UPDATE: Zenimax official statment of gap closers being an exploit in here

Nifty2g · July 2016

HeroOfNone wrote: »

I skipped the TOS, is it OK for me to use cheat engine? I mean I didn't read it and ZOS hasn't blocked it so it's ok right?

When did I say it's okay? Don't come in here with such non sense trying to be funny
Might want to remove the program name from your post too

MoreDino · July 2016

Outer_Rim wrote: »

[] might need to delete those VOD's fast before someone records them and sends them in the audio of [] asking if they going to "use the grappling hooks" is just PRICELESS.

I did find it funny that a few of those defending the exploit in this topic are incriminated in even just the most recent broadcast.

Nifty2g · July 2016

Grunim wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Grunim wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolmens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.

If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.

Thank you!

But what happens if a new player not familiar with eso or a player who doesn't use forums walks into cyrodill all happy like and then happens to get onto a jeep but gets mass reported

Said player probably won't be happy about that, cause he or she might think it's just an added mechanic. I'm sure this happens quite a lot or is going to happen from now on

This is the worst case scenario, but a new player having used a gap closer in PvE and not flown around the world would use it in PvP and be like hmm thats strange.

Then ask, hey is this legit?

Then people say, nah, its bugged, don't do it.

Then they don't do it.

They don't get emperor and then troll kill hundreds of people inside a keep.

These are not the same

Judging from all the posts in here and what was even said "cheating is cheating"
I'd say yes they are the same

This is why personal with this sort of bug I don't think zos should start banning for it, because some people are doing it unintentionally

Also no one uses gap closers in pve, and when you think about it logically dragon leaping into a keep sounds like a mechanic and so does teleport strike onto a keep sounds like a mechanic.

I'm all for sorting exploits out but with one like this there's going to be a lot of innocents banned

Then the goal should be to inform. If they are reported and shown to have gapped into a keep, they get a message saying that is exploitative behavior.

If they continue, ignorance is not viable.

A message where, in game a lot of players turn zone chat off or chat off completely might even be playing offline

An email? Could have also used an old email when signing up

I'm just giving you real scenarios that will happen or excuses people will make use of and why announcing it as an exploit is a bad idea, the witch hunt is now on

Alright, how about an in-game mail or an in-game notification message advising the player to desist from the exploitative behavior? There comes a point where individuals need to be held accountable for their actions.

They don't have game masters so I don't think in game mail would happen or anything related to that
I could be wrong though

Some players, myself included, have received an in-game mail message from a GM. They do have the capability to do this.

I too have spoken with one and gotten mail
They don't exist anymore to my knowledge

kevlarto_ESO · July 2016

In every mmo I have ever played, using a broken game mechanic for gain is an exploit, and you could get suspended for a few days, running a third party program like cheat engine is cheating and should be a perma ban offense. Jessica has pointed out that it is not intended so there for using it knowingly you are exploiting.

In most games companies take exploiting and cheating very serious and nip that crap in the bud, they know letting something like this go on is bad for the reputation of the company, and it starts to hit them in wallet as players leave and the power of word of mouth advertising starts to spread, it is hard to support a game monetarily letting this kind of stuff continue and run rampant in the game.

Cazzy · July 2016

Is gap closing on keep walls considered an exploit? My thread was closed before I got an answer...

yodased · July 2016

Cazzy wrote: »

Is gap closing on keep walls considered an exploit? My thread was closed before I got an answer...

Yes, 100%

Grunim · July 2016

Cazzy wrote: »

Is gap closing on keep walls considered an exploit? My thread was closed before I got an answer...

Yes, please see the official answer in message #168 of this thread. You can also view it through today's Dev Tracker responses.

DKsUnite · July 2016

the way i see it is, ZOS was specifically told and shown how broken gap closers were and the problems that would come from it. What did they do? They continued with them anyways and now you have this.

This is why i dont blame the players using it because ZOS was given well before time the info on why you shouldnt implement it but yet they didnt listen. Same thing with the cheat engine thing, ZOS was told at the beginning of the game that it works and you need to fix it yet they didnt do anything about it so again i dont blame the players, i blame their lack of listening and heeding advice from the people that test this piece of *** for you....

Kartalin · July 2016

Thanks @yodased for getting the ball actually rolling on this.

Thrasher91604 · July 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolmens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.

If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.

Thank you!

That does't work. When I report someone for cheating, all I get is an automated form response saying I should put the player on ignore. Really unhelpful and a waste of time.

zyk · July 2016

DKsUnite wrote: »

This is why i dont blame the players using it because ZOS was given well before time the info on why you shouldnt implement it but yet they didnt listen. Same thing with the cheat engine thing, ZOS was told at the beginning of the game that it works and you need to fix it yet they didnt do anything about it so again i dont blame the players, i blame their lack of listening and heeding advice from the people that test this piece of *** for you....

You don't blame players for memory hacking? Gah. Memory hacking is a clear red line for any self-respecting online gamer.

All other factors aside, cheating is wrong because it is unfair to other players. I ultimately blame ZOS, but that is no excuse to grief and abuse other people by breaking the rules to gain unfair advantages. This is an extremely antisocial thing to do.

