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Dealing with heal debuff

Erock25
Erock25
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What are my options as a heavy armor stam sorc for overcoming heal debuffs (mostly incap strike)? I tried efficient purge and it just cost too much to use with any sort of frequency and it seems heal debuffs are everywhere. The usual scenario where I've been noticing it is a gankblade landing Snipe and Ambush at the same time followed by a canceled Incap strike. Right there I go from 30k to 10k health in heavy armor with 2400 crit resist. My next move is usually dodge rolling with a potion and vigor, but vigor is ticking for only 600hp and I'm basically stuck in a losing battle. I don't have access to Major Mending to counteract the heal debuff. What should I do in this situation? Vitality Pot?
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  • susmitds
    susmitds
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    Uum, going from 30k to 10k is not possible with the scenario you mentioned. Typically you will get Major+Minor Fracture from that combo+Surprise Attack, which takes away only 6k.
  • Minno
    Minno
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    susmitds wrote: »
    Uum, going from 30k to 10k is not possible with the scenario you mentioned. Typically you will get Major+Minor Fracture from that combo+Surprise Attack, which takes away only 6k.

    And typically at most youll only be able to have 17k armor removed from all sources (major breach, minor breach, sharpened, CP, mace,)
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
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  • Erock25
    Erock25
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    susmitds wrote: »
    Uum, going from 30k to 10k is not possible with the scenario you mentioned. Typically you will get Major+Minor Fracture from that combo+Surprise Attack, which takes away only 6k.
    Erock25 wrote: »
    Right there I go from 30k to 10k health

    You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
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  • BuggeX
    BuggeX
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    biggest Problem with healdebuff is that there isnt a MAJOR Vitaly buff so open like a MAJOR Defile (reverbating bash)
    only Vitaly Buffs aviable are Classskills, and this are minor
    #makemagickadkgreataigan
    #givemeaexecute
    #ineedheal
    #betterhotfixgrindspots
  • Magus
    Magus
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    Yes there are actually major vitality potions now. Slot malubeth and be a cheeser because they are a cheeser gankblade?

    And yes with the stealth modifier, NBs can do a snipe, heavy attack, ambush and have them land at the same time and then incap strike and take you from 30k to 10k very easily, effortlessly even. There's a few extra things they could throw in there to kill you without having a chance to react but no need to mention what those are.

    Other options, run radiant magelight to cut down 50% of that cheeseblade damage from stealth. If you want to be a weirdo, you can slot barrier and pop that as your ultimate. Streak through them to cc them, dark deal around. Hurricane to pop them out of stealth once you have them on the defensive. Sword and board, block cast heals, yell TEMPLAR HEAL ME on TS. Don't go out alone because the night is dark and full of terrors?
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  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    Why is it that you have to be able to counter it? All builds/classes can´t counter everything. All builds has their cons/pros
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  • KenaPKK
    KenaPKK
    Class Representative
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Why is it that you have to be able to counter it? All builds/classes can´t counter everything. All builds has their cons/pros

    Templar is the only class with a purge right now. Efficient purge is beyond bad for magicka, much less stamina..
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  • Magus
    Magus
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    KenaPKK wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Why is it that you have to be able to counter it? All builds/classes can´t counter everything. All builds has their cons/pros

    Templar is the only class with a purge right now. Efficient purge is beyond bad for magicka, much less stamina..

    Shh, if they touch ritual I'm rage quitting.
    Duraeon / Maoh
    Former Emperor of Haderus, Trueflame, and Azura's Star
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  • KenaPKK
    KenaPKK
    Class Representative
    Magus wrote: »
    KenaPKK wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Why is it that you have to be able to counter it? All builds/classes can´t counter everything. All builds has their cons/pros

    Templar is the only class with a purge right now. Efficient purge is beyond bad for magicka, much less stamina..

    Shh, if they touch ritual I'm rage quitting.

    Ritual needs to like...remove 1 debuff each second for 5 seconds after casting or something.

    And other classes need access to some kind of reliable purge.

    Like for real.
    Edited by KenaPKK on August 31, 2016 9:13PM
    Kena
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  • Xsorus
    Xsorus
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    Erock25 wrote: »
    What are my options as a heavy armor stam sorc for overcoming heal debuffs (mostly incap strike)? I tried efficient purge and it just cost too much to use with any sort of frequency and it seems heal debuffs are everywhere. The usual scenario where I've been noticing it is a gankblade landing Snipe and Ambush at the same time followed by a canceled Incap strike. Right there I go from 30k to 10k health in heavy armor with 2400 crit resist. My next move is usually dodge rolling with a potion and vigor, but vigor is ticking for only 600hp and I'm basically stuck in a losing battle. I don't have access to Major Mending to counteract the heal debuff. What should I do in this situation? Vitality Pot?

