NightBlade passive skill Shadow Barrier

Xvorg

GhostShade wrote: »

Yes, for a whole 4 seconds. Which starts from the time you use the ability. Which by the time the blow lands, and you can get yourself out of harms way leaves you extremely vulnerable.

Again back to my question which no one can seem to answer, and why I asked for the DEVs input.

Why is Shadow Barrier the ONLY passive that is armor type dependant??

As a Stamblade, do you need more than 4 secs on major ward/ressolve?

in 4 seconds you can land at least 2 SA. That means that each time you activate a new SA, the clock goes to 0 and starts again.

If you become stronger, each time you use SA, the amounth of health you are going to take from your enemy is bigger, so you will need a few SAs to kill him. And even after he dies, you will ahve the buff on.

The best part of the buff is that any shadow skill activates the passive. So it is perfectly possible to kill an enemy, activate dark cloack to run away and get the shadow barrier buff AND the minor protection buff (which is a hundred times better than major ward/ressolve), besides the invisibility.

The worst part is this: The buff is quite weak. The mitigation you get is far from being meaningful in a metagame based on penetration. Activated or not, does no difference at all.

Now to anwer you the question why is HA dependant, it's just a balance issue. Consider that if you kill an enemy using an assasination skill, you get magicka restored. That's kind of useless for a stamblade, but that's not the main issue. The only assa skill you can use to kill efficiently is grim focus proc. Death stroke is an ulti, assa blade base dmg is rubish, and none uses a gap closer to kill.

juhasman

@GhostShade Close this thread because You have no idea what You're talking about. That passive is well designed. All classes have class skills that gives 10-20 sec major resists buff which is usefull for tanks and if You'll be nb tank then using skill from shadow tree it will give this buff to You for 10 sec. Otherwise if You're for example medium armor user You still get base 4 seconds major resisst when You're using skills from shadow tree which basicly You can spam like veild strike over and over so in fight You get perma resists in heavy armor You cant spam this skills so duration of buff last longer , so no matter what armor type You're wearing You're able to have this buff permanent.

GhostShade

@Panth141

Yes there are plenty of skills in that line you can use, but with it only lasting 4 seconds you basically have to spam that skill non stop to keep it up.

Instead of making the bonus for heavy armor only, the DEVs should making it while wear a 5 piece armor set of any type. So that all NBs except those that make the choice to not wear 5 pieces of one armor weight would get the perk and not just heavy armor wearers.

GhostShade

juhasman wrote: »

@GhostShade Close this thread because You have no idea what You're talking about. That passive is well designed. All classes have class skills that gives 10-20 sec major resists buff which is usefull for tanks and if You'll be nb tank then using skill from shadow tree it will give this buff to You for 10 sec. Otherwise if You're for example medium armor user You still get base 4 seconds major resisst when You're using skills from shadow tree which basicly You can spam like veild strike over and over so in fight You get perma resists in heavy armor You cant spam this skills so duration of buff last longer , so no matter what armor type You're wearing You're able to have this buff permanent.

Wow, really there spanky, how about you jump off my thread an not be an a-hole. And if NBs aren't meant to be tanks then why give the passive at all then?? And people keep going back to it refreshes every time you use the skill. That is great. But again, you are a moron that can't read. I am a player that doesn't like to spam an ability. You on the other hand are one of the dumb people they are catering to by making the passive the way it is. You play to the game mechanic and not the spirit of the game.

Why don't you do the world a favor and take a long walk off a short pier and cool down some there, Internet tough guy.

Xvorg

GhostShade wrote: »

@Panth141

Yes there are plenty of skills in that line you can use, but with it only lasting 4 seconds you basically have to spam that skill non stop to keep it up.

Instead of making the bonus for heavy armor only, the DEVs should making it while wear a 5 piece armor set of any type. So that all NBs except those that make the choice to not wear 5 pieces of one armor weight would get the perk and not just heavy armor wearers.

Again, the buff is meaningless. Does little to no help to the NB playing style.

