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A Conversation with ZOS on Balance
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Rjizzle09✭✭✭Well you didnt soecify this was a pvp thread at the top so im going to second the guy thats said something about pve. youre just looing at one side of things this game has both pve and pvp they ARENT separate at all cause for some reason zos cant make skills have a pvp function and a pve function like other games since matt firor said this isnt a real mmo i can understand why they have problems doing this. All end game sets should be better than a set you can craft or buy with ap thats extremely farmable these days. There are sets in pvp that you can use in pve and vice versa theres no reason i shouldnt be able to take my set from pvp to pve or from pve to pvp pvp and pve should be separate thats the problem in this game2 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »
You have to multiply all of the Dawnbreaker damage by 2 in order to compare. That's why he circled the ultimate cost.
Also, although both are instants, Ice Comet has an animation period that cannot be clipped.
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cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭If we really want 'balance' we need to get rid of set bonuses altogether.
Make the game about player skill, not about who can grind the longest.3 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Before people are like oh youre comparing a heavy armor tank set to a damage set...
MAGICKA HAS NOTHING EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE.7 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Please don't bring PvE into this thread.
PFFFffft.
PVP only encompases maybe 40% of the game. Yes people will damn well bring PVE into it, deal.
Though come to think of it given how *** in the face Maelstrom STILL IS, and the fact I have to routinely ask upon new releases, 'Who is this content for and is that person me', never mind class ballance, something we're largely equalizing at this point, what about that huge divide people been noticing between stamina and magicka now?
What about Maelstrom weapons still being needed to maximize DPS potential?
What about Vigor being necessary for a ***' PvE DPS?
What about the Tanks who's roll is largely now, in the eyes of the playerbase, only needed for trials because Wobrel did his best to exterminate us?
Ballance my ass.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on August 17, 2016 8:29PM3 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Which gives the illusion of skill and the ever-present 'Git Gud's' ...when in reality they beat someone because they've got X FotM set and Y weapon for spending 15 hours grinding one thing over and over and over again. And they run the same rotation of skills that everyone else does.
Makes me miss the old games where someone starting out could theoretically kill a person at max level. They'd need to be very lucky of course, but it would be possible. (I doubt a level 10 new to Cyrodiil could even damage me fast enough to overcome my health regen.)
Set bonuses should be just that -bonuses.- Not the basis of how you play.
Every bonus should be toned down, and some form of caps needs to be reintroduced. Otherwise ANY talk of balancing is pointless.
Anyway, I'm old man ranting.6 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Which gives the illusion of skill and the ever-present 'Git Gud's' ...when in reality they beat someone because they've got X FotM set and Y weapon for spending 15 hours grinding one thing over and over and over again. And they run the same rotation of skills that everyone else does.
Makes me miss the old games where someone starting out could theoretically kill a person at max level. They'd need to be very lucky of course, but it would be possible. (I doubt a level 10 new to Cyrodiil could even damage me fast enough to overcome my health regen.)
Set bonuses should be just that -bonuses.- Not the basis of how you play.
Every bonus should be toned down, and some form of caps needs to be reintroduced. Otherwise ANY talk of balancing is pointless.
Anyway, I'm old man ranting.
Softcaps.
Back in the legendary times of launch softcaps were the thing you met on almost every build and slightly pushed for specific rolls. It was more ballanced than what we have now, and more ballanced PVE side too where the bosses were designed with the softcaps in mind, meaning you had to pay attention to mechanics.
Softcaps were good. I wish they'd come home.9 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have a different opinion on softcaps. The end result of soft caps is that everyone has approximately the same magicka, health, stamina and weapon/spell power. I don't like that. It's boring and it homogenizes the game.
I think there are better ways to do it, like balancing individual skills, sets, and passives consistently with every single minor patch.
Edited by Xeven on August 17, 2016 8:45PM6 -
AfkNinja✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have a different opinion on softcaps. The end result of soft caps is that everyone has approximately the same magicka, health, stamina and weapon/spell power. I don't like that. It's boring and it homogenizes the game.
I think there are better ways to do it, like balancing individual skills, sets, and passives consistently with every single minor patch.
And they had to use their skills and individual skill to assess a situation and react accordingly. That's a bad thing to you? You'd rather have what we have now with everyone stacking everything into 1337 dmg to drop you in 3 seconds or less?4 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have a different opinion on softcaps. The end result of soft caps is that everyone has approximately the same magicka, health, stamina and weapon/spell power. I don't like that. It's boring and it homogenizes the game.
