Auction House

Uriel_Nocturne · July 2016

grom1024 wrote: »

I suggest compromise solution. Lets keep guild stores. And lets add AH. Those who like guild stores will use them, and those who like AH will use AH. We will see what is better in long run for users and in year or two only most popular solution will remain.

But I think that opponents of AH will never agree with such approach, because they will loose in such less restricted market. Some of them are making some money off extremely inconvenient guild store UI (the lack of search function is ridiculous especially when visiting other guild stores), so they would like this artificial barrier to be kept.

And this post shows that you don't understand what actually happens in an AH scenario, nor do you understand the current Guild Trader Market, just like the OP doesn't bother to try to understand it.

Keeping Guild Traders and having an Auction House would only make it easier for players like myself to completely monopolize said AH.

A Scenario:
I could still sell my items in the Guild Traders, but with my already deep pool of funds, I could easily buy out whatever I choose in an AH, then resell it for vast profits in both the Guild Trader system as well as the AH.

Sure, you guys would have your hands-held system for finding what you want, but since I'm buying up all of it and reselling it at an absurd markup, you'd never be able to afford what I sell. But then, if you really want those items, you'd be forced to buy what I have at the price I listed, as there's no way you could get it anywhere else or in any other manner.

People are putting more of a certain item up for sale in an attempt to undercut me and break my hold on the market?
[snip]!!! I just dip into my pool of millions of Gold, and simply out bid everyone else, then turn around and resell it and make my Gold back with a healthy profit.

End of Scenario

That's the big issue with a public Auction House in... pretty much every MMO that has or has had one. WoW, SWG, RIFT, LotRO, all of them have this issue with their AH's, and there's no solution the Dev's can introduce to stop it. Why? The very nature, the very core design of an AH allows this type of market monopoly.

It's this type of unavoidable monopolization that is preventing ZOS from implementing an AH in ESO. So for very good reasons, there will be no AH for this game.

Just because a few, fractional number of people cannot find what they want for a cheap price (when they could easily farm said items at a quite probable faster rate), does not mean that the Guild trader system is broken.

[edited for profanity bypass]

Zerok · July 2016

Makkir wrote: »

Zerok wrote: »

Krym wrote: »

if that stretches your daily allowance maybe a game that doesn't require such a tremendous amount of time to play would be better suited.

No because I believe the game should cater to the needs of the majority. And I feel that, on this issue, my interests are aligned with those of the majority, especially when it comes to implementing antitrust laws within the game to prevent what Makkir is doing.

what prevents you from farming nightwood? Youll come back at me say you have better things to do, because you value the things you enjoy in game subtantially higher than what I and others enjoy. It's the same reason the pve crowd hates the pvp crowd (bc yhe latter cries for pvp nerfs that affect the pve group). You essentially want to nerf our content because its not fun fo you.

The difference here versus RL is there is literally an endless supply of nightwood (respawn times aside) for those who will farm it themselves. Relying on a trade store is called convienence, and as with everything in life, that comes at a premium.

The fact that some players with a huge capital can use their power to control the market to further increase their capital is what we call in the real world anti-competitive practices.

It is not fair for the majority, therefore antitrust laws have to be put in place to prevent this from happening.

You will probably respond something like "it's a game, who cares if there are anti-competitive practices?". Well, I care because grinding materials and over-paying for items is not fun. Yes, you're breaking my fun.

Makkir · July 2016

Zerok wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

Zerok wrote: »

Krym wrote: »

if that stretches your daily allowance maybe a game that doesn't require such a tremendous amount of time to play would be better suited.

No because I believe the game should cater to the needs of the majority. And I feel that, on this issue, my interests are aligned with those of the majority, especially when it comes to implementing antitrust laws within the game to prevent what Makkir is doing.

what prevents you from farming nightwood? Youll come back at me say you have better things to do, because you value the things you enjoy in game subtantially higher than what I and others enjoy. It's the same reason the pve crowd hates the pvp crowd (bc yhe latter cries for pvp nerfs that affect the pve group). You essentially want to nerf our content because its not fun fo you.

The difference here versus RL is there is literally an endless supply of nightwood (respawn times aside) for those who will farm it themselves. Relying on a trade store is called convienence, and as with everything in life, that comes at a premium.

The fact that some players with a huge capital can use their power to control the market to further increase their capital is what we call in the real world anti-competitive practices.

It is not fair for the majority, therefore antitrust laws have to be put in place to prevent this from happening.