It cannot be granted on anything except Heavy armor, because anything else would mean an increase on dmg AND mitigation. You could be abe to craft a 5 medium or light pieces set of armor master (for example), activate something like evasion and while using SA get a 10k buff on physical and spell res, without loosing much dmg.

juhasman

GhostShade wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

@GhostShade Close this thread because You have no idea what You're talking about. That passive is well designed. All classes have class skills that gives 10-20 sec major resists buff which is usefull for tanks and if You'll be nb tank then using skill from shadow tree it will give this buff to You for 10 sec. Otherwise if You're for example medium armor user You still get base 4 seconds major resisst when You're using skills from shadow tree which basicly You can spam like veild strike over and over so in fight You get perma resists in heavy armor You cant spam this skills so duration of buff last longer , so no matter what armor type You're wearing You're able to have this buff permanent.

Wow, really there spanky, how about you jump off my thread an not be an a-hole. And if NBs aren't meant to be tanks then why give the passive at all then?? And people keep going back to it refreshes every time you use the skill. That is great. But again, you are a moron that can't read. I am a player that doesn't like to spam an ability. You on the other hand are one of the dumb people they are catering to by making the passive the way it is. You play to the game mechanic and not the spirit of the game.

Why don't you do the world a favor and take a long walk off a short pier and cool down some there, Internet tough guy.

Lol man get some experience before You'll come to forum and start pointless threads like this. Each class have unique passives and not every passive need to be created for every possible build on certain class. Fact You dont see bigger perspective of use for this passive doesnt mean it's useless. This passive is well designed some even saying it's OP. Dont tell me who I am because You dont know me and fact You add me to some randlomy created group of people doesnt make You smarter. If You dont like spam abilities that i think Rich Lambert would have few words for You

Rohamad_Ali

Panth141 wrote: »

@Rohamad_Ali

I would *guess* that it was to give a bit of a buff to nightblade tanks, rather than give more of a buff to NB DPS.

OP -

I've never had trouble keeping up the passive - 4 seconds is a long time in combat, and you can activate any of:

• Cloak + Morphs
• Veiled Strike + Morphs
• Path of Darkness + Morphs
• Aspect of Terror + Morphs
• Summon Shade + Morphs

To refresh the duration of the passive. From a purely PvP standpoint, you should be using Fear as a CC every six seconds anyway, fit another one in there and you're looking at 100% up-time.

Makes sense and is the same reasoning I'm guessing as well .

helediron

GhostShade wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

@GhostShade Close this thread because You have no idea what You're talking about. That passive is well designed. All classes have class skills that gives 10-20 sec major resists buff which is usefull for tanks and if You'll be nb tank then using skill from shadow tree it will give this buff to You for 10 sec. Otherwise if You're for example medium armor user You still get base 4 seconds major resisst when You're using skills from shadow tree which basicly You can spam like veild strike over and over so in fight You get perma resists in heavy armor You cant spam this skills so duration of buff last longer , so no matter what armor type You're wearing You're able to have this buff permanent.

Wow, really there spanky, how about you jump off my thread an not be an a-hole. And if NBs aren't meant to be tanks then why give the passive at all then?? And people keep going back to it refreshes every time you use the skill. That is great. But again, you are a moron that can't read. I am a player that doesn't like to spam an ability. You on the other hand are one of the dumb people they are catering to by making the passive the way it is. You play to the game mechanic and not the spirit of the game.

Why don't you do the world a favor and take a long walk off a short pier and cool down some there, Internet tough guy.

Just did Cradle of Shadows veteran hardmode as NIGHTBLADE tank. The passive is integral part of the build.

GhostShade

juhasman wrote: »

GhostShade wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

@GhostShade Close this thread because You have no idea what You're talking about. That passive is well designed. All classes have class skills that gives 10-20 sec major resists buff which is usefull for tanks and if You'll be nb tank then using skill from shadow tree it will give this buff to You for 10 sec. Otherwise if You're for example medium armor user You still get base 4 seconds major resisst when You're using skills from shadow tree which basicly You can spam like veild strike over and over so in fight You get perma resists in heavy armor You cant spam this skills so duration of buff last longer , so no matter what armor type You're wearing You're able to have this buff permanent.

