How many would you be willing to buy before you gave up?
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Dromede✭✭✭✭None. Not into gambling - not into spending money on a cat in a bag.
Eso already has my money through Eso+ and direct purchases. I think that should be enough. Too bad it is not...Skye Cloude - Sorc DPS, Master Crafter. Main, the bestest
Lae Lenne - Templar Healer Trial grade.
Dromede - Stamina Nightblade, she's a newb and doesn't know what she's doing
V'oghatta - Stamplar pretending to be a tank
Ulville Thonvella - aspiring Fire Mage, be careful around her fire sticks!
Dromedaris - lost and not found. Named after a shoe, what else can you expect from her? A proper tank in her wildest dreams
Swims-Naked - too pretty to grind, too silly to quest.
Sun Flair - Dunmer Templar that can't spell for life. To bad she's too broke to afford a name change... Well, at least she's pretty...3 -
Stovahkiin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭None. Not into gambling - not into spending money on a cat in a bag.
Eso already has my money through Eso+ and direct purchases. I think that should be enough. Too bad it is not...
Nonsense, ZOS will never have enough money, not in their eyes at least. Especially because of how easy it is for them to get it from players.
Zeni guy #1: "So guys, apparently a LOT of people are really looking forward to the Breton hero outfit that we're releasing tomorrow"
Zeni guy #2: *spills coffee* "TOMORROW??? We haven't even started working on it!"
Zeni guy #1: "Eh it's okay, just throw some doodles together and it'll be fine, and when the player base complains about it, we'll just completely ignore them since we'll already have their money."
Zeni guy #3: "Okay sounds good, now I've also had an idea about gambling lockboxes..."Edited by Stovahkiin on August 24, 2016 4:36AMBeware the battle cattle, but don't *fear* the battle cattle!2 -
Wolfshead✭✭✭✭@noxayloxub17_ESO
As wrote in other post if is old thing in those box i wont buy for i buy those thing i want already and honest i hope the new thing the will add well be as is today then i will never buy those box if is onld thing fron crown store.If you find yourself alone, riding in green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled; for you are in Elysium, and you're already deadWhat we do in life, echoes in eternity0 -
SolarCat02✭✭✭✭✭VerboseQuips wrote: »I did not participate in the poll because I don't intend to buy any lootbox. As I said in another topic, the day they put collectibles behind a RNG wall is the day I cease collecting them.
I like the way you phrased your question, though, because it allows to illustrate a notion that is very relevant to this awful gambling: the price of giving up.
You ask how far we were willing to go before giving up. An element of answer is that the further we go, the more expensive it gets to give up.
Let's say they make an awesome mount exclusive to the RNG system and you really want this mount.
If you buy one lootbox, but don't get it and you give up, well, you wasted 400 Crowns. Not a very big deal.
Now let's say you buy 10 lootboxes in hope that one of them would contain it (which will still, probably, remain unlikely), but you don't get your awesome mount. Well, you invested 4000 Crowns in vain - the equivalent of a Sar-m'Athra. Should you give up then? Giving up then would be accepting you wasted the 4000 Crowns for nothing, which is the equivalent of throwing 4000 Crowns into the garbage bin, while continuing would cost only 400 more Crowns, for a chance that the total of 4400 Crowns would not be wasted. At this point, giving up does cost ten times as much as continuing, on a psychological level.
And this is the goal of these lootboxes: getting the players - maybe not all, but due to low likelihood of success, most of them - to the point where the psychological cost of giving up outweighs the actual cost of continuing. This is an infinite money sink, which is addictive by design, intrinsically dishonnest and predatory.
I will not condone that as a fan of Elder Scrolls. TES fans deserve better than that, and TES can, and should, do better.
The addictive side of gambling is really why this is so insidious. I am sure many here have heard the "tried and true" way to win money when betting? If it's double or nothing for winning and losing, you double your bet each time. So after 10 rounds starting with a $1 bet and doubling for each loss you may end up getting $1,024... But it cost you $1,023 to get there and your net gain is still just $1.
But for most people, the brain says you won over $1k. (Or over $500 if taking the time to remove the 10th bid of $512.)Edited by SolarCat02 on August 24, 2016 6:06AMWhy be normal when you can be better?
Elissandra Ravenwing, Magicka Dragonknight Healer
Lady Kalila, Stamina Templar DPS
Stands-in-Danger, Nightblade Saptank
Zalarah, Stamina Dragonknight DPS3 -
notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »Never touching those *** things. So, zero. The instant they hit live, I'm gone, and never coming back.