I personally don't care if the odd player yolos up a wall during a siege. I enjoy those fights. But if this tactic became widespread among organized groups, it would be extremely harmful to a core gameplay element.

The truth is that the people who regularly exploit do not do it force change. They do it because they can get away with it and don't give a s**t about other players. They are probably psychopaths.

Cazzy · July 2016

Just keep doing it. Report over and over again. Rubber band that poop. (I'm annoyed today

)

Jules · July 2016

Vyshan wrote: »

It's PvP. Not a significant part of the game. Dev resources are better spent elsewhere, fixing things that actually matter.

He says, in an alliance war thread...

Animal_Mother · July 2016

Zheg wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

**** just got real . This is why I encouraged people not to exploit even if everyone else is . Since a large portion of people are probably guilty and probably on someone's Livestream or video soon to be released , best to stop posting to everyone how fun it is and how "you think" it's ok . Man , I told you kids ...

ESO pvp cannot afford the population loss if they banned everyone doing this. Inaction on bypassing walls/doors to get into keeps and outposts has been present since launch. If it was a big deal zos would have given temporary bans the last few iterations.

Look at the CE consequences for a far more vicious form of exploiting. Players will continue doing it until ZOS patches.

You might get some of us back.

I haven't done pvp in nearly a year due to the exploits and cheats. I kind of miss it.

phairdon · July 2016

Jules wrote: »

Vyshan wrote: »

It's PvP. Not a significant part of the game. Dev resources are better spent elsewhere, fixing things that actually matter.

He says, in an alliance war thread...

Considering the numbers playing the alliance war, yeah....not quite an accurate statement from Vyshan.

GreatWhite000 · July 2016

To @rfennell_ESO: @Azurethe was banned the first time because he was standing next to someone that was cheating and was not attacking said cheater, so people in zone chat got mad at him for it. Azurethe's not a cheater, and regarding this thread he is merely making use of the game's mechanics, as many people have. It is ultimately ZOS's fault for not fixing something that has been in game for month(s?) now. Yes, it is annoying when people gap-close into keeps, but DKs and NBs have been doing it with chains/teleport strike for ages now and we have all learned to deal with it. This thread has an insane amount of QQing.

Thrasher91604 · July 2016

Easy fix. Don't allow ANY gap closers to change elevation more than a few meters. Simple. Or at least should be.

Hell, steak doesn't allow you change elevation at all. It's only horizontal.

Curragraigue · July 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolmens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.

If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.

Thank you!

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom we were told back pre 1.6 on PC that the extended range DK leap was intended to be able to gap close from the outer towers to the inner wall breach or no breach of the inner wall I assume this has not changed and you just mean all other uses of gap closers to scale walls are exploits is that right?

XILoKoIX · July 2016

Azureth is practically a pocket healer, I was back to the game for just a few days before being able to melt him away.

You and braidas are trash, I can't wait until you have to fight fairly, AD will stomp you.

rfennell_ESO · July 2016

GreatWhite000 wrote: »

To @rfennell_ESO: @Azurethe was banned the first time because he was standing next to someone that was cheating and was not attacking said cheater, so people in zone chat got mad at him for it. Azurethe's not a cheater, and regarding this thread he is merely making use of the game's mechanics, as many people have. It is ultimately ZOS's fault for not fixing something that has been in game for month(s?) now. Yes, it is annoying when people gap-close into keeps, but DKs and NBs have been doing it with chains/teleport strike for ages now and we have all learned to deal with it. This thread has an insane amount of QQing.

So your guild leader isn't guilty? You don't say...

Excuse the skepticism, but how would you know if you don't fight him?

Cazzy · July 2016

"It's other peoples fault I/they use exploits."

Try and apply that logic in everyday life and you won't get far

Icarus42 · July 2016

All i know is that on saturday July 3rd at Chalman in Haderus was the worst abuse of this "exploit" I have ever seen. I have been playing since beta, and I have never posted before. I created an account just for this.
I witnessed more than a dozen DC use this gap closing "technique" to get inside our keep. They were not even trying to siege. We come to find out it was one of our own guys on EP who was letting them do it!!
I really do love this game and have a blast in pvp, BUT this, this "exploit" or whatever semantics that you want use, cheapens this game in my eyes.
Add a faction ban for offenders, fix or add legit wall scaling into the game, but something needs to be done about it, or everyone is going to start doing it.

Yours truly, Inkleburt

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · July 2016

Curragraigue wrote: »

We were told back pre 1.6 on PC that the extended range DK leap was intended to be able to gap close from the outer towers to the inner wall breach or no breach of the inner wall I assume this has not changed and you just mean all other uses of gap closers to scale walls are exploits is that right?

We'll get clarification from both our Dev and Terms of Service teams about this specific example and let you know.

Recremen · July 2016

HeroOfNone wrote: »

I skipped the TOS, is it OK for me to use cheat engine? I mean I didn't read it and ZOS hasn't blocked it so it's ok right?

