strong, but the math and comparing to other sets proves that it isn't so strong that it deserves a nerf. What happened was that the pvp meta was to build your character so that you could kill an opponent in one rotation of skills. People reacted to this shifting meta and started wearing heavy armor and stacking a bit more defense. Of course the "kill you in one rotation crowd" is going to be upset and try and nerf one of the best sets that people use that can combat their play style.
Yeah I have some clips with tanking 20+ and leaping to burst squishies in the back but couldn't upload it due to the UI revealing too much about the build. The thing is people will still die in one rotation regardless of armor, until next patch with the 5 black rose, 5 reactive, 2 monster helm meta. It's coming, get ready. The people defending imbalance are why the game has been allowed to get where it is today. We need to have forum posts like this one on every other individual imbalance in game. Fix one thing at a time. You know, like those "small incremental changes" ZOS promises us.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SoB! I said NO videos of killin low levels.
198 is too low
In that vid I saw ONE 531 CP opponent that was running, something not offensive. I see a vid of a DK tanking low levels and maybe one higher level.
Show me 531 NBs etc, then you might have something. But killing a lvl 198is meaningless2 -
wylievc✭✭✭Seems that this thread is biased towards people salty about not being able to glass cannon every opponent as a tactic; different builds have different counters that is balance. Why cant there be a viable set that makes playing with a sustainable build fun? Lots of exaggeration going on in this thread.
Black Rose is fine.0 -
Xinthisis✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »SoB! I said NO videos of killin low levels.
198 is too low
In that vid I saw ONE 531 CP opponent that was running, something not offensive. I see a vid of a DK tanking low levels and maybe one higher level.
Show me 531 NBs etc, then you might have something. But killing a lvl 198is meaningless
Did you watch Lemurs video? He has a much better display of the build, I literally just got those clips after I changed my UI. I have clips shadowplayed of tanking 20+ and killing squishes in the back. It is what it is man, now that I have most of everything I need on the build I'll cut a vid up of just tanking and spanking. Probably be out in a day or so.0 -
Xinthisis✭✭✭✭Seems that this thread is biased towards people salty about not being able to glass cannon every opponent as a tactic; different builds have different counters that is balance. Why cant there be a viable set that makes playing with a sustainable build fun? Lots of exaggeration going on in this thread.
Black Rose is fine.
Except people are using black rose and still insta killing players... because its overperforming... I use Blackrose btw, and thats why I know how strong it is. If you need more proof of how strong blackrose is check out Kodipvp on twitch.
Heck, hop in his stream and ask him if he thinks Blackrose is too strong. Don't just take my word for it, research.0 -
Xinthisis✭✭✭✭@Erock25 @Waffennacht @wylievc Heres some more Blackrose Gameplay from a player that is much better than I am. Hop in Kodi,Jules, Sypher, Blobs, or literally any knowledgeable pvp stream sometime and just ask them yourself. I'm not asking to nerf the set to oblivion. I'm asking to balance it. Keep the sustain, but take away the weapon damage and spell damage and change one stam buff to magicka. It wont render the set useless. It will just make it not be the automatic go to set for every stam build. (Outside of gankblades)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qNZAd5U3pM Edited by Xinthisis on September 26, 2016 6:32PM0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Before i watch the vid, you do realize that the set, when it came out, didn't have any damg bonus? It was so bad that they had to do something to make it viable.
@Xinthisis your idea has been done and it made the set completely unplayable
Edit: in that video his heavy attack returns about x4 or more the stam than does the set proc. I don't see anything that would be done better than using hundling, or night mother's (esp after buff night mother's is gonna get)
Edit:: OMFG can you stop putting videos of low levels getting rekt?! the vast majority of both videos is of undercaps getting killed. I have video of Morkuldin magicka pet build that would look just as good if I only show 1vX against 231 345 etc levels. With one or maybe two mediocre 531s.Edited by Waffennacht on September 26, 2016 6:53PM0 -
wylievc✭✭✭Didn't you set out to prove that anyone can grab BR and win? You provided videos of you doing so, yet as others pointed out, they weren't anything too special. Now you are pointing to known streamers to showcase the overpowered nature of the set? I don't understand. Of course these streamers who have extreme practice and lots of skill can make the set look overpowered. I thought the point was to show that anyone who uses BR is overpowered?1
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Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭@Waffennacht Just something to start, if it doesn't start at 5:32 skip to it if you like. I've only just started using the build but its obvious that Blackrose is involved. If you want a better showcasing of it check out lemurs youtube. It is overperforming. Remove the weapon damage and make one max stamina buff changed to max magicka. I have other clips where I'm tanking 20+ and am able to survive to kill the squishies, until i get bursted during a delayed fear cc break. I didn't upload those due to my UI potentially revealing some other key parts of lemurs build which i wont do. Trust me though, Blackrose is definitely overperforming. If not its cool, I'll just keep running it and probably finding more ways to break the game even more.
