Mayrael wrote: »

While playing stamina build your first reaction when your health goes down is to roll, heal, roll and youre screwed if someone will use RD on you, and this is the direction from all the hate comes. I play always magica and never, literaly never (atleast I dont remember) died from this skill in 1v1. Even in situations when im outnumbered I need to be under great presure to die because of it. Why? Because magica toons have to use other defensive strategies as roll dodge is to expenisve for them, and gues what? That "Other" strategies work very well against RD. Its stamina meta who refuses to learn other ways of defense as it would require to use some defensive skills on their bars - in addition to vigor ofc (well TBH there is so many stam users in cyro that know how to defend against RD that im rly surpised how much hate this skill gets here). On my sorc I kill roll dodge/reflect users much faster and easier than on my templar and I enjoy it with sadistic pleasure (yup magica sorc still owns, its freakin amazing TBH with negate brought back to what it used be). You can nerf this skill but untill you will learn how to defend your self better, not just roll dodgin, you will still die over and over as the problem lies not in the skill but in brainless mashing dodge button.

Nobody is complaining about this skill 1v1. People don't like that a Templar can sit back behind his zerg out of gap closer range and spam an execute. The range should be reduced so that Jesus beamers have to actually be in the battle to score kills.

mDK by the way, so not roll dodgin

Mayrael wrote: »

While playing stamina build your first reaction when your health goes down is to roll, heal, roll and youre screwed if someone will use RD on you, and this is the direction from all the hate comes. I play always magica and never, literaly never (atleast I dont remember) died from this skill in 1v1. Even in situations when im outnumbered I need to be under great presure to die because of it. Why? Because magica toons have to use other defensive strategies as roll dodge is to expenisve for them, and gues what? That "Other" strategies work very well against RD. Its stamina meta who refuses to learn other ways of defense as it would require to use some defensive skills on their bars - in addition to vigor ofc (well TBH there is so many stam users in cyro that know how to defend against RD that im rly surpised how much hate this skill gets here). On my sorc I kill roll dodge/reflect users much faster and easier than on my templar and I enjoy it with sadistic pleasure (yup magica sorc still owns, its freakin amazing TBH with negate brought back to what it used be). You can nerf this skill but untill you will learn how to defend your self better, not just roll dodgin, you will still die over and over as the problem lies not in the skill but in brainless mashing dodge button.

Nobody's really complaining about this skill in 1v1 settings....
Jesus Beam spammers are usually found behind the line of scrimmage (A wall of nightblades, DK and sorcs).

soll wrote: »

PURPLE245 wrote: »

if RD was not soo strong why does every damn Templar spam it? and not even use it for what its made for?

because it's execute and it's not instant

sure, there are some (a lot) of templars, who doing it way ahead, but purpose of it to start beaming same time when teammates are doing damage to target, so the second target reaches 50%> health, the main damage releases.

IMO it's not overpowered. good point was about parma-roll-dodgers.
and btw: how many people complaining on NB gapcloser which can hit up to 14k?

There is actually an initial tick as soon as you start Jesus Beam.
Seriously, you have to be blind to not notice this.

Take a look next time you beam someone that is sitting under 15% health.. it's pretty much a guaranteed instant kill (no need to channel the beam!), unless he has some kind of healing over time fighting the beam.

sluice wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

Anyone who is stamina, and truly believes that any magicka class skills need a nerf of any kind is just plain crazy If anything needs a nerf its 2h, and stamina altogether imho

RD is fine, I don't get why people complain about it so much. Its part of being a templar, just like the annoying cloak and fear of nb's or the DK flappy flappy wings which are stupidly annoying.

RD may state that it is a finisher from 50% but it really does not work that way, it never finishes anybody off at 50%, perhaps if they were naked and afk it might... Templars only have 2 skill trees dedicated to damage, and even within those trees many of the skills aren't truly damage skills, so please stop trying to get our useful skills turned to crap please

I'm sorry but if you think that Magicka Templar needs more damage skills.... You need to learn a bit more about your class.
(Yeah sure... let's remove their Purify, their free stamina+heal, their healing bots, etc. to give them other damage tools... that would be such a huge nerf to them, it would kill the class).

Magplar DPS are really really strong at the moment. Even without Jesus Beam.

