Remove Racial Passives : Allow Passives Selection Manually

MythicEmperor · July 2016

Other (explaination)

samytheslayer wrote: »

If you want to play a certain race then pick it. I play with a person who choose an imperial for a sorc and he does just fine in all of the content. If you think the passives that your favorite race has are holding you back then you need to L2P.

While you can do the base solo content with any race and play style quite easily, race matters in trials and even vet dungeons like vWGT. If you are running a magic build as a nord, that 10% max magicka loss really makes a difference in your DPS and optimization. People generally won't want you in end-game content where 1% matters. L2P isn't the only factor here, when the same player can be so much better with a different race.

Kendaric · July 2016

No

MythicEmperor wrote: »

While you can do the base solo content with any race and play style quite easily, race matters in trials and even vet dungeons like vWGT. If you are running a magic build as a nord, that 10% max magicka loss really makes a difference in your DPS and optimization. People generally won't want you in end-game content where 1% matters. L2P isn't the only factor here, when the same player can be so much better with a different race.

If that is true, then there's a problem with the content not the racials themselves.
I'm still in favor of reintroducing softcaps or alternatively decoupling resources from affecting damage.

Arthg · July 2016

No

Somebody remind me what RPG in MMORPG means.

Rocket Propelled Grenade?
Random PUG Group?
Racial Passives Gutting?

If you're a minmaxer, change race, problem solved.
If you RP, no doubt you'll live without the tiny percentage racial passives grant, problem solved.

Mettaricana · July 2016

BlackSparrow wrote: »

Those racial passives are part of what makes this an Elder Scrolls game. The races have been good at the things they're good at since ES: Arena came out in 1994. It's part of the flavor of the series, which is what keeps a bunch of us TES fans playing the game.

If you care about that flavor, forget the passives and pick the race you want to play. Racial passives are supposed to be bonus. You can play your character perfectly fine without those four passives catering to your build. You won't be the top tier of your build type, but if you cared about that, you'd have picked the ideal race for its passives in the first place.

Sadly this could have been a thing if zos didn't attach resource max boosts to races and just left flavor things like amphibious swim speed, stealth detection rang, exp boosts? gold finding boosts, food boosts, fire resist, etc if they left that bit removed racial attributes buffs all races would be essentially even at anything they want

Shadesofkin · July 2016

No

Mettaricana wrote: »

BlackSparrow wrote: »

Those racial passives are part of what makes this an Elder Scrolls game. The races have been good at the things they're good at since ES: Arena came out in 1994. It's part of the flavor of the series, which is what keeps a bunch of us TES fans playing the game.

If you care about that flavor, forget the passives and pick the race you want to play. Racial passives are supposed to be bonus. You can play your character perfectly fine without those four passives catering to your build. You won't be the top tier of your build type, but if you cared about that, you'd have picked the ideal race for its passives in the first place.

Sadly this could have been a thing if zos didn't attach resource max boosts to races and just left flavor things like amphibious swim speed, stealth detection rang, exp boosts? gold finding boosts, food boosts, fire resist, etc if they left that bit removed racial attributes buffs all races would be essentially even at anything they want

You missed the point of what he said though. There's never been a "even" build. I promise you, my Dunmer spellsword in Daggerfall was better at being a Spell-sword than your Khajit Spell-Sword. I leveled up faster and had a decided advantage to my starting (and therefore ever increasing) stats.

If you're a munchkin, that's cool, I have gamers at my table who are munchkins, but none of them tell me that the rules for 5e and Pathfinder need to be changed entirely so they can go play an Orc Wizard. They know better. Take a page from their playbook, stop trying to make it possible to munchkin all things and do your due diligence when you're deciding on a character/build/playstyle.

Radburn · July 2016

Yes Remove Racial Passives and Let Players Manually Choose Passives

I made a post that relates to this topic:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/275656/racial-passives-how-to-please-everyone#latest

I feel we should be able to choose a race that we want to play, the way we want to play it by choosing from a pool of generic passive bonuses that will compliment our choice of class/build.

MythicEmperor · July 2016

Other (explaination)

Arthg wrote: »

Somebody remind me what RPG in MMORPG means.

Rocket Propelled Grenade?
Random PUG Group?
Racial Passives Gutting?

If you're a minmaxer, change race, problem solved.
If you RP, no doubt you'll live without the tiny percentage racial passives grant, problem solved.

Unless you're a min-maxer AND a RPer...

juhasman · July 2016

No

Just balance them.

