NightBlade passive skill Shadow Barrier

GhostShade · August 2016

I would like the DEVs, read: not uninformed people wanting to put their 2 cents worth in, to answer a question for me.

Why is the NightBlade's passive Shadow Barrier dependant on how many pieces of HEAVY armor that you wear??

Are there that many NightBlades that wear heavy armor?? Because 99.9% of the people I know that play NightBlades wear majority Medium. And the other 0.01% wear light armor. Essentially make this passive absolutely useless to a NightBlade.

And if you are going to give the NightBlades an absolutely useless passive, then why aren't all the other classes hindered in suck a way?? Why don't Sorcerers have a passive that depends on how much Heavy armor they wear?? Why don't Dragon Knights have a passive that depends on how many pieces of light armor they wear??

Why is that skill dependant on heavy armor?? If, and that's a big if, a NightBlade was wearing heavy armor that passive gives a relatively small boost to physical and spell resistance. Which doesn't benefit a heavy armor wearer much at all. Now, on the other hand, a medium armor wearing NightBlade would definitely benefit from the increased physical and spell proctection when launching his initial assault. It would afford him extra protection until he can withdraw far enough to launch another assault. As that is what a NightBlade is meant to be a hit and run fighter. Do big damage and get out. Then rinse and repeat.

So why did the DEVs screw the NightBlades over, when no other class has a passive dependant on what type of armor they wear?? And if they have to make it armor type dependant, then why a weight of armor that almost no NightBlade wears??

code65536 · August 2016

GhostShade wrote: »

I would like the DEVs, read: not uninformed people wanting to put their 2 cents worth in, to answer a question for me.

Why is the NightBlade's passive Shadow Barrier dependant on how many pieces of HEAVY armor that you wear??

Are there that many NightBlades that wear heavy armor?? Because 99.9% of the people I know that play NightBlades wear majority Medium. And the other 0.01% wear light armor. Essentially make this passive absolutely useless to a NightBlade.

And if you are going to give the NightBlades an absolutely useless passive, then why aren't all the other classes hindered in suck a way?? Why don't Sorcerers have a passive that depends on how much Heavy armor they wear?? Why don't Dragon Knights have a passive that depends on how many pieces of light armor they wear??

Why is that skill dependant on heavy armor?? If, and that's a big if, a NightBlade was wearing heavy armor that passive gives a relatively small boost to physical and spell resistance. Which doesn't benefit a heavy armor wearer much at all. Now, on the other hand, a medium armor wearing NightBlade would definitely benefit from the increased physical and spell proctection when launching his initial assault. It would afford him extra protection until he can withdraw far enough to launch another assault. As that is what a NightBlade is meant to be a hit and run fighter. Do big damage and get out. Then rinse and repeat.

So why did the DEVs screw the NightBlades over, when no other class has a passive dependant on what type of armor they wear?? And if they have to make it armor type dependant, then why a weight of armor that almost no NightBlade wears??

ROTFL.

First, there are tons of nightblades that wear light armor--they're called magicka nightblades, which is probably the best and most well-rounded magicka class in this game.

Second, there are also a lot of nightblades who wear heavy armor. They're mostly magicka nightblade saptanks. Oh, and magicka nightblade is the best and most viable non-DK tanking class. Magblades are arguably, the only truly viable non-DK tank class for serious content.

Finally, if you are wearing medium armor, then I assume you're a stamina nightblade. As a stamblade, your main offensive spammable skill is Surprise Attack. Which, inexplicably, is in the Shadow tree. Which means you are getting your Major Resistance buff just by attacking. Sure, it doesn't last long, but that's irrelevant because, as your main spammable offensive skill, you will have recast it and refreshed the duration before it wears out.

In fact, most people consider Surprise Attack being able to proc Shadow Barrier to be an unfair thing because it means that stamina nightblades have their Major Resistance buff all the time as a side effect of going on the offensive. DKs and Templars actually have to cast a non-offensive ability to get their Major Resistance buff.