Why wait? Leave now because your stubbornness won't prevent their release0 -
Genomic✭✭✭✭✭Ive seen people lose their families and jobs over gambling. If they want people to buy these things just put them on the store. Their rng sucks in this game....except for dodge...
And these kind of tactics rely specifically on making lots of money from people with gambling problems, etc. It's gutter marketing.4 -
Stovahkiin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭notimetocare wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Never touching those *** things. So, zero. The instant they hit live, I'm gone, and never coming back.
Why wait? Leave now because your stubbornness won't prevent their release
Waay ahead of you, friend. And frankly, people like myself are not leaving because of our stubbornness, but more so because Zeni is too stubborn too actually, oh I don't know, listen to their player base sometimes? Not to mention that the game is just turning into a cash grab at this point, Zeni is not a charity (although they seem to think they are, given some of the prices of theirs), so they aren't getting any more money from me.Edited by Stovahkiin on August 24, 2016 5:01AMBeware the battle cattle, but don't *fear* the battle cattle!4 -
notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭Really it depends on how long i sub. Ill probably buy a few a month while subbed0 -
notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »
I'm not sure if you are aware of it yet, they are cosmetic only you know? They don't affect the gameplay at all! Like none. It would be a predatory model if they add p2w itens, which is not the case.
Even without p2w it's predatory because for some people playing barbie is the important thing in the game, not being best at PvE/PvP. And even if there's no malicious intent (it's not like they desire to hurt their players, after all), it's still negatively affecting the rest of us because we can no longer make informed purchasing decisions or plan ahead regarding what we want to buy.
Until now, we've been able to look at the data mining, the current cost of items in the Crown Store, and our expendable income, and decide how many Crowns to buy based on what we want and either how much it will probably cost (compared to current Crown Store offerings) or how much it does cost once it's already "hit the shelves". Now, though, there's way too much uncertainty because we'll never be able to tell what's going to hit the regular Crown Store for real purchases and what's going to be cordoned off to incentivize the gambling boxes. It completely changes the relationship we have with the service provider all because they want to start offering a gambling service that they have no business including.
By this logc, anything sold for money is predatory. I need to eat but they charge money for food...0 -
Stovahkiin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭notimetocare wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
I'm not sure if you are aware of it yet, they are cosmetic only you know? They don't affect the gameplay at all! Like none. It would be a predatory model if they add p2w itens, which is not the case.
Even without p2w it's predatory because for some people playing barbie is the important thing in the game, not being best at PvE/PvP. And even if there's no malicious intent (it's not like they desire to hurt their players, after all), it's still negatively affecting the rest of us because we can no longer make informed purchasing decisions or plan ahead regarding what we want to buy.
Until now, we've been able to look at the data mining, the current cost of items in the Crown Store, and our expendable income, and decide how many Crowns to buy based on what we want and either how much it will probably cost (compared to current Crown Store offerings) or how much it does cost once it's already "hit the shelves". Now, though, there's way too much uncertainty because we'll never be able to tell what's going to hit the regular Crown Store for real purchases and what's going to be cordoned off to incentivize the gambling boxes. It completely changes the relationship we have with the service provider all because they want to start offering a gambling service that they have no business including.
By this logc, anything sold for money is predatory. I need to eat but they charge money for food...
Perhaps I missed something, but I don't really see how the two are relevant. The guy was mostly just talking about being able to plan ahead for what you may want to buy. Recremen isn't complaining that it costs money.
Edited by Stovahkiin on August 24, 2016 5:05AMBeware the battle cattle, but don't *fear* the battle cattle!4 -
notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭The doomsayers are the nfintely amusng around these lockboxes when they know so little.0 -
Stovahkiin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭notimetocare wrote: »The doomsayers are the nfintely amusng around these lockboxes when they know so little.
The lockboxes themselves aren't the only problem, I would explain but I've already done so multiple times on different threads and so I'm not in the mood to keep repeating myself, so g'day sir/madam .Beware the battle cattle, but don't *fear* the battle cattle!4 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭notimetocare wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Never touching those *** things. So, zero. The instant they hit live, I'm gone, and never coming back.
Why wait? Leave now because your stubbornness won't prevent their release
Because I don't want to watch the resulting wreckage play out. I've done this dance enough times to not want to see it happen again.5 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭notimetocare wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
I'm not sure if you are aware of it yet, they are cosmetic only you know? They don't affect the gameplay at all! Like none. It would be a predatory model if they add p2w itens, which is not the case.
Even without p2w it's predatory because for some people playing barbie is the important thing in the game, not being best at PvE/PvP. And even if there's no malicious intent (it's not like they desire to hurt their players, after all), it's still negatively affecting the rest of us because we can no longer make informed purchasing decisions or plan ahead regarding what we want to buy.