Lord_Eomer · July 2016

Yes Remove Racial Passives and Let Players Manually Choose Passives

juhasman wrote: »

Just balance them.

I doubt this will be ever done

Magicka races are limited to 3 races and we have 6 stamina focused races.

Not sure about fate of argonians.

Jaronking · July 2016

No this is just a terrible idea it would ruin the game passive diversity while making races mean nothing it would just have all builds running the same passives.All stambuids would run ad rush 21 stam Regan and max stamina and crit.Wow good bye build diversity.Everyone has everything all your doing is Homogeneous the racists and passives.

Also un nerf RedGuard @Wrobel .

Lord_Eomer · July 2016

Yes Remove Racial Passives and Let Players Manually Choose Passives

Jaronking wrote: »

No this is just a terrible idea it would ruin the game passive diversity while making races mean nothing it would just have all builds running the same passives.All stambuids would run ad rush 21 stam Regan and max stamina and crit.Wow good bye build diversity.Everyone has everything all your doing is Homogeneous the racists and passives.

Also in nerf RedGuard @Wrobel .

Instead of nerf anything, I suggest to buff every race and bring to balance with each other. I want removal of pasives and allow manual selection of pasive because racial balance is challenging and lead usually to lot of forum outcry..

Small tweaking does not matter for experience players..

Seems like nerf nerf, this game is moving backward instead of further progressing..

Experienced player will start leaving if game is not offering wider contents, stronger builds. Till when anyone can play with same stats? DPS etc..

Elsonso · July 2016

No

BlackSparrow wrote: »

Those racial passives are part of what makes this an Elder Scrolls game. The races have been good at the things they're good at since ES: Arena came out in 1994. It's part of the flavor of the series, which is what keeps a bunch of us TES fans playing the game.

If you care about that flavor, forget the passives and pick the race you want to play. Racial passives are supposed to be bonus. You can play your character perfectly fine without those four passives catering to your build. You won't be the top tier of your build type, but if you cared about that, you'd have picked the ideal race for its passives in the first place.

This. And, to add, part of the issue that some people have with ZOS is that they are too quick to toss lore details aside when making decisions.

Lord_Eomer · July 2016

Yes Remove Racial Passives and Let Players Manually Choose Passives

lordrichter wrote: »

BlackSparrow wrote: »

Those racial passives are part of what makes this an Elder Scrolls game. The races have been good at the things they're good at since ES: Arena came out in 1994. It's part of the flavor of the series, which is what keeps a bunch of us TES fans playing the game.

If you care about that flavor, forget the passives and pick the race you want to play. Racial passives are supposed to be bonus. You can play your character perfectly fine without those four passives catering to your build. You won't be the top tier of your build type, but if you cared about that, you'd have picked the ideal race for its passives in the first place.

This. And, to add, part of the issue that some people have with ZOS is that they are too quick to toss lore details aside when making decisions.

Shall lore to blame?, we have 3 magicka races and 6 stamina focused. No balance what to blame?

Jaronking · July 2016

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

No this is just a terrible idea it would ruin the game passive diversity while making races mean nothing it would just have all builds running the same passives.All stambuids would run ad rush 21 stam Regan and max stamina and crit.Wow good bye build diversity.Everyone has everything all your doing is Homogeneous the racists and passives.

Also in nerf RedGuard @Wrobel .

Instead of nerf anything, I suggest to buff every race and bring to balance with each other. I want removal of pasives and allow manual selection of pasive because racial balance is challenging and lead usually to lot of forum outcry..

Small tweaking does not matter for experience players..

Seems like nerf nerf, this game is moving backward instead of further progressing..

Experienced player will start leaving if game is not offering wider contents, stronger builds. Till when anyone can play with same stats? DPS etc..

Got dam it it should said in Nerf not Nerf I love my Redguards.Even my magic build is a Redguard.

Actually no want you are asking for is making every build to be the same but just a different race that make things worst in my opinion not better.Of everything the same their no point.Racists are better as they are now then with your change.You just make races vanity items while passives all become the same which shouldn't be the case.

Lord_Eomer · July 2016

Yes Remove Racial Passives and Let Players Manually Choose Passives

Jaronking wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

No this is just a terrible idea it would ruin the game passive diversity while making races mean nothing it would just have all builds running the same passives.All stambuids would run ad rush 21 stam Regan and max stamina and crit.Wow good bye build diversity.Everyone has everything all your doing is Homogeneous the racists and passives.

