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A Conversation with ZOS on Balance
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Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Guys stop being stupid. The comparison is to show how strong Vigor is, nobody is saying Vigor is better than BoL.2 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Samuel_Bantien wrote: »He forgot to highlight how the Lich Crystals take 3 seconds to blow up for less damage than Velidreth! XD
Also Blood Spawn has stamina recovery WTB magicka recovery Undaunted.
Except that in PvE Nerien'eth = more DPS than Velidreth, because the crystal procs don't have a cooldown.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Thelon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »I pointed out BOL in the first place because someone was complaining that magicka heals weren't as good.
is BOL available to all magicka classes in the same way vigor is available to all stamina classes?
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Actually_Goku✭✭✭✭Disable the 5 piece bonuses of sets in PVP.
A lot of what is wrong with this game lies in RNG. As someone pointed out earlier, there's no fun in PVP when someone wins because their 5-piece bonus was the lucky one, and theirs proc while their opponents doesn't.
5 piece sets - "Taking damage grants 3,000,000 additive instaheal and you breathe fire which deals Dawnbreaker of Smiting and Dizzying Swing 5 times in 3 seconds" isn't fun, doesn't rely on skill AT ALL and is breaking the game, and driving people to just bite the bullet and adopt a cancerous build and playstyle.
I might add that the recent "fix" to regen is also an indirect buff to stamina and heavy armor. My Mag DK can't catch a break at the minute. Since SOTH dropped, I've been getting constantly gimped by Dizzying Swing DK's and Gankers, because - you guessed it, I'm out of Magicka. Because the Light Armor Passives suck, and on top of that I can't spec for Magicka anyway or throwing marshmallows at me kills me.
Magicka builds - combat regen issues by going 7 pieces light armor, but then you'll die when someone farts in your direction. So maybe spec some heavy armor, but then you're out of Magicka after 6 spells cast and your attacks hit like monkeys throwing poop at you. Feels good man.5 -
Soleya✭✭✭✭✭
✭I checked my tooltips.
Magicka Templar BOL and Rapid Regeneration
Stam Nightblade Resolving Vigor
Only buffs are food, major brutality/sorcery and major mending from resto staff.
Rapid Regen is available to everyone, and easy to unlock and nearly the same healing per second as Vigor, but lasts way longer.1 -
The-Baconator✭✭✭✭Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »I checked my tooltips.
Magicka Templar BOL and Rapid Regeneration
Stam Nightblade Resolving Vigor
Only buffs are food, major brutality/sorcery and major mending from resto staff.
Rapid Regen is available to everyone, and easy to unlock and nearly the same healing per second as Vigor, but lasts way longer.
That vigor tooltip is terribad. On my stamplar without undaunted or alch my vigor sits just over 20k with just major mending + rally. If I wanted to troll I could even add malubeth and vitality pots to the combo and get +5k vigor ticks but I can't bring myself to play something so ridiculous after I mained a sorc throughout 1.6\2.0.
Edit: And to be clear, people are not arguing stam healers are running around keeping entire groups up with vigor spam and outclassing magplars as healers. The point of the vigor comparison is that stam has ridiculously strong self heals, heals that are second only to a class that uses healing as its only significant survival tool. The point of the thread is that the overall balance between stamina and magicka--in solo play more than anything else--is tilted a great degree in stamina's favor. I would argue that literally every stamina spec outperforms its magicka counterpart in soloplay, even the once infamous permashielding and permabolting mag sorc is no longer a match for stam sorc, a class that was only kept from being more of a running joke than magicka dk is right now by the majority of the game population's complete ignorance of the possibility that a sorcerer could be something that wasn't magicka. Cherry picking tooltips is admittedly a poor way to go about highlighting the stam\mag imbalance in either direction, but I would love to see a reasonable argument explaining why magicka is even in the same area code as stamina for smallscale atm.Edited by The-Baconator on August 20, 2016 4:26AMFirst PS4 NA Grand Overlord, Stormproof, and Flawless Conqueror.
Potato Lord of Atrocity8 -
SublimeSparo✭✭✭✭✭Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »Uh, I hate to break it to you but, for almost half the cost, Vigor heals more than BoL, a class specific, class defining heal. Vigor scales REALLY well with Stamina/Weapon Damage. Both screenshots with 40k mag/stam and 4k weapon/spell power:
See for yourself if you don't believe me.
I can't check my tooltips, but I'll just go with what you said. Thanks for the info.
I'll start queuing my stamblade as healer for dungeons and trials and just spam VIgor, since it's the best heal in the game.
I'm sure the groups I run with will be happy with that.
I've healed dungeons on a stamblade using vigour. No joke. No complaints from anyone.
We even used to heal through high damage phases in trials by having all the stam builds spam vigour lolEdited by SublimeSparo on August 20, 2016 7:58AMPS4 EU CP900. PS4 NA CP600,
vAA HM ☆ vHRC HM ☆ vSO HM ☆ vMOL
4th Console vMOL clear,
vMA cleared on all classes stam & magic
My TribeEU
High Sparo - Altmer - mSo DD.
