Darnathian wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Van_0S wrote: »

@Zheg, @Joy_Division
Don't waste your time with KenaPKK , he's just a troller!Just ignore him.


The solution that fengrush has given, is bad for pve players . Also,reducing the range is laughable in this thread, like 5-10 meters??
What you guys think, its an AoE damage like steel turnado or single instant execute that can be weaved like executioner/impale/killers blade?

RD is a channel ability and the caster become vulnerable when he uses that spell.
Just think for sec, if I cast RD at 5meters, when I am fighting 2 players. One of them will block my RD and dodgeroll or interrupt me , but the other player will nuke me.

So, what happens with this skill, when the range is nerfed, you can't escape from battle because a templar has no mobility, even his defence that is blazing shield is worthless, also once RD is casted on a player, that player can see this opportunity to use his famous gap closer on him because the caster can't do any thing at that particular moment when he is casting that channel ability.

Wait - how or why is this bad for PvErs? Why would I specifically detail solutions in those posts with phrases like 'so it doesnt impact PVE negatively' only to have you come say my solution is bad for PVE?

Zheg, and Joy_Division both agreed on this point being unfair.


I think this is where the skill balance starts at. Honestly - its really for your benefit templars. This skill will get nerfed worse if you dont try to get on board with some sort of fix. The amount of templar rerolls in conjunction with beam spam in cyrodiil should be telling to you. These things dont change overnight - but theyre going to change.

Any templars coming here boldly stating theres nothing wrong with beam and its current overuse in cyro right now is a result of self delusion or inexperience.

That last word is funny. "Inexperience?"

To the best if my knowledge you have never played templar and yet you are in here advocating for nerfs.

The people in this game.

Ive played stamplar and magplar. Fortunately, for the beam issue this patch - you dont have to play templar for 2 years every day.

Let me know where you disagree with the points made. Apparently, this isnt a nerf from fellow templar advocates. Its a bug fix.

Zheg wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

ffs....I am not going to support any change to Radiant other than a slight decrease in range. A decrease in range to make it equal to gap closers such as Crit Charge, etc. And if you make it shorter, then make it instant and not a channel.

Honestly, it really is a l2p thing. There are so many things you can do to avoid Radiant. And the only thing Stam users have complained about is not being able to interrupt it with gap closers. So fine. Get that wish and bugger off.

Again, if you are dying to skills in outnumbered fights, then build better or drag those people out and make the fight smaller.

Already is instant.

No, it isn't. It's a channel. But please, please make it completely instant. Would love the mobility.

So that one tick for 12k instantly after casting (if crit) is only part of the damage this ability has? Needsca nerf then.

Or maybe, just maybe, you have no idea wtf you're talking about.

What is a 12k tick for someone with only 2.5 k health left?

Imagine, if you can, at the end of the beam you're shooting from 40 meters away a stam user spamming execute. The first 2 execute hits happen within 1 second. The damage isnt spread out over the duration genius. It ticks execute damage constantly. If you actually use the execute ability in execute range or even about 10% higher it is instant death. So @ 30k health thats 8.2k remaining health and you're dead in 1 second.

Now ill share something you should know, but are to "intelligent" to know. Sit in stealth and wait for someone at a resource. When someone rolls up cast dark flare, javelin, then RD. Ive watched this combo, and slight varients of it, completely destroy. Its almost more burst then a NB can put out. You cant recover because RD ticks hard and you really cant do anything to break the beam in time.

This is toxic gameplay, as much as spamming RD from the back of a zerg hoping another player connects with your target because they already have someone spamming execute on them.

Im smh. Instant 12k ticks? What are you on. Youre talking like it does that damage regularly. The only time youll see that is a crit at super low hp, at which point sorc execute, impale, executioner all do the same thing. You either dont know what youre talking about or are purposefully exaggerating because you think you wont be called out on it. I have never seen someone complain about a magplar stealth damage. How is that any more toxic than a nb gank? Other than being less damage and easier to counter. Please.

I could hold your hand and try to explain it so you can understand, but i dont think you can grasp basic concepts of "fair play" and "balance" so i would be wasting my time.

Your long winded rebuttals do hide tidbits of actual information other people, you know, the ones who grasp basic concepts, are saying so please keep it under 5000 words. Kthx

Zheg wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

ffs....I am not going to support any change to Radiant other than a slight decrease in range. A decrease in range to make it equal to gap closers such as Crit Charge, etc. And if you make it shorter, then make it instant and not a channel.

Honestly, it really is a l2p thing. There are so many things you can do to avoid Radiant. And the only thing Stam users have complained about is not being able to interrupt it with gap closers. So fine. Get that wish and bugger off.

Again, if you are dying to skills in outnumbered fights, then build better or drag those people out and make the fight smaller.

Already is instant.

