UPDATE: Zenimax official statment of gap closers being an exploit in here

rfennell_ESO

Azurethe wrote: »

Have a laugh? I was Role Playing

If you had read what I said earlier, I said now that I got a response from ZOS that it is 100% officially labeled an exploit, I will cease all actions with it

Were you role playing a sociopath?

It's 100% officially labeled an exploit, which you have admitted to over and over and over again for good measure.

The prosecution rests.

Pomaikai

yodased wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolomens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.

If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.

Thank you!

/dies

Yeah, but they actually have to follow through, and we all know their track record there.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Grao wrote: »

What we need now, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , is to hear from you. What is Zenimax doing about this self professed cheater? If you don't answer very clearly, we will have to assume nothing is being done.

We hear you, and others who have tagged us asking about this specific scenario. We're sending this over to our Terms of Service team to investigate. They are ultimately in charge of investigating and handling any situations where players are reporting (or admitting to) Terms of Service violations. That's the most we can say, though. We don't comment on disciplinary actions taken on other players, as it's a violation of our legally-binding Privacy Policy.

@yodased also had a great idea to create an official "Cyrodiil rules of engagement" post that clearly defines what we consider exploiting and a violation of our Terms of Service, and what we don't. We'll work on creating that over the next couple days.

Pomaikai

Azurethe wrote: »

Have a laugh? I was Role Playing

If you had read what I said earlier, I said now that I got a response from ZOS that it is 100% officially labeled an exploit, I will cease all actions with it

That's not enough quite frankly. We want the two if you gone from the game, permanently.

rfennell_ESO

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

What we need now, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , is to hear from you. What is Zenimax doing about this self professed cheater? If you don't answer very clearly, we will have to assume nothing is being done.

We hear you, and others who have tagged us asking about this specific scenario. We're sending this over to our Terms of Service team to investigate. They are ultimately in charge of investigating and handling any situations where players are reporting (or admitting to) Terms of Service violations. That's the most we can say, though. We don't comment on disciplinary actions taken on other players, as it's a violation of our legally-binding Privacy Policy.

@yodased also had a great idea to create an official "Cyrodiil rules of engagement" post that clearly defines what we consider exploiting and a violation of our Terms of Service, and what we don't. We'll work on creating that over the next couple days.

ok, well can you send the following to your terms of service team to investigate?

This is admission of the OP's claims:

Azurethe wrote: »

I have been deemed a pocket healer



Im so proud

This is an admission that he is aware that it's wrong and how they are doing it because ZOS broke it"

Azurethe wrote: »

But I mean, its like, I look at the ground and there are like 30-40 AD dead, and I think like, this is pretty sad


Then I look at my AP per hour and it shows 160K and then I feel better about myself


Its wrong ofc, and its our issue, but its also ZOS' for breaking something so important to the game's structure

This is just more admission of guilt.

Azurethe wrote: »

We did not use any friends to gap close in, all were idiots just standing on the edge over and over and over and over again

This is just a big lol, considering he just admitted it 3 times.

Azurethe wrote: »

Where is thy proof that we did anything?

(Video? pls)

This is just another admission of guilt.

Azurethe wrote: »

I know now from ZOS this is what they consider an exploit that they put in even when they knew about it coming into the patch, I will refrain from using it again

Last part is the most amusing, it's like OJ saying "now that I know it's illegal to stab people repeatedly until they are dead... I will refrain from doing so again".

Grao

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

What we need now, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , is to hear from you. What is Zenimax doing about this self professed cheater? If you don't answer very clearly, we will have to assume nothing is being done.

We hear you, and others who have tagged us asking about this specific scenario. We're sending this over to our Terms of Service team to investigate. They are ultimately in charge of investigating and handling any situations where players are reporting (or admitting to) Terms of Service violations. That's the most we can say, though. We don't comment on disciplinary actions taken on other players, as it's a violation of our legally-binding Privacy Policy.