Also in nerf RedGuard @Wrobel .

Instead of nerf anything, I suggest to buff every race and bring to balance with each other. I want removal of pasives and allow manual selection of pasive because racial balance is challenging and lead usually to lot of forum outcry..

Small tweaking does not matter for experience players..

Seems like nerf nerf, this game is moving backward instead of further progressing..

Experienced player will start leaving if game is not offering wider contents, stronger builds. Till when anyone can play with same stats? DPS etc..

Got dam it it should said in Nerf not Nerf I love my Redguards.Even my magic build is a Redguard.

Actually no want you are asking for is making every build to be the same but just a different race that make things worst in my opinion not better.Of everything the same their no point.Racists are better as they are now then with your change.You just make races vanity items while passives all become the same which shouldn't be the case.

I have proposed an idea to stop having future issue with racw balance, there are lot of threads across forum on race balance outcry. It seems you are not reading threads across forum.

Elsonso · July 2016

No

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

BlackSparrow wrote: »

Those racial passives are part of what makes this an Elder Scrolls game. The races have been good at the things they're good at since ES: Arena came out in 1994. It's part of the flavor of the series, which is what keeps a bunch of us TES fans playing the game.

If you care about that flavor, forget the passives and pick the race you want to play. Racial passives are supposed to be bonus. You can play your character perfectly fine without those four passives catering to your build. You won't be the top tier of your build type, but if you cared about that, you'd have picked the ideal race for its passives in the first place.

This. And, to add, part of the issue that some people have with ZOS is that they are too quick to toss lore details aside when making decisions.

Shall lore to blame?, we have 3 magicka races and 6 stamina focused. No balance what to blame?

Lore really says what the different races are known for, and ZOS needs to follow that. Each race can have characters that can do anything, but they are known for certain things. The alliances are split by geography, not racial abilities, which immediately makes it difficult to balance the alliances.

ZOS should not be doing "create-a-race" and make races essentially cosmetic at this point in the Elder Scrolls series. It is too late for that, it really does not fit well into the series, and really it only makes sense if you look at the game from a clinical game play perspective. If you look at the game like the races are more than a cosmetic appearance, race matters.

I know a lot of people are tired of the word "lore", but this is not a first generation game and the series does have lore. This limits how much mathematical game design can be done with ESO, if the company chooses to stick close to the lore. That means that the races will be in the same pasture, but they will never really be balanced.

Jaronking · July 2016

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

No this is just a terrible idea it would ruin the game passive diversity while making races mean nothing it would just have all builds running the same passives.All stambuids would run ad rush 21 stam Regan and max stamina and crit.Wow good bye build diversity.Everyone has everything all your doing is Homogeneous the racists and passives.

Also in nerf RedGuard @Wrobel .

Instead of nerf anything, I suggest to buff every race and bring to balance with each other. I want removal of pasives and allow manual selection of pasive because racial balance is challenging and lead usually to lot of forum outcry..

Small tweaking does not matter for experience players..

Seems like nerf nerf, this game is moving backward instead of further progressing..

Experienced player will start leaving if game is not offering wider contents, stronger builds. Till when anyone can play with same stats? DPS etc..

Got dam it it should said in Nerf not Nerf I love my Redguards.Even my magic build is a Redguard.

Actually no want you are asking for is making every build to be the same but just a different race that make things worst in my opinion not better.Of everything the same their no point.Racists are better as they are now then with your change.You just make races vanity items while passives all become the same which shouldn't be the case.

I have proposed an idea to stop having future issue with racw balance, there are lot of threads across forum on race balance outcry. It seems you are not reading threads across forum.

This isn't race balance its homogeneous all of the passives because everyone would just pick the same passives for rather their stamina or magica. It doesn't fix the issue and just make everything the same but with just a different skin.I don't understand why is that so hard to understand. Your balance isn't balancing anything it just making everyone the same but with a different skin.

Lord_Eomer · July 2016

Yes Remove Racial Passives and Let Players Manually Choose Passives

Jaronking wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

No this is just a terrible idea it would ruin the game passive diversity while making races mean nothing it would just have all builds running the same passives.All stambuids would run ad rush 21 stam Regan and max stamina and crit.Wow good bye build diversity.Everyone has everything all your doing is Homogeneous the racists and passives.

Also in nerf RedGuard @Wrobel .