You will probably respond something like "it's a game, who cares if there are anti-competitive practices?". Well, I care because grinding materials and over-paying for items is not fun. Yes, you're breaking my fun.

No I won't respond like that.

Here I will reword your bolded sentence for you, "The fact that some players with a lot of skill and good gear can use their power to control the VMA leaderboards to further increase their inventory of VMA weapons and BiS items is what we call the real world anti-competitive practices.

How is my being good at farming any different or of less value than your being good at something else (be it PvP, PvE, ec)?
It is IMPOSSIBLE for me to corner the nightwood market, because every single player has easy access to farm nightwood. it's not locked behind Orisinium DLC content, it's not locked behind a skill wall. Your argument is ridiculous.

An item is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I list nightwood stacks at 5k because I KNOW the shortcut crowd (as I call them) will pay that premium instead of going to farm it themselves.

I mean, it's high school stuff...you can't corner a market really unless you can control the number of those items entering the market. I can't "prevent" other players from farming nightwood and undercutting me.

/lolz

Beardimus · July 2016

I guess this thread illustrates real world issues & politics we see every day, sadly. Some people make crafting their thing, put the effort into farming and sales / buy / sell etc, become good at that aspect of the game, and yet they are called names by those that want everyone to be equal and think its not fair. Despite that aspect being open To all to go do.

Being good at trade is no different to being good at PvP or good at PvE, its a skill and takes effort / focus on that side. Name calling is not required when all these folks are doing is excelling at that aspect of the game.

Anyway we are so far off topic. Bottom line is some people want an auction house, and some don't. Both have their reasons, and I feel those that want a auction house don't always listen to all the other ways of achieving what they want to do. They just want WoW in ESO.

Zerok · July 2016

Makkir wrote: »

How is my being good at farming any different or of less value than your being good at something else (be it PvP, PvE, ec)?
It is IMPOSSIBLE for me to corner the nightwood market, because every single player has easy access to farm nightwood. it's not locked behind Orisinium DLC content, it's not locked behind a skill wall. Your argument is ridiculous.

An item is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I list nightwood stacks at 5k because I KNOW the shortcut crowd (as I call them) will pay that premium instead of going to farm it themselves.

I mean, it's high school stuff...you can't corner a market really unless you can control the number of those items entering the market. I can't "prevent" other players from farming nightwood and undercutting me.

That's not true and you know it perfectly well. I've seen the shortage of nightwood. Only a few guilds are selling those at outrageous prices, forcing players like me to lose my time grinding nightwood just to complete my daily crafting writs.

No it's impossible to control 100% of the market for specific crafting materials, but if you control a fair share of it, you'll have a huge influence on the equilibrium price.

Zerok · July 2016

Beardimus wrote: »

Anyway we are so far off topic. Bottom line is some people want an auction house, and some don't. Both have their reasons, and I feel those that want a auction house don't always listen to all the other ways of achieving what they want to do. They just want WoW in ESO.

Who cares about an auction house? I want antitrust laws implemented in the game in priority.

Makkir · July 2016

Beardimus wrote: »

I guess this thread illustrates real world issues & politics we see every day, sadly. Some people make crafting their thing, put the effort into farming and sales / buy / sell etc, become good at that aspect of the game, and yet they are called names by those that want everyone to be equal and think its not fair. Despite that aspect being open To all to go do.

This is my point. And I really am playing devil's advocate. I don't really enjoy farming for 90 minutes a night. My passion is 1vX PvP (link to my youtube in signature). But I do it because I have found a terrific way to earn gold.

Makkir · July 2016

As promised, here is a general run down of what I have set up to rake in 1mill+ a week
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2968604/#Comment_2968604

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3051936/#Comment_3051936

Makkir · July 2016

Zerok wrote: »

That's not true and you know it perfectly well. I've seen the shortage of nightwood. Only a few guilds are selling those at outrageous prices, forcing players like me to lose my time grinding nightwood just to complete my daily crafting writs.

No it's impossible to control 100% of the market for specific crafting materials, but if you control a fair share of it, you'll have a huge influence on the equilibrium price.

Good. That means it is WORKING.

The problem with your argument, point of view, and lost focus is the line, "like me to lose my time grinding." LOSE YOUR TIME?!?! I apologize that your time is more valuable. I apologize if you don't place any value on the time players like me spend running in circles farming materials. I apologize if you don't want to spend time looking for items that you can flip for profit.

