Mag temps need a nerf.

frozywozy · August 2016

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

If Mag temps get a nerf, please nerf Stamblades, Stamsorc, Stamplar & StamDK at the same time, yess? Oh heck, cant you just nerf magsorcs, magblades and magDKs while you're on it? I mean.. Let's play the game of nerfs!

Just because you can't one-shot something, it has to be nerfed? You're talking about Magplars tanking 3+ people for ages, I've seen both Stamina DKs and Magicka DKs to the exact same, where's their nerf-threads, yaw?
If a templar is running Reactive, Fasallas, Malubeth(Or all three!) then it's built as a tank and it sacrifices damage for it. I mean, if I built my templar into a tank, I would also expect myself to tank multiple people at once.

Or am I just a complete idiot for thinking that tanks are supposed to tank more than one person in Cyro?

I play a magplar with spell resist cap (33k) and near physical resist cap (30k) on top of 2500 crit resist and I get one shot (multiple damage procs in 1 second) often by stamblades. 9.4k incap / snipes. I personally don't think the tankyness of a magplar is the problem. The problem is their damage potential and the absurdity of Radiant Destruction.

DHale · August 2016

Nerfing Templars? Ridiculous... any class with sword and board and heavy armor and a good heal can be powerful... is powerful. Once upon a time I could put on blazing shield and harness magic and literally sit in a standard of might and in talons while being whipped an take zero damage in light armor. Ppl used to kill them selves on my blazing shield with blinding flashes you might a well throw cotton candy at me. It's certainly not Templars as a class it only gets more powerful in heavy armor reactive or black rose combined with sword and shield passives combined with malubeth combined with a good heal. I do find it humorous that incap strike and dawnbreaker blast ppl for three quarters of a persons health but we are worried about a class that cannot keep up with any trials group or dungeon or pvp deeps in terms of weapon damage or dps output. My Stam toon with purple weapons and purple gear can out dps my magic Templar with five gold all divines tbs 2 Skoria golded, using retribution vmsa destro elemental blockade spear spam and can sustain longer.

frozywozy · August 2016

Also, as I've said a long time ago during the 1.6 era, armor trees should have been designed to tank one type of damage. Just like in any single player The Elder Scrolls game. Light armor was used to mitigate magic damage and Heavy/Medium Armor was used to mitigate physical damage. This way, we don't create juggernaut who can tank absolutely everything.

Oh wait.. that would require 2 tanks in pve. nvm

Emma_Overload · August 2016

Man, Magicka Templars are so far from being OP, it's not even funny. I fight them from time to time on my Mag Sorc, and it's a RELIEF to fight any of them instead of a stamina build.

What needs to happen is for Mag DKs and Mag Sorcs to be BUFFED to be as good as Templars... maybe even throw a bone to Magblades, too. Then we might see some balance with the truly overpowered builds, which are STAMINA builds!

Xvorg · August 2016

DHale wrote: »

Nerfing Templars? Ridiculous... any class with sword and board and heavy armor and a good heal can be powerful... is powerful. Once upon a time I could put on blazing shield and harness magic and literally sit in a standard of might and in talons while being whipped an take zero damage in light armor. Ppl used to kill them selves on my blazing shield with blinding flashes you might a well throw cotton candy at me. It's certainly not Templars as a class it only gets more powerful in heavy armor reactive or black rose combined with sword and shield passives combined with malubeth combined with a good heal. I do find it humorous that incap strike and dawnbreaker blast ppl for three quarters of a persons health but we are worried about a class that cannot keep up with any trials group or dungeon or pvp deeps in terms of weapon damage or dps output. My Stam toon with purple weapons and purple gear can out dps my magic Templar with five gold all divines tbs 2 Skoria golded, using retribution vmsa destro elemental blockade spear spam and can sustain longer.

You mean, Templar? Because other classes heals are mediocre.