The heavy armor requirement balances things out so that it won't be more OP than it already is on a stamblade DPS while allowing a nightblade tank (who won't be spamming Veiled Strike) to get their Major Resistances for a reasonable duration.

Oh, and I'm speaking as someone who mains a nightblade. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the way it is right now.

Ashamray · August 2016

This guy complains about passively granted Major Ward and Resolve available to others only after slotting and using special skill.
About passive that procs of main spamable DPS ability. Wwwwwooah!

GhostShade · August 2016

Both irrelevant non-answers, since neither poster can read the first line of the post.

And since neither bothered to read the whole thing anyway, here let me make my biggest point of the whole question clear.

WHY IS THE NIGHTBLADES SHADOW BARRIER THE ONLY SKILL FROM ANY CLASSES SKILL LINES THAT IS DEPENDANT ON WHAT TYPE OF ARMOR YOU WEAR??

I that clear enough for you know it alls??

Ashamray · August 2016

WHY IS THE NIGHTBLADES SHADOW BARRIER THE ONLY SKILL FROM ANY CLASSES SKILL LINES THAT IS DEPENDANT ON WHAT TYPE OF ARMOR YOU WEAR??

BECAUSE IT'S A FEATURE. GET IT, HUH?

GhostShade · August 2016

Ignorant two year old please leave the thread as you are doing nothing more than being a troll.

Curragraigue · August 2016

GhostShade wrote: »

Both irrelevant non-answers, since neither poster can read the first line of the post.

And since neither bothered to read the whole thing anyway, here let me make my biggest point of the whole question clear.

WHY IS THE NIGHTBLADES SHADOW BARRIER THE ONLY SKILL FROM ANY CLASSES SKILL LINES THAT IS DEPENDANT ON WHAT TYPE OF ARMOR YOU WEAR??

I that clear enough for you know it alls??

Because like immovable it is meant to benefit tanks wearing heavy. As first person responding to you mentioned there are a lot of NB tanks wearing heavy.

GhostShade · August 2016

That's great that there are NBs wearing heavy armor, but why are they the only NBs that can benefit from that passive??

code65536 · August 2016

GhostShade wrote: »

Both irrelevant non-answers, since neither poster can read the first line of the post.

And since neither bothered to read the whole thing anyway, here let me make my biggest point of the whole question clear.

WHY IS THE NIGHTBLADES SHADOW BARRIER THE ONLY SKILL FROM ANY CLASSES SKILL LINES THAT IS DEPENDANT ON WHAT TYPE OF ARMOR YOU WEAR??

I that clear enough for you know it alls??

First, the devs won't respond to a post like this.

Second, you don't have to be a dev to see the answer as plain as day, and if you actually took the time to read my post instead of venting, you'd see it.

But I'll reiterate: Without a heavy armor restriction, Shadow Barrier would be far too unbalanced and OP.

Why? Because your main DPS spammable ability procs it. So it's up all the time, even with a short duration. You don't have to slot a special skill, you don't have to do anything differently--it comes for free as you do DPS. And most people already consider that to be OP.

The buff for wearers of heavy armor (stop thinking of it as a restriction for non-heavies, but as a bonus for heavies) is so that nightblade tanks who don't spam Veiled Strike every second can get a reasonably long Shadow Barrier.

code65536 · August 2016

GhostShade wrote: »

Ignorant two year old please leave the thread as you are doing nothing more than being a troll.

So... will you please leave this thread?

GhostShade · August 2016

But as I stated prior, it isn't even a bonus for heavy armor wearers(5k ish physical and spell protection is much when stacked on top of 25-30k ish which is the norm for a high level character in heavy armor). Where as it would be hugely beneficial to a light armor or medium armor wearer whose base physical and spell protection is in the 12-15k ish range.

And again it come be to being the only skill in any skill line that is armor type dependant, and hinders that class unless you are in that specific type of armor.

Bakven · August 2016

GhostShade wrote: »

Both irrelevant non-answers, since neither poster can read the first line of the post.

And since neither bothered to read the whole thing anyway, here let me make my biggest point of the whole question clear.