@yodased also had a great idea to create an official "Cyrodiil rules of engagement" post that clearly defines what we consider exploiting and a violation of our Terms of Service, and what we don't. We'll work on creating that over the next couple days.

So even though he violated your TOS and even came to the forums to openly admit to doing it, we still don't get to hear what measures Zenimax is taking in this matter? I am not a layer, but if I am not mistaking legally binding is invalidated when one of the parties involved knowingly violates said legal agreements.

Meanwhile the guy is free to laugh away and we are kept in the dark. Ok.

EDIT: I know it is not up to you @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , unfortunately you are the only one we can communicate our profound dissatisfaction with this standard response and how much this helps erode any confidence we have on ZOS.

Zheg

The best way to handle this is to follow him around spamming heals on the pugs he tries to kill. The rage would be phenomenal.

caeliusstarbreaker

This is honestly the only time that gap closers work reliably

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

ok, well can you send the following to your terms of service team to investigate?

[snip]

Yeppers, just did.

Pomaikai

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

ok, well can you send the following to your terms of service team to investigate?

[snip]

Yeppers, just did.

Why did it take you 5 hours to send this to the appropriate team?

Satiar

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

ok, well can you send the following to your terms of service team to investigate?

[snip]

Yeppers, just did.

Thank you.

yodased

Pomaikai wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

ok, well can you send the following to your terms of service team to investigate?

[snip]

Yeppers, just did.

Why did it take you 5 hours to send this to the appropriate team?

Hey now don't get testy, she is doing a job like the rest of us and this isn't the only post. Be happy that you have a clear answer to a question we all have been asking for months.

I for one am just happy they took a stand on something

Orchish

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolmens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.

If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.

Thank you!

Fixing gap closers to work normally in open fields again should be a priority. Most people who gap close up onto keep walls don't even attempt to take keeps they just fight some of the people and die like the good old days when DKs were able to leap onto walls.

A couple patches ago something was changed to "fix" gap closers and it completely broke them. They don't even work on the smallest of inclines in the open fields of cyrodiil yet they allow you to charge up over entire walls.

Papa_Hunt

Orchish wrote: »

Fixing gap closers to work normally in open fields again should be a priority...They don't even work on the smallest of inclines...

^^^THIS^^^ I get they need to fix the exploits, but gap closers plain suck in PvP now.

WillhelmBlack

Pomaikai wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

ok, well can you send the following to your terms of service team to investigate?

[snip]

Yeppers, just did.

Why did it take you 5 hours to send this to the appropriate team?

What an idiotic thing to say. Do you think this is her only job? Relaying information to the TOS team?

Grao

yodased wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

ok, well can you send the following to your terms of service team to investigate?

[snip]

Yeppers, just did.

Why did it take you 5 hours to send this to the appropriate team?

Hey now don't get testy, she is doing a job like the rest of us and this isn't the only post. Be happy that you have a clear answer to a question we all have been asking for months.

I for one am just happy they took a stand on something

I only wish we actually knew if the person cheating actually got penalized somehow. Otherwise it is pretty much more of the same, Zenimax saying that using exploits is against the TOS and that it can be a ban worthy offense, which they have said before.

yodased

Grao wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

ok, well can you send the following to your terms of service team to investigate?

[snip]

Yeppers, just did.

Why did it take you 5 hours to send this to the appropriate team?

Hey now don't get testy, she is doing a job like the rest of us and this isn't the only post. Be happy that you have a clear answer to a question we all have been asking for months.

I for one am just happy they took a stand on something

I only wish we actually knew if the person cheating actually got penalized somehow. Otherwise it is pretty much more of the same, Zenimax saying that using exploits is against the TOS and that it can be a ban worthy offense, which they have said before.

The point is there is going to be eventually in-game instructions on what is and what is not allowed. That will be an epic thing I believe.

Somewhere to reference actual things that are agreed upon not to do. Without that, we have nothing but our morals and ideals.