Lol, feel the Bern yet? Yeah that was pun. Ridiculous.

grom1024 · July 2016

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

A Scenario:
I could still sell my items in the Guild Traders, but with my already deep pool of funds, I could easily buy out whatever I choose in an AH, then resell it for vast profits in both the Guild Trader system as well as the AH.

Sure, you guys would have your hands-held system for finding what you want, but since I'm buying up all of it and reselling it at an absurd markup, you'd never be able to afford what I sell. But then, if you really want those items, you'd be forced to buy what I have at the price I listed, as there's no way you could get it anywhere else or in any other manner.

People are putting more of a certain item up for sale in an attempt to undercut me and break my hold on the market?
[snip]!!! I just dip into my pool of millions of Gold, and simply out bid everyone else, then turn around and resell it and make my Gold back with a healthy profit.

End of Scenario

There is nothing in guild stores, that I cannot get myself with grind. And there is nothing in guild stores that is game changing. It is just way to save time. Most interesting items are BoP anyway. So if you buy everything and put to sale, you have only 150 items sale capacity and some character/bank space. This limit your capacity to influence market. I will not come to your guild store, so you will not get any money from me. You will be sitting on the pile of goods spending money on maintaining sale positions. Good luck trying it. You might offer any price, but you could not force people to buy, if efforts of earning that amount of gold are higher than effort of grinding.

Also, note, you could buy anything from AH cheap only for some time. Prices will correct themselves, so the possible margin will be less and less for you. If you sell Ring of Agility for 200K, it will be soon 200K on AH too. Do think that people are idiots, they will see price rise, and rise own prices too. There will be some underpriced items on AH, but it will be rare event. You just will not be able to maintain monopoly for long time.

I have experience with AH in other other game, and prices there fall for everything that is not horrible-RNG-protected or real-money-protected. On average, it possible to get 10% income on crafted goods. When price falls low, people just stop to offer goods. Crafting components are priced according to difficulty to farm them. So economics just levels out.

[edited to remove quote]

Uriel_Nocturne · July 2016

Zerok wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

How is my being good at farming any different or of less value than your being good at something else (be it PvP, PvE, ec)?
It is IMPOSSIBLE for me to corner the nightwood market, because every single player has easy access to farm nightwood. it's not locked behind Orisinium DLC content, it's not locked behind a skill wall. Your argument is ridiculous.

An item is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I list nightwood stacks at 5k because I KNOW the shortcut crowd (as I call them) will pay that premium instead of going to farm it themselves.

I mean, it's high school stuff...you can't corner a market really unless you can control the number of those items entering the market. I can't "prevent" other players from farming nightwood and undercutting me.

That's not true and you know it perfectly well. I've seen the shortage of nightwood. Only a few guilds are selling those at outrageous prices, forcing players like me to lose my time grinding nightwood just to complete my daily crafting writs.

No it's impossible to control 100% of the market for specific crafting materials, but if you control a fair share of it, you'll have a huge influence on the equilibrium price.

But there's the fallacy in your argument.

There is no shortage of Nightwood.

There might not be much up for sale at any given vendor, but since there is an endless supply of Nightwood in the game at respawn points, there is really no shortage of Nightwood, nor will there ever be.

Just because a person cannot take a shortcut and buy a stack of 200 Nightwood for 5k, doesn't mean that a player is engaging in "anti-trust" schemes. If the Trader stalls you have access to don't have any Nightwood, there's nothing in the game preventing that same player from going out and chopping through Nightwood logs and getting all the Nightwood they want for free.

The Guild Traders are nothing more than a shortcut system for people who don't want to take the time to farm it themselves. But for the convenience of not having to farm it yourself, there is a cost. The cost? Whatever that seller believes that the stack of Nightwood is worth.

So no, there is no need for "anti-trust" mechanics to be introduced. That would be absurd. If it isn't available at a Trader, or if it's listed at a price you don't agree with, then don't buy it. Just go farm it yourself and get all the Nightwood you want for free.

Elsonso · July 2016

Zerok wrote: »

especially when it comes to implementing antitrust laws within the game to prevent what Makkir is doing.

I want to just mention that Guild Traders work in your favor on this front.

It is harder for Makkir and his "friends" to collect all the Nightwood so that it can be sold at 5K per stack because it is necessary to run from trader to trader. That takes time. It is hard for a GUILD to own the entire market for an item, and impossible for a PLAYER to do it, just due to the manpower and time requirements. The average player has a chance to get Nightwood before Makkir comes along and buys it.