Wow, really there spanky, how about you jump off my thread an not be an a-hole. And if NBs aren't meant to be tanks then why give the passive at all then?? And people keep going back to it refreshes every time you use the skill. That is great. But again, you are a moron that can't read. I am a player that doesn't like to spam an ability. You on the other hand are one of the dumb people they are catering to by making the passive the way it is. You play to the game mechanic and not the spirit of the game.

Why don't you do the world a favor and take a long walk off a short pier and cool down some there, Internet tough guy.

Lol man get some experience before You'll come to forum and start pointless threads like this. Each class have unique passives and not every passive need to be created for every possible build on certain class. Fact You dont see bigger perspective of use for this passive doesnt mean it's useless. This passive is well designed some even saying it's OP. Dont tell me who I am because You dont know me and fact You add me to some randlomy created group of people doesnt make You smarter. If You dont like spam abilities that i think Rich Lambert would have few words for You

Lol, you just tell me not to tell you who you are then you tell me to get some experience?? Evidently you are another of those that can't read because I have just as much experience as you judging by the character list in your signature. Because you evidently read mine. And since when is asking for clarification on a point of a game that I don't understand considered pointless? If you never ask questions you will never understand anything. And how am I not seeing the "big picture" on this. Name one other passive in any other skill line that is dependant on the type of armor you wear? Go ahead I will wait, cuz there isn't one. So why don't you grow up some, maybe ask a question or two so you can learn something and stop trying to get pissed at people who are doing just that. Trying to understand things that they don't.

GhostShade

helediron wrote: »

GhostShade wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

@GhostShade Close this thread because You have no idea what You're talking about. That passive is well designed. All classes have class skills that gives 10-20 sec major resists buff which is usefull for tanks and if You'll be nb tank then using skill from shadow tree it will give this buff to You for 10 sec. Otherwise if You're for example medium armor user You still get base 4 seconds major resisst when You're using skills from shadow tree which basicly You can spam like veild strike over and over so in fight You get perma resists in heavy armor You cant spam this skills so duration of buff last longer , so no matter what armor type You're wearing You're able to have this buff permanent.

Wow, really there spanky, how about you jump off my thread an not be an a-hole. And if NBs aren't meant to be tanks then why give the passive at all then?? And people keep going back to it refreshes every time you use the skill. That is great. But again, you are a moron that can't read. I am a player that doesn't like to spam an ability. You on the other hand are one of the dumb people they are catering to by making the passive the way it is. You play to the game mechanic and not the spirit of the game.

Why don't you do the world a favor and take a long walk off a short pier and cool down some there, Internet tough guy.

Just did Cradle of Shadows veteran hardmode as NIGHTBLADE tank. The passive is integral part of the build.

That's awesome. You just proved my point. You are a NB tank. Therefor most likely in heavy armor. So the passive works wonders for you, because you get the extended time and don't have to spam the same ability every 4 seconds to keep it active and can do damage otherwise. That is the way is should be for ALL NB makes and not just those that choose to wear heavy armor.

CP5

OP, either you wear heavy armor and need to recast the skill to proc the passive less, or you wear light/medium and spam the skills that proc the passive.

helediron

GhostShade wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

GhostShade wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

@GhostShade Close this thread because You have no idea what You're talking about. That passive is well designed. All classes have class skills that gives 10-20 sec major resists buff which is usefull for tanks and if You'll be nb tank then using skill from shadow tree it will give this buff to You for 10 sec. Otherwise if You're for example medium armor user You still get base 4 seconds major resisst when You're using skills from shadow tree which basicly You can spam like veild strike over and over so in fight You get perma resists in heavy armor You cant spam this skills so duration of buff last longer , so no matter what armor type You're wearing You're able to have this buff permanent.