WHY IS THE NIGHTBLADES SHADOW BARRIER THE ONLY SKILL FROM ANY CLASSES SKILL LINES THAT IS DEPENDANT ON WHAT TYPE OF ARMOR YOU WEAR??

I that clear enough for you know it alls??

It's not. It has a base resistance for 2 seconds that is increased for each piece of heavy armor. It's not reliant on heavy armor, it's maximized by wearing heavy armor. You can still use it wearing whatever armor you want and will still get the 2 second resistance.

Panth141 · August 2016

OP, you've posted a query on the forums.

People have replied with sensible explanations as to why this Heavy Armour boost is in place, but you don't want to accept their reasons because they're:

GhostShade wrote: »

Ignorant two year old please leave the thread as you are doing nothing more than being a troll.

...

Their explanations make absolute sense - NBs get Major Ward/Resolve very easily by using their main DPS attack, whereas other classes have to sacrifice a skill-slot for it. Heavy Armour buffs the duration as a nod to tanks, but it is completely effective for a non-HA NB.

Please stop being so unreasonable.

GhostShade · August 2016

code65536 wrote: »

GhostShade wrote: »

Ignorant two year old please leave the thread as you are doing nothing more than being a troll.

So... will you please leave this thread?

Welcome to ignore just like the other troll. Goodbye

Bakven · August 2016

@GhostShade, @Panth141 is right. You've had your question answered a few times but because they aren't dev's you ignored it? Why not just listen to what players who know the game instead of getting mad at people for trying to answer your question?

GhostShade · August 2016

Bakven wrote: »

GhostShade wrote: »

Both irrelevant non-answers, since neither poster can read the first line of the post.

And since neither bothered to read the whole thing anyway, here let me make my biggest point of the whole question clear.

WHY IS THE NIGHTBLADES SHADOW BARRIER THE ONLY SKILL FROM ANY CLASSES SKILL LINES THAT IS DEPENDANT ON WHAT TYPE OF ARMOR YOU WEAR??

I that clear enough for you know it alls??

It's not. It has a base resistance for 2 seconds that is increased for each piece of heavy armor. It's not reliant on heavy armor, it's maximized by wearing heavy armor. You can still use it wearing whatever armor you want and will still get the 2 second resistance.

Even though that is true, and it is 4 seconds when maxed out it still does not explain why that is the only passive in any skill line the is armor type dependant to get the extra bonus

code65536 · August 2016

GhostShade wrote: »

Bakven wrote: »

GhostShade wrote: »

Both irrelevant non-answers, since neither poster can read the first line of the post.

And since neither bothered to read the whole thing anyway, here let me make my biggest point of the whole question clear.

WHY IS THE NIGHTBLADES SHADOW BARRIER THE ONLY SKILL FROM ANY CLASSES SKILL LINES THAT IS DEPENDANT ON WHAT TYPE OF ARMOR YOU WEAR??

I that clear enough for you know it alls??

It's not. It has a base resistance for 2 seconds that is increased for each piece of heavy armor. It's not reliant on heavy armor, it's maximized by wearing heavy armor. You can still use it wearing whatever armor you want and will still get the 2 second resistance.

Even though that is true, and it is 4 seconds when maxed out it still does not explain why that is the only passive in any skill line the is armor type dependant to get the extra bonus

It exists for balance, which, yes, ZOS actually does correctly here and there. If adding an armor check was the way to make this passive work for different kinds of builds, then so be it--I challenge you to find a better solution that would make Shadow Barrier useful for tanks (and all tanking classes need their class's Major Resistance buff--the fact that you think this is useless for tanks just shows that you know nothing about tanking) without making it too powerful for a DD.

And why in blazes does it matter that no other passive uses this particular type of balancing mechanism? Would you rather that every class and passive be homogenized?

Oh, and maxed out, it's quite a bit longer than 4s.

GhostShade · August 2016

Panth141 wrote: »

OP, you've posted a query on the forums.

