Cloak - How Do Some Players Manage To Cloak And Escape So Effectively?

Publius_Scipio · July 2016

This is more of a PvP related question. I have always been a NB and for the longest time i remember that in the heat of battle if I cloak near enemies to try and make a getaway, cloak would be breaking because I am near the enemy players.

What has me making this thread is that I have fought some NBs where even if i am on top of them, they cloak away and it does not break. They always seem to manage a smooth cloak getaway. Simply put, even though they may be swarmed, they can cloak right in front of you and they are gone.

My question is, how are these NBs managing to make cloak work so effectively?

Thanks.

Thelon · July 2016

ninja vanish

DPG76 · July 2016

If no one uses stealth detection ability or potion then it's childplay to cloak away from the heat
no one uses any special method to ' manage ' cloak in fact , although there is a minimum distance to respect to stay cloaked and for that wearing medium armour helps a lot and also a few passives in Legerd

Van_0S · July 2016

Rotations
Cloak> jump( repeat cloak + jump )>Double take.

Cloak first then jump and again use cloak again jump backwards or any direction away from the attacker ,and use double take then cloak and jump again.

GreenSoup2HoT · July 2016

Don't cloak when someone gap closes you. If you really need to cloak, cc your enemy first.

Cloak has many issues right now so i dont blaim you for having issues with cloak. All gap closers and many Set's/DoT's and Single target abilities are braking cloak when they are not suppose to.

Some of them have been fixed in pts but not all of them are fixed. Console Nbs gotta wait till next dlc for any fixes

While fighting someone, id suggest trying to stay behind them and attack the players back. This is how an Assassin should play. It makes it much easier to cloak and annoy your enemy.

I've recently stopped playing eso because the cloak issues are so annoying to deal with. Its such a core ability for my nb builds and it sucks its broken.

Van_0S · July 2016

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Don't cloak when someone gap closes you. If you really need to cloak, cc your enemy first.

Cloak has many issues right now so i dont blaim you for having issues with cloak. All gap closers and many Set's/DoT's and Single target abilities are braking cloak when they are not suppose to.

Some of them have been fixed in pts but not all of them are fixed. Console Nbs gotta wait till next dlc for any fixes

While fighting someone, id suggest trying to stay behind them and attack the players back. This is how an Assassin should play. It makes it much easier to cloak and annoy your enemy.

I've recently stopped playing eso because the cloak issues are so annoying to deal with. Its such a core ability for my nb builds and it sucks its broken.

Agree !

Stick to Stam and use shuffle + dodgeroll.

Publius_Scipio · July 2016

I kinda see what you guys are saying. But my question is about the specifics of cloak. How are some players cloaking and getting away all the time even with enemies in top of them?

They obviously are doing something because if most cloak with someone on them cloak just keep breaking.

Dracane · July 2016

NBs have become very uncareful with their cloaks.
Cloak used to be a very skill based thing early in the game.

If you want to know, how cloak used to be, you can try out invisible potions. They break from dots and if for example a Sorcerer shoot a shard at you from 40 meters and you use the potion, the shard will still hit you 2 seconds later and break it.
NB cloak has been adjusted so much, that it doesn't break from such things anymore. You can just cloak anytime and usually, it will not break without being hit by aoes.

However. I see many Nightblades who cloak so predictable, that it's not hard to predict their direction and Aoe through.
But some just cloak and seem to move 20 meters within just 1 second. I feel like Magicka nightblades with concealed weapons and vamp are the reason for this.

DPG76 · July 2016

I frankly don't use anything more than cloak preferably after stunning one and it works just fine to get away in pvp
i even use only 1 piece of medium rest 5L and 1H
maybe it's important to mention i cloak manually with pushing L3 on ps4 and stay that way to then use the abilty and get away
easy cake and i use magicka btw

Publius_Scipio · July 2016

So part of the answer is magica NBs can use cloak and escape better than a stam NB can?

DPG76 · July 2016

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

So part of the answer is magica NBs can use cloak and escape better than a stam NB can?

I wouldn't say that the stam cloak is less effective and i don't know with the recent patches if thing changed for stam users , but in pvp it was harder to manage the sustain of it with stam char because in pvp i use more stamina to free from stun and other effects and dodge roll wich makes it difficult to keep spamming it
for the rest i don't think there's a difference

edit: corrected spelling

Dracane · July 2016

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

So part of the answer is magica NBs can use cloak and escape better than a stam NB can?