In an auction house, this is all too easy and one player can watch for and buy items across the entire server. This means that they can potentially pull stuff off the auction house within seconds of it being listed. The average player who is looking for a good price on Nightwood does not even see that listing.

grom1024 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

grom1024 wrote: »

What you are going to do with gold?

They don't have to do anything with the gold. It is a game just to collect it. Some people are spending tons of money on repairing CP 160 gear each week, but to others, it is just a game. ...

Adding AH will not make things too different for those who play trade game, they will have to adapt to new rules and the trade game will be somewhat more challenging. They will have to bring some value beyond moving goods around guild stores.

People are not just moving stuff between guild stores. Trade syndication in the game is already a lot more challenging, and expensive, than it would be in an auction house game. Auction houses are "easy mode", if you are into that sort of thing.

Guild traders are the way the game is. There is no auction house. ZOS has actually said, in public, that they are not interested in doing an auction house. I agree with this and consider this among the best decisions they have ever made. I was onboard with the system the instant I heard about it. It roots the store in the game world. It helps protect against people trying to own the markets by making it so that average players have a chance to get stuff before the "cartels" buy stuff. It limits the scope of any single guild, or syndicate, and makes it harder for any player, or group of players, to set prices. It prevents players from easily knowing the entire market without using outside tools that share information between players (ie: The Undermine Journal over at WoW). It is a wonderful gold sink to remove gold from the economy.

You could side with the game designers and adapt to the current rules, and suggest improvements to that system, if you wanted to participate in the game economy. In this way, we can address the three big problems that I see.

1. The User Interface/search capabilities of the guild store
2. The need to find a guild that has a trader, namely an in-game Looking For Guild function that gives that information.
3. The inability for a guild to be able to have access to a trader due to a shortage of traders.

Beardimus · July 2016

Well articulated @lordrichter have an awesome

Uriel_Nocturne · July 2016

grom1024 wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

A Scenario:
I could still sell my items in the Guild Traders, but with my already deep pool of funds, I could easily buy out whatever I choose in an AH, then resell it for vast profits in both the Guild Trader system as well as the AH.

Sure, you guys would have your hands-held system for finding what you want, but since I'm buying up all of it and reselling it at an absurd markup, you'd never be able to afford what I sell. But then, if you really want those items, you'd be forced to buy what I have at the price I listed, as there's no way you could get it anywhere else or in any other manner.

People are putting more of a certain item up for sale in an attempt to undercut me and break my hold on the market?
[snip]!!! I just dip into my pool of millions of Gold, and simply out bid everyone else, then turn around and resell it and make my Gold back with a healthy profit.

End of Scenario

There is nothing in guild stores, that I cannot get myself with grind. And there is nothing in guild stores that is game changing. It is just way to save time. Most interesting items are BoP anyway. So if you buy everything and put to sale, you have only 150 items sale capacity and some character/bank space. This limit your capacity to influence market. I will not come to your guild store, so you will not get any money from me. You will be sitting on the pile of goods spending money on maintaining sale positions. Good luck trying it. You might offer any price, but you could not force people to buy, if efforts of earning that amount of gold are higher than effort of grinding.

Also, note, you could buy anything from AH cheap only for some time. Prices will correct themselves, so the possible margin will be less and less for you. If you sell Ring of Agility for 200K, it will be soon 200K on AH too. Do think that people are idiots, they will see price rise, and rise own prices too. There will be some underpriced items on AH, but it will be rare event. You just will not be able to maintain monopoly for long time.

I have experience with AH in other other game, and prices there fall for everything that is not horrible-RNG-protected or real-money-protected. On average, it possible to get 10% income on crafted goods. When price falls low, people just stop to offer goods. Crafting components are priced according to difficulty to farm them. So economics just levels out.

Sure, and I also posted that Guild Traders are more of a shortcut for the game than they are a necessity in terms of grinding out crafting mats.

But what you're missing in cutting out text from my original post is this; you're focusing on the individual.

Yes, I can only buy up a maximum of 150 *whatever item* and sell it. But then imagine an entire Guild of 500 members who want to monopolize the *new* AH feature. Then get many Guilds doing that as well.

There would be Guild consortiums forming all over, and yes, they could easily monopolize the markets. It's happened before. WoW, SWG, etc., etc.