    I have it under good authority that Heal Debuffs will not do much to Vigor *grin*

  • Magus
    Magus
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    KenaPKK wrote: »
    Magus wrote: »
    KenaPKK wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Why is it that you have to be able to counter it? All builds/classes can´t counter everything. All builds has their cons/pros

    Templar is the only class with a purge right now. Efficient purge is beyond bad for magicka, much less stamina..

    Shh, if they touch ritual I'm rage quitting.

    Ritual needs to like...remove 1 debuff each second for 5 seconds after casting or something.

    And other classes need access to some kind of reliable purge.

    Like for real.

    Don't you dare.

    Alliance war purge needs a buff, either in effects removed or cost reduced. Overall, the game needs less debuffs.
    Duraeon / Maoh
    Former Emperor of Haderus, Trueflame, and Azura's Star
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  • Magus
    Magus
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    Side note, don't know why I haven't seen any health regens build running around lately. They are immune to major defile.
    Duraeon / Maoh
    Former Emperor of Haderus, Trueflame, and Azura's Star
    PC/NA
  • Minno
    Minno
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    Magus wrote: »
    KenaPKK wrote: »
    Magus wrote: »
    KenaPKK wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Why is it that you have to be able to counter it? All builds/classes can´t counter everything. All builds has their cons/pros

    Templar is the only class with a purge right now. Efficient purge is beyond bad for magicka, much less stamina..

    Shh, if they touch ritual I'm rage quitting.

    Ritual needs to like...remove 1 debuff each second for 5 seconds after casting or something.

    And other classes need access to some kind of reliable purge.

    Like for real.

    Don't you dare.

    Alliance war purge needs a buff, either in effects removed or cost reduced. Overall, the game needs less debuffs.

    I'd agree on this. Though I thought NB had a morph of cloak that removed the dmg from dots?

    Either way, if all classes had access to a cheap purge then why have DOTS? Or debuffs?

    It's tough, but purge is both a group spell and solo spell. It makes templar unique. Efficient purge sadly should have it's cost still.

    They do need to change that bug where purge was hitting the same 6 people and adjust how purifying ritual 's synergy is used.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
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  • Magus
    Magus
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    Minno wrote: »
    Magus wrote: »
    KenaPKK wrote: »
    Magus wrote: »
    KenaPKK wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Why is it that you have to be able to counter it? All builds/classes can´t counter everything. All builds has their cons/pros

    Templar is the only class with a purge right now. Efficient purge is beyond bad for magicka, much less stamina..

    Shh, if they touch ritual I'm rage quitting.

    Ritual needs to like...remove 1 debuff each second for 5 seconds after casting or something.

    And other classes need access to some kind of reliable purge.

    Like for real.

    Don't you dare.

    Alliance war purge needs a buff, either in effects removed or cost reduced. Overall, the game needs less debuffs.

    I'd agree on this. Though I thought NB had a morph of cloak that removed the dmg from dots?

    Either way, if all classes had access to a cheap purge then why have DOTS? Or debuffs?

    It's tough, but purge is both a group spell and solo spell. It makes templar unique. Efficient purge sadly should have it's cost still.

    They do need to change that bug where purge was hitting the same 6 people and adjust how purifying ritual 's synergy is used.

    They nerfed cloak so it only suppresses DoTs and doesn't remove them anymore.

    Because you still need to give up a slot on your limited to bar to use it and still need to manage resources to cast it counter without using up all your magicka on just purges.

    I think they fixed the first 6 on purge bug and they are working on doing something with the ritual synergy is the rumor.
    Duraeon / Maoh
    Former Emperor of Haderus, Trueflame, and Azura's Star
    PC/NA
  • Minno
    Minno
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    Magus wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    Magus wrote: »
    KenaPKK wrote: »
    Magus wrote: »
    KenaPKK wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Why is it that you have to be able to counter it? All builds/classes can´t counter everything. All builds has their cons/pros

    Templar is the only class with a purge right now. Efficient purge is beyond bad for magicka, much less stamina..

    Shh, if they touch ritual I'm rage quitting.

    Ritual needs to like...remove 1 debuff each second for 5 seconds after casting or something.

    And other classes need access to some kind of reliable purge.

    Like for real.

    Don't you dare.

    Alliance war purge needs a buff, either in effects removed or cost reduced. Overall, the game needs less debuffs.

    I'd agree on this. Though I thought NB had a morph of cloak that removed the dmg from dots?