Nobody is really complaining about the scaling from 50%...
It's a mixture of element that makes it OP:
-Range
-Non-dodgeable
-Scaling from 50%
-Initial Tick Damage

I, for one, do not want to ruin Radiant Destruction. I just want to see it Tone down. Most importantly, I want to see the spammers gone. It's not normal to get jesus beam spammed so often from people behind the battle while you are fighting others. It's plain stupid and it's plaguing PvP right now.

A simple range nerf is the solution.

What else is not normal is to not be able to gap close on someone beaming your from 40m away.


I think all other nerf are irrelevant to the topic.

I have 6 max level templars, and have played templar since the game began and so I do not believe that I need to learn more about my class at all. I never said that templars need more damage skills, I was just stating that other classes have more than we do, and that one of our main ones does not need to be nerfed at all, and it would actually harm our class if they were to be. I personally don't think I have ever been killed by RD in pvp. I only really get killed in pvp by 2h stamina people. They are the main issue in pvp right now, not RD. If RD needs a nerf, then all stamina classes need a bigger one.

I personally would not care if the range was reduced, as I tend to start most fights with toppling charge and remain close range, as do other templars that I know, but as a channelled skill which forces you to be rooted to the spot and therefore leaves you vulnerable, I believe (apart from perhaps the range) it is fine how it is.

SadieJoan wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

Anyone who is stamina, and truly believes that any magicka class skills need a nerf of any kind is just plain crazy If anything needs a nerf its 2h, and stamina altogether imho

RD is fine, I don't get why people complain about it so much. Its part of being a templar, just like the annoying cloak and fear of nb's or the DK flappy flappy wings which are stupidly annoying.

RD may state that it is a finisher from 50% but it really does not work that way, it never finishes anybody off at 50%, perhaps if they were naked and afk it might... Templars only have 2 skill trees dedicated to damage, and even within those trees many of the skills aren't truly damage skills, so please stop trying to get our useful skills turned to crap please

I'm sorry but if you think that Magicka Templar needs more damage skills.... You need to learn a bit more about your class.
(Yeah sure... let's remove their Purify, their free stamina+heal, their healing bots, etc. to give them other damage tools... that would be such a huge nerf to them, it would kill the class).

Magplar DPS are really really strong at the moment. Even without Jesus Beam.

Nobody is really complaining about the scaling from 50%...
It's a mixture of element that makes it OP:
-Range
-Non-dodgeable
-Scaling from 50%
-Initial Tick Damage

I, for one, do not want to ruin Radiant Destruction. I just want to see it Tone down. Most importantly, I want to see the spammers gone. It's not normal to get jesus beam spammed so often from people behind the battle while you are fighting others. It's plain stupid and it's plaguing PvP right now.

A simple range nerf is the solution.

What else is not normal is to not be able to gap close on someone beaming your from 40m away.


I think all other nerf are irrelevant to the topic.

I have 6 max level templars, and have played templar since the game began and so I do not believe that I need to learn more about my class at all. I never said that templars need more damage skills, I was just stating that other classes have more than we do, and that one of our main ones does not need to be nerfed at all, and it would actually harm our class if they were to be. I personally don't think I have ever been killed by RD in pvp. I only really get killed in pvp by 2h stamina people. They are the main issue in pvp right now, not RD. If RD needs a nerf, then all stamina classes need a bigger one.

I personally would not care if the range was reduced, as I tend to start most fights with toppling charge and remain close range, as do other templars that I know, but as a channelled skill which forces you to be rooted to the spot and therefore leaves you vulnerable, I believe (apart from perhaps the range) it is fine how it is.

You mainly (only?) playing Templar shows a large biased towards that class.. That is completely normal, so don't take this as an insult, but just a fact. We are all somewhat biased towards our loved class/character... I wish my stam sorc was "fine" but that implosion with Hurricane plus Dawnbreaker are a bit too much.

Anyway, glad we can somewhat agree on the range of RD.

Brrrofski wrote: »

soll wrote: »

PURPLE245 wrote: »

if RD was not soo strong why does every damn Templar spam it? and not even use it for what its made for?

because it's execute and it's not instant

sure, there are some (a lot) of templars, who doing it way ahead, but purpose of it to start beaming same time when teammates are doing damage to target, so the second target reaches 50%> health, the main damage releases.