[edited to remove quote]

kylewwefan · July 2016

I agree with any thread that promotes much needed changes needed to the current system.

Zerok · July 2016

So much bad faith in this thread. I guess this should be expected because my proposal threatens the market position of the exploiters.

However, I don't like the tone of certain people in this thread, therefore this will be my last post.

Anyway, I believe this thread will be closed soon because of the said people.

grom1024 · July 2016

Beardimus wrote: »

Anyway we are so far off topic. Bottom line is some people want an auction house, and some don't. Both have their reasons, and I feel those that want a auction house don't always listen to all the other ways of achieving what they want to do. They just want WoW in ESO.

I just see these other ways of achieving what I want to do as horrible user experience. There is multiple intermediates between buyer and seller that requires spending extra time and extra clicks. I would rather go into dungeon rather than spending hour on searching traders for iron ingots with acceptable price.

frownsyndromes · July 2016

WE NEED THE GRAND EXCHANGE (no bust seriously easiest solution ever)

AlnilamE · July 2016

Runefang wrote: »

Interesting how only the sellers point of view is represented by those against an alternative to the current system. Buyers can't help but benefit from a change.

Actually, I enjoy the system we have as a buyer more than as a seller. I like keeping a mental list of "to buy" stuff and just checking guild traders for it as I go about my day.

I also enjoy going on a shopping spree every once in a while when I get an idea. Like the other day when I wanted to make a "thieving set" and I ended up running around finding low level Night Mother's Embrace pieces to supplement the CP 160 jewelry I had.

Though I'm also happy when my small social guild is able to secure a trader for the week, as many of us enjoy putting our overstock for sale.

That said, console players would definitely benefit from an improved UI (something similar to the AwesomeGuildStore addon on PC) as well as text chat (which I believe is coming, right?) because on PC, there is always a lot of buying and selling going on in zone.

But IMO, Auction Houses are boring and you never find the stuff you *really* need. Or it's way out of your price range.

Makkir · July 2016

@lordrichter has a better way, sometimes, of articulating points than I do. The only issue in game right now with the current system is the UI. There are some life quality adjustments that should be made as Lordrichter pointed out.

Ulfgarde · July 2016

There needs to be an universal AH. Truth be told, individual guild stores are hell to navigate, especially with a lack of tools used to search things. Even though Awesome Guild Store fulfills that, ZOS should NOT ever rely on player base addons for utility.

But I digress, the entire "Guild Store" idea with vendors is beyond ridiculous. Many guilds are incredibly competitive and place millions of gold in Deshaan and Craglorn just to get a weekly spot. Yes, it promotes hardcore competitiveness, and although I was doubtful of it in the beginning, it should most likely stay. But in a different fashion.

Perhaps, there could be a single AH in towns with vendors where people bid to have a spot? Why don't 8 guilds max bid for reservation in a single place rather than spread everywhere in the game?

DPG76 · July 2016

I think that current guild stores would make even more money if it was centralised , they'll have to compete for prices yes but they'll also sell a bigger amount of stuff simply because the avalebility of everybody in game reaching your products .

On the other hand i also think its just wrong to change the current system because a lot of people worked hard and payed a lots to get to work their guilshop wish i respect , but i find it easier to just consult 1 console instead of travelling all over the world to browse several stores just to compare prices .

And finally its not a game breaker in both cases , so not really important for me to play this game

potirondb16_ESO · July 2016

The biggest issue about guild store right now is the inflation it creates, most people don't even bother about the average pricing of there gear and put it out there for a lot more then it's net Worth especially crafting material ... so overall a global price market would be really nice... removing guild vendore from there actual spot and put it all in one place would be a lost.

grom1024 · July 2016

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Sure, and I also posted that Guild Traders are more of a shortcut for the game than they are a necessity in terms of grinding out crafting mats.

But what you're missing in cutting out text from my original post is this; you're focusing on the individual.

Yes, I can only buy up a maximum of 150 *whatever item* and sell it. But then imagine an entire Guild of 500 members who want to monopolize the *new* AH feature. Then get many Guilds doing that as well.

There would be Guild consortiums forming all over, and yes, they could easily monopolize the markets. It's happened before. WoW, SWG, etc., etc.

Lets take example with commodity like Nightwood. You buy it and post 20K a stack at your guild. I have now choices. I could put it 21K a stack at AH and people will buy, because they are lazy to check your guild store. You will not buy from me because you will be at loss. Or I could post it on AH at 19K, and you will buy it from me very quickly to maintain monopoly. Now I have a good way to farm gold. I just gather Nightwood and sell it to your guild, until your guild inventory ends.