Wow, really there spanky, how about you jump off my thread an not be an a-hole. And if NBs aren't meant to be tanks then why give the passive at all then?? And people keep going back to it refreshes every time you use the skill. That is great. But again, you are a moron that can't read. I am a player that doesn't like to spam an ability. You on the other hand are one of the dumb people they are catering to by making the passive the way it is. You play to the game mechanic and not the spirit of the game.

Why don't you do the world a favor and take a long walk off a short pier and cool down some there, Internet tough guy.

Just did Cradle of Shadows veteran hardmode as NIGHTBLADE tank. The passive is integral part of the build.

That's awesome. You just proved my point. You are a NB tank. Therefor most likely in heavy armor. So the passive works wonders for you, because you get the extended time and don't have to spam the same ability every 4 seconds to keep it active and can do damage otherwise. That is the way is should be for ALL NB makes and not just those that choose to wear heavy armor.

The passive base features are for light/medium builds and extended to heavy tanks. Just taking the extended time from tanks to other builds without considering consequences is rather reckless. Balancing is more complicated than that.

Taking that Cradle again as an example, i died few times to 95k hits. I HAVE to find a way to mitigate that as a tank. I do it by stacking layers of buffs, debuffs, mitigations etc, or maybe just by moving out of stupid. Nevertheless, tanks invest into mitigation and are constrained on damage. DDs are the opposite. It just might not be wise to give tank toys to DDs. I urge you to have open discussion about these consequences with other coplayers. MMO devs don't so often jump to threads, but you never know when they are lurking .

Xvorg

GhostShade wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

GhostShade wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

@GhostShade Close this thread because You have no idea what You're talking about. That passive is well designed. All classes have class skills that gives 10-20 sec major resists buff which is usefull for tanks and if You'll be nb tank then using skill from shadow tree it will give this buff to You for 10 sec. Otherwise if You're for example medium armor user You still get base 4 seconds major resisst when You're using skills from shadow tree which basicly You can spam like veild strike over and over so in fight You get perma resists in heavy armor You cant spam this skills so duration of buff last longer , so no matter what armor type You're wearing You're able to have this buff permanent.

Wow, really there spanky, how about you jump off my thread an not be an a-hole. And if NBs aren't meant to be tanks then why give the passive at all then?? And people keep going back to it refreshes every time you use the skill. That is great. But again, you are a moron that can't read. I am a player that doesn't like to spam an ability. You on the other hand are one of the dumb people they are catering to by making the passive the way it is. You play to the game mechanic and not the spirit of the game.

Why don't you do the world a favor and take a long walk off a short pier and cool down some there, Internet tough guy.

Just did Cradle of Shadows veteran hardmode as NIGHTBLADE tank. The passive is integral part of the build.

That's awesome. You just proved my point. You are a NB tank. Therefor most likely in heavy armor. So the passive works wonders for you, because you get the extended time and don't have to spam the same ability every 4 seconds to keep it active and can do damage otherwise. That is the way is should be for ALL NB makes and not just those that choose to wear heavy armor.

NB tank is in a 90% time a Magicka one. Thus he uses Light Armor

Otherwise your self heal is too weak.

Bakven

@GhostShade honestly you've gotten the answer multiple times from a bunch of different people. Still not sure what it is you're looking for in an answer.

GhostShade

Umm, no I haven't been answered, with a valid reason, as to why the only NBs that get the bonus from the perk are the ones that wear heavy armor.

code65536

GhostShade wrote: »

Umm, no I haven't been answered, with a valid reason, as to why the only NBs that get the bonus from the perk are the ones that wear heavy armor.

Because they are the only ones who need the longer duration.

The short duration is perfectly fine for a damage dealer because--and I don't know how many times this has been said in this thread by now--you will be casting Surprise Attack so frequently that the buff will not be running out.

Bakven

@code65536 I've just given up on trying to answer him. I honestly don't know how to make it any clearer.

GhostShade

You all keep "answering" that those that wear medium and light armor can keep spamming a shadow ability to refresh the duration. Great if that is the case then so can heavy armor wearers. That still doesn't answer WHY only heavy armor wearers can get the bonus.