IMO it's not overpowered. good point was about parma-roll-dodgers.
and btw: how many people complaining on NB gapcloser which can hit up to 14k?

Ambush does not hit for 14k. Ever.

Even if you were naked

timidobserver wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I QQ being thrown at them.

timidobserver wrote: »

Stam builds trying to vanquish the one thing that wrecks their dodge spam.

The stamina hate is strong in you guys. You don't even realize how magicka players are complaining just as much about Radiant Destruction.


Not that this post or whole topic would change anything...

I don't hate stam builds. I get a lot of enjoyment out of my cancer stam sorc spec(bombard + negate = instant cc death for most Magicka builds.) I just think that the majority of the RD dislike is coming from stambuilds because it bypasses the primary defense of what most of them are running. Unless below 30% health most Magicka builds should be able to deal with 1-3 RDs on them without too much trouble. On the other hand, many stam builds get rekt as they reflexively try to dodge roll out of the RD.

I play magica and stam everything. Magics templar has my highest pvp rank. I still think it's too potent as it is. Nothing to do with dodge rolls.

Range reduction would be fine by me because guess what, I use it at the right time and that's usually as a result of me actually being involved in a fight.

Magicka Templar feels like at the top of the pyramid right now.
Since last month, I considered my Magplar my main and I was impossible to kill.
I also never really cared for Radiant Destruction on me as it's so simple to keep yourself full health with this class.
Anyway it's great fun and I encourage people to give that class a try. But please for the love of the 9 divines don't become a jesus beam spammer.


Back on topic: Reduce that Jesus Beam range!

maxjapank wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

You mainly (only?) playing Templar shows a large biased towards that class.. That is completely normal, so don't take this as an insult, but just a fact. We are all somewhat biased towards our loved class/character... !

Actually, that attitude is very insulting. So what if we choose to play one class that we love? What that means is that we are fully invested in making sure the class excels for us in both pvp and pve. It isn't us wanting to be better than others. It's just us not wanting to be gimped because those who don't really play the class that much don't know any better.

Passionate Magicka Templar's keep playing the class patch after patch. We don't switch to Stam because it is flavor of the month. Not to mention throwing in the towel for other classes.

Reducing the range of RD to gap closers such as Crit Charge is an acceptable change. It doesn't gimp us in pve or pvp.

Why is it very insulting to see that someone's opinions are biased because of X?
Please enlighten me.

I have nothing what so ever with people sticking with the same class. It's their right and I respect that.

Not sure were you are going with "us waiting to be better than others"? You sound a bit on the defensive... Not sure for what reason.

FYI, I want all classes to be as even as possible and trust me when I say that Jesus Beam is not the only nerf I'm calling for.
It's one of the biggest issue in PvP right now, but certainly not the only one. This thread is not the place to talk about these other changes.

PS: Reducing the range of Radiant Destruction is considered a nerf. Not sure why you voted "No, RD doesn't need a nerf and this is why:"

maxjapank wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

You mainly (only?) playing Templar shows a large biased towards that class.. That is completely normal, so don't take this as an insult, but just a fact. We are all somewhat biased towards our loved class/character... !

Actually, that attitude is very insulting. So what if we choose to play one class that we love? What that means is that we are fully invested in making sure the class excels for us in both pvp and pve. It isn't us wanting to be better than others. It's just us not wanting to be gimped because those who don't really play the class that much don't know any better.

Passionate Magicka Templar's keep playing the class patch after patch. We don't switch to Stam because it is flavor of the month. Not to mention throwing in the towel for other classes.

Reducing the range of RD to gap closers such as Crit Charge is an acceptable change. It doesn't gimp us in pve or pvp.

Why is it very insulting to see that someone's opinions are biased because of X?
Please enlighten me.

I have nothing what so ever with people sticking with the same class. It's their right and I respect that.

Not sure were you are going with "us waiting to be better than others"? You sound a bit on the defensive... Not sure for what reason.

FYI, I want all classes to be as even as possible and trust me when I say that Jesus Beam is not the only nerf I'm calling for.
It's one of the biggest issue in PvP right now, but certainly not the only one. This thread is not the place to talk about these other changes.