For buying, I will not go to you, because that Nightwood at that price makes crafting writs unprofitable. I would rather sell Nightwood and buy resin or repair kits.

For RNG protected things, I'll sell mine to buy yours. RNG in this game is reasonable comparing to others. So I just need to wait.

The same with other things. If your guild is too greedy, it will be at loss. You actually have to sell cheaper than AH because Guild Store requires extra walking and extra clicks. You might set prices higher with your attempt to get monopoly, but that would only mean everyone will be selling at this price. You could not force people to sell cheap, while you are selling at high price. This breaks your argument. While you do not have monopoly on acquiring items, this effort will futile.

wayfarerx · July 2016

Zerok wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Is this a thing on console or something? I just don't see it on PC/NA. Sure there are large trade guilds and syndicates of multiple guilds and whatnot, but they can't run the whole market. I buy stuff that I think is a good deal and sell stuff for good prices all the time and I never collude with anyone.

It's happening on PC. First material that comes to mind is nightwood. Only a few guilds sell large amounts of those at an excessive price. This is no coincidence.

Zerok wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

How is my being good at farming any different or of less value than your being good at something else (be it PvP, PvE, ec)?
It is IMPOSSIBLE for me to corner the nightwood market, because every single player has easy access to farm nightwood. it's not locked behind Orisinium DLC content, it's not locked behind a skill wall. Your argument is ridiculous.

An item is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I list nightwood stacks at 5k because I KNOW the shortcut crowd (as I call them) will pay that premium instead of going to farm it themselves.

I mean, it's high school stuff...you can't corner a market really unless you can control the number of those items entering the market. I can't "prevent" other players from farming nightwood and undercutting me.

That's not true and you know it perfectly well. I've seen the shortage of nightwood. Only a few guilds are selling those at outrageous prices, forcing players like me to lose my time grinding nightwood just to complete my daily crafting writs.

No it's impossible to control 100% of the market for specific crafting materials, but if you control a fair share of it, you'll have a huge influence on the equilibrium price.

Okay, let's talk about nightwood.

This is a high-demand item due to how crafting writs work currently, and tends to be low-supply since people generally use what they have for their own writs and don't specifically farm it (some people obviously do, as we will see).

I spent 20 minutes this morning hitting various traders on PC/NA looking for nightwood, here's what I found:

Elden Root: Lots available at 20g - 40g each, all but one trader was selling it.
Mournhold: Lots available at 15g - 125g each, every trader had it in stock.
Wayrest: Lots available at 18g - 75g each, with one joker selling at 475g each, every trader had it in stock.
Rawl'kha: Lots available at 19g - 50g each, every trader had it in stock.
Belkarth: Lots available at 19g - 80g each, about half the traders had it in stock.
Orsinium: 18g, only two traders had it available.

I should note that my Master Merchant (tracking my one trade guild and a couple wilderness traders) set the average sale price at 17g each, with swings down to 10g each and up to 50g each.

What this tells me is that people are generally not willing to pay the more than 20g - 30g per piece of nightwood, preferring to stay in the under 20g range or farm it themselves. Sometimes rich folks might drop 40g+ for some mats to complete a writ and be done but this appears to be more rare.

What this does not say to me is that there is any kind of shortage or grand conspiracy to fix prices across the major trade locations. There are literally thousands and thousands of these mats for sale at a very wide range of prices from many guilds all across Tamriel.

Grao · July 2016

Zerok wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

Zerok wrote: »

Krym wrote: »

if that stretches your daily allowance maybe a game that doesn't require such a tremendous amount of time to play would be better suited.

No because I believe the game should cater to the needs of the majority. And I feel that, on this issue, my interests are aligned with those of the majority, especially when it comes to implementing antitrust laws within the game to prevent what Makkir is doing.

what prevents you from farming nightwood? Youll come back at me say you have better things to do, because you value the things you enjoy in game subtantially higher than what I and others enjoy. It's the same reason the pve crowd hates the pvp crowd (bc yhe latter cries for pvp nerfs that affect the pve group). You essentially want to nerf our content because its not fun fo you.

The difference here versus RL is there is literally an endless supply of nightwood (respawn times aside) for those who will farm it themselves. Relying on a trade store is called convienence, and as with everything in life, that comes at a premium.