Also as I have said before not everyone wants to do nothing but spam one type of attack. That is a very boring fight if you only use one skill.

code65536

GhostShade wrote: »

You all keep "answering" that those that wear medium and light armor can keep spamming a shadow ability to refresh the duration. Great if that is the case then so can heavy armor wearers. That still doesn't answer WHY only heavy armor wearers can get the bonus.

Also as I have said before not everyone wants to do nothing but spam one type of attack. That is a very boring fight if you only use one skill.

Surprise Attack is the stamina nightblade's main damage-dealing ability. A damage-dealer should not be wearing heavy armor because they lose too much sustain and too much damage potential by wearing heavy armor.

If someone is wearing heavy armor, then either they're a tank, in which case they wouldn't--and shouldn't--be spamming Surprise Attack so they need a longer duration to keep the buff up, or they're a damage-dealer who doesn't know what they're doing, in which case what little they gain from a longer Shadow Barrier (a mere 8% damage reduction) is nothing compared to how much they just crippled themselves by wearing heavy armor. Either way, there's no absolutely nothing wrong with the longer duration being for heavy armor users.

And, no, you shouldn't be pressing just the Surprise Attack button all day long; there is a rotation of skills to use. But 4s is more than long enough to keep your Shadow Barrier up while you cast a couple of other skills between Surprise Attacks. The whole point of a main DPS ability is that you're casting it often.

GhostShade

So let me get this straight, because a person CHOOSES to pick a armor set that is completely wrong for a class they should get a perk above and beyond those that actually pick armor that fits the class??

That is stupidity.

And your logic on the other point is flawed as well. You're saying that a NB tank needs the longer duration?? By your logic it is the exact opposite. A tank does what? Stands in the middle of the fight and take the damage and keep the enemy off the high dps producers correct?? Ok, so by that train of thought a tank will always be within arms reach of an enemy, which is the casting distance of Surprise Attack. A medium/light armor NB jumps in does their damage and then backs out of the fight to reset and do it again. Therefor the longer duration should go to the medium/light armor NBs because they are not always next to an enemy where they can cast Surprise Attack and refresh the duration. We're as a NB tank would be.

And why shouldn't a tank spam the ability?? They are already in the middle of the fight were they can cast the ability, so why can't they put it in to the rotation of abilities? Since they have it on their bar already? It just makes no sense that they give the extended duration to those that choose to cripple themselves and not to those that choose the correct armor for the NB class.

That is like rewarding a child for throwing a temper tantrum in the middle of the store.

I am not saying that it should be taken away from them, is should be change so that medium/light armor wearers get the same benefits as well.

And for those that are screaming that is to OP, no it isn't I can't take a Sorcerer and with one toggle ability and recast able ability and have physical and spell protection that is on par with a Dragon Knights if not higher. So we're is the fairness in that??

bowmanz607

Op I don't know what your problem is with a lot of these logical responses and your childish banter. Your either a troll or your understanding of Shadow barrier as well as the practical use of a nb as a class no matter your build is completely lost upon you.

You claim that the duration on shadow barrier is too short at a 4 second duration. As others have pointed out the shadow barrier passive procs off of any use of a shadow ability. As a nb you rely heavily on skills such as suprised attack/concealed weapon, fear, and cloak. Shadow image also has its place.

You claim you don't like to "spam" abilities. For one how could you not spam abilities, especially your main dps, in this game and expect to kill something. Second, once every four seconds is hardly "spamming." Additionally, as pointed out above. You have multiple abilities to choose from so you hardly have to spam the same ability.

I wonder if your not using one of these abilities as a nb every 4 seconds, then what do you actually do in a fight? If your not using your main dps within 4 seconds when fighting then what are you doing? Are you on the defensive? If so, then your probably using one of the other skills.

Further, other classes need to slot a skill or a weapon trait or armor set to get this buff. By all means slot immovable or a weapon trait. Or use the new monster helms and take up valuable slots for other items or use the free passive that is easy to proc.

Let's also not forget that you can also run 2 pc of heavy if you like to increase the duration while also keeping the benefit of a 5pc of medium or light. Or there is the undaunted buff in which you already utilize 1pc heavy which will help. Of course minimally.