Magus · August 2016

Sigh. Should I wade into this mess? It's the purge that makes templar strong. If you run into an amateur re-roll templar, they don't manage their debuffs and die easily despite omg heals. You can tank with any class in heavy but the combo with the purge is what makes the templar strong. HtD on a heavy armor templar built for tanking is pretty lackluster. You can get a better and easier to sustain heal for resources with vigor but you lose the purge, which is what makes the templar strong. Sorry to let the cat out of the bag, purge nerf incoming.

frozywozy · August 2016

Magus wrote: »

Sigh. Should I wade into this mess? It's the purge that makes templar strong. If you run into an amateur re-roll templar, they don't manage their debuffs and die easily despite omg heals. You can tank with any class in heavy but the combo with the purge is what makes the templar strong. HtD on a heavy armor templar built for tanking is pretty lackluster. You can get a better and easier to sustain heal for resources with vigor but you lose the purge, which is what makes the templar strong. Sorry to let the cat out of the bag, purge nerf incoming.

I'm actually gonna use Cleanse over Ritual when I finally get it morphed. Additional 10% magicka recovery, and not procing Fasalla's guile is a huge advantage. I still have Channel Focus to proc Major Mending so no worries there. I also still have Inner Light to reveal nightblades so the damage from Ritual of Retribution is not that significant.

Magus · August 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

Sigh. Should I wade into this mess? It's the purge that makes templar strong. If you run into an amateur re-roll templar, they don't manage their debuffs and die easily despite omg heals. You can tank with any class in heavy but the combo with the purge is what makes the templar strong. HtD on a heavy armor templar built for tanking is pretty lackluster. You can get a better and easier to sustain heal for resources with vigor but you lose the purge, which is what makes the templar strong. Sorry to let the cat out of the bag, purge nerf incoming.

I'm actually gonna use Cleanse over Ritual when I finally get it morphed. Additional 10% magicka recovery, and not procing Fasalla's guile is a huge advantage. I still have Channel Focus to proc Major Mending so no worries there. I also still have Inner Light to reveal nightblades so the damage from Ritual of Retribution is not that significant.

Cleanse gives a decent heal and great group utility. Nothing beats ritual for personal or solo play though. Cleanse is super expensive, especially without light armor cost reduction passives so I'm skeptical of your sustain running it with heavy armor.

Speaking of fasalla's, I was on my stamDK when you were chasing me toward the sewers from Ash last night, so you would have had a bad day with that set. Had already unloaded dawnbreaker on you before that other DC came out of nowhere, so meh wasn't a good fight but had places to be.

Ashamray · August 2016

Nerf of healing only for Magicka Templars will cause:
1) Fade of survivability. Damage in pvp is insane in spite of resistanse, battle spirit, CP-mitigation. If BoL would be nerfed, Templar would use it more often >>>>
2) ...Fade of sustainability. Obviously? Yes, magplars will spend more stats into regen >>>>
3) ...Fade of damage.

One nerf will cause a snowslip, because healing is the main magplar's tool.

frozywozy · August 2016

Magus wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

Sigh. Should I wade into this mess? It's the purge that makes templar strong. If you run into an amateur re-roll templar, they don't manage their debuffs and die easily despite omg heals. You can tank with any class in heavy but the combo with the purge is what makes the templar strong. HtD on a heavy armor templar built for tanking is pretty lackluster. You can get a better and easier to sustain heal for resources with vigor but you lose the purge, which is what makes the templar strong. Sorry to let the cat out of the bag, purge nerf incoming.

I'm actually gonna use Cleanse over Ritual when I finally get it morphed. Additional 10% magicka recovery, and not procing Fasalla's guile is a huge advantage. I still have Channel Focus to proc Major Mending so no worries there. I also still have Inner Light to reveal nightblades so the damage from Ritual of Retribution is not that significant.

Cleanse gives a decent heal and great group utility. Nothing beats ritual for personal or solo play though. Cleanse is super expensive, especially without light armor cost reduction passives so I'm skeptical of your sustain running it with heavy armor.

Speaking of fasalla's, I was on my stamDK when you were chasing me toward the sewers from Ash last night, so you would have had a bad day with that set. Had already unloaded dawnbreaker on you before that other DC came out of nowhere, so meh wasn't a good fight but had places to be.

I'm at 2.1k mag recovery and with all the Breton passives (cost reduc + max magicka) on top of max magika from inner light I'm doing fine with the sustain. Cleanse won't be a problem.

s7732425ub17_ESO · August 2016

Kas wrote: »

just fix reactive's interaction with snare to reflect the tooltip. everything else is somewhat fine, imho

Wait, Reactive works with snares? Everyone nowadays is pretty much running permasnare builds. I can see this being stupidly powerful. Obviously not meant to work with snares.