    Either way, if all classes had access to a cheap purge then why have DOTS? Or debuffs?

    It's tough, but purge is both a group spell and solo spell. It makes templar unique. Efficient purge sadly should have it's cost still.

    They do need to change that bug where purge was hitting the same 6 people and adjust how purifying ritual 's synergy is used.

    They nerfed cloak so it only suppresses DoTs and doesn't remove them anymore.

    Because you still need to give up a slot on your limited to bar to use it and still need to manage resources to cast it counter without using up all your magicka on just purges.

    I think they fixed the first 6 on purge bug and they are working on doing something with the ritual synergy is the rumor.

    Correct it only suppresses it.

    By that action, it's clear ZOS intends Templars have the ability to instantly remove debuffs/dots.

    Should others classes receive a way to suppress dots like the nb?
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
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    - Filthy Casual
  • Magus
    Magus
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    Minno wrote: »
    Magus wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    Magus wrote: »
    KenaPKK wrote: »
    Magus wrote: »
    KenaPKK wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Why is it that you have to be able to counter it? All builds/classes can´t counter everything. All builds has their cons/pros

    Templar is the only class with a purge right now. Efficient purge is beyond bad for magicka, much less stamina..

    Shh, if they touch ritual I'm rage quitting.

    Ritual needs to like...remove 1 debuff each second for 5 seconds after casting or something.

    And other classes need access to some kind of reliable purge.

    Like for real.

    Don't you dare.

    Alliance war purge needs a buff, either in effects removed or cost reduced. Overall, the game needs less debuffs.

    I'd agree on this. Though I thought NB had a morph of cloak that removed the dmg from dots?

    Either way, if all classes had access to a cheap purge then why have DOTS? Or debuffs?

    It's tough, but purge is both a group spell and solo spell. It makes templar unique. Efficient purge sadly should have it's cost still.

    They do need to change that bug where purge was hitting the same 6 people and adjust how purifying ritual 's synergy is used.

    They nerfed cloak so it only suppresses DoTs and doesn't remove them anymore.

    Because you still need to give up a slot on your limited to bar to use it and still need to manage resources to cast it counter without using up all your magicka on just purges.

    I think they fixed the first 6 on purge bug and they are working on doing something with the ritual synergy is the rumor.

    Correct it only suppresses it.

    By that action, it's clear ZOS intends Templars have the ability to instantly remove debuffs/dots.

    Should others classes receive a way to suppress dots like the nb?

    DoTs are fine as is, in this trash meta it's the poisons and all the other debuffs that are awful. Other magicka classes can use a damage shield to eat up the DoT without an issue. Stamina builds can just cast vigor and get 2-3k ticks without issue - assuming no major defile lol
    Duraeon / Maoh
    Former Emperor of Haderus, Trueflame, and Azura's Star
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  • Minno
    Minno
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    Magus wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    Magus wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    Magus wrote: »
    KenaPKK wrote: »
    Magus wrote: »
    KenaPKK wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Why is it that you have to be able to counter it? All builds/classes can´t counter everything. All builds has their cons/pros

    Templar is the only class with a purge right now. Efficient purge is beyond bad for magicka, much less stamina..

    Shh, if they touch ritual I'm rage quitting.

    Ritual needs to like...remove 1 debuff each second for 5 seconds after casting or something.

    And other classes need access to some kind of reliable purge.

    Like for real.

    Don't you dare.

    Alliance war purge needs a buff, either in effects removed or cost reduced. Overall, the game needs less debuffs.

    I'd agree on this. Though I thought NB had a morph of cloak that removed the dmg from dots?

    Either way, if all classes had access to a cheap purge then why have DOTS? Or debuffs?

    It's tough, but purge is both a group spell and solo spell. It makes templar unique. Efficient purge sadly should have it's cost still.

    They do need to change that bug where purge was hitting the same 6 people and adjust how purifying ritual 's synergy is used.

    They nerfed cloak so it only suppresses DoTs and doesn't remove them anymore.

    Because you still need to give up a slot on your limited to bar to use it and still need to manage resources to cast it counter without using up all your magicka on just purges.

    I think they fixed the first 6 on purge bug and they are working on doing something with the ritual synergy is the rumor.

    Correct it only suppresses it.

    By that action, it's clear ZOS intends Templars have the ability to instantly remove debuffs/dots.

    Should others classes receive a way to suppress dots like the nb?