I think there are better ways to do it, like balancing individual skills, sets, and passives consistently with every single minor patch.
That is literally the definition of balance.6 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have a different opinion on softcaps. The end result of soft caps is that everyone has approximately the same magicka, health, stamina and weapon/spell power. I don't like that. It's boring and it homogenizes the game.
I think there are better ways to do it, like balancing individual skills, sets, and passives consistently with every single minor patch.
Back in the day, that hemogenization was broken up by sets and abilities which determined your roll then your skill your effectiveness at it. Heaven forbid we have -that-.
But even that aside, lets be honest, ZOS has shown they cant do individual ballance things. So long as they must design for PVP and PVE, not seperating the two, it will allways suffer. The hemoganization was necessary because they were designing for two different playing fields.
To further unhemogonize, the deciding factor in PVP used to be tactics, builds, and numbers. Since everyones stats were the same the time or damage to kill was normalized, and it was all up to the player to do it. A sense of strategy remained intact. The only times I ever PVP'd in this game were back then. And it was vastly more fun than now.
Then Wrobel came in and tore it down because he didn't understand why it was there. Now here we are.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on August 17, 2016 8:50PM6 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stacking stamina or magicka isn't the problem. Overpowered weapons, sets, abilities, and passives are.3 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have a different opinion on softcaps. The end result of soft caps is that everyone has approximately the same magicka, health, stamina and weapon/spell power. I don't like that. It's boring and it homogenizes the game.
I think there are better ways to do it, like balancing individual skills, sets, and passives consistently with every single minor patch.
That is literally the definition of balance.
You're right, it just lacks flavor.3 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have a different opinion on softcaps. The end result of soft caps is that everyone has approximately the same magicka, health, stamina and weapon/spell power. I don't like that. It's boring and it homogenizes the game.
I think there are better ways to do it, like balancing individual skills, sets, and passives consistently with every single minor patch.
That is literally the definition of balance.
You're right, it just lacks flavor.
What lacks flavor is being penalized for not adhering to the exact same set and exact same skills as everyone else.
Soft caps allows you to make a hybrid if you want. It allows you to use skills that others don't and not always have to follow the 'meta' in order to be competitive.
Did you actually play pre-1.5?4 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭I played with softcaps yes, and we had ult spaming god mode magidks everywhere.
Im not saying softcaps arent a good idea, it just feels... wrong.4 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭I played with softcaps yes, and we had ult spaming god mode magidks everywhere.
Im not saying softcaps arent a good idea, it just feels... wrong.
We also dynamic Ultimate generation back then too and Stamina was just broken period.
Not saying it'd be perfect, but it's got to be better than making min/maxing the standard and not just for the tryhards.Edited by cjthibs on August 17, 2016 8:56PM3 -
AfkNinja✭✭✭✭✭
✭They will never bring back soft caps though, cause that would be admitting they don goofed.1 -
Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well this quickly escalated into a nerf stamina thread.
Seriously magicka users please stop. Just stop.
STOP !5 -
JudahXBL✭✭For reference all screenshots were taken with 30k stam/mag and 3k spell/weapon damage. Check it out. It's kind of awesome.
Ah, I was wondering why the initial damage was so low lol. I still prefer Shooting Star, though.0 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Well this quickly escalated into a nerf stamina thread.
Seriously magicka users please stop. Just stop.
STOP !
Nobody is asking for a stam nerf. We just want the gap closed, pun intended.
Edited by Xeven on August 17, 2016 9:31PM10 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I'd be like if Fromsoft removed soft/hard caps from Dark Souls....NO THANKS.
I don't really have any experience with that one.
I think at this point I'd be happy if they just reintroduced soft caps in Cyrodiil. It really only matters there, and the PvE'ers can still feel amazing when they compare epee...err DPS meters.Edited by cjthibs on August 17, 2016 9:40PM1 -
Thelon✭✭✭✭✭
✭
@Forestd16b14_ESOForestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Well this quickly escalated into a nerf stamina thread.
you are literally the first person to use the words "nerf stamina" in this thread, FYI
there are lots of screenshots here for your purview. Do you feel these demonstrate an acceptable balance between Magicka and Stamina gear sets, passives, etc?8