Ron_Burgundy_79 · August 2016

Magus wrote: »

Sigh. Should I wade into this mess? It's the purge that makes templar strong. If you run into an amateur re-roll templar, they don't manage their debuffs and die easily despite omg heals. You can tank with any class in heavy but the combo with the purge is what makes the templar strong. HtD on a heavy armor templar built for tanking is pretty lackluster. You can get a better and easier to sustain heal for resources with vigor but you lose the purge, which is what makes the templar strong. Sorry to let the cat out of the bag, purge nerf incoming.

Just some quick nerf history on this particular group of skills:

1. Purify ritual originally cleansed off incoming projectiles such as snipe. It was nice for templars since our in class reflect leave a lot to be desired. This turned out to be a bug.
2. Purifying ritual used to provide a 30% increase to healing done. This was replaced with major mending. (I believe channelled focus did the same thing and stacked with purifying ritual. Not 100% sure on that)
3. Purifying ritual was removed as a templar "fix" to increase build diversity. It was replaced with ritual of retribution. No one ever ran cleansing because it only purified 2 negative effects.
4. Cleansing ritual became the old purifying ritual when ZOS buffed it to remove 5 negative effects, albeit it costs about twice as much as purify did.

This is just one set of skills within the templar class skill lines that has been repeatedly nerfed.

donJay · August 2016

Magplars are not op

Derra · August 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

@RinaldoGandolphi depends on your definition of balanced. Magplars hardly feel the weaknesses you listed for them, and stamina certainly doesn't have clear weaknesses anymore with proper builds. I expect clear weaknesses and limitations in my idea of balance, and heavy armor snb magplar currently does not have those. Same with stamina.

Well it´s either magplar + all stamina specs are balance or the three remaining magica specs are.

frozywozy wrote: »

Also, as I've said a long time ago during the 1.6 era, armor trees should have been designed to tank one type of damage. Just like in any single player The Elder Scrolls game. Light armor was used to mitigate magic damage and Heavy/Medium Armor was used to mitigate physical damage. This way, we don't create juggernaut who can tank absolutely everything.

Oh wait.. that would require 2 tanks in pve. nvm

God forbid things that would allow them to create interesting mechanics.

Bandit1215 · August 2016

I am completely against slamming Templars into the ground with the nerf bat, and I think they are in a good spot except for one thing, and that is the infamous jesus beam.
I wouldn't want to make this ability complete ***, but it definitely should not be as ridiculous as it is right now. I think that it should be dodge-able but not line of sight-able, and reduce the range to like 20 meters (so a gap closer can be effective at the same range) and reduce the execute range to 20% (so it is just like every other execute in the game)

Baconlad · August 2016

Its not templar! Its light armor...its weak AF. Medium armor is fine, heavy armor is in a great place right now. How many NBs/ DKs/ sorcs run light armor? Now how many of them (that are magic specced) run heavy armor? Most probably run light...abd when they do, they tickle nine times out of ten. DKs run heavy alot, and it works out for them, they are tanky, and strong. I'm telling you buff light armor, balance will be restored. XD thanks for you time

frozywozy · August 2016

Baconlad wrote: »

Its not templar! Its light armor...its weak AF. Medium armor is fine, heavy armor is in a great place right now. How many NBs/ DKs/ sorcs run light armor? Now how many of them (that are magic specced) run heavy armor? Most probably run light...abd when they do, they tickle nine times out of ten. DKs run heavy alot, and it works out for them, they are tanky, and strong. I'm telling you buff light armor, balance will be restored. XD thanks for you time

I fought some light armor magicka sorcs or magicka nbs with insane sustain and tankyness this meta. yet they could put out significant damage. I don't think LA is in a bad shape.

The key is to keep your shields up. If you let your shields going down (hardened ward, annulement, healing ward), you are vulnerable to crits and thats where the burst comes and destroys you.