Again, and I can not stress this point enough since it seems lost on you in some of your posts, the shadow barrier passive procs on EVERY USE OF THE SHADOW SKILLS.



TO YOUR MAIN QUESTION, why does shadow barrier passive only get a boost from heavy armor and the only class passive that operates like this?

1. A person wearing light or medium will be using abilities much more often from the shadow line because they generally have lower sustain so the extra duration from heavy armor is increased to keep balance.

2. Heavy armor users are meant to be more tanks so giving them a longer duration plays into that gameplay. Contrary to your thoughts on heavy armor, this buff is huge and necessary for many tank build a of all classes. This is even more true in pvp where most people run around with Sharpened weapons and armor debuffs which takes 35k mitigation to 25k no problem. It is a passive that offsets debuffs and traits.

3. Nb has this passive and other don't because not every class is supposed to be the same. Not every class is suppose to have the same type of passive in a different way. This is unique to the nb. Just as other classes have unique passives to their own classes.

bowmanz607

GhostShade wrote: »

So let me get this straight, because a person CHOOSES to pick a armor set that is completely wrong for a class they should get a perk above and beyond those that actually pick armor that fits the class??

That is stupidity.

And your logic on the other point is flawed as well. You're saying that a NB tank needs the longer duration?? By your logic it is the exact opposite. A tank does what? Stands in the middle of the fight and take the damage and keep the enemy off the high dps producers correct?? Ok, so by that train of thought a tank will always be within arms reach of an enemy, which is the casting distance of Surprise Attack. A medium/light armor NB jumps in does their damage and then backs out of the fight to reset and do it again. Therefor the longer duration should go to the medium/light armor NBs because they are not always next to an enemy where they can cast Surprise Attack and refresh the duration. We're as a NB tank would be.

And why shouldn't a tank spam the ability?? They are already in the middle of the fight were they can cast the ability, so why can't they put it in to the rotation of abilities? Since they have it on their bar already? It just makes no sense that they give the extended duration to those that choose to cripple themselves and not to those that choose the correct armor for the NB class.

That is like rewarding a child for throwing a temper tantrum in the middle of the store.

I am not saying that it should be taken away from them, is should be change so that medium/light armor wearers get the same benefits as well.

And for those that are screaming that is to OP, no it isn't I can't take a Sorcerer and with one toggle ability and recast able ability and have physical and spell protection that is on par with a Dragon Knights if not higher. So we're is the fairness in that??

Your logic is flawed. A tank is in the middle using resources to take damage and using minimizing the amount used in abilities. Also, your theory that nb hit and run is ridiculous. Ya maybe as a ganked build, but a nb does not simply unload a few hits from stealth and retreat and go again. Not against a competent player. Additionally, if your not engaged back in the fight within 4 seconds the person you are fighting, if they are partially competent, will be restocked on resources, buffs, up and healed up in that time. So you will not kill them.

Additionally, if you are hitting and running then you are not engaged for more than 4 seconds than you are not in danger anyway and don't need the buff. When you go on the offensive again you will have the buff back up from.your first attack.

code65536

GhostShade wrote: »

So let me get this straight, because a person CHOOSES to pick a armor set that is completely wrong for a class they should get a perk above and beyond those that actually pick armor that fits the class??

That is stupidity.

And your logic on the other point is flawed as well. You're saying that a NB tank needs the longer duration?? By your logic it is the exact opposite. A tank does what? Stands in the middle of the fight and take the damage and keep the enemy off the high dps producers correct?? Ok, so by that train of thought a tank will always be within arms reach of an enemy, which is the casting distance of Surprise Attack. A medium/light armor NB jumps in does their damage and then backs out of the fight to reset and do it again. Therefor the longer duration should go to the medium/light armor NBs because they are not always next to an enemy where they can cast Surprise Attack and refresh the duration. We're as a NB tank would be.