@HeroOfNone

It's not OK to not read the ToS and follow them, but it's perfectly reasonable for someone to have not seen an obscure thread on the official forums where someone mentioned that something is considered an exploit. Have you read the ToS lately? It doesn't mention specific game mechanics anywhere, it has a bunch of vague things like "don't use third-party programs to cheat or exploit". That's specific enough to know not to use cheat engines, but it's not going to tell you that the normal use of your abilities is suddenly considered an exploit in specific contexts due to differences between keep capture mechanics and ability designs.

Cazzy · July 2016

GreatWhite000 wrote: »

To @rfennell_ESO: @Azurethe was banned the first time because he was standing next to someone that was cheating and was not attacking said cheater, so people in zone chat got mad at him for it. Azurethe's not a cheater, and regarding this thread he is merely making use of the game's mechanics, as many people have. It is ultimately ZOS's fault for not fixing something that has been in game for month(s?) now. Yes, it is annoying when people gap-close into keeps, but DKs and NBs have been doing it with chains/teleport strike for ages now and we have all learned to deal with it. This thread has an insane amount of QQing.

He's been banned from the forum now so I don't know if he can read tags?

Recremen · July 2016

Curragraigue wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolmens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.

If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.

Thank you!

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom we were told back pre 1.6 on PC that the extended range DK leap was intended to be able to gap close from the outer towers to the inner wall breach or no breach of the inner wall I assume this has not changed and you just mean all other uses of gap closers to scale walls are exploits is that right?

@Curragraigue

Got a source on that? I used to do that before reading a random forum thread and finding out it might be an exploit, and I'd really like to know definitively so I can either keep not doing it and hope keep designs change to make it impossible, or go back to doing it because it's no longer a grey area.

Lord-Stien · July 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolmens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.

If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.

Thank you!

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Not to also throw rocks on your parade but, ( Pick's up rocks).

The fact of the matter is that.
1. How long have we let stuff go on like this?
People have been using abilities to do unintended stuff in PVP and PVE for the longest time...
2. It takes a massive crap storm to appear on the forums to get any response from you and or your co workers..
3. If someone is using abilities that they know that has unintended reactions... no more 3 day banns... PERMA banns.. stop messing around.
4. Look at Blizzard and other such Dev Company s... they have a no bull sh!t policy on cheating and or exploiting..
5. Now we have people who use these abilities to have a unfair advantage on the other players. and claim that is is a L2P issues when in fact it is a ( hey yes this is glitchy, you better not use it in a bad way .. or permma bann)

IT IS TIME FOR THE SECOND BANN WAVE.

Curragraigue · July 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

We were told back pre 1.6 on PC that the extended range DK leap was intended to be able to gap close from the outer towers to the inner wall breach or no breach of the inner wall I assume this has not changed and you just mean all other uses of gap closers to scale walls are exploits is that right?

We'll get clarification from both our Dev and Terms of Service teams about this specific example and let you know.

Thank you.

Recremen wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolmens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.

If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.

Thank you!

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom we were told back pre 1.6 on PC that the extended range DK leap was intended to be able to gap close from the outer towers to the inner wall breach or no breach of the inner wall I assume this has not changed and you just mean all other uses of gap closers to scale walls are exploits is that right?

@Curragraigue

Got a source on that? I used to do that before reading a random forum thread and finding out it might be an exploit, and I'd really like to know definitively so I can either keep not doing it and hope keep designs change to make it impossible, or go back to doing it because it's no longer a grey area.

Nope sorry. I just remember ZOS saying it was a part of the choice between the DK leaps back then. I thought it was a strange decision at the time which is why it stuck in my mind.

KingMagaw · July 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

We were told back pre 1.6 on PC that the extended range DK leap was intended to be able to gap close from the outer towers to the inner wall breach or no breach of the inner wall I assume this has not changed and you just mean all other uses of gap closers to scale walls are exploits is that right?

We'll get clarification from both our Dev and Terms of Service teams about this specific example and let you know.

How long has this been going on and your looking into it now?. Tells me everything i need to know.

Gap closing through walls or defeating any mechanic in the way to siege a keep/castle is an exploit, was said as much by Zo$.

People continually doing it must mean its ok because if it was against rules or terms, something would have been done. Zo$ continual inaction on these exploits just fuels more too do them.

If anything, you squander 10 mins into documenting and reporting the issue and the player MAY get a TEMP ban, or a perma ban but both are the same to Zo$. Players will simply claim i don't use the forums how was i supposed to know and they will get away with it no doubt.

Issue has been going on forever, no news article on launcher updating about this, dont see how someone who doesnt use forums would know this change of heart from Zo$

Bazeric · July 2016

To sum things up here for those who showed up late to this thread (like myself) tl:dr :

ZOS confirmed gap closing keep walls is unintended and officially an exploit.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolmens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.

If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.

Thank you!

A rather gleeful, "yeppers," but veiled witch hunt began.

Much mud was slung.

#torchandpitchfork #burnthewitch / #gitgud #l2p

_____

And as an aside I'd like to add that this behaviour has been going on longer than this weekend and that, as always, every faction has guilty parties of this behaviour. The sooner an actual fix is made to the skills to curb this behaviour, the sooner the witchunt will end and in-game PVP will be better than forum PVP.