    DoTs are fine as is, in this trash meta it's the poisons and all the other debuffs that are awful. Other magicka classes can use a damage shield to eat up the DoT without an issue. Stamina builds can just cast vigor and get 2-3k ticks without issue - assuming no major defile lol

    Fair answer lol. There are counters to DOTs then.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Soris
    Soris
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    KenaPKK wrote: »
    Magus wrote: »
    KenaPKK wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Why is it that you have to be able to counter it? All builds/classes can´t counter everything. All builds has their cons/pros

    Templar is the only class with a purge right now. Efficient purge is beyond bad for magicka, much less stamina..

    Shh, if they touch ritual I'm rage quitting.

    Ritual needs to like...remove 1 debuff each second for 5 seconds after casting or something.

    And other classes need access to some kind of reliable purge.

    Like for real.

    Aaand this is now nerf templar thread.

    Ritual have been working in the same way for over 2 years. It's identical to templar and this holy knight archetype. Like nbs have their cloak.

    If all classes should be able to do the same thing, then why we have classes in first place?

    But if that so, my templar would very much like to have teleport image and cloak.
    Welkynd [Templar/AD/EU]
  • Elara_Northwind
    Elara_Northwind
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    KenaPKK wrote: »
    Magus wrote: »
    KenaPKK wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Why is it that you have to be able to counter it? All builds/classes can´t counter everything. All builds has their cons/pros

    Templar is the only class with a purge right now. Efficient purge is beyond bad for magicka, much less stamina..

    Shh, if they touch ritual I'm rage quitting.

    Ritual needs to like...remove 1 debuff each second for 5 seconds after casting or something.

    And other classes need access to some kind of reliable purge.

    Like for real.

    Ok, in this case, flappy flappy wings must only reflect 1 thing, same as the 1h and shield ability, and sorcerer streak and shield must have a cool down and nb cloak must be nerfed to the ground.... Oh, most of these were nerfed already as well as templar heals. I forgot for a moment that stamina skills were the ones that were OP, oops... :grimace:
    Templar is truly a fearless knight, and secure on every side,
    for his soul is protected by the armor of faith,
    just as his body is protected by the armor of steel.
    He is thus doubly armed and need fear neither demons nor men.
    AD 1135 by Bernard de Clairvax

    Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/c/ElaraNorthwind
  • Erock25
    Erock25
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    Xsorus wrote: »
    Erock25 wrote: »
    What are my options as a heavy armor stam sorc for overcoming heal debuffs (mostly incap strike)? I tried efficient purge and it just cost too much to use with any sort of frequency and it seems heal debuffs are everywhere. The usual scenario where I've been noticing it is a gankblade landing Snipe and Ambush at the same time followed by a canceled Incap strike. Right there I go from 30k to 10k health in heavy armor with 2400 crit resist. My next move is usually dodge rolling with a potion and vigor, but vigor is ticking for only 600hp and I'm basically stuck in a losing battle. I don't have access to Major Mending to counteract the heal debuff. What should I do in this situation? Vitality Pot?

    I have it under good authority that Heal Debuffs will not do much to Vigor *grin*

    Well they're authoritatively wrong because I keep seeing my Vigor tick for 600.
    Edited by Erock25 on September 1, 2016 12:08AM
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  • KenaPKK
    KenaPKK
    Class Representative
    Oh boy I love nerf Templar threads. I agree. Remove the purge from ritual, buff beam, and delete magicka DKs from the game.
    Kena
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  • Erock25
    Erock25
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    KenaPKK wrote: »
    Oh boy I love nerf Templar threads. I agree. Remove the purge from ritual, buff beam, and delete magicka DKs from the game.

    It should be a buff purge thread or maybe zos should add a purging effect to alchemy.
    You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
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  • Brutusmax1mus
    Brutusmax1mus
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    Dodge roll, vigor, cast hurricane, rally. Then you're feared, break, stun them and start your dps weaves. By this time hurricane has crit twice or more and you've got at least 6k back from that . If you're dw do your light attack healing slash(forgot the name), light attack blood craze for more healing and crit surge procs.

    Dodgerolling or blocking as soon as they ambush will ruin that combo most of the time as many are just mashing incap asap.

    Honestly i like immovability pots better than vitality. Stopping that initial fear eats their time to burst your down and didn't give them the damage bonus.

    The key is to sustain and put them on the defensive. You'll eat through them if you can sustain. With crit surge, slashes, blood craze you can stay on the offensive for a very long time.