PS: Reducing the range of Radiant Destruction is considered a nerf. Not sure why you voted "No, RD doesn't need a nerf and this is why:"

I voted no because I don't believe RD needs a nerf at all. But I have willing to accept a slight range nerf to appease the masses. But that's it. Get it?

As for bias, it's so easy to claim bias when someone's opinion is different from yours. So you attempt to discredit that person. We aren't biased. We just play a class day in and day out. And we know what it takes for us to be successful.

Just don't come in here and expect to claim someone is biased for playing only one class. So freaking what.

I don't attempt to discredit your opinion on templars.

I do think you are biased (even though my initial message was not aimed at you)

I do think that most people are biased (toward the class they play most and love). It's in the human nature.

I am also biased towards some things in this game and in life in general! (I'm human, eh!)
But I am also open minded and I do grow and change my opinion base on facts.
(Before you take this as an insult: I am not saying you are not open-minded. By agreeing to lower the range you are proving that you are. Thank you)

sluice wrote: »

Nobody's really complaining about this skill in 1v1 settings....
Jesus Beam spammers are usually found behind the line of scrimmage (A wall of nightblades, DK and sorcs).

This is something practically everyone that wants RD nerfed, range or otherwise, is in full agreement of. And why is that do you think? Because of all perma CCs that Templars are hands down most vulnerable to? Because your gap closers render RD practically useless in that scenario? Because you're able to interupt and one or two shoot the templar?

So if the range of RD is nerfed to within your particular gap closer of choice, tell me what happens in that scenario. The Templar gets gap closed by 5 people and then what? She/he gets wrecked within one second, and in your mind that's when RD and Templars are fine and in a good place?

No matter why, you want to reshape a ranged execute skill to suit the scenario you all claim not presenting any kind of problem.

Can I please have all skills that present any kind of problem to me nerfed and reshaped to a state where they are no problem at all to me too? I want all Sorc skills to be within my gapcloser range too as I want all bow skills to be within my gapcloser range too.

Maybe RD should have the range reduced to 18m and the damage doubled from 25% and the animation which can't be cancelled removed. That way RD would be no problem at range but a problem up close as it after all is suppose to be an execute.

My first char is a templar... Never once have used RD or RO... Will continue to never use it, it's for pvp newbs or pve. That having been said, I say bring it on. If scrubs want to highlight their inability to realize what an execute is for, target them and obliterate them. I say keep it as is... I don't need the help.

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Alright, Wrobel, c'mon gtfo. You're fooling no one.

Protect this house, yo!

If it just calculated the damage bonus based on target health on first tick I'd be fine with it. Hate that you can hit someone at 60 percent health on the first tick and get a tick or two of execute on them.

I have two max level magicka templars that i play often (well one is really my main crafter now) and i love the Templar class but with that said RD does need to be changed a bit. The only real change that needs to be done is it will never hit for execution damage if started on a target above 50% health... They can still keep the hard hitting damage the way it is if it is casted on a player below 50% health.

I honestly believe by changing this you will have much less RD spamming templars running around Cyrodiil...


Hammy!!

First things first.

Rd does not require a nerf.

The amount of boom in the stam meta atm is ridiculous. You just salty about the last viable magic class that has any chance at all against your op 2h/bow spam, rolly builds.

Highest range in the game, can hold that 15k bow heavy while stealthed and launch it with poison arrow on top... Ya, my channeled combo spell that self snares is the problem...

Stop calling it an execute. Its not. Its a channeled skill with an execute component. And its not insta anything at 50% I whack away at mobs on my stam sorc with 2h light attack and execute/reverse and execute hits for 5-6k + as a normal attack, same or better with tornado, same or better with poison arrow. All of which are combo skills with an execute component that OUTPERFORM rd. (Execute/reverse is not a combo skill, it just works as good in the same context) i can actually do better DPS spamming execute/reverse than dizzy when not ani cancelling due to the lengthy animation on dizzy..

Nerfing the range is a death sentence for it. It would be unusable as a self snaring channeled skill against instantaneous crit rush dizzy spam, or bombard, poison bs. I cant count how many times I'm snared solid on bombard or talons, over and over, and over... Talk to me about spamming cheesy ***....

Why does anyone care when i decide to use a skill on MY bar? I'll spam that *** 24/7 if i want to. You find it annoying? Good, working as intended then. Does it call a target for the group? Good, working as intended. Does it instagib players at low health? Good, working as intended. Does it instagib players at 50%? No, it does not!. Does it have the best range or damage in the game? No, it does not! Does it tick for 10k? No, it does not!