Instead of nerf anything, I suggest to buff every race and bring to balance with each other. I want removal of pasives and allow manual selection of pasive because racial balance is challenging and lead usually to lot of forum outcry..

Small tweaking does not matter for experience players..

Seems like nerf nerf, this game is moving backward instead of further progressing..

Experienced player will start leaving if game is not offering wider contents, stronger builds. Till when anyone can play with same stats? DPS etc..

Got dam it it should said in Nerf not Nerf I love my Redguards.Even my magic build is a Redguard.

Actually no want you are asking for is making every build to be the same but just a different race that make things worst in my opinion not better.Of everything the same their no point.Racists are better as they are now then with your change.You just make races vanity items while passives all become the same which shouldn't be the case.

I have proposed an idea to stop having future issue with racw balance, there are lot of threads across forum on race balance outcry. It seems you are not reading threads across forum.

This isn't race balance its homogeneous all of the passives because everyone would just pick the same passives for rather their stamina or magica. It doesn't fix the issue and just make everything the same but with just a different skin.I don't understand why is that so hard to understand. Your balance isn't balancing anything it just making everyone the same but with a different skin.

There can be a better way, let lore passives stick to race i.e. swimming speed, lava damage reduction, pickpocketing buff, fall damage reduction, more food time or drink time

And select manually Passives for Damage, Attribute Bonus, Recovery, Defense

This provides fair opportunity to players with every race have their desires offensive/defensive Passives.

It will give freedom to "play with race that I want to"

I want to play a nord but have not rolled once because i like DPS build not absorbing damage fool.

Do not tell me to try Nord DPS there are already threads on forum regretting Nord DPS

dodgehopper_ESO · July 2016

Other (explaination)

All passives should not give you bonuses based on what you have. This in and of itself would greatly balance the problems between races used for cross-purposes (Altmer Warriors, Redguard Mages, etc). This could allow for what has always been the case in past games, which is to say that race didn't matter at the top end, but there was a difference. An Altmer mage -was- numerically a little better than the other races for mage, but you were fine being a mage of any other race. This is not the case in the current game and the problem is with how passives are calculated. Bonus max health if based on a raw number and not a percentage, would be a lot more meaningful for races with bonuses to max health, and it would allow for greater choice.

Kendaric · July 2016

No

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

There can be a better way, let lore passives stick to race i.e. swimming speed, lava damage reduction, pickpocketing buff, fall damage reduction, more food time or drink time

And select manually Passives for Damage, Attribute Bonus, Recovery, Defense

This will provide fair opportunity to players for evey race with their desires offensive/defensive Passives.

It will give freedom to "play with race that I want to"

I want to play a nord but have not rolled once because i like DPS build not absorbing damage fool.

Do not tell me to try Nord DPS there are already threads on forum regretting Nord DPS

You can already play as the race you want to, I do it all the time.
Can every race excel at every combat role/class? No, but neither should it be possible.

Lord_Eomer · July 2016

Yes Remove Racial Passives and Let Players Manually Choose Passives

Kendaric wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

There can be a better way, let lore passives stick to race i.e. swimming speed, lava damage reduction, pickpocketing buff, fall damage reduction, more food time or drink time

And select manually Passives for Damage, Attribute Bonus, Recovery, Defense

This will provide fair opportunity to players for evey race with their desires offensive/defensive Passives.

It will give freedom to "play with race that I want to"

I want to play a nord but have not rolled once because i like DPS build not absorbing damage fool.

Do not tell me to try Nord DPS there are already threads on forum regretting Nord DPS

You can already play as the race you want to, I do it all the time.
Can every race excel at every combat role/class? No, but neither should it be possible.

You can but Currently Passives affects descion on choosing race with class, forum, third party help websites are full of recommendation on builds.

For example Dunmer are preferred for Magicka DK

Redguard, Bosmer for Stamina DPS

Will u rollout altmer as stamina NB? No because it will be poor choice over mage NB.

Will u roll out ORC magicka sorcer, no because stamina offers much better DPS for orc

Kendaric · July 2016

No

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

You can but Currently Passives affects descion on choosing race with class, forum, third party help websites are full of recommendation on builds.

For example Dunmer are preferred for Magicka DK

Redguard, Bosmer for Stamina DPS

Will u rollout altmer as stamina NB? No because it will be poor choice over mage NB.