    Sets can help too. Eternal hunt will work wonders to buy you time. A dodge roll with eternal hunt can give you time for 2 dark deals well.
  • Xsorus
    Xsorus
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    Erock25 wrote: »
    Xsorus wrote: »
    Erock25 wrote: »
    What are my options as a heavy armor stam sorc for overcoming heal debuffs (mostly incap strike)? I tried efficient purge and it just cost too much to use with any sort of frequency and it seems heal debuffs are everywhere. The usual scenario where I've been noticing it is a gankblade landing Snipe and Ambush at the same time followed by a canceled Incap strike. Right there I go from 30k to 10k health in heavy armor with 2400 crit resist. My next move is usually dodge rolling with a potion and vigor, but vigor is ticking for only 600hp and I'm basically stuck in a losing battle. I don't have access to Major Mending to counteract the heal debuff. What should I do in this situation? Vitality Pot?

    I have it under good authority that Heal Debuffs will not do much to Vigor *grin*

    Well they're authoritatively wrong because I keep seeing my Vigor tick for 600.

    I don't know; they were all pretty convinced that Healing Debuffs were useless against Vigor.
  • Forestd16b14_ESO
    Forestd16b14_ESO
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    susmitds wrote: »
    Uum, going from 30k to 10k is not possible with the scenario you mentioned. Typically you will get Major+Minor Fracture from that combo+Surprise Attack, which takes away only 6k.

    Actually not really cause most PvP players know that crit is becomeing useless in PvP cause of impen so they switch to penetration and armor de-buffs. Factoring all that can turn a 33K resistance mitigation caped tank into a 11K-9K resistance tank greatly increasing the damage they received and of course pair that with the stupidly high damage a player can get yea that 10-20K attack happens alot I know I run into those builds alot in PvP.
    "A sword wields no strength unless the hand that holds it has courage."
    "It's the warrior not the weapon that decides the battle ."
    #StopOneTamriel
  • juhasman
    juhasman
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    Erock25 wrote: »
    What are my options as a heavy armor stam sorc for overcoming heal debuffs (mostly incap strike)? I tried efficient purge and it just cost too much to use with any sort of frequency and it seems heal debuffs are everywhere. The usual scenario where I've been noticing it is a gankblade landing Snipe and Ambush at the same time followed by a canceled Incap strike. Right there I go from 30k to 10k health in heavy armor with 2400 crit resist. My next move is usually dodge rolling with a potion and vigor, but vigor is ticking for only 600hp and I'm basically stuck in a losing battle. I don't have access to Major Mending to counteract the heal debuff. What should I do in this situation? Vitality Pot?

    I usually not roll dodging after break free. When I am running heavy armor stam sorc after breaking free I hold block then I use reverb bash or dawnbreaker of smithing on gankblade and healing myself with vigor+rally and potion when he is in stun and needs to break it. Then eventually i am dodging to buy additional time and i am ready to respond.
    Edited by juhasman on September 1, 2016 5:06AM
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  • IxSTALKERxI
    IxSTALKERxI
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    Best way to deal with healing debuff is to play in a group lol. It's difficult to deal with debuffs as a solo player unless you're a templar. Playing solo is not allowed! Everyone must be a zergling or die. :)
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  • Lokey0024
    Lokey0024
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    susmitds wrote: »
    Uum, going from 30k to 10k is not possible with the scenario you mentioned. Typically you will get Major+Minor Fracture from that combo+Surprise Attack, which takes away only 6k.

    Actually not really cause most PvP players know that crit is becomeing useless in PvP cause of impen so they switch to penetration and armor de-buffs. Factoring all that can turn a 33K resistance mitigation caped tank into a 11K-9K resistance tank greatly increasing the damage they received and of course pair that with the stupidly high damage a player can get yea that 10-20K attack happens alot I know I run into those builds alot in PvP.

    Wtf u mean switched to? You can get most of that without any changes required
  • Forestd16b14_ESO
    Forestd16b14_ESO
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    Lokey0024 wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    Uum, going from 30k to 10k is not possible with the scenario you mentioned. Typically you will get Major+Minor Fracture from that combo+Surprise Attack, which takes away only 6k.

    Actually not really cause most PvP players know that crit is becomeing useless in PvP cause of impen so they switch to penetration and armor de-buffs. Factoring all that can turn a 33K resistance mitigation caped tank into a 11K-9K resistance tank greatly increasing the damage they received and of course pair that with the stupidly high damage a player can get yea that 10-20K attack happens alot I know I run into those builds alot in PvP.

    Wtf u mean switched to? You can get most of that without any changes required

    Point being penetration is the new DPS burst meta cause it goes through mitigation instead of raw damage and crit damage becoming smaller from beating on mitigation. Doesn't help that for some odd reason the mitigation cap is still 50% at 33K resistance.
    "A sword wields no strength unless the hand that holds it has courage."
    "It's the warrior not the weapon that decides the battle ."
    #StopOneTamriel
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