No, it isn't. It's a channel. But please, please make it completely instant. Would love the mobility.

So that one tick for 12k instantly after casting (if crit) is only part of the damage this ability has? Needsca nerf then.

Or maybe, just maybe, you have no idea wtf you're talking about.

What is a 12k tick for someone with only 2.5 k health left?

Imagine, if you can, at the end of the beam you're shooting from 40 meters away a stam user spamming execute. The first 2 execute hits happen within 1 second. The damage isnt spread out over the duration genius. It ticks execute damage constantly. If you actually use the execute ability in execute range or even about 10% higher it is instant death. So @ 30k health thats 8.2k remaining health and you're dead in 1 second.

Now ill share something you should know, but are to "intelligent" to know. Sit in stealth and wait for someone at a resource. When someone rolls up cast dark flare, javelin, then RD. Ive watched this combo, and slight varients of it, completely destroy. Its almost more burst then a NB can put out. You cant recover because RD ticks hard and you really cant do anything to break the beam in time.

This is toxic gameplay, as much as spamming RD from the back of a zerg hoping another player connects with your target because they already have someone spamming execute on them.

Im smh. Instant 12k ticks? What are you on. Youre talking like it does that damage regularly. The only time youll see that is a crit at super low hp, at which point sorc execute, impale, executioner all do the same thing. You either dont know what youre talking about or are purposefully exaggerating because you think you wont be called out on it. I have never seen someone complain about a magplar stealth damage. How is that any more toxic than a nb gank? Other than being less damage and easier to counter. Please.

I could hold your hand and try to explain it so you can understand, but i dont think you can grasp basic concepts of "fair play" and "balance" so i would be wasting my time.

Your long winded rebuttals do hide tidbits of actual information other people, you know, the ones who grasp basic concepts, are saying so please keep it under 5000 words. Kthx

You are no where near my level when it comes to sarcasm and capability of being condescending, youre going to need to step up your game if you want to go there.

Everything i said in the posted you replied to was correct. You didnt argue because you know its true. Instead you shifted gears because you dont like it when people point out your hyperbole. Dont make ridiculous comments and you wont have to worry about people pointing out how ridiculous they are.

I quit arguing because your reading comprehension sucks and i dont argue with "special" people.


And if you look up, no where near your level of sarcasm, is my level.

How to raid the Templar laser house:

Step 1: Stand outside of the Templar laser house.
Step 2: Fire Venom coated arrows into the Templar laser house until the Templar and Family are dead.
Step 3: Liberate the Templar laser house of All Possessions.

So, I read post after post of player's experiences with RD and without naming names as to avoid hackles being raised and the sort, this is what I keep seeing... "I attacked a group of three to five other players and killed most of them except the templar(s) that was/were able to kill me after I killed the other two+ players, we should nerf templars."

Or

"While I was being attacked by several other players, I died and there was an RD or two on my damage log amongst all the damage I received while outnumbered. Lets nerf templars..."

Not one person has complained about a 1v1 experience. News flash! You probably should be getting owned when outnumbered. Doesn't matter by who..

And as far as this 40m BS is concerned, which I keep seeing posted. The range is 28m, which is equal to or less than other existing ranged skills. The range buff in cyro is irrelevant as all ranged skills get this, including the significantly higher ranged bow skills, which do as much or more damage. "Ya but i can dodge those." Not any more or less effectively than any other skill. You don't get that opportunity when attacked from stealth, and you don't get much of an audible cue in the grand cacophonous mess that is ZvZ pvp in this game.

If any ranged skill is cast while in range it will continue to function as if still in range even if you've moved outside of range until the next range check of that ability, that's all ranged abilities. Just because you don't have a huge white graphic line pasted between you and your target doesn't mean your ranged skill acts any differently.

But, but,... it's an execute!!!

Ya... So...?

It doesn't start to act like one till it's at the same threshold as other executes, yoy dont get killed with the next tick because you hit 50%. You don't see 10k RD ticks until, as a previous many have posted, you have 2k hp left.

This is what I've never understood about execute mechanics. On a boss 25% makes sense, I can get a lot of damage off on a boss that's in the multiple 100k hp range, but on a player executes hit for an excessive amount more than what the player has left in hp.

Why? What difference does it make if you're hit with an execute or a 10k frag, or a 6k heavy attack or anything else when you have 2k, or 5k hp. It all get the same job done... you ded. A 10k RD is irrelevant on a player with less than 10k hp left. You're dead regardless of what the next attack is.

And as far as the "kill blow" math geniuses out there, as a templar I would expect to see RD at the top of that list, it doesn't mean you gunned a player down from full health, it means you used your execute to uuhh... execute someone. Job well done. It's top of my list too, with jabs a near second. For all those wondering, that's the templar melee range spam attack. M-e-l-e-e.