Since they have infinite chances to cloak, yes.
However, there is a 100% chance to escape for both and this has no counter.

You must place your teleport twin. Then you just go away and then teleport back after you have created enough distance, cloak and you will be gone for good. If you even have some walls or any obstacles, it works even better.

Cryptical · July 2016

Like was said earlier, cloak and jump helps. Also, detection distance. My crafter, once upon a time a cat stamblade, could have an enemy player ride down the middle of one of cyrodiil dirt roads and not detect me crouched at the grass border. What would that be, 2 meters? Running him as a vamp in night silence, I was the scout that simply could not be detected if I didn't want to be seen.

But part of that is choosing to be in places where others would not step on me.

Lexxypwns · July 2016

Dracane wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

So part of the answer is magica NBs can use cloak and escape better than a stam NB can?

Since they have infinite chances to cloak, yes.
However, there is a 100% chance to escape for both and this has no counter.

You must place your teleport twin. Then you just go away and then teleport back after you have created enough distance, cloak and you will be gone for good. If you even have some walls or any obstacles, it works even better.

There is a counter, don't get out of position, be aware shadow image is down and the range at which they can teleport back and don't get out of position. It's different if there's a ton of cover, but anywhere out in the open shadow image is hard countered by situational awareness

Didaco · July 2016

Bow -》Roll Dodge -》Cloak

Major Expedition while invisible.

I wanted to point out that cloak doesn't break on distance: you could lick your enemy's ear without getting spotted.

Publius_Scipio · July 2016

Cryptical wrote: »

Like was said earlier, cloak and jump helps. Also, detection distance. My crafter, once upon a time a cat stamblade, could have an enemy player ride down the middle of one of cyrodiil dirt roads and not detect me crouched at the grass border. What would that be, 2 meters? Running him as a vamp in night silence, I was the scout that simply could not be detected if I didn't want to be seen.

But part of that is choosing to be in places where others would not step on me.

I understand what you are saying. But like the experiences I have had that I explained in my earlier posts, I have fought enemy NBs that were getting pounded by more than one of us. Up close in your face fighting, not range. That NB right at our feet popped cloak and vanished. We threw out AOE's we ran around etc. Nothing to be found.

If I pop cloak in the same situation it just breaks lol.

Publius_Scipio · July 2016

Didaco wrote: »

Bow -》Roll Dodge -》Cloak

Major Expedition while invisible.

I wanted to point out that cloak doesn't break on distance: you could lick your enemy's ear without getting spotted.

Maybe thats the key, I guess while in stealth they can run like cheetahs far away in time. But again, we are literally in that NB's face hitting him and he just vanishes at our feet.

DemonDruaga · July 2016

Well maybe they are using their shadow buddy to port away and go then cloak, no chance to get them when they use the shadow wisly

Cryptical · July 2016

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

Like was said earlier, cloak and jump helps. Also, detection distance. My crafter, once upon a time a cat stamblade, could have an enemy player ride down the middle of one of cyrodiil dirt roads and not detect me crouched at the grass border. What would that be, 2 meters? Running him as a vamp in night silence, I was the scout that simply could not be detected if I didn't want to be seen.

But part of that is choosing to be in places where others would not step on me.

I understand what you are saying. But like the experiences I have had that I explained in my earlier posts, I have fought enemy NBs that were getting pounded by more than one of us. Up close in your face fighting, not range. That NB right at our feet popped cloak and vanished. We threw out AOE's we ran around etc. Nothing to be found.

If I pop cloak in the same situation it just breaks lol.

I'd have to speculate that none of your poundings were of the sort that DoT break the cloak ability, and you didn't go wide enough in your search. As mentioned, being unseen is a combination of the cloak ability (plus skill points) and the crouch stealth (plus skill points).

2.8 seconds per ability pop, which allows you to lick your enemy's ear undetected. On my cat stamina nightblade I could get 4 or 5 cloaks straight, meaning just about 14 seconds of completely undetectable mobility.