And why shouldn't a tank spam the ability?? They are already in the middle of the fight were they can cast the ability, so why can't they put it in to the rotation of abilities? Since they have it on their bar already? It just makes no sense that they give the extended duration to those that choose to cripple themselves and not to those that choose the correct armor for the NB class.

That is like rewarding a child for throwing a temper tantrum in the middle of the store.

I am not saying that it should be taken away from them, is should be change so that medium/light armor wearers get the same benefits as well.

And for those that are screaming that is to OP, no it isn't I can't take a Sorcerer and with one toggle ability and recast able ability and have physical and spell protection that is on par with a Dragon Knights if not higher. So we're is the fairness in that??

There's a lot you have to learn about the basics of how combat works in this game.

First, if someone picks the wrong armor type for their role (not their class--all three armor types are valid depending on the type of nightblade you are), they are crippling themselves with their armor choice. What does it matter if they get a longer Shadow Barrier duration? That's like saying "Someone who jumps out of a plane to a painful and violent death is rewarded with a breathtaking view of the area." Yea, nice perk.

The longer duration is not a "perk" for someone who plays incorrectly. It's a concession to allow someone who is playing their role correctly (i.e., a nightblade tank) to do the things that they need to do. Going back to that analogy, anyone who jumps out of a plane can be "rewarded" by a breathtaking view, but it's not a very meaningful reward unless the jumper is a prepared skydiver (i.e., a tank). If the jumper is unprepared (a damage dealer wearing the wrong armor type), they'll still get that lovely view--but what the hell does it matter?

And if you understood what a tank in this game does, you'll see why it makes sense. Tanks are not supposed to deal damage. Their stats are put into survival and group support, not damage-dealing. The damage done by Surprise Attack scales off of stats that a tank does not spec into. Yes, they could cast Surprise Attack or some other damage-dealing ability, but they would hit like a wet noodle, and it would be a waste of the tank's precious resources. Tanking in this game is largely about resource management. There are a lot of things that a tank needs to do, and the idea of them wasting their time, stamina, and/or magicka to cast a DPS ability that does a pitiful amount of damage is absurd. Veiled Strike, in general, is not something any tank would even want to use. Positioning here is irrelevant--what is relevant is the job description of their role and how their character is built for that role.

And speaking of positioning, the idea of a nightblade jumping in and out is, well, not how you play a nightblade. Or anything, really. You don't jump in and out. That might sound nice from a storytelling perspective, but it's extremely ineffective in actual combat. You engage and you kill your target. You don't run in and out. If you want to keep a safe distance, then you fight from range with ranged abilities and don't use melee abilities like Veiled Strike.

Oh, and it's 8% mitigation. Frankly, most non-tanks don't even care if they have their Major Ward/Resolve up.

GhostShade

@bowmanz607

While you your points do have logic behind them, you sound as if you are speaking towards PVP, which I could care less about.

And as for you talk about not liking to spam abilities, your right I don't. And it is not necessary to use an ability from your skill lines to kill a monster. For example, why would I spam Surprise Attack which even on a critical hit does at best 4500-5000 damage. When I can use a fully charged heavy attack which can hit from 6500-7000 damage. Yes, this may be the not "playing" to the game mechanics which is all you people seem to be doing and think the game should be geared towards.

You know what, I just can't converse with you people any more. You have you head wrapped so far around milking the "mechanics" of the game for every little ounce you can get from them, and can't step back for a second and see things from any other point of view. This conversation is getting to the point of talking to a brick wall.

You have lost the meaning of actually playing a RPG and are trying to make this into how can I squeeze this much more out of the game mechanic in my favor. This is truly pathetic.

bowmanz607

GhostShade wrote: »

@bowmanz607

While you your points do have logic behind them, you sound as if you are speaking towards PVP, which I could care less about.

And as for you talk about not liking to spam abilities, your right I don't. And it is not necessary to use an ability from your skill lines to kill a monster. For example, why would I spam Surprise Attack which even on a critical hit does at best 4500-5000 damage. When I can use a fully charged heavy attack which can hit from 6500-7000 damage. Yes, this may be the not "playing" to the game mechanics which is all you people seem to be doing and think the game should be geared towards.