SanTii.92 · August 2016

Agreed with those that are saying heavy armor is the problem. Particularly the combination of tanky to the point of unkillable if not outnumbered, unlimited sustain, off the roof healing capability - which also takes away the possibility to at least go after his partner and leave him alone, and more than decent dps.

Tho I also got to agree that the Stam meta is pretty terrible too. And until the shuffle, unchained, almost immune dodge rollers are also heavily nerfed I'd rather have a heal bot at my side.

Vaoh · August 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

Wow this thread turned into AIDS pretty quickly.

Anyone who disagrees that magicka Templar is op is either misinformed or in denial. Same with each stamina class in their own ways. Too much damage for how tanky they can all get, and no one is limited by sustain anymore. This game is a joke.

Shhhh!!!......... you'd have all of the former terrible players realize they never actually got better! Can't wait for balancing.

Darnathian · August 2016

Derra wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Most nerfed since release class should be nerfed...
Sure, it will fix all problems in pvp.

I think if you´re going by numbers and the severeness of nerfs sorcerer is the most nerfed class.

Disagree. its a lot closer now but Mag DK

Lore_lai · August 2016

So wait.
If a damage-spec build roflstomps 7 people then it's "OMG you're so cool *dreamy eyes*", but if a tanky-spec templar survives 2 minutes (the humanity!! - OP is gonna have a serious wake-up call when he realizes "lasting" 2 minutes is not that good *ahem*

) then it's the end of the world, think of the children, pls nerf etc. etc. ?

donJay · August 2016

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

@RinaldoGandolphi depends on your definition of balanced. Magplars hardly feel the weaknesses you listed for them, and stamina certainly doesn't have clear weaknesses anymore with proper builds. I expect clear weaknesses and limitations in my idea of balance, and heavy armor snb magplar currently does not have those. Same with stamina.

Except a heavy armor sword and board magplar will have a hard time killing anyone. That's a weakness.

lol

Van_0S · August 2016

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Man, Magicka Templars are so far from being OP, it's not even funny. I fight them from time to time on my Mag Sorc, and it's a RELIEF to fight any of them instead of a stamina build.

What needs to happen is for Mag DKs and Mag Sorcs to be BUFFED to be as good as Templars... maybe even throw a bone to Magblades, too. Then we might see some balance with the truly overpowered builds, which are STAMINA builds!

I agree, we need mag dk( especially) and mag sorc to get a buff.

Sugaroverdose · August 2016

Xvorg wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Nerfing Templars? Ridiculous... any class with sword and board and heavy armor and a good heal can be powerful... is powerful. Once upon a time I could put on blazing shield and harness magic and literally sit in a standard of might and in talons while being whipped an take zero damage in light armor. Ppl used to kill them selves on my blazing shield with blinding flashes you might a well throw cotton candy at me. It's certainly not Templars as a class it only gets more powerful in heavy armor reactive or black rose combined with sword and shield passives combined with malubeth combined with a good heal. I do find it humorous that incap strike and dawnbreaker blast ppl for three quarters of a persons health but we are worried about a class that cannot keep up with any trials group or dungeon or pvp deeps in terms of weapon damage or dps output. My Stam toon with purple weapons and purple gear can out dps my magic Templar with five gold all divines tbs 2 Skoria golded, using retribution vmsa destro elemental blockade spear spam and can sustain longer.

You mean, Templar? Because other classes heals are mediocre.

Run "working as intended" malubeth and you'll have heal, also what's wrong with saptanks?

Ron_Burgundy_79 · August 2016

Bandit1215 wrote: »

I am completely against slamming Templars into the ground with the nerf bat, and I think they are in a good spot except for one thing, and that is the infamous jesus beam.
I wouldn't want to make this ability complete ***, but it definitely should not be as ridiculous as it is right now. I think that it should be dodge-able but not line of sight-able, and reduce the range to like 20 meters (so a gap closer can be effective at the same range) and reduce the execute range to 20% (so it is just like every other execute in the game)

Nerf bat is basically the same thing as a nerf hammer.

donJay wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

@RinaldoGandolphi depends on your definition of balanced. Magplars hardly feel the weaknesses you listed for them, and stamina certainly doesn't have clear weaknesses anymore with proper builds. I expect clear weaknesses and limitations in my idea of balance, and heavy armor snb magplar currently does not have those. Same with stamina.