The mobility I had was the slow crouch - minus the slow penalty because of vamp sneak AND the night silence set benefit. Basically full unstealthed speed. Plus if I tossed in a roll dodge at the start of my escape I also got the Expedition boost.

And that is even longer if I popped a blue potion, the immediate resource spike plus the additional regen bump let me cloak.

Then once you get out of detection range - a range which can be made really tiny if you min max for it - you revert to normal crouch stealth and regen all your magicka.

And then there is how you choose to use that mobility.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R1BxRNHVGpk

Dracane · July 2016

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

So part of the answer is magica NBs can use cloak and escape better than a stam NB can?

Since they have infinite chances to cloak, yes.
However, there is a 100% chance to escape for both and this has no counter.

You must place your teleport twin. Then you just go away and then teleport back after you have created enough distance, cloak and you will be gone for good. If you even have some walls or any obstacles, it works even better.

There is a counter, don't get out of position, be aware shadow image is down and the range at which they can teleport back and don't get out of position. It's different if there's a ton of cover, but anywhere out in the open shadow image is hard countered by situational awareness

Then you already loose. If you don't follow the nightblade, it will escape. If you follow, it will escape.

There is NO counter to shadow image. Just live with it. Shadow image works up to max range
It's almost 3 times the range of bolt escape with one single jump and without a direct visual clue. if you don't manage to escape this way, then I don't know.

yodased · July 2016

Can you cloak after drinking invis pot?

Dracane · July 2016

yodased wrote: »

Can you cloak after drinking invis pot?

Don't do that

It's really not worth it.
As I said earlier, invis pots are like Cloak before all these adjustments were made to the ability.
It's not worth drinking one as a NB.

You can only combine invis pots with major expedition and immoveability and maybe stamina, but not sure. These pots don't give you ressources.

DeanTheCat · July 2016

@Publius_Scipio

This is how cloak (supposed to) works.

Cloak on activation disjoints up to a maximum of 4 projectiles in the 1st second of activation. The 5th projectile will still connect and pull you out of stealth. Despite all the misinformation that has gone on in this thread, cloak has always had a 4 projectile disjoint cap.

Multi hit abilities like Force Pulse count as multiple attacks against the cloak, something that most people don't want to admit. As a result, a simple force pulse weave will instantly consume all 4 disjoint charges of the cloak. As such, it is imperative to perform a roll dodge before you activate cloak, as well as switching direction while invisible. The roll will increase the chance that the cloak activates without instantly failing.

However, there are currently a bunch of sets and abilities that are bugged to completely bypass the innate DoT suppression of cloak. This results in a cloak that breaks whenever someone sneezes in the general direction, as the sets and abilities involved are highly popular amongst the general population due to them being good abilities/sets even were they not bugged.

Publius_Scipio · July 2016

DeanTheCat wrote: »

@Publius_Scipio

This is how cloak (supposed to) works.

Cloak on activation disjoints up to a maximum of 4 projectiles in the 1st second of activation. The 5th projectile will still connect and pull you out of stealth. Despite all the misinformation that has gone on in this thread, cloak has always had a 4 projectile disjoint cap.

Multi hit abilities like Force Pulse count as multiple attacks against the cloak, something that most people don't want to admit. As a result, a simple force pulse weave will instantly consume all 4 disjoint charges of the cloak. As such, it is imperative to perform a roll dodge before you activate cloak, as well as switching direction while invisible. The roll will increase the chance that the cloak activates without instantly failing.

However, there are currently a bunch of sets and abilities that are bugged to completely bypass the innate DoT suppression of cloak. This results in a cloak that breaks whenever someone sneezes in the general direction, as the sets and abilities involved are highly popular amongst the general population due to them being good abilities/sets even were they not bugged.

Interesting. So distilling it all, the game still has bugs which in turn make cloak as a useful skill into a crapshoot?

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

Thelon wrote: »

ninja vanish

Crap, he learned the secret

Also some use the new Breton Hero Costume.

DeanTheCat · July 2016

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

DeanTheCat wrote: »

@Publius_Scipio

This is how cloak (supposed to) works.

Cloak on activation disjoints up to a maximum of 4 projectiles in the 1st second of activation. The 5th projectile will still connect and pull you out of stealth. Despite all the misinformation that has gone on in this thread, cloak has always had a 4 projectile disjoint cap.