The fact that some players with a huge capital can use their power to control the market to further increase their capital is what we call in the real world anti-competitive practices.

It is not fair for the majority, therefore antitrust laws have to be put in place to prevent this from happening.

You will probably respond something like "it's a game, who cares if there are anti-competitive practices?". Well, I care because grinding materials and over-paying for items is not fun. Yes, you're breaking my fun.

Yes, we would break your fun just for the pleasure of stacking more gold. I am sorry, but controlling and playing the market in a game is very satisfying, it is fun in WoW, it is fun in EVE and it would be even more fun in ESO if they had an AH... Well, it would be more fun to those players that have the massive capital needed to play the market.

The reason why AHs don't work in games or always suffer the same issues is simple, you can't make playing the economy well a TOS violation, that would be stupid and laughable and the TOS is the law in the game.

Grao · July 2016

Zerok wrote: »

So much bad faith in this thread. I guess this should be expected because my proposal threatens the market position of the exploiters.

However, I don't like the tone of certain people in this thread, therefore this will be my last post.

Anyway, I believe this thread will be closed soon because of the said people.

Wait... Wait...

You do realize that those of us arguing against the implementation of an Auction House are doing so as very experienced players that in other games have indeed taken control over respective markets, right? We are not arguing against having an AH because the current system benefits us, but because we know exactly what we would do if this game had an AH.

Calling us exploiters is pathetic, by the way. It just shows you have no idea what the word even means.

Uriel_Nocturne · July 2016

Grao wrote: »

Zerok wrote: »

So much bad faith in this thread. I guess this should be expected because my proposal threatens the market position of the exploiters.

However, I don't like the tone of certain people in this thread, therefore this will be my last post.

Anyway, I believe this thread will be closed soon because of the said people.

Wait... Wait...

You do realize that those of us arguing against the implementation of an Auction House are doing so as very experienced players that in other games have indeed taken control over respective markets, right? We are not arguing against having an AH because the current system benefits us, but because we know exactly what we would do if this game had an AH.

Calling us exploiters is pathetic, by the way. It just shows you have no idea what the word even means.

Well said, and a fine summation of my arguments, and the arguments of many people in this thread.

Grao · July 2016

Groomp wrote: »

There needs to be an universal AH. Truth be told, individual guild stores are hell to navigate, especially with a lack of tools used to search things. Even though Awesome Guild Store fulfills that, ZOS should NOT ever rely on player base addons for utility.

But I digress, the entire "Guild Store" idea with vendors is beyond ridiculous. Many guilds are incredibly competitive and place millions of gold in Deshaan and Craglorn just to get a weekly spot. Yes, it promotes hardcore competitiveness, and although I was doubtful of it in the beginning, it should most likely stay. But in a different fashion.

Perhaps, there could be a single AH in towns with vendors where people bid to have a spot? Why don't 8 guilds max bid for reservation in a single place rather than spread everywhere in the game?

The fact the game UI is terrible doesn't mean the system is terrible. Nothing guarantees that Zenimax will become competent and actually provide us with a user friendly UI if they decide to make an AH, but having an AH will, without a doubt, allow certain dedicated players to gain near unbreakable control over the market.

AlnilamE · July 2016

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

The biggest issue about guild store right now is the inflation it creates, most people don't even bother about the average pricing of there gear and put it out there for a lot more then it's net Worth especially crafting material ... so overall a global price market would be really nice... removing guild vendore from there actual spot and put it all in one place would be a lost.

I don't think the system creates inflation. I have seen prices rise and fall due to supply and demand.

This is particularly clear when new motifs or new gear is introduced. The "I want it NOW" crowd, will pay whatever the asking price is, then folks that value their gold a bit more will wait for prices to fall or go farm stuff themselves.

Certain min/max staples, like Robust Agility rings are always expensive because they are fairly rare, but if you are less picky, and go for Healthy or Arcane instead, you will find them pretty easily.

The thing that amuses me most is when an item becomes popular and a by-product of people farming for that item just plummets in price. Like when Perfect Roe was introduced. Bait sky-rocketed in price for a while, while fish plummeted. When the tier 10 mats were first introduced in Wrothgar, Nightwood, Voidcloth and Voidsteel dropped in price to the point where it was easier to vendor them. Then people realized the writs were a good thing and they went up in price again.

That tells me that the market is actually working as prices vary based on the popularity and availability of an item.