Except a heavy armor sword and board magplar will have a hard time killing anyone. That's a weakness.

lol

Care to contribute to the conversation?

Minno · August 2016

Still only three ways to mitigate dmg:

-dodge roll (King of mitigation in PvP. Except weakness is RD, lighting staff heavy attacks, soul assault.)
- blocking (requires blocking passives, otherwise costs more than 1k stamina per hit. Soul assault breaks through block, fear stops blocking entirely, there are other skills that players have access to to help blocking. Even Templars do extra dmg against blocking enemies.)
- shields. (6 second duration. Non critable but overspill dmg is crit. Dmg mitigation is calculated even with shield active. Shield breaker and nirn traits help combat this. All except sorc/harness magicka, shields scale off health).

The magplar is probably only using blocking/shields. Just CC us, waste our stam, and bring friends to help.

leepalmer95 · August 2016

Minno wrote: »

Still only three ways to mitigate dmg:

-dodge roll (King of mitigation in PvP. Except weakness is RD, lighting staff heavy attacks, soul assault.)
- blocking (requires blocking passives, otherwise costs more than 1k stamina per hit. Soul assault breaks through block, fear stops blocking entirely, there are other skills that players have access to to help blocking. Even Templars do extra dmg against blocking enemies.)
- shields. (6 second duration. Non critable but overspill dmg is crit. Dmg mitigation is calculated even with shield active. Shield breaker and nirn traits help combat this. All except sorc/harness magicka, shields scale off health).

The magplar is probably only using blocking/shields. Just CC us, waste our stam, and bring friends to help.

Your not going to run any magicka build out of stamina with the correct cp, pots and build.

Minno · August 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Still only three ways to mitigate dmg:

-dodge roll (King of mitigation in PvP. Except weakness is RD, lighting staff heavy attacks, soul assault.)
- blocking (requires blocking passives, otherwise costs more than 1k stamina per hit. Soul assault breaks through block, fear stops blocking entirely, there are other skills that players have access to to help blocking. Even Templars do extra dmg against blocking enemies.)
- shields. (6 second duration. Non critable but overspill dmg is crit. Dmg mitigation is calculated even with shield active. Shield breaker and nirn traits help combat this. All except sorc/harness magicka, shields scale off health).

The magplar is probably only using blocking/shields. Just CC us, waste our stam, and bring friends to help.

Your not going to run any magicka build out of stamina with the correct cp, pots and build.

Then it's time everyone goes to Azura star where CP isn't inflating the fights.

Rage_Killin · August 2016

Haha, I was fighting on Alissia bridge yesterday and I came across a magic heavy armor blazing sheild Templar. I'm only 215cp, (531 magplar)I attacked him and got him down to half health he cc broke>one breath of life> blazing shield> and I couldn't do nothing to him. He stood there and blocked. I stopped attacking him and he still stood there and blocked. I put my weapon away and just gave up. No point in attacking this cancer... Right? He then proceeded to jab spam Me, it tickled...lmfao. No damage at all. I healed everyone of his attacks and I'm a nightblade. I stood there spamming vigor. Don't even bother with these tanks they just wanna block all day so much fun!.... Right.

CapuchinSeven · August 2016

Vaoh wrote: »

Sharpened is the go-to trait for doing damage in PvP.

It has a flat value, and hurts Light armor users much more than Medium/Heavy armor users.

What you are noticing is that for Magicka classes, Light armor gives the better damage while Heavy armor provides the true tankiness. On Stamina specs, Medium armor is enough to get both great damage and tankiness, but you can still pick Heavy armor to be a real tank. (just another reason why Stamina is much better and the meta this patch).

Magicka Templars are plain imbalanced altogether. Too strong. It is why you see them everywhere. Heavy armor+Magicka Templar has been referred to as the cancer of PvP lately as well because of how tanky they can get.

Not sure why but I have doubts they will get nerfed at all, and if they do it will not solve anything and serve to hurt PvE for no reason.... more fun to not think about balancing atm.

Still it is at least better than it was prior to Dark Brotherhood!

Honestly, I see way WAY more perma dodge rolling, 20% dodge chance, perma CC breaking 2 handed kill you in 3 hits spam stamina builds.