Wood Sparo - Bosmer - sNB DD
Nord Sparo - Nord -sDK DD/Tank.
Bubble Girl - Imperial -sTe DD
Succubus Sue - Breton - mNB Tank.
Andrana Stormlock - Altmer - mTe Healer/ DD
Elvali Marvani - Dunmer - mDK DD.
Venemus Draconem - Redguard - sDK DD
Jayri Leki - Redguard - sSo DD.
Miss Jabsalot - Altmer - mTe PvP DD/ Tank
Mireli Hlaano - Dunmer - mNB DD.
Ms Shanks - Redguard - sNB DD/ le bank
NA
Dilemma Dame - Altmer - mDK DD
Stamsorc Kitty - Redguard - sSor DD
Aia Draconis - Imperial - sDK Tank
Decides-Who-Lives - Argonian - mTe Healer
You wont stop me - Altmer - mSo DD
Stab in the dark - Khajiit - sNB DD
Jabjabjab Beambeambeam - Dunmer - mTe DD
Spatium Auxiliarus - Imperial - hTe Tank&bank
Spectre - Altmer - mNB DD
Can't-Main-Tank -Argonian - sDK offTank0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Nah you cast ice comet, then streak/fossilize/Fear and bam, free hit as they are knocked up into the air.Saucy_Jack wrote: »Now, if the DOT simply gets applied to whoever the meteor initially hits regardless of whether they stay in or out of the target area, then yeah, ice comet deserves the additional ultimate cost.
Thats how the Dawnbreaker dot works. It sticks to you, and you can see it as kind of a yellow cloud on your character.
The meteor DOT is ground based.
There is a full 2 second telegraph beginning with a loud boom and a rune at your feet!!
Easily blockable, and if you block, you are not snared either.
Meanwhile you can stack dawnbreaker with any gapcloser. There is no telegraph. It is animation cancelable and instant. It's dot is target based. It does 20% more damage to vampires and werewolves, and, its cheap AF.
Power Wealth And Influence.0 -
Jar_Ek✭✭✭✭✭Isn't the main problem here the lack of an intelligent design philosophy going forwards.
When softcaps existed all classes had some form of class heal with a magicka cost and access to a resto staff (or 2h rally as the only stamina heal). When softcaps were removed stamina aka weapon builds suddenly had limited healing options as they lost access to many class heals (basically rally and so 2h). So vigour was added because healing is vital to survival and stamina builds were not in a good place for healing... but originally it was locked behind a high AP wall and although very strong was at least difficult to get. Now its easy to get.
It seems like the house of cards is now rather wobbly as CP, gear, stacked attributes, and skills all interact in difficult to balance ways.
I suspect that shields were intended to balance stamina heals and damage, but stacking was making them way too strong. However the zos fix essentially killed them as an effective defensive mechanism for the majority of players. So now there is a much more obvious imbalance.1 -
MirkoZ✭✭✭✭
Yes but the heal over time is consumed so it heals for only 5 k. Yes yes we can spam it but hey, if there are 2 friends near you the mutagen healing them instead you, instead vigor healing the caster and nearby allies.Edited by MirkoZ on August 20, 2016 9:39AM1 -
GrigorijMalahevich✭✭✭✭✭
Would you also take a resto staff for that? Yes? Really? This is the main argument. Put healing ward/mutagen in mages guild abilities instead of equilibrium and see the situation massively change.
PC/EU 800 CP.
PvP MagSorc.Pedro Gonzales - Mag Sorc EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/CB6j6
Valera Progib - Stam Sorc DC vMA Flawless Conqueror clear https://i.imgur.com/eYgpXG2.png
Valera Pozhar - Mag DK EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/jrsuK
Valera Podlechi - Mag Templar AD vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/N0BYq5 -
Thelon✭✭✭✭✭
✭
u know it requires equipping a Resto Staff right? What weapon are stam builds forced to run to access vigor?Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »Rapid Regen is available to everyone
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CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Valera Progib wrote: »
Would you also take a resto staff for that? Yes? Really? This is the main argument. Put healing ward/mutagen in mages guild abilities instead of equilibrium and see the situation massively change.
I'd give anything for Healing Ward to be in the 1H+shield line as well.0 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »I pointed out BOL in the first place because someone was complaining that magicka heals weren't as good.
is BOL available to all magicka classes in the same way vigor is available to all stamina classes?
Nope, nor are there any sets desisgned to help out stam builds with heaValera Progib wrote: »
Would you also take a resto staff for that? Yes? Really? This is the main argument. Put healing ward/mutagen in mages guild abilities instead of equilibrium and see the situation massively change.