There's nothing wrong with RD as it sits, the range is fine, the level of damage is fine, it's ridiculously easy to out heal, or interrupt, or in the case of the "full range" casters, take two steps out of the range. Huzzah! No more RD spam. If you die from full health due to RD spam, that's on you son.

If you die to RD while 1vX'ing and you killed 1 or more of the X's, but died anyway, sorry mate, crying OP doesn't hold weight. Especially if you got kills. Maybe for a select few the idea of dying to superior numbers is unfathomable, but for the rest of us that shouldn't be a shocker regardleaa of what skills were used.

What it comes down to is people dont like rd spam. Ya, I understand that, but its no different than anything else. I dont like dodge roll spammers. I don't like seeing a stam sorc using silver leash to get on keep walls like I watched happen with one single player in 4 seperate occurances yesterday between losing bleakers and ash. It's a recognized exploit and is stated as such by zos, yet people keep doing it, including some that have posted here. I don't care for a much of the mechanics in this game, that doesn't mean they're broken, it just means I don't like 'em.

Personally I feel it's bad form to complain about someone elses skills if you use known game mechanic exploits. I couldn't care less if zos decides this is a feature and they leave it in, but they haven't, they've clearly stated it's an exploit.

So any and all that use this mechanic and are here complaining about RD, sit your ass down...

There's a lot more to address than a few players butt hurt about having a counter to their build.

RD does not need to be changed at all. There's nothing wrong with it, it doesn't perform any better or worse that a lot of other skills in the game and comes with sufficient risk of use to warrant it having decent returns.

I know right, cloak is a mess. I do hope that they fix that and don't mess up other stuff.

Darnathian wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Van_0S wrote: »

@Zheg, @Joy_Division
Don't waste your time with KenaPKK , he's just a troller!Just ignore him.


The solution that fengrush has given, is bad for pve players . Also,reducing the range is laughable in this thread, like 5-10 meters??
What you guys think, its an AoE damage like steel turnado or single instant execute that can be weaved like executioner/impale/killers blade?

RD is a channel ability and the caster become vulnerable when he uses that spell.
Just think for sec, if I cast RD at 5meters, when I am fighting 2 players. One of them will block my RD and dodgeroll or interrupt me , but the other player will nuke me.

So, what happens with this skill, when the range is nerfed, you can't escape from battle because a templar has no mobility, even his defence that is blazing shield is worthless, also once RD is casted on a player, that player can see this opportunity to use his famous gap closer on him because the caster can't do any thing at that particular moment when he is casting that channel ability.

Wait - how or why is this bad for PvErs? Why would I specifically detail solutions in those posts with phrases like 'so it doesnt impact PVE negatively' only to have you come say my solution is bad for PVE?

Zheg, and Joy_Division both agreed on this point being unfair.


I think this is where the skill balance starts at. Honestly - its really for your benefit templars. This skill will get nerfed worse if you dont try to get on board with some sort of fix. The amount of templar rerolls in conjunction with beam spam in cyrodiil should be telling to you. These things dont change overnight - but theyre going to change.

Any templars coming here boldly stating theres nothing wrong with beam and its current overuse in cyro right now is a result of self delusion or inexperience.

That last word is funny. "Inexperience?"

To the best if my knowledge you have never played templar and yet you are in here advocating for nerfs.

The people in this game.

In this case you dont have to play a templar, you have to fight against them to get the current Cyro meta experience. ESO looks like more to Star Wars with these laser beams.

I dont think @Darnathian is here to actually discuss the issue. Last post made before making irrelevant class point at me is saying "if were nerfing beam lets nerf ambush spam". Great additions to the conversation - couldnt have added that gem unless he was a templar main though.

There is nothing to discuss that hasnt been stated in the million other threads. Most have admitted balancing is centered towards one on one. which is extremely important if/when BGs come out.

And yes uf sitting back at 40 meters is a problem for stamblades then spambush is a problem for Magplars or Mag Dks as they have no mobility.

There are so many ranged abilities that if spammed in group play from the rear will equal dead. But please, lets nerf one skill.

My main was a Mag DK. And threads like these is why its a dead class. But please continue.

What else is there to say? Zheg and others have already smoked all u.

Ive only called for one change. Zheg agreed with it. How did I get smoked? You managed to make another post and not actually contribute to the issue or suggestions.

With respect to your point that all skills are balanced for 1:1 - thats completely false. They actually arent. Barrier wasnt rebalanced for 1:1 - its a skill that is most relevant in group play. Same for purge, and rapids, and so on. Their effect in XvX combat is the same as beam, and should be treated as such.

BGs wont be 1:1 by the way. Dueling is 1:1.


You were a mag DK werent you? The same one that complained about my stam sorc trashing you 1:1 when stam sorc was pretty much at its lowest point. Ill be sure to take your points under serious consideration, especially with respect to whos being smoked around here.