You know what, I just can't converse with you people any more. You have you head wrapped so far around milking the "mechanics" of the game for every little ounce you can get from them, and can't step back for a second and see things from any other point of view. This conversation is getting to the point of talking to a brick wall.

You have lost the meaning of actually playing a RPG and are trying to make this into how can I squeeze this much more out of the game mechanic in my favor. This is truly pathetic.

Your wanted an explsnation on why a game mechanic was a certain way. That requires taking the "mechanics" of the game.into account and the practical playstyle of the class. That is how you balance a game. You don't balance the game against players that operate outside the norm or are the anomoly.

You asked why would you use suprised attack over the heavy attack based on damage. For one because of the buffs and debuffs attached to the skill. Also, if damage is what you are looking to, then the best approach would be to weave suprised attack in with your heavy attack for maximum damage.

GhostShade

@code65536

I am quite sure I understand the basics and mechanics of this game.

And what you fail to realize, but seem to want to so fondly remind me of every time you post, is that their are other skills in the shadow line beside Surprise Attack that can proc Shadow Barrier as well. And yes a tank may be devoting most of their resources to damage mitigation, but if that is all they offer to the fight then they are useless. They could use Fear to disperse a crowd of enemies so one or two could be isolated by the other members of the group and easily killed. They could use cripple and slow the enemy, and get magika return when the enemy dies with the right morph.

Again read my post above, I am at that point now. So say what you like call me stupid or what you will. But as I see it a tank with no DPS abilities as you describe them are of no use in the game.

I am done.

olsborg

Wear 2 heavy and 5 medium armor and the passive proccs and stays active 99%+ of the time you are in combat. Hell even with full medium its up most of the time. No need to change.

Draxys

Loooool this topic is useless because it's based on 2 premises:

The first is that you expect a dev to give even the slightest sh!t about responding to you. Devs are an extremely rare sight on the forums.

The second is your assumption that 99% of all NBs wear medium armor, which is actually laughable. You have no clue what's going on in the game, and thus have no business complaining about a game mechanic.

LegacyDM

@ghostshade

How's that bosmer destro staff werewolf nightblade working out for you...

code65536

GhostShade wrote: »

@code65536

I am quite sure I understand the basics and mechanics of this game.

And what you fail to realize, but seem to want to so fondly remind me of every time you post, is that their are other skills in the shadow line beside Surprise Attack that can proc Shadow Barrier as well. And yes a tank may be devoting most of their resources to damage mitigation, but if that is all they offer to the fight then they are useless. They could use Fear to disperse a crowd of enemies so one or two could be isolated by the other members of the group and easily killed. They could use cripple and slow the enemy, and get magika return when the enemy dies with the right morph.

Again read my post above, I am at that point now. So say what you like call me stupid or what you will. But as I see it a tank with no DPS abilities as you describe them are of no use in the game.

I am done.

Uh, tanks do use Shadow abilities. Shades for Minor Maim. Refreshing Path for healing. But not Fear, because as a tank you want to group enemies together, not disperse them. But that's beside the point. None of these are spammable abilities. You cast them once and wait a while.

Veiled Strike is a spammable ability. It's an instant-cast instant-damage ability that is meant to be cast over and over again with high frequency. It's not an ability that a nightblade tank would want to cast. But hey, don't take my word for it--go and actually try tanking and then you can tell me whether a tank spamming a Shadow ability makes sense. The point is, no proper nightblade tank is going to be casting a Shadow ability with high frequency, so they need a long duration.

A melee nightblade damage dealer will be using Veiled Strike, and as that is an ability designed to be cast frequently, it means they will have the Shadow Barrier up as long as they are on the offensive.

And if you're ranged and not using Veiled Strike, you just won't get Shadow Barrier. But that's fine too, since you're ranged and that in and of itself is more defensive than 8% mitigation.

Virtually everyone in this thread is telling you that Shadow Barrier is fine. You're the only one who takes issue with it. Either everyone except you is dumb and blind to logic, or perhaps your don't understand the game quite as well as you think you do.