I use it all the time and its in no way a guaranteed insta kill at any hp%

The stams want it nerfed because they know if they could get to us just a little easier we wouldn't stand a chance against the real imbalance in the game.


Give this nerf rd crap a rest.

visionality wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

Mostly those peeps who on low HP do roll dodge complain about RD. But this is l2p issue.

1) If you are stamina and your hp is between 25-30% DO NOT RUN from magplar. Be sure you are able to charge into him and bash, stay as close as possible, it's easy when encountering the most clunky spec in the game.
2) If you are magicka sorc - blockshield.
3) If you are magicka \ stamina NB - cloak.
4) If you are magplar - blockpurge.

The main rule is to stay close on execute phase to bash immediately and do not roll dodge. That's how you can survive.

EDIT. Complaining about being outnumbered (that allows healers behind spam execute safely) can't be serious. You always have disadvantages when outnumbered: perma snares, tons of debuffs, poisons.
Only thing I can agree with is that RD should strike weakly if cast was started at 50% or higher even if target already gone below 20%

wow .. l2p indeed, @Ashamray!

1) if you are stamina and 3 magplars laserbeam you into death from 3 directions, how exactly will you charge into all of them while you can't even reach them with your gap closeres? And how do you stay as close as possible if they hide in the middle of a zerg and you're solo or in a small-scale group?
2) blockshield until you die? RD can be cast again if it doesn't kill you on the first try, you know.
3) too bad cloak doesn't cloak while you're being beamed
4) see point 2, exchange blockshield with blockpurge

Had a good laugh while reading your suggestions! Guess you're playing a templar and mostly PVE?

I predicted such reaction and added "EDIT" below my post. If you didn't read, I can repeat: when outnumbered, you will die. No matter how beam is powerfull. My suggestions concern duels mostly.

And your're wrong. Cloak breaks beam.

Ashamray wrote: »

visionality wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

Mostly those peeps who on low HP do roll dodge complain about RD. But this is l2p issue.

1) If you are stamina and your hp is between 25-30% DO NOT RUN from magplar. Be sure you are able to charge into him and bash, stay as close as possible, it's easy when encountering the most clunky spec in the game.
2) If you are magicka sorc - blockshield.
3) If you are magicka \ stamina NB - cloak.
4) If you are magplar - blockpurge.

The main rule is to stay close on execute phase to bash immediately and do not roll dodge. That's how you can survive.

EDIT. Complaining about being outnumbered (that allows healers behind spam execute safely) can't be serious. You always have disadvantages when outnumbered: perma snares, tons of debuffs, poisons.
Only thing I can agree with is that RD should strike weakly if cast was started at 50% or higher even if target already gone below 20%

wow .. l2p indeed, @Ashamray!

1) if you are stamina and 3 magplars laserbeam you into death from 3 directions, how exactly will you charge into all of them while you can't even reach them with your gap closeres? And how do you stay as close as possible if they hide in the middle of a zerg and you're solo or in a small-scale group?
2) blockshield until you die? RD can be cast again if it doesn't kill you on the first try, you know.
3) too bad cloak doesn't cloak while you're being beamed
4) see point 2, exchange blockshield with blockpurge

Had a good laugh while reading your suggestions! Guess you're playing a templar and mostly PVE?

I predicted such reaction and added "EDIT" below my post. If you didn't read, I can repeat: when outnumbered, you will die. No matter how beam is powerfull. My suggestions concern duels mostly.

And your're wrong. Cloak breaks beam.

I can read, und bad luck for you - I play a nightblade (and a templar too)

1) well, obviously you die when outnumbered, but many ppl (including me) don't - they evade, dodge, use their environment, put some distance between themselves and an adversary. Most is impossible or next to impossible with RD, even breaking line of sight works caustic at best.
2) cloak does NOT break beam. You really think any NB would worry about RD if it could just be cloaked?

(next you're telling that meteor can be cloaked or that DKs can reflect it )

Well, because its a hot topic and stamina ppl want to be in god mode for 24/7.

---

I really, don't care! what ZOS does to their game. I will continue to play my magplar in cyrodiil, despite the nerf.