People have replied with sensible explanations as to why this Heavy Armour boost is in place, but you don't want to accept their reasons because they're:

GhostShade wrote: »

Ignorant two year old please leave the thread as you are doing nothing more than being a troll.

...

Their explanations make absolute sense - NBs get Major Ward/Resolve very easily by using their main DPS attack, whereas other classes have to sacrifice a skill-slot for it. Heavy Armour buffs the duration as a nod to tanks, but it is completely effective for a non-HA NB.

Please stop being so unreasonable.

Ok, please enlighten me because you are evidently reading some that I am not. Because as I am reading it, you say the main two NightBlade attacks "Suprise Attack and Ambush" give you major Resolve and major Ward??

Hrmm, let's see.

Ambush IV

Flash through the shadows and ambush an enemy, dealing 4065 Physical Damage and stunning them for 2 seconds.
Also grants you Empower, increasing the dame of your next attack by 20%.
If the target is a player, they are briefly snared instead of being stunned.

Surprise Attack IV

Slash an enemy, dealing 5262 Physical Damage and afflicting them with Major Fracture, which reduces their Physical Resistance by 5280 for 17.3 seconds.
Attacking with Suprise Attack while stealthed or invisible stuns the enemy and sets them off balance for 4.6 seconds.

So which one of those gives you Major Resolve and Major Ward again??

Bakven · August 2016

Think about it. DK's, Templars, and Sorcs (before the shield nerfs) all had class skills or passives that went to help with tanking. This was just the same thing but for Nightblades. It's no secret that nightblades are the squishiest class. This was just a way to keep them viable and competitive at tanking with the other classes, or it was a way to add a bit of resistance to an otherwise squishy class.

GhostShade · August 2016

I am not saying that NBs are mean to be tanks in the slightest. Nor were they meant to be. They are hit and run fighters that do burst damage and get out so they can do it again.

That still doesn't explain why they are the only skill line that has a passive that is armor dependant.

Panth141 · August 2016

GhostShade wrote: »

Panth141 wrote: »

OP, you've posted a query on the forums.

People have replied with sensible explanations as to why this Heavy Armour boost is in place, but you don't want to accept their reasons because they're:

GhostShade wrote: »

Ignorant two year old please leave the thread as you are doing nothing more than being a troll.

...

Their explanations make absolute sense - NBs get Major Ward/Resolve very easily by using their main DPS attack, whereas other classes have to sacrifice a skill-slot for it. Heavy Armour buffs the duration as a nod to tanks, but it is completely effective for a non-HA NB.

Please stop being so unreasonable.

Ok, please enlighten me because you are evidently reading some that I am not. Because as I am reading it, you say the main two NightBlade attacks "Suprise Attack and Ambush" give you major Resolve and major Ward??

Hrmm, let's see.

Ambush IV

Flash through the shadows and ambush an enemy, dealing 4065 Physical Damage and stunning them for 2 seconds.
Also grants you Empower, increasing the dame of your next attack by 20%.
If the target is a player, they are briefly snared instead of being stunned.

Surprise Attack IV

Slash an enemy, dealing 5262 Physical Damage and afflicting them with Major Fracture, which reduces their Physical Resistance by 5280 for 17.3 seconds.
Attacking with Suprise Attack while stealthed or invisible stuns the enemy and sets them off balance for 4.6 seconds.

So which one of those gives you Major Resolve and Major Ward again??

When you use them you activate the Shadow Barrier passive.

EDIT: I was referring to Surprise Attack - Ambush is not a Shadow skill, so will not proc the passive.

GhostShade · August 2016

Yes, for a whole 4 seconds. Which starts from the time you use the ability. Which by the time the blow lands, and you can get yourself out of harms way leaves you extremely vulnerable.

Again back to my question which no one can seem to answer, and why I asked for the DEVs input.

Why is Shadow Barrier the ONLY passive that is armor type dependant??

Bakven · August 2016

GhostShade wrote: »

I am not saying that NBs are mean to be tanks in the slightest. Nor were they meant to be. They are hit and run fighters that do burst damage and get out so they can do it again.