Stratforge

You people calling for bans on this are sad. One tenet of game design should be that if you want to treat something as an exploit, it shouldn't be something that is so incredibly easy to do. And it's not just that it's functionally easy (so was the banker exploit and I have no problem with punishment for that one). It's the fact that nothing about it that would indicate to a player that it's not intended. It feels intended! As someone in another thread pointed out, any player could walk up to a keep wall, see that their gap closer is usable, and then boom ---> exploiter. What a joke. To know that it's an exploit someone has to literally come to the forums and find a thread explaining that it's against the rules.

yodased

Stratforge wrote: »

You people calling for bans on this are sad. One tenet of game design should be that if you want to treat something as an exploit, it shouldn't be something that is so incredibly easy to do. And it's not just that it's functionally easy (so was the banker exploit and I have no problem with punishment for that one). It's the fact that nothing about it that would indicate to a player that it's not intended. It feels intended! As someone in another thread pointed out, any player could walk up to a keep wall, see that their gap closer is usable, and then boom ---> exploiter. What a joke. To know that it's an exploit someone has to literally come to the forums and find a thread explaining that it's against the rules.

What you feel is sad is fine and I respect your decision, but a tenet of game design or not, bot the people this thread was sparked by were contacted by me telling them that if they didn't know Zenimax clearly pointed out gap closing into a keep was a bannable offense.

Both recognized that they understood it was, but didn't care.

They then proceeded to use this exploit to grief players for 30 minutes.

They both should have a vacation to think about using these skills again. Permanent ban is up to the choice of the developers, but pleading ignorance is not going to help here.

Pomaikai

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

ok, well can you send the following to your terms of service team to investigate?

[snip]

Yeppers, just did.

Why did it take you 5 hours to send this to the appropriate team?

What an idiotic thing to say. Do you think this is her only job? Relaying information to the TOS team?

Coming to terms with cheaters and exploiting in this game? Yep, job NUMERO UNO!

Rohamad_Ali

**** just got real . This is why I encouraged people not to exploit even if everyone else is . Since a large portion of people are probably guilty and probably on someone's Livestream or video soon to be released , best to stop posting to everyone how fun it is and how "you think" it's ok . Man , I told you kids ...

UltimaJoe777

Grao wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

What we need now, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , is to hear from you. What is Zenimax doing about this self professed cheater? If you don't answer very clearly, we will have to assume nothing is being done.

We hear you, and others who have tagged us asking about this specific scenario. We're sending this over to our Terms of Service team to investigate. They are ultimately in charge of investigating and handling any situations where players are reporting (or admitting to) Terms of Service violations. That's the most we can say, though. We don't comment on disciplinary actions taken on other players, as it's a violation of our legally-binding Privacy Policy.

@yodased also had a great idea to create an official "Cyrodiil rules of engagement" post that clearly defines what we consider exploiting and a violation of our Terms of Service, and what we don't. We'll work on creating that over the next couple days.

So even though he violated your TOS and even came to the forums to openly admit to doing it, we still don't get to hear what measures Zenimax is taking in this matter? I am not a layer, but if I am not mistaking legally binding is invalidated when one of the parties involved knowingly violates said legal agreements.

Meanwhile the guy is free to laugh away and we are kept in the dark. Ok.

EDIT: I know it is not up to you @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , unfortunately you are the only one we can communicate our profound dissatisfaction with this standard response and how much this helps erode any confidence we have on ZOS.

Every gaming company in history, hell every company in history PERIOD, regardless of what's up, is bound to client-protective privacy. Just because we feel it should be otherwise does not mean it can. If Zenimax starts violating their own policies because we want them to that just ruins their credibility and leaves them wide open to lawsuits.

Believe me, we all want to witness them execute these foul lamers straight into Oblivion, but there is nothing they or we can do to make that happen.

yodased

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

**** just got real . This is why I encouraged people not to exploit even if everyone else is . Since a large portion of people are probably guilty and probably on someone's Livestream or video soon to be released , best to stop posting to everyone how fun it is and how "you think" it's ok . Man , I told you kids ...