Until now, we've been able to look at the data mining, the current cost of items in the Crown Store, and our expendable income, and decide how many Crowns to buy based on what we want and either how much it will probably cost (compared to current Crown Store offerings) or how much it does cost once it's already "hit the shelves". Now, though, there's way too much uncertainty because we'll never be able to tell what's going to hit the regular Crown Store for real purchases and what's going to be cordoned off to incentivize the gambling boxes. It completely changes the relationship we have with the service provider all because they want to start offering a gambling service that they have no business including.
By this logc, anything sold for money is predatory. I need to eat but they charge money for food...
If it's meat, you're the one being predatory.
1 -
StarlinkSoul ShrivenPersonally I would not waste a single crown on those things.
So, the answer is 0.2 -
WhiteMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭Here's the thing... All these people who can put down a number they will limit themselves to? You don't have to worry about them. They can stop themselves. It's the people who, like me, can't put a number down for a limit that will really lose here. I have fallen victim to these schemes before; I can't think of a number I would stop at. Right now, my "limit" would be as many crowns as I have (300, too few to spend anywhere else), but if for some reason I can't stop myself from taking out my wallet...
It's a self control issue. If I had to estimate, schemes like this have cost me $1000. That's $1000 dollars I'll never get back, from purchases that could never satisfy. They were RNG. I was young and far too optimistic and foolish. Thankfully, I've since grown up a bit. I know these things when I see them. Not everyone does, though.
If ZOS insists on adding these, the least they can do is provide the odds of "winning" (disgusting when used here) each goodie. "Very rare" or "Jackpot" aren't good enough.
*ZOS is not one of the companies that cost a younger me that money, I just hope a young user doesn't find themselves in a position like that.*Edited by WhiteMage on August 24, 2016 5:45AMThe generally amicable yet sporadically salty magplar that may or may not have 1vXed you in Sotha Sil. Who knows?5 -
notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Never touching those *** things. So, zero. The instant they hit live, I'm gone, and never coming back.
Why wait? Leave now because your stubbornness won't prevent their release
Because I don't want to watch the resulting wreckage play out. I've done this dance enough times to not want to see it happen again.
Reading is hard... If you plan to leave when they launch, why not jsut leave now?0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭notimetocare wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Never touching those *** things. So, zero. The instant they hit live, I'm gone, and never coming back.
Why wait? Leave now because your stubbornness won't prevent their release
Because I don't want to watch the resulting wreckage play out. I've done this dance enough times to not want to see it happen again.
Reading is hard... If you plan to leave when they launch, why not jsut leave now?
I left my trading guild a couple hours ago, actually. Pulled stuff out of the store, left it in my inventory. I wasn't able to drum up the interest to log in all weekend. Still haven't fed the horses on my alts since Thursday.
We'll see exactly when I get around to canceling my subscription.0 -
Stovahkiin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭starkerealm wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Never touching those *** things. So, zero. The instant they hit live, I'm gone, and never coming back.
Why wait? Leave now because your stubbornness won't prevent their release
Because I don't want to watch the resulting wreckage play out. I've done this dance enough times to not want to see it happen again.
Reading is hard... If you plan to leave when they launch, why not jsut leave now?
I left my trading guild a couple hours ago, actually. Pulled stuff out of the store, left it in my inventory. I wasn't able to drum up the interest to log in all weekend. Still haven't fed the horses on my alts since Thursday.
We'll see exactly when I get around to canceling my subscription.
That's how it was with me when I quit. I just lost all interest in playing and after at least a week of inactivity I just let my guild know that I was leaving and cancelled my sub.Beware the battle cattle, but don't *fear* the battle cattle!2 -
biovitalb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Never touching those *** things. So, zero. The instant they hit live, I'm gone, and never coming back.
Why not just leave now since we know they are coming? Or are you not serious about it? If you are, delete all your gold and characters and post a screenshot, if not stop being a 5 year old.0 -
Stovahkiin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭biovitalb16_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Never touching those *** things. So, zero. The instant they hit live, I'm gone, and never coming back.
Why not just leave now since we know they are coming? Or are you not serious about it? If you are, delete all your gold and characters and post a screenshot, if not stop being a 5 year old.
Some people already have. As for myself, I had already quit by the time I heard about these being released, now it just confirms that I won't be coming back.Beware the battle cattle, but don't *fear* the battle cattle!0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stovahkiin wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Never touching those *** things. So, zero. The instant they hit live, I'm gone, and never coming back.