@Erock25 Btw here you go. Something just to start. I'll get some clips tanking 20+ and killing the squishes spamming beam from the back now that I fixed some things.https://youtu.be/SLZApazsO7k?t=5m32s
Malbeth+mending+...nevermind, keep making points that have nothing to do with anything relevant to the discussion. Im sure that the extra regen helped.1 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Erock25 @Waffennacht @wylievc Heres some more Blackrose Gameplay from a player that is much better than I am. Hop in Kodi,Jules, Sypher, Blobs, or literally any knowledgeable pvp stream sometime and just ask them yourself. I'm not asking to nerf the set to oblivion. I'm asking to balance it. Keep the sustain, but take away the weapon damage and spell damage and change one stam buff to magicka. It wont render the set useless. It will just make it not be the automatic go to set for every stam build. (Outside of gankblades)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qNZAd5U3pM
So a non-nerfed into oblivion set in your opinion is.....
2piece : HP
3piece : Stam
4piece : Mag
5piece : ~260 stam/mag regen while taking dmg
Sorry Xinthisis, but that is absolutely nerfed into oblivion.
It's also funny the video you posted was of someone using Velidreth. I'm sure all of those 8k+ hoarvor explosion dmg I saw had nothing to do with that clip.Edited by Erock25 on September 26, 2016 8:18PMYou earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points2 -
Xinthisis✭✭✭✭@Erock25 @Waffennacht @wylievc Heres some more Blackrose Gameplay from a player that is much better than I am. Hop in Kodi,Jules, Sypher, Blobs, or literally any knowledgeable pvp stream sometime and just ask them yourself. I'm not asking to nerf the set to oblivion. I'm asking to balance it. Keep the sustain, but take away the weapon damage and spell damage and change one stam buff to magicka. It wont render the set useless. It will just make it not be the automatic go to set for every stam build. (Outside of gankblades)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qNZAd5U3pM
So a non-nerfed into oblivion set in your opinion is.....
2piece : HP
3piece : Stam
4piece : Mag
5piece : ~260 stam/mag regen while taking dmg
Sorry Xinthisis, but that is absolutely nerfed into oblivion.
It's also funny the video you posted was of someone using Velidreth. I'm sure all of those 8k+ hoarvor explosion dmg I saw had nothing to do with that clip.
Like I said, dont take my word for it. Go and ask literally any knowledgeable pvp player if Blackrose is overperforming. I link these other players because they all agree that it is. While using it to do the things people are trying to say isn't happening because of the heavy armor meta. The reason people are running blackrose is because it literally gives everything, with little sacrifice. Damage, sustain, and tankiness. Loss of some movement speed while sprinting, and dodgeroll cost reduction. Which is negligible in the grand scheme of things.
PVP tanks will still use it to help sustain, and hybrid builds next patch will probably use it pair with pelenials. Every sworhow in the actual *** did you fit so many potatoes into one thread?You get Magicka back while blocking but not stamina. Stamina PvP heavy armor builds need this to sustain.Rage_Killin wrote: »Black rose is fine.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Ok by me .
Well, magicka got heavy armor DPS builds.Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Black rose is fine.What's so wrong with people using a Heavy Armour set for DPS? Personally I think it's ok as it is.It's fine.I have no problem with black rose.Shadesofkin wrote: »Don't screw with Black RoseBlack Rose is fine.No its not over performing.If you want to use BR use it... it will not make you any better. It may take a player at my level nine seconds to kill you instead of three seconds I for one am totally ok with that.It works fine.ArtOfShred wrote: »Doesn't really seem too out of line to me.Blackrose is finedavidautry_ESO wrote: »Do not change Black Rose.Black Rose is fine as is. You're comparing apples to oranges here.I think a better option would be to buff light and medium armor sustain and damage output.
Blackrose and heavy armor in general are fineNB's QQing about Black Rose *rolls eyes*. Black Rose is fine.Seems like a QQ post. I have been playing with BR set for quite sometime now, its a great dueling set and thats it.Black rose is fineSwaminoNowlino wrote: »As for the whole magicka vs stamina part, isn't desert rose the magicka equivalent of black rose?Wreuntzylla wrote: »attack someone else while the black rose wearer depletes their resources.Black rose is fineWaffennacht wrote: »I really think black rose is good, but in no way OPMalakithAlamahdi wrote: »People who think that black rose or heavy armor is OP just don't know how to fight them.MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »Dps sets arent really that good in HA ...Especially for magicka classes since the weapons used with heavy armor only have stamina skillsBlack rose is fine. It's only dangerous if you continually attack the user gifting them free resources.HA players have less mobility, which equates to less alliance points when they are ignored.it caters to mag and stam builds.Black Rose is fine.
You know what might fix this?
Literally lmfao.1