None of this would have even happened if people just had a little bit of self control

Zheg

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

**** just got real . This is why I encouraged people not to exploit even if everyone else is . Since a large portion of people are probably guilty and probably on someone's Livestream or video soon to be released , best to stop posting to everyone how fun it is and how "you think" it's ok . Man , I told you kids ...

ESO pvp cannot afford the population loss if they banned everyone doing this. Inaction on bypassing walls/doors to get into keeps and outposts has been present since launch. If it was a big deal zos would have given temporary bans the last few iterations.

Look at the CE consequences for a far more vicious form of exploiting. Players will continue doing it until ZOS patches.

Rohamad_Ali

Zheg wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

**** just got real . This is why I encouraged people not to exploit even if everyone else is . Since a large portion of people are probably guilty and probably on someone's Livestream or video soon to be released , best to stop posting to everyone how fun it is and how "you think" it's ok . Man , I told you kids ...

ESO pvp cannot afford the population loss if they banned everyone doing this. Inaction on bypassing walls/doors to get into keeps and outposts has been present since launch. If it was a big deal zos would have given temporary bans the last few iterations.

Look at the CE consequences for a far more vicious form of exploiting. Players will continue doing it until ZOS patches.

People will keep doing it until one or two people rage on the forums about being banned for it . A couple examples and word will get around . I don't suggest gambling with your account .

yodased

All it took was one person to bring it up in a civilized manner though and look at the response.

This has been bubbling for months, but it always devolves into personal attacks and l2p gitgud lolbots derailing it.

I mean look at the stats of this post alone on this forum, people are flocking to it because they need answers and want things fixed.

We just need to openly talk about these things, not sweep them under the rug and punish people for things they don't know about.

Be clear in your rules and even clearer in your punishment and we will all be better for it

Nifty2g

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolmens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.

If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.

Thank you!

But what happens if a new player not familiar with eso or a player who doesn't use forums walks into cyrodill all happy like and then happens to get onto a keep but gets mass reported

Said player probably won't be happy about that, cause he or she might think it's just an added mechanic. I'm sure this happens quite a lot or is going to happen from now on

yodased

Nifty2g wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolmens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.

If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.

Thank you!

But what happens if a new player not familiar with eso or a player who doesn't use forums walks into cyrodill all happy like and then happens to get onto a jeep but gets mass reported

Said player probably won't be happy about that, cause he or she might think it's just an added mechanic. I'm sure this happens quite a lot or is going to happen from now on

This is the worst case scenario, but a new player having used a gap closer in PvE and not flown around the world would use it in PvP and be like hmm thats strange.

Then ask, hey is this legit?

Then people say, nah, its bugged, don't do it.

Then they don't do it.

They don't get emperor and then troll kill hundreds of people inside a keep.

These are not the same

dashima

Unforunately ZOS permabans are nothing more than a scolding and a gentle slap on the wrist. How can you figure out the list of all the people that have exploited/gap-closed/spambushed/leaped into keeps anyway? I imagine it would be a very extensive list.

I think the real lesson here is that forum aggro 2 strong. We have just witnessed how not to behave on the forums and in front of developers after being called out. Anyway thanks for the heads up ZOS, guess this means I finally have an excuse to steal other people's sieges....

@Azurethe Publius might be offering RP lessons, I'm sure you would benefit from them greatly.

yodased

dashima wrote: »

I don't think that gap-closer exploit should merit any bans when this is on ZOS for not fixing this issue for..... idk, forever? How can you figure out the list of all the people that have exploited/gap-closed/spambushed/leaped into keeps anyway? I imagine it would be a very extensive list.

Not to mention ZOS permabans are nothing more than a scolding and a gentle slap on the wrist.

I think the real lesson here is that forum aggro 2 strong. We have just witnessed how not to behave on the forums and in front of developers after being called out. Anyway thanks for the heads up ZOS, guess this means I finally have an excuse to steal other people's sieges....

@Azurethe Publius might be offering RP lessons, I'm sure you would benefit from them greatly.

The real lesson is not to cheat