Multi hit abilities like Force Pulse count as multiple attacks against the cloak, something that most people don't want to admit. As a result, a simple force pulse weave will instantly consume all 4 disjoint charges of the cloak. As such, it is imperative to perform a roll dodge before you activate cloak, as well as switching direction while invisible. The roll will increase the chance that the cloak activates without instantly failing.

However, there are currently a bunch of sets and abilities that are bugged to completely bypass the innate DoT suppression of cloak. This results in a cloak that breaks whenever someone sneezes in the general direction, as the sets and abilities involved are highly popular amongst the general population due to them being good abilities/sets even were they not bugged.

Interesting. So distilling it all, the game still has bugs which in turn make cloak as a useful skill into a crapshoot?

Pretty much. At this point, I'd give it 40:60 odds against cloak working in any mid-large size battle. There is simply too many bugs regarding cloak to consider it a true defensive skill at the moment. The only time in which cloak actually reliably worked was the Imperial City update, but ZOS promptly broke it again in the next update with the changes from purge -> DoT supression as well as introducing a few new bugs typical of a ZOS major update.

The only times where cloak works more or less as intended is in smaller scale (4 or less) skermishes, but in that sort of situation, you are generally more focused on your opponents. As a result, it gives the illusion that cloak is WAI to opponents. Off the top of my head, these abilities/sets are currently bugged and overperforming. I'm pretty sure there are more, but this is all I can think of for now.

1) Any charge ability
2) Vicecanon
3) Malubeth
4) Flurry
5) Uppercut
6) Malestrom 2h Charge DoT
7) Axe bleeds
8) Any of your outgoing DoTs originating from an item set
9) Volatile Armour
10) Sacred Ground

ScruffyWhiskers · July 2016

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Interesting. So distilling it all, the game still has bugs which in turn make cloak as a useful skill into a crapshoot?

So many variables are at play but in general yes. However it has gotten better in that you don't have to mash the cloak button to try and keep it up like you used to have to do.

Stam NB's still have the best escape. Shuffle + sprint to a LOS break is still king in my opinion. Add a cloak to that and it's even harder to catch somebody.

Detect pots, Jabs, and AoE's on highly mobile enemies are the hardest things to evade. Best thing now is probably elusive mist to a LOS obstacle and then cloak. If the player(s) hunting you is good though, you are pretty much cooked.

A big mob of new players will often run right over you and not notice you even if you are snared and cloaking like a snail

dodgehopper_ESO · July 2016

Dracane wrote: »

NBs have become very uncareful with their cloaks.
Cloak used to be a very skill based thing early in the game.

If you want to know, how cloak used to be, you can try out invisible potions. They break from dots and if for example a Sorcerer shoot a shard at you from 40 meters and you use the potion, the shard will still hit you 2 seconds later and break it.
NB cloak has been adjusted so much, that it doesn't break from such things anymore. You can just cloak anytime and usually, it will not break without being hit by aoes.

However. I see many Nightblades who cloak so predictable, that it's not hard to predict their direction and Aoe through.
But some just cloak and seem to move 20 meters within just 1 second. I feel like Magicka nightblades with concealed weapons and vamp are the reason for this.

Potions are also effective tools in this.

Stravokov · July 2016

You want to know how to cloak efficiently? You go magic Nightblade with vampire stage 4 (for darkstrider passive.) You get an extra 25% movement from concealed weapon while invisible or stealthed as well. After that it's up to the player to be tactful and how he uses clock. If you cloak running in a certain direction, turn the opposite way once you go invisible. That will confuse your opponent.

Haquor · July 2016

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

So part of the answer is magica NBs can use cloak and escape better than a stam NB can?

Well... magicka nb are usually running concealed weapon and vampire. Both give stealth speed. So when you cloak its very easy to make some good distance quickly from you enemy. I do find cloaking on magicka easier for this reason.
Stamblade i def rely on rolldodge.

You can also try shuffle(snare immunity) then rolldodge into cloaking which helps prevemt being pulled out immediatly due to evasion chance. It helps.

raasdal · July 2016

Fear+Cloak if people are on top of you, Dodgeroll+Cloak if people are at a range. Nothing more to it really, other than realising what skills are broken and taking you out of Cloak - like ie.the DoT from Volatile Armor (DK)