Will u roll out ORC magicka sorcer, no because stamina offers much better DPS for orc

Actually, I would and I do, because I don't care about min/maxing. I play the races I want with the class I want, regardless of racials.
Granted, I'll never make it to the leaderboards, but that doesn't matter to me at all.

Lumenn · July 2016

Yes Remove Racial Passives and Let Players Manually Choose Passives

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

No this is just a terrible idea it would ruin the game passive diversity while making races mean nothing it would just have all builds running the same passives.All stambuids would run ad rush 21 stam Regan and max stamina and crit.Wow good bye build diversity.Everyone has everything all your doing is Homogeneous the racists and passives.

Also in nerf RedGuard @Wrobel .

Instead of nerf anything, I suggest to buff every race and bring to balance with each other. I want removal of pasives and allow manual selection of pasive because racial balance is challenging and lead usually to lot of forum outcry..

Small tweaking does not matter for experience players..

Seems like nerf nerf, this game is moving backward instead of further progressing..

Experienced player will start leaving if game is not offering wider contents, stronger builds. Till when anyone can play with same stats? DPS etc..

Got dam it it should said in Nerf not Nerf I love my Redguards.Even my magic build is a Redguard.

Actually no want you are asking for is making every build to be the same but just a different race that make things worst in my opinion not better.Of everything the same their no point.Racists are better as they are now then with your change.You just make races vanity items while passives all become the same which shouldn't be the case.

I have proposed an idea to stop having future issue with racw balance, there are lot of threads across forum on race balance outcry. It seems you are not reading threads across forum.

This isn't race balance its homogeneous all of the passives because everyone would just pick the same passives for rather their stamina or magica. It doesn't fix the issue and just make everything the same but with just a different skin.I don't understand why is that so hard to understand. Your balance isn't balancing anything it just making everyone the same but with a different skin.

There can be a better way, let lore passives stick to race i.e. swimming speed, lava damage reduction, pickpocketing buff, fall damage reduction, more food time or drink time

And select manually Passives for Damage, Attribute Bonus, Recovery, Defense

This provides fair opportunity to players with every race have their desires offensive/defensive Passives.

This I like. Every race has a "thing" (that doesn't affect leaderboard or PvP) but every race CAN be designed for what class you want to play. To me balance doesn't mean if you might one day want to compete for top magicka/stamina class you have to choose this/that race. It means no matter what "skin" you use you can accomplish any task another can. If your race puts you at/gives you a (dis)/advantage it isn't balanced.

mildlylucid · July 2016

No

Reading this thread gave me an idea...
Make the racial bonuses flat values that scale with level and make them relatively small.
Means that they're worth putting points into endgame because it's better than nothing and you're probably not short on skill points. Also means their effect is negligible so "play as you want survives".

AshTal · July 2016

Yes Remove Racial Passives and Let Players Manually Choose Passives

Racial are part of ES lore but in an MMO they need to be balanced or allow us to pick the ones we want. If we could pick them it would end the constant moaning over night.

Shadesofkin · July 2016

No

AshTal wrote: »

Racial are part of ES lore but in an MMO they need to be balanced or allow us to pick the ones we want. If we could pick them it would end the constant moaning over night.

No, it would simply bring the Lore fans up to the forefront of the moaning.

Qbiken · July 2016

No

CaptainVenom wrote: »

Gods...

Made my day. There must be something more important to complain about......
Like malubeth set or radiant destruction ^^

KingShocker · July 2016

Yes Remove Racial Passives and Let Players Manually Choose Passives

samytheslayer wrote: »

If you want to play a certain race then pick it. I play with a person who choose an imperial for a sorc and he does just fine in all of the content. If you think the passives that your favorite race has are holding you back then you need to L2P.

if you think racial passives don't make a difference in competitive difference in this game than you need to l2p.

also you know who's a very good imperial sorc? no one.

#racialequality #darkelveslivesmatter

KingShocker · July 2016

Yes Remove Racial Passives and Let Players Manually Choose Passives

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I'm not hosing lore based passives because some players want more options.

that's like saying black people can't swim and white people can't jump. why can't a khajiit be just as good at magika as a high elf or a wood elf just as good at tanking as a imperial?

mildlylucid · July 2016

No

KingShocker wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I'm not hosing lore based passives because some players want more options.

that's like saying black people can't swim and white people can't jump. why can't a khajiit be just as good at magika as a high elf or a wood elf just as good at tanking as a imperial?

If you look at the Olympics you might see a trend with the races that are at the top for certain events.
Everyone can do it, some can just do it better.