That still doesn't explain why they are the only skill line that has a passive that is armor dependant.

It's not armor dependant. It just has a bonus if you use heavy armor, but you still get the passive when using any shadow ability. Besides, having different passives keeps the classes seperate and unique. If all of them had the same then what would be the point in having classes at all?

Panth141 · August 2016

GhostShade wrote: »

Yes, for a whole 4 seconds. Which starts from the time you use the ability. Which by the time the blow lands, and you can get yourself out of harms way leaves you extremely vulnerable.

Again back to my question which no one can seem to answer, and why I asked for the DEVs input.

Why is Shadow Barrier the ONLY passive that is armor type dependant??

In what combat situation is a stamina NB not using Surprise Attack once every four seconds? (Excluding those who choose to use Flurry)

DPG76 · August 2016

both of them if you buy that passive that gives you maj ward and resolve for activating a shadow ability , so surprise attack and ambush for example

The buff works even with no heavy armour on thus benefits the NB tank a lot but balances the ward eand resolve if not because it would be OP since light and medium armour have theire specefic benefit

just a non dev 2 cents right here

code65536 · August 2016

GhostShade wrote: »

Yes, for a whole 4 seconds. Which starts from the time you use the ability. Which by the time the blow lands, and you can get yourself out of harms way leaves you extremely vulnerable.

That's... not how you play a nightblade. You don't run away like a coward after you land an attack. You immediately attack again. And again. Until they're dead. With each attack refreshing Shadow Barrier. Of course it's not going to work very well if you just hit once and run. But why on earth would you even do that?!

Nor do I understand why you are so bloody obsessed with Shadow Barrier being unique in its duration being scaled off of heavy armor. Why does it matter? It's a perfectly sensible and efficient way to balance Shadow Barrier, and as long as Veiled Strike lives in Shadow, then this sort of scaling is necessary. Now, if Veiled Strike were to be switched with Blur (a change that I strongly support), then Shadow Barrier can be a long, flat duration that doesn't scale with armor type.

GhostShade · August 2016

Yes, the bonus is what is armor dependant, but the bonus is also what makes it a viable passive. 4 seconds is nothing when you are in upper level dungeons unless you are doing nothing but spamming those abilities and that makes for an extremely boring game play. I am sorry I prefer to add diversity to my characters and not limit them to spamming one skill.

GhostShade · August 2016

@Panth141.

Here is a surprise not everyone has Surprise Attack on their combat bar. Like I said I don't like to pigeon hole myself in to one particular set of skills. Hence why I morph and max out every skill in every line. And like I also said if you do nothing but spam the same skill over and over again it makes for very boring game play.

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

Why do people need to be mean to one another over a question ? I can see why the OP wonders why this falls under heavy armor when probably a lot of NBs do not go near heavy in most burst setups . I personally do not know the reasoning but have utilized it with hvy Magblade sap tank in the past . It would most certainly be more useful to myself personally if it was tied towards light armors or medium . I'd be interested to know why the Devs decided heavy was best .

Bakven · August 2016

GhostShade wrote: »

@Panth141.

Here is a surprise not everyone has Surprise Attack on their combat bar. Like I said I don't like to pigeon hole myself in to one particular set of skills. Hence why I morph and max out every skill in every line. And like I also said if you do nothing but spam the same skill over and over again it makes for very boring game play.

There are other shadow skills that are extremely useful that you can cast regularly without spamming to keep a decent proc of that passive. Heavy or no.

Panth141 · August 2016

@Rohamad_Ali

I would *guess* that it was to give a bit of a buff to nightblade tanks, rather than give more of a buff to NB DPS.

OP -

I've never had trouble keeping up the passive - 4 seconds is a long time in combat, and you can activate any of:

Cloak + Morphs
Veiled Strike + Morphs
Path of Darkness + Morphs
Aspect of Terror + Morphs
Summon Shade + Morphs

To refresh the duration of the passive. From a purely PvP standpoint, you should be using Fear as a CC every six seconds anyway, fit another one in there and you're looking at 100% up-time.