Cool can stam builds then get Spell Symmetry as an effect of the now worthless expert hunter or one of its morphs. I'd trade 4K health for 5K Stam and empower plus 30% cost reduction on my next ability anytime.1 -
GrigorijMalahevich✭✭✭✭✭CapuchinSeven wrote: »Valera Progib wrote: »
Would you also take a resto staff for that? Yes? Really? This is the main argument. Put healing ward/mutagen in mages guild abilities instead of equilibrium and see the situation massively change.
I'd give anything for Healing Ward to be in the 1H+shield line as well.
You already have vigor in assault. Healing ward scales of magicka, so 1h +shield should have access to it as an mages guild ability - that is my argument. What you said is very weak or you did not think.Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »I pointed out BOL in the first place because someone was complaining that magicka heals weren't as good.
is BOL available to all magicka classes in the same way vigor is available to all stamina classes?
Nope, nor are there any sets desisgned to help out stam builds with heaValera Progib wrote: »
Would you also take a resto staff for that? Yes? Really? This is the main argument. Put healing ward/mutagen in mages guild abilities instead of equilibrium and see the situation massively change.
Cool can stam builds then get Spell Symmetry as an effect of the now worthless expert hunter or one of its morphs. I'd trade 4K health for 5K Stam and empower plus 30% cost reduction on my next ability anytime.
Wow mate, really? I feel that my iq is dropping by just existing in the same universe as you...PC/EU 800 CP.
PvP MagSorc.Pedro Gonzales - Mag Sorc EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/CB6j6
Valera Progib - Stam Sorc DC vMA Flawless Conqueror clear https://i.imgur.com/eYgpXG2.png
Valera Pozhar - Mag DK EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/jrsuK
Valera Podlechi - Mag Templar AD vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/N0BYq0 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Valera Progib wrote: »CapuchinSeven wrote: »Valera Progib wrote: »
Would you also take a resto staff for that? Yes? Really? This is the main argument. Put healing ward/mutagen in mages guild abilities instead of equilibrium and see the situation massively change.
I'd give anything for Healing Ward to be in the 1H+shield line as well.
You already have vigor in assault. Healing ward scales of magicka, so 1h +shield should have access to it as an mages guild ability - that is my argument. What you said is very weak or you did not think.
No I understand your point about Mutagen being in Mages guild, but they can't BOTH go in Mages guild. I get your point though if they are in Mages guild they can be used my multiple builds, I was just thinking out loud mostly (on first read I only saw you mentioning Mutagen actually, I missed you mention ward which is why I brought it up) and in my head it always felt like it would have been better as a magicka ability in the 1H+S tree.
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Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭
[/quote]
Cool can stam builds then get Spell Symmetry as an effect of the now worthless expert hunter or one of its morphs. I'd trade 4K health for 5K Stam and empower plus 30% cost reduction on my next ability anytime. [/quote]
Wow mate, really? I feel that my iq is dropping by just existing in the same universe as you...[/quote]
You believe that a skill that lowers the cost of other skills that already cost less than it does is useful? Yeah you're IQ might be dropping mate? Better get that *** looked at it.0 -
Siphoneer✭✭✭I agree and Ive been trying to work on a Nightblade hybrid that uses magicka abilities to heal but stamina to hit and as Ive been trying out different skills I've noticed Stamina hits harder by a mile and without light armor its hard to maintain Magicka, which is why I quit playing my Sorcerer as it was a constant juggling game and squeezing out damage from anything I can find and sacrificing sustain for damage.
Ive thought of a few ways that would help with balancing, bear in mind this is just my opinion and ideas Ive thought of.
- block and dodge roll have its own resource pool
- damage shields have (slightly) longer duration to make up for less protection with LA
- more variety of sets for both magicka and stamina
- give each class a skill line dedicated to healing, defence and buffs with stamina and magicka morphs
- give magicka more spam abilities (especially sorcerer) so they dont have to rely on a destro staff to get sustained damage
- weapon skills have magicka morph or a spell sword skill line
- think of something else light armor can offer that makes up for lack of protection for sustain and cost reduction
Im too tired to write up more but this is just my opinion and idea, doubt ZOS will do anything about the balancing other then bandaid it.1 -
E-Zekiel✭✭✭Guys stop being stupid. The comparison is to show how strong Vigor is, nobody is saying Vigor is better than BoL.
....That's what you were saying, but okay. I'll pretend like it wasn't.
For the third time, I'll repeat that I feel vigor heals too much. YOU shouldn't be the person to argue it though because YOU reach too far and make horrible comparisons and take nothing into account outside of your own tunnel vision.
I'm not here to deny that stamina in general has it better than magicka. Stamina definitely has it better. You're just reaching too far. *shrug*
If you came across like less of a troll, too, you might help get your own point across.Edited by E-Zekiel on August 21, 2016 4:52AM0 -
Actually_Goku✭✭✭✭Damage shields need to be put back up to like, 12 seconds. To go from 20 to 6 and act like it's justified is ridiculous.2