Why wait? Leave now because your stubbornness won't prevent their release
Because I don't want to watch the resulting wreckage play out. I've done this dance enough times to not want to see it happen again.
Reading is hard... If you plan to leave when they launch, why not jsut leave now?
I left my trading guild a couple hours ago, actually. Pulled stuff out of the store, left it in my inventory. I wasn't able to drum up the interest to log in all weekend. Still haven't fed the horses on my alts since Thursday.
We'll see exactly when I get around to canceling my subscription.
That's how it was with me when I quit. I just lost all interest in playing and after at least a week of inactivity I just let my guild know that I was leaving and cancelled my sub.
That was kinda how it was back when the goldsellers and the deterioration bug drove me out the first time. Just wasn't logging in. Finally came back in, and saw that there were something like 30 messages, all goldspam ads. Logged out, didn't come back for ages.1 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭notimetocare wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
I'm not sure if you are aware of it yet, they are cosmetic only you know? They don't affect the gameplay at all! Like none. It would be a predatory model if they add p2w itens, which is not the case.
Even without p2w it's predatory because for some people playing barbie is the important thing in the game, not being best at PvE/PvP. And even if there's no malicious intent (it's not like they desire to hurt their players, after all), it's still negatively affecting the rest of us because we can no longer make informed purchasing decisions or plan ahead regarding what we want to buy.
Until now, we've been able to look at the data mining, the current cost of items in the Crown Store, and our expendable income, and decide how many Crowns to buy based on what we want and either how much it will probably cost (compared to current Crown Store offerings) or how much it does cost once it's already "hit the shelves". Now, though, there's way too much uncertainty because we'll never be able to tell what's going to hit the regular Crown Store for real purchases and what's going to be cordoned off to incentivize the gambling boxes. It completely changes the relationship we have with the service provider all because they want to start offering a gambling service that they have no business including.
By this logc, anything sold for money is predatory. I need to eat but they charge money for food...
@notimetocare Honey did you not even read the post? The crux of the argument is about informed decisions and pricing. That implies there is a price someone considers fair to pay, not that people should be getting things for free. It's not predatory to charge five dollars for a hamburger, but it IS predatory to charge 5 dollars for a chance at winning a hamburger. Just sell the darn hambuger like a normal person and stop trying to draw in gambling addicts who think that maybe this time the hamburger will be in the box.Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster7 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭biovitalb16_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Never touching those *** things. So, zero. The instant they hit live, I'm gone, and never coming back.
Why not just leave now since we know they are coming? Or are you not serious about it? If you are, delete all your gold and characters and post a screenshot, if not stop being a 5 year old.
Why the snot would I waste a week working through the delete limit? Easier to just delete the install and not bother to log in.4 -
Stovahkiin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭notimetocare wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
I'm not sure if you are aware of it yet, they are cosmetic only you know? They don't affect the gameplay at all! Like none. It would be a predatory model if they add p2w itens, which is not the case.
Even without p2w it's predatory because for some people playing barbie is the important thing in the game, not being best at PvE/PvP. And even if there's no malicious intent (it's not like they desire to hurt their players, after all), it's still negatively affecting the rest of us because we can no longer make informed purchasing decisions or plan ahead regarding what we want to buy.
Until now, we've been able to look at the data mining, the current cost of items in the Crown Store, and our expendable income, and decide how many Crowns to buy based on what we want and either how much it will probably cost (compared to current Crown Store offerings) or how much it does cost once it's already "hit the shelves". Now, though, there's way too much uncertainty because we'll never be able to tell what's going to hit the regular Crown Store for real purchases and what's going to be cordoned off to incentivize the gambling boxes. It completely changes the relationship we have with the service provider all because they want to start offering a gambling service that they have no business including.
By this logc, anything sold for money is predatory. I need to eat but they charge money for food...
@notimetocare Honey did you not even read the post? The crux of the argument is about informed decisions and pricing. That implies there is a price someone considers fair to pay, not that people should be getting things for free. It's not predatory to charge five dollars for a hamburger, but it IS predatory to charge 5 dollars for a chance at winning a hamburger. Just sell the darn hambuger like a normal person and stop trying to draw in gambling addicts who think that maybe this time the hamburger will be in the box.
Pretty much this... I wonder what the good folks at ZOS think as they read all these posts? Oh wait I remember, it's "MONEY!!
" Edited by Stovahkiin on August 24, 2016 5:56AMBeware the battle cattle, but don't *fear* the battle cattle!2 -
Asuryan11✭✭✭My Striped Senche Tiger isn't included which is all that matters on console :: so anything else is good with me